Swiss vote on move to ban new minarets
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real.pakistani
MPA (400+ posts)
Swiss minaret ban sends ripples worldwide
Updated at: 0054 PST, Tuesday, December 01, 2009
GENEVA: The Special Rapporteur on freedom of religion or belief at the Office of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights (OHCHR) Asma Jahangir voiced shock on Monday at the outcome of the vote on the initiative to prohibit the construction of minarets in Switzerland, sources reported on Monday.
"I have deep concerns at the negative consequences that the outcome of the vote will have on the freedom of religion or belief of members of the Muslim community in Switzerland.
"Indeed, a ban on minarets amounts to an undue restriction of the freedom to manifest one's religion and constitutes a clear discrimination against the Muslim community in Switzerland," said Jahangir.
As also stated by OHCHR's Human Rights Committee a month ago, such a ban runs counter to Switzerland's obligations under international human rights law, she added.
"This vote reminds us that no societies are immune to religious intolerance. It is therefore necessary more than ever to continue raising awareness and educating people about religious diversity, and enabling all societies to adopt an enlightened and progressive attitude towards the beliefs of other communities," said Jahangir.
Jahangir stressed that doing so will help to eliminate the grounds for irrational fears towards Muslims.
Unfortunately, these fears have been largely exploited in Switzerland for political purposes, she noted.
The Special Rapporteur emphasized that Switzerland, which has ratified the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, must protect and ensure respect for freedom of thought, conscience and religion.
"I therefore urge the Swiss authorities to abide by all their international obligations and to take the necessary measures to fully protect the right to freedom of religion or belief of members of the Muslim community," she concluded.
The current Swedish EU Presidency criticized here Monday the referendum held in Switzerland yesterday to ban minarets from mosques in the country.
"The result of the vote is a negative sign. The freedom of religion is a basic freedom no matter what belief you belong to," Tobias Billstrom Swedish minister of migration and visa policy told a press conference here after a meeting of EU justice and interior ministers.
"We are also running a certain risk because you might be building on the different contradictions of views that we have today and that is not what we are aiming for today in Europe," he said.
Billstrom said he personally believes that it is always better that decisions on architecture etc, should be taken by official bodies and institutions instead of taking a vote on it.
The outcome of Sunday's referendum, sponsored by the anti-immigrant Swiss People's Party was backed by almost 58 percent of voters.
On his part, EU justice commissioner Jacques Barrot told the joint press conference that the EU's executive body does not have to take a position on the issue, as Switzerland is not a member of the EU.
"We are talking about a democratic process which led to the taking of this decision," he said.
Barrot said the Swiss minister of Justice Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf who is in Brussels today fully explained that the federal Swiss government is not in favour of the result of this vote and which will not prevent Muslim citizens from having places of prayers and mosques.
The question only concerns minarets here, noted Barrot.
ShakirQureshi
MPA (400+ posts)
Swiss voters right-wing want Mosque minaret ban, ShakirQ
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 936802.ece
November 30, 2009
Swiss voters back right-wing minaret ban
(Salvatore Di Nolfi/Keystone/AP)
There are four minarets in Switzerland. Proposals to build one in Berne prompted the vote
Image :1 of 3
Charles Bremner in Paris 374 Comments
Recommend? (163) Swiss voters defied their Government and clerics yesterday and approved a ban on building minarets reflecting an alarming hostility to a rising Muslim minority.
Fifty-seven per cent of voters in a referendum supported the direct democracy initiative, which ensured international embarrassment for Switzerland and a backlash in the Muslim world, upon which the country depends for exports.
A large majority of the 27 cantons supported the move, inspired by the Right, with opposition strongest in the German-speaking part of the country. In Geneva, home to United Nations agencies, the voters rejected the initiative by nearly 60 per cent.
Overall turnout was 53 per cent, a relatively low figure by the standards of Swiss democracy. Opponents of the measure saw this as a reflection of apathy among many voters who would not have approved the ban.
Related Links
Intolerance of Islam
Minaret ban fits pattern of populist protest
Women lead Swiss in vote to ban minarets
The referendum was initiated by the nationalist Swiss Peoples Party (SVP), the largest group in the federal parliament, after residents opposed the construction of a minaret in Langenthal, north of Berne.
