Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Well at least you finally admitted that you have no nor had no interest in a conversation or debate. You just wanted a soapbox* to listen to your own voice.
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soapbox
The cult of "Quranists" prophet SAW warned us about
- Thread starter Shimaz
- Start date
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soapbox
Shimaz
MPA (400+ posts)
Is that what you call in that cult, stuffing words in mouth as admission?
Don't be so desperate now. Relax.
You have no idea what actual interrogation is. Wait until you see it.
But if they turn away, [O Muhammad] - then only upon you is [responsibility for] clear notification.
Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
? Like I said look up the words self projection and irony
Projection | Definition, Theories, & Facts | Britannica
Projection, the mental process by which people attribute to others what is in their own minds. The concept was introduced to psychology by Sigmund Freud. In contemporary psychological science the term continues to have the meaning of seeing the self in the other.
www.britannica.com
Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Haha, riiiiight. Many a pipsqueak have come and gone, you weren't the first, you won't be the last.
Maybe someday someone from your side with show up who knows a thing or two. I can only hope. ?
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
He is just a waste of time. These people do not have anything to defend or debate with any logic or evidence. They just go around in circles, pretending to be geniuses when it comes to Islam. I have always countered them with the Quranic verses but, they are adamant about not paying any heed to them.
"And when it is said to them: `Follow what Allah has revealed!’ They say: `Nay! We will follow what we found our ancestors following.' What! Even Though their Ancestors were void of wisdom and guidance?" (2:170)
Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Aren't they all! The ones that make the most noise know the least
Yeah, just saw seven pages worth of that.
Common sense is not all that common.
like I said before if anyone really wants to be guided ALLAH surely will guide them, and if they want to remain blind and unguided then it's their own call
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
3:78 And among them are those who twist the Scripture with their tongues, that you may think it from the Scripture when it is not from the Scripture. And they say, 'It is from God,' when it is not from God. They tell lies and attribute them to God, knowingly
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
3:79 No person to whom God has given the Scripture and wisdom, and prophethood would ever say to the people, 'Be my worshipers rather than God's.' Rather, 'Be people of the Lord, according to the Scripture you teach, and the teachings you learn.'
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
8:22 The worst of creations in the Sight of Allah are those deaf, those dumb who do not use their intellect
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
69:40 Indeed, this ˹Quran˺ is the recitation of a noble Messenger.
69:41 It is not the prose of a poet ˹as you claim˺, ˹yet˺ you hardly have any faith.
69:42 Nor is it the mumbling of a fortune-teller, ˹yet˺ you are hardly mindful.
69:43 ˹It is˺ a revelation from the Lord of all worlds.
69:44 Had the Messenger made up something in Our Name,
69:45 We would have certainly seized him by his right hand,
69:46 then severed his aorta,
69:47 and none of you could have shielded him ˹from Us˺!
69:48 Indeed, this ˹Quran˺ is a reminder to those mindful ˹of Allah˺.
69:49 And We certainly know that some of you will persist in denial,
69:50 and it will surely be a source of regret for the disbelievers.
69:51 And indeed, this ˹Quran˺ is the absolute truth.
69:52 So glorify the Name of your Lord, the Greatest.
69:41 It is not the prose of a poet ˹as you claim˺, ˹yet˺ you hardly have any faith.
69:42 Nor is it the mumbling of a fortune-teller, ˹yet˺ you are hardly mindful.
69:43 ˹It is˺ a revelation from the Lord of all worlds.
69:44 Had the Messenger made up something in Our Name,
69:45 We would have certainly seized him by his right hand,
69:46 then severed his aorta,
69:47 and none of you could have shielded him ˹from Us˺!
69:48 Indeed, this ˹Quran˺ is a reminder to those mindful ˹of Allah˺.
69:49 And We certainly know that some of you will persist in denial,
69:50 and it will surely be a source of regret for the disbelievers.
69:51 And indeed, this ˹Quran˺ is the absolute truth.
69:52 So glorify the Name of your Lord, the Greatest.
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
17:73 They definitely ˹thought they˺ were about to lure you away from what We have revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺, hoping that you would attribute something else to Us falsely—and then they would have certainly taken you as a close friend.
17:74 Had We not made you steadfast, you probably would have inclined to them a little,
17:75 and then We truly would have made you taste double ˹punishment˺ both in this life and after death, and you would have found no helper against Us.
17:74 Had We not made you steadfast, you probably would have inclined to them a little,
17:75 and then We truly would have made you taste double ˹punishment˺ both in this life and after death, and you would have found no helper against Us.
Shimaz
MPA (400+ posts)
Awww. That should make yourself feel better. I hope.
Since you've drawn lines anyway, do also tell before leaving what side you are on because as of now i'm still struggling to understand the cult you're following here in name of Islam.
Shimaz
MPA (400+ posts)
Indeed. The ones who can't tell difference between man made vs man collected. It's all the same to those deaf dumb and blind.
Shimaz
MPA (400+ posts)
You are free to leave cult boy. No body is holding a gun to your head, if there is such a thing on you. The other one is whining why I'm interrogating his confused nonsensical beliefs that have nothing to do with Quran itself, and you've had a mental breakdown in middle of this thread already.
Pack up and leave before you make it any more filthy with your curses.
If we isolate a human child after birth from human civilisation that child will never know any human language let alone be able to understand any God revealed book. A clear proof that people educate people by way of interaction between themselves. Life experience is where from comes all our knowledge. So for anyone to claim human works are not reliable at all is absolutely wrong. This is why total rejection of hadis works or history work etc etc is not the right thing to do.
Of course, human works are not necessarily perfect because mankind are prone to making mistakes. This is why a criterion is absolutely necessary to see if any human work is reliable or not. This is why if we have a criterion that is good ie it works then thereby we can judge a human work for what it is worth.