The yes is the latest act by European voters in support of anti-immigrant parties after electoral successes over the past decade by far-right groups in Austria, the Netherlands and France. A jubilant SVP insisted that the vote had nothing to do with intolerance, only with the imposition of Islamic politics and culture.
In no case does this impinge on religious freedom, Oskar Freysinger, a prominent SVP politician, said. This has nothing to do with the practice of religion.
The populist vote appalled the Swiss Establishment, which had assumed on the basis of opinion polls that a substantial majority would reject the ban. This is another blow to the worlds view of Switzerland as a nation of tolerance and civilisation, a senior Swiss diplomat said.
The Government, the business world and most churches had urged voters to turn down the minaret ban, which they said breached the Swiss Constitution and its guarantees of freedom of religion. The proposal, which is to include a sentence in the Constitution prohibiting the construction of minarets, would only serve the interests of extremist circles, the Government said.
After the vote it pledged to respect the outcome. Muslims in Switzerland are able to practise their religion alone or in community with others and live according to their beliefs just as before, a statement said.
Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf, the Justice Minister, said that the vote reflected a fear of Islamic fundamentalism, but the ban was not a feasible means of countering extremist tendencies. I am assuming our trade relations with other countries will become more difficult, she said.
The vote reflected the strong feeling against Muslims, whose numbers have grown over the past 20 years to about 350,000 or 4 per cent of the population. Most are from Turkey and the Balkans. Only four modest-sized or small minarets exist in Switzerland, where there are about 150 prayer houses. None is used to call the faithful to prayer.
Hans-Rudolf Merz, the Swiss President, had sought to reassure the nation before the vote. Muslims should be able to practise their religion, and have access to minarets in Switzerland too, but the call of the muezzin will not sound here, he said.
The SVP used the issue as an assault on what it depicts as the inroads of political Islam in Switzerland, including Sharia practices and oppression of women. We just want to stop further Islamisation in Switzerland, Walter Wobmann, head of a committee backing the initiative, said after the vote.
The SVPs campaign used posters that depicted a burka-clad woman and a Swiss flag bristling with menacing minarets. The party also exploited heavily in its campaign a remark by Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Turkish Prime Minister, describing minarets as the bayonets of Islam.
The vote was in sharp contrast to opinion polls, which predicted that between 53 per cent and 54 per cent would reject the proposal.
Ulrich Schler, an SVP parliamentarian who drafted the initiative, told The Times that he had been certain of victory. We are still at the beginning of the process. We compare our situation to Germany, France or England the problems they have in their suburbs, he said. That is what we do not want here.
The SVP rejects the Governments view that a ban would breach the law on freedom of religion. This is not against Islam. The minaret is a symbol of political power, Mr Schler said.
The Swiss political world is worried at the prospects of a worldwide Muslim backlash of the kind that hit Denmark after a newspaper published cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.
Swiss-made, the most trusted brand in the world, is at stake, business leaders said. Gerold Bhrer, president of the Swiss Business Federation, reminded the country that it earned 10 billion a year from Muslim countries and that Geneva alone received 174,500 visits from the Gulf last year.
Last night about 300 people protested outside the Parliament building in Berne. In front of a model of a minaret they held up signs saying: This is not my Switzerland. A young woman pinned to her jacket a piece of paper saying: Swiss passport for sale.
Amnesty International said that the vote would probably be overturned by the Swiss supreme court or the European Court of Human Rights.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 936802.ece
November 30, 2009
Swiss voters back right-wing minaret ban
(Salvatore Di Nolfi/Keystone/AP)
There are four minarets in Switzerland. Proposals to build one in Berne prompted the vote
Image :1 of 3
Charles Bremner in Paris 374 Comments
Recommend? (163) Swiss voters defied their Government and clerics yesterday and approved a ban on building minarets reflecting an alarming hostility to a rising Muslim minority.
Fifty-seven per cent of voters in a referendum supported the direct democracy initiative, which ensured international embarrassment for Switzerland and a backlash in the Muslim world, upon which the country depends for exports.
A large majority of the 27 cantons supported the move, inspired by the Right, with opposition strongest in the German-speaking part of the country. In Geneva, home to United Nations agencies, the voters rejected the initiative by nearly 60 per cent.
Overall turnout was 53 per cent, a relatively low figure by the standards of Swiss democracy. Opponents of the measure saw this as a reflection of apathy among many voters who would not have approved the ban.
Related Links
Intolerance of Islam
Minaret ban fits pattern of populist protest
Women lead Swiss in vote to ban minarets
The referendum was initiated by the nationalist Swiss Peoples Party (SVP), the largest group in the federal parliament, after residents opposed the construction of a minaret in Langenthal, north of Berne.
The yes is the latest act by European voters in support of anti-immigrant parties after electoral successes over the past decade by far-right groups in Austria, the Netherlands and France. A jubilant SVP insisted that the vote had nothing to do with intolerance, only with the imposition of Islamic politics and culture.
In no case does this impinge on religious freedom, Oskar Freysinger, a prominent SVP politician, said. This has nothing to do with the practice of religion.
The populist vote appalled the Swiss Establishment, which had assumed on the basis of opinion polls that a substantial majority would reject the ban. This is another blow to the worlds view of Switzerland as a nation of tolerance and civilisation, a senior Swiss diplomat said.
The Government, the business world and most churches had urged voters to turn down the minaret ban, which they said breached the Swiss Constitution and its guarantees of freedom of religion. The proposal, which is to include a sentence in the Constitution prohibiting the construction of minarets, would only serve the interests of extremist circles, the Government said.
After the vote it pledged to respect the outcome. Muslims in Switzerland are able to practise their religion alone or in community with others and live according to their beliefs just as before, a statement said.
Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf, the Justice Minister, said that the vote reflected a fear of Islamic fundamentalism, but the ban was not a feasible means of countering extremist tendencies. I am assuming our trade relations with other countries will become more difficult, she said.
The vote reflected the strong feeling against Muslims, whose numbers have grown over the past 20 years to about 350,000 or 4 per cent of the population. Most are from Turkey and the Balkans. Only four modest-sized or small minarets exist in Switzerland, where there are about 150 prayer houses. None is used to call the faithful to prayer.
Hans-Rudolf Merz, the Swiss President, had sought to reassure the nation before the vote. Muslims should be able to practise their religion, and have access to minarets in Switzerland too, but the call of the muezzin will not sound here, he said.
The SVP used the issue as an assault on what it depicts as the inroads of political Islam in Switzerland, including Sharia practices and oppression of women. We just want to stop further Islamisation in Switzerland, Walter Wobmann, head of a committee backing the initiative, said after the vote.
The SVPs campaign used posters that depicted a burka-clad woman and a Swiss flag bristling with menacing minarets. The party also exploited heavily in its campaign a remark by Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Turkish Prime Minister, describing minarets as the bayonets of Islam.
The vote was in sharp contrast to opinion polls, which predicted that between 53 per cent and 54 per cent would reject the proposal.
Ulrich Schler, an SVP parliamentarian who drafted the initiative, told The Times that he had been certain of victory. We are still at the beginning of the process. We compare our situation to Germany, France or England the problems they have in their suburbs, he said. That is what we do not want here.
The SVP rejects the Governments view that a ban would breach the law on freedom of religion. This is not against Islam. The minaret is a symbol of political power, Mr Schler said.
The Swiss political world is worried at the prospects of a worldwide Muslim backlash of the kind that hit Denmark after a newspaper published cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.
Swiss-made, the most trusted brand in the world, is at stake, business leaders said. Gerold Bhrer, president of the Swiss Business Federation, reminded the country that it earned 10 billion a year from Muslim countries and that Geneva alone received 174,500 visits from the Gulf last year.
Last night about 300 people protested outside the Parliament building in Berne. In front of a model of a minaret they held up signs saying: This is not my Switzerland. A young woman pinned to her jacket a piece of paper saying: Swiss passport for sale.
Amnesty International said that the vote would probably be overturned by the Swiss supreme court or the European Court of Human Rights.
Can any one elaborate the importance of Minarets" in Islam using references from Quran and Hadeeth.
I am not saying that the ban is right as it is a clear violation of the basic human rights.......
As I think when religion comes we think as per our own will/liking/disliking and not taking guidance from Quran and Hadeeth! which is important!