Therefore no one should believe that all human works are 100% perfect or all human works are 100% crap. Both of these positions are not defendable.
People who argue over sources of islam they must learn or know some basics before arguing over islam.
No one can understand the quranic text without having learned subjects about which the quran talks. For example, the idea that if one knows arabic language then one can understand the quran needs to be understood properly. We can see arab kids speak arabic, do they understand the quran properly? No. Why not? Because children speak childish language. The quran is not revealed in childish language. It is revealed in a language that requires much higher level of thinking and understanding ability in people to understand it. So people who are not able to think at that level can never understand the quran till they get to that level of thinking and understanding of things.
This is why people need each other to explain to each other the explanations of each other because they are all not at the very same level of thinking and understanding of things.
So there is nothing wrong with the idea of trying to understand the quran with help of ahaadis or tafaseer etc etc. What matters is the end result ie has one understood the quran properly? How can one know for sure if one has understood the quran properly or not? The quran tells us very clearly that when it is understood properly then one will not find in that understanding any contradictions or conflicts either within the quranic statement or with respect to real world realities. If anyone has succeeded in this kind of understanding of the quranic text then one truly has got the right message from the quran otherwise not but one should keep on trying till one gets there.
Of course, human works are not necessarily perfect because mankind are prone to making mistakes. This is why a criterion is absolutely necessary to see if any human work is reliable or not. This is why if we have a criterion that is good ie it works then thereby we can judge a human work for what it is worth.
Therefore no one should believe that all human works are 100% perfect or all human works are 100% crap. Both of these positions are not defendable.
People who argue over sources of islam they must learn or know some basics before arguing over islam.
No one can understand the quranic text without having learned subjects about which the quran talks. For example, the idea that if one knows arabic language then one can understand the quran needs to be understood properly. We can see arab kids speak arabic, do they understand the quran properly? No. Why not? Because children speak childish language. The quran is not revealed in childish language. It is revealed in a language that requires much higher level of thinking and understanding ability in people to understand it. So people who are not able to think at that level can never understand the quran till they get to that level of thinking and understanding of things.
This is why people need each other to explain to each other the explanations of each other because they are all not at the very same level of thinking and understanding of things.
So there is nothing wrong with the idea of trying to understand the quran with help of ahaadis or tafaseer etc etc. What matters is the end result ie has one understood the quran properly? How can one know for sure if one has understood the quran properly or not? The quran tells us very clearly that when it is understood properly then one will not find in that understanding any contradictions or conflicts either within the quranic statement or with respect to real world realities. If anyone has succeeded in this kind of understanding of the quranic text then one truly has got the right message from the quran otherwise not but one should keep on trying till one gets there.
Shimaz
MPA (400+ posts)
True. I tried to explain this thing personally to these two Munikireen-e-hadith cultists here how Hadith works and questioning its authenticity is completely acceptable as long as one understands how Hadith was collected. I myself question a lot of Hadith for example from Kitab ul Fitn and others. To question hadith is perfectly fine but that's not their problem. The problem is these clowns here want us to believe in things like following
#1. All hadith and sunnah is 100% false. reject them without question fully blindly. To them there's no difference between apples and oranges.
#2. All hadith and sunnah was man made. The prophet never spoke a word in his life time so it's not even scientifically possible that his words or actions were memorized or recorded or passed down. It's all fake.
#3. All hadith were written down falsely with specific intent of of fabricating prophet's life.
#4. Basic concepts of Salah and Zakat etc are invalid because Quran does not cover them in detail and whatever it does is invalid.
#5. Man collected vs man made is same thing. So if i collect their nonsense in a book form it's same as me inventing it.
How do you reason with such nonsensical arguments? On top of that they're having mental breakdowns when you ask them questions about their invented beliefs because they're muniqireen e hadith as well as not Quranists as they want you to believe.
It's truly some other breed of apostates which i would have figured out eventually, but they started feeling interrogated in a police station and decided to stop answering about their beliefs.
That does not change the fact that rejecting basic pillars of islam, distorting quran to own wishes, and blindly rejecting all hadith and sunnah makes them apostates. What kind, well may be it does not matter.
Shimaz
MPA (400+ posts)
I pray for my guidance if i'm wrong and i pray for their guidance if they are wrong. But some people also don't want to be guided like Dr.Israr used to say that "dua maang rahay hotay hain lekin ander say dar rahay hotay hain kay kaheen allah hadayat day hi na day, then they will have to give up all haram etc.". Because the first reason in distorting Islam is (as i diagnosed their disease) is that they find it too difficult to practice it. I mean 5 prayers, wudu, paying out money in zakat, ramadan etc is just the start and already too heavy (which is why it's the first thing they reject). So why not just cook up a new cult that satisfies their desires also and satisfies their parents and ciricle also that bacha is still "muslim", just does not believe in salah, hadith, sunnah etc etc.
This hadith says it all.
“The world is a prison for the believer and a paradise for the unbeliever.”
-Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ)
Reference: Sahih Muslim 2956
Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
It's pretty obvious you are struggling with a lot of things, specially the basics and fundamentals.
I'm not leaving, just not interested in your interrogation, the moment you decide you want to have a dialogue or conversation I'll be more than glad to answer all your queries, but obviously you have no interest in any of that.
Shimaz
MPA (400+ posts)
I have answered everything repeatedly that was needed here, obviously falling on deaf and dumb organs. As you are the one inventing a new cult from mainstream islam that is an even further offshoot of munqireene-e-hadith and munqireen-e-quran, you need to clarify your beliefs first before you can demand another answer, without crying about feeling interrogated.