I am not saying that the ban is right as it is a clear violation of the basic human rights.......
As I think when religion comes we think as per our own will/liking/disliking and not taking guidance from Quran and Hadeeth! which is important!
ShakirQureshi
MPA (400+ posts)
@nabeel
your question is very stupid, these kind of minarets are simbolic, how come a Muslim asking this Question.
i think if any other religion want to build their holy place in Pakistan, WE will not have any objection if they want to build its minar.
your question is very stupid, these kind of minarets are simbolic, how come a Muslim asking this Question.
i think if any other religion want to build their holy place in Pakistan, WE will not have any objection if they want to build its minar.
G
Guest
Guest
nabeel117 said:
ShakirQureshi said:
Can you explain what are the basic human rights?
Ahmadis are not allowed to build mosques in Pakistan. many mosques have already destryoed by so called extremist "Muslim Mullahs" and their illetrate followers. and these aggressive extemist Mullahs are now every where in Muslim world. And you all muslims only supporting this persecution because you think Ahmadi's are kaafir(nauzbillah). not following what you like.
I know most among you will not condemn it..............because this mosque belongs to us (Ahmadis)............
We (Ahmadi's) don't care if somebody consider us non-Muslim but if they will go beyond this, Allah will impose his punishment.
I condemn swiss poll. but justice should be absolute for everybody, everywhere without any condition...
Any real muslim (who is not afraid from other extremist members), real human there(in this forum) who can condemn it....???
G
Guest
Guest
This hadees is by our beloved Prophet Hazrat Mohammad(SA) for Taul and everybody else who call us (Ahmadis) non-muslim.
Taul! you call yourself Muslim I accept it. Our Identity is Islam. You extremists have not any right to define our identity.
This Hadees shows beautiful face of Islam. Who cares for stupid constitution of Pakistan and these extremist mullas decesions who are now killing other innocent people in the name of Islam.
Again I call myself a Muslim (AlhamdoliAllah). Prophet(sa) of Allah is accepting me that is enough for me...
Taul! extremist people are the main cause of this swiss problem. who are representing bad face of Islam everywhere. This way you are trying to hide peacful teachings of Islam.
Taul! you call yourself Muslim I accept it. Our Identity is Islam. You extremists have not any right to define our identity.
This Hadees shows beautiful face of Islam. Who cares for stupid constitution of Pakistan and these extremist mullas decesions who are now killing other innocent people in the name of Islam.
Again I call myself a Muslim (AlhamdoliAllah). Prophet(sa) of Allah is accepting me that is enough for me...
Taul! extremist people are the main cause of this swiss problem. who are representing bad face of Islam everywhere. This way you are trying to hide peacful teachings of Islam.
taul
Siasat.pk - Blogger
@ ab
---But ya'll beleive in "Reincarnation" which is a belief of hinduism :roll: ..We Muslims go by our hadeeth and in Islam there's no Reincarnation and in hadeeth the proper coming of Imam mahdi has been narrated which you flatly reject so combining both you become kinda cocktail and a Non-muslim. :)
---But ya'll beleive in "Reincarnation" which is a belief of hinduism :roll: ..We Muslims go by our hadeeth and in Islam there's no Reincarnation and in hadeeth the proper coming of Imam mahdi has been narrated which you flatly reject so combining both you become kinda cocktail and a Non-muslim. :)
Background of minsrets ban
This initiative was brought up by conservative right party (SVP) Swiss peoples party and (FDP) Free democratic party. Both parties have approxemately 30% to 40% vote bank. As switzerland is a direct democracy, Swiss goes to poll almost every 3 months for different initiatives.
swiss government was against the initiative and tried its best to campaign against the ban. Swiss justice minister Mrs. Widmer Schlumpf and other officials were seen campaigning and debating on tv, press and different other forums. Prior to Refrendum all opinion polls were showing that almost 60% will say no to ban. This was realy a surprizing shock for the Swiss govt and moderate faction of the society. (Not to forget switzerland is a conservative society, only 20 years ago women were allowed to vote and in some Swiss cantons women still get less salery then men for the same job)
As 57% have sayed yes to ban the minarets, it dose not mean it is a law, now the bill will go to parliment and there will be debate. On the other hand swiss constitution guarantee the relgious freedom.
Swiss muslims are considering to go to European humanrights court in strasbourg against the out come of refrendum. Swiss modrates are very upset and concerend. Sunday evening after the announcement of result, there were demostrations in Bern (Infront of Swiss parliment), Zrich and Geneva against the yes vote (ban). From last 3 days, on the Facebook almost 100,000 swiss have regreted the out come and simply stated "they are aschamed to be Swiss".
Note! I,m not defending the yes vote but regret it and hope like millions of Swiss it will be reversed, which is possible through same kind of initiative after certain period of time.
This initiative was brought up by conservative right party (SVP) Swiss peoples party and (FDP) Free democratic party. Both parties have approxemately 30% to 40% vote bank. As switzerland is a direct democracy, Swiss goes to poll almost every 3 months for different initiatives.
swiss government was against the initiative and tried its best to campaign against the ban. Swiss justice minister Mrs. Widmer Schlumpf and other officials were seen campaigning and debating on tv, press and different other forums. Prior to Refrendum all opinion polls were showing that almost 60% will say no to ban. This was realy a surprizing shock for the Swiss govt and moderate faction of the society. (Not to forget switzerland is a conservative society, only 20 years ago women were allowed to vote and in some Swiss cantons women still get less salery then men for the same job)
As 57% have sayed yes to ban the minarets, it dose not mean it is a law, now the bill will go to parliment and there will be debate. On the other hand swiss constitution guarantee the relgious freedom.
Swiss muslims are considering to go to European humanrights court in strasbourg against the out come of refrendum. Swiss modrates are very upset and concerend. Sunday evening after the announcement of result, there were demostrations in Bern (Infront of Swiss parliment), Zrich and Geneva against the yes vote (ban). From last 3 days, on the Facebook almost 100,000 swiss have regreted the out come and simply stated "they are aschamed to be Swiss".
Note! I,m not defending the yes vote but regret it and hope like millions of Swiss it will be reversed, which is possible through same kind of initiative after certain period of time.
G
Guest
Guest
taul! First of all, whatever our belief is, you agree or not, still Prophet(sa) of Allah says who calims to be a muslim is muslim. You are just trying to reject his Fatwa, but I am accepting it. Now you can analyze logically, who is non-muslim.
But still I have no right to call you a non-muslim. you might be a good muslim in eyes of Allah. I respect what you are saying about you. Leave the decesion on Allah.
Secondly! "Reincarnation" is not our belief. how you got it. When a person dies he/she can never come back according to Laws of Allah.
We can say somebody's face is like another person's face Or if we say a frase "he is a lion". A sensable person will never think we mean a real lion with a tail. by saying somebody a lion always means he is very brave like a lion. Who stupid will say it is "Reincarnation". when Hazoor (sa) said Ibn-e-marium will arrive he means a person like jesus(as) with same properties will come. Jesus(as) came to organized Jews same another person like jesus(as) will come in Ummat-e-Muslima to unite all muslims against Fitna of Dajjal. Now tell me why you are blaming us we believe on "Reincarnation"????? again I don't want to defend our(Ahmadis) belief here if you think we believe "Reincarnation". do it, but you don't have any right to persecute agains us.
I can explain about the claim of Mirza Sahib(as) for being a Promissed Messiah if you start another thread.
But still I have no right to call you a non-muslim. you might be a good muslim in eyes of Allah. I respect what you are saying about you. Leave the decesion on Allah.
Secondly! "Reincarnation" is not our belief. how you got it. When a person dies he/she can never come back according to Laws of Allah.
We can say somebody's face is like another person's face Or if we say a frase "he is a lion". A sensable person will never think we mean a real lion with a tail. by saying somebody a lion always means he is very brave like a lion. Who stupid will say it is "Reincarnation". when Hazoor (sa) said Ibn-e-marium will arrive he means a person like jesus(as) with same properties will come. Jesus(as) came to organized Jews same another person like jesus(as) will come in Ummat-e-Muslima to unite all muslims against Fitna of Dajjal. Now tell me why you are blaming us we believe on "Reincarnation"????? again I don't want to defend our(Ahmadis) belief here if you think we believe "Reincarnation". do it, but you don't have any right to persecute agains us.
I can explain about the claim of Mirza Sahib(as) for being a Promissed Messiah if you start another thread.
taul
Siasat.pk - Blogger
@ ab
--That's the whole point ,you Qaidyanis accept Mirza to be a re-born :shock: clearly contradicting the basic tenet of Islam along with calling him mahdi whereas all the narrations say otherwise regarding all the signs of arrival of Imam-Mahdi..If you are ill-informed then have a look at your mirza in his own words...
Qadianis Debase the Islamic Kalimah
--This article draws special attention of the reader to the fact that the Qadianis deem Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a Prophet incarnate through reincarnation, i. e. rebirth of the holy Prophet of Islam in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's person. Thus, they have rebelled against Islam and seceded from it. They have in fact given the pretender a place higher than that of the holy Prophet(S.A.W).
The contents of this text are based on authentic Qadiani literature with references to the relevant book and page. We take full responsibility and do hereby declare that the sources are authentic and correct.
To Qadianis Muhammad(S.A.W) is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Himself :evil:
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claims that he himself is (na-uzo-billah - Allah forbid) Muhammad(S.A.W): :evil:
"Muhammad is the apostle of Allah. and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other." (Holy Quran, 48:29)
Mirza said, "In this divine revelation (the above verse) I have been named Muhammad as well as the Messenger of Allah". (Ek Ghalati Ka Izala, P. 3; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 18, P. 207).
The So-called Two Prophetic Appointments Of Muhammad (S.A.W)
The reasons why the Qadianis deem Mirza to be Muhammad (S.A.W) is that according to the Qadiani belief, `Khatam-un-Nabieen' (the final Prophet (S.A.W)) had been ordained to be born in Mekkah as Muhammad. For the second time, according to the Qadianis, he was reincarnated in Qadian as Mirza Ghulam Ahmad! In other words, the spirit of Muhammad (S.A.W) along with his prophetic accomplishments allegedly appeared a second time in the incarnation of Mirza; And we quote:
"And know that just as our holy Prophet (S.A.W) was born in the 5th century, in the same way he was reborn in the end of 19th century in the incarnation of the Promised Masih (Mirza)". (Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah, P. 180; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 16, P. 270)
"The holy Prophet (S.A.W) had two births as a Prophet. In other words, we may say that it was promised that the holy Prophet(SAW) would be born in the world once and once more reincarnated and this was fulfilled by the incarnation of the promised Masih and the promised Mahdi (Mirza)". (Tuhfa-e-Golravia, p. 94; footnote, Roohani Khazain, Vol. 17, P. 249)
Mirza of Qadian Claimed To Be The Same As Muhammad(S.A.W)
According to Qadiani belief Muhammad (S.A.W) with all his excellence was reincarnated in Mirza of Qadian. As such the entity of Mirza of Qadian is (na-uzo-billah) the same as the entity of Muhammad (S.A.W). Mirza has said:
"And Allah bestowed upon me the bounty of the holy Prophet and made it perfect, and he drew towards me the kindness and generosity of that merciful Prophet, so much so that my entity became his entity. Thus he who joins my Jama'at really becomes one of the Sahaba (companions) of my chief who was better then all the Prophets. It is not hidden from those with the ability to think that this is what the words "others of them" mean. The person who makes a difference between me and Mustafa has neither seen me nor recognized me". (Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah, P. 171; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 16, P. 258-259).
Mirza of Qadian Claimed That He Possessed All The Virtues And Excellence Of Muhammad (S.A.W)
Once the belief had been fabricated that the being of Mirza is exactly the being of Muhammad (S.A.W) and that it is Muhammad (S.A.W) himself who was reincarnated in Qadian as Mirza, then it must also be alleged that all the accomplishments and distinctions of Muhammad (S.A.W) were transferred to Mirza. Mirza has said:
"When I am the holy Prophet incarnate and when all the accomplishments of Muhammad including the prophethood are reflected in my mirror of my shadiness, then who is the man who has claimed prophethood in a separate being ?" (Ek Ghalati Ka Izala, P. 8; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 18, P. 212)
"The entity of the promised Masih (Mirza), in the sight of Allah is the entity of the holy Prophet (S.A.W). In other words, in the records of Allah, there is no duality or difference between the promised Masih and the holy Prophet (S.A.W); Rather they both share the same eminence, the same rank, the same status and the same name. Although verbally they are two, yet in reality they are one and the same". (Al-Fazl, Qadian, Vol. 3, No. 37, dated 16th September 1915, as cited in Qadiani Mazhab P. 207, 9th edition, Lahore)
Mirza Of Qadian Claimed That He Was The Final Prophet
According to the Qadiani belief, the "Qadiani based" birth of Muhammad (S.A.W) as a prophet took place in the incarnate Autar, Mirza of Qadian. And since he became incarnate of Muhammad (S.A.W) then Mirza becomes the "final prophet" , as well! Mirza says:
I have told so many times that according to the verse: "And others of them.." I am incarnate the last of the Prophets. Twenty years ago Allah named me in Braheen-e-Ahmadia, Muhammad and Ahmad and declared that I am the holy Prophet's (S.A.W) incarnation. (Ek Ghalati Ka Izala, P. 8; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 18; P. 212)
"Blessed is he who has recognized me. Of all the paths to God I am the last path, and of all his Lights, I am the last Light. Unfortunate is he who forsakes me, because without me all is darkness". (Kashti-e-Nooh, P. 56; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 19, P. 61).
Mirza of Qadian Claimed He Was The Best Of The Prophets Of Allah
"Many thrones have descended from heaven but thy throne has been placed the highest". (Tazkirah, 2nd Ed., P. 643)
"The various accomplishments which were bestowed upon all other Prophets were concentrated in a greater degree in the holy Prophet. All those accomplishments have been conferred on me through the holy Prophets reincarnation in me. That is why I bear the names of Adam, Abraham, Moses, Noah, Solomon, Jesus, etc. All the previous Prophets were the incarnations of special attributes of the holy Prophet ,but I am the the reincarnation of all the attributes of the holy Prophet". (Malfoozat-e-Mirza, Vol. 3, P. 270)
Mirza of Qadian Claimed That He Was Superior To Muhammad (S.A.W) :x
The Qadianis believe that Mirza's reincarnation was superior to the Prophets first birth in Mekkah. Mirza says:
One who denies that the ordainment of the Prophet(SAW) is related to the 6th thousand as it was related to the 5th thousand, denies the truth and the mandate of the Quran. The truth is that the spirituality of the (reincarnated) holy Prophet at the end of the 6th thousand (ie these days), is much more stronger, more complete and severe than in those early years. rather it is like the 14th (moonlit) night". (Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah, P. 181; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 16, P. 271-272)
The Simile Of "The New Moon" Used For The Holy Prophet (S.A.W) And That Of "The Full Moon" Used For Mirza
The superiority of the Qadiani incarnation has been expressed in yet another style: viz. During the Mekkan age the holy Prophet (S.A.W), Islam was like the crescent in which there is no light, but in his so-called Qadiani reincarnation, Islam became lighted and illuminated like the full moon. Mirza said:
"And Islam started like the crescent which was destined ultimately to become in the later ages the full moon by the command of God. Thus Allah's wisdom willed that Islam should assume the form of the full moon in that century which should resemble the full moon by way of counting". (Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah, P. 181; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 16, P. 275)
"To declare those who denied the holy Prophet in his first birth as unbelievers and outside the fold of Islam, but to regard the deniers of his second birth as Muslim is an insult to the Prophet and a joke against the signs of Allah, although the promised Masih has in Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah, compared the mutual relation between the first and the second births of the holy Prophet to the relationship between the crescent and the full moon". (Akhbar Al-Fazl, Qadian, Vol. 3, No. 10, dated 15th July 1915 as cited in Qadiani Mazhab, P. 262)
Greater Manifest Victory
In order to express the superiority of Mirza it was claimed that the manifest victory achieved by Mirza was greater then the manifest victory of the holy Prophet (S.A.W). Thus, Mirza said:
"It is apparent that the time of the manifest victory of the era of the holy Prophet has expired, and the second victory which was to be much greater and clearer then the first one had yet to be achieved. It was ordained that its time should fall during the time of the promised Masih". (Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah, P. 193-194; Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 16, P. 288)
So-Called Beginning and Perfection of Mirza's Spiritual Excellence
It was also claimed that the era of the Makkan birth of the holy Prophet (S.A.W) was only the first step in his progress of spiritual attainments, whereas his Qadiani reincarnation represents the highest pinnacle of his spiritual development. Thus it is said:
"The spirituality of our holy Prophet (S.A.W) was conceived 5th thousand (i.e. Mekkan birth) with its precise attributes and that period was not the climax of his spirituality's development. It was rather the first step to the highest pinnacle of its perfection. Thereafter, this spirituality manifested itself in its full glamour during the 6th thousand [his rebirth in Qadian] at the present time". (Khutba-e-llhamiah, P. 177; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 16, P. 266)
The so Called Superior mental Development of Mirza
It is also claimed that the mental development of Mirza of Qadian was superior to that of the holy Prophet (S.A.W). Thus it is said:
"The mental development of the promised Masih (i.e. the Mirza of Qadian) was higher than that of the holy Prophet (S.A.W). And this is only a part of the superiority which the promised Masih has over the holy Prophet. The mental faculties of the holy Prophet could not manifest fully owing to the deficiency of civilization; although the ability existed. They have now manifested themselves fully through the promised Masih by virtue of the advancement of civilization." (Review, May 1929, as cited in Qadiani Mazhab, P. 266, ninth edition, Lahore)
Qadianis Term Reciters of Kalimah of Muhammad (S.A.W) as Kafir(!)
When it is admitted, according to the Qadiani belief, that the Qadiani Mirza is (God forbid) superior to Muhammad of Arabia (S.A.W) in dignity, then it must also be necessary to believe that those who recite the Kalimah of Muhammad (S.A.W) are not Muslims. In other words. the Kalimae Tayyibah, (La Illaha Ill-lah, Muhammadur Rasoolullah), without belief in the Qadiani Mirza, becomes false. Thus it is said:
"The point is now quite clear. If it is 'Kufr' to deny the gracious Prophet it must also be 'Kufr' to deny the promised Masih, because the promised Masih is in no way a separate being from the gracious Prophet; rather he is the same (Muhammad incarnate). If anyone is not deemed a Kafir for denying the promised Masih, then anyone else who denies the gracious Prophet also cannot be considered a Kafir. How is it possible that denying him in his first birth as Prophet should be regarded as Kufr, but denying him in his (reincarnated) second birth as prophet should not be regarded as Kufr, when, as claimed by the promised Masih, his (Mirza's as Muhammad incarnate) spiritual attainment is stronger, complete and severe." (Kalimatul Fasl, P. 146-147, as cited in the Review of Religions, dated March-April 1915).
"Any person who believes in Moses but does not believe in Christ, or believes in Christ but does not believe in Muhammad, or believes in Muhammad but does not believe in the promised Masih, is not only a Kafir, but a 'pakka' (confirmed) Kafir, and (he is) out of the fold of Islam." (Kalimatul Fasl, P. 110, by Mirza Bashir Ahmad, M.A.)
"The Ahmadi movement bears the same relationship to Islam as Christianity bears to Judaism." (Muhammad Ali Lahori Qadiani cited from Mubahasah Rawalpindi, P. 240).
"All such Muslims as did not swear allegiance to the promised Masih (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian), even though they did not hear the name of the promised Masih, are Kafir and debarred from the fold of Islam." (Aiena-e-Sadaqat, P. 35, by Mirza Mahmud Ahmad Qadiani).
"It is incumbent upon us that we should not regard non-Ahmadis as Muslims, nor should we offer prayers behind them, because according to our belief they deny one of the prophets of Allah. This is a matter of faith none has any discretion in this." (Anwar-e-Khilafat, P. 90, by Mahmud Ahmad Qadiani).
The so-called Qadiani Kalimah
It also became necessary in the Qadiani strategy to include the Qadiani Mirza in the meaning of the Qadiani Kalimah: Thus it is said:
"As a result of the birth of the promised Masih (the Qadiani Mirza) a difference has cropped up (in the meaning of the Kalimah). Before the birth of the promised Masih (the Qadiani Mirza) in the world as a prophet, the words (Muhammad ur Rasul Allah) included in their meaning only such prophets as had preceded him; but after the incarnation of the promised Masih (the Qadiani Mirza) in the world as a prophet, one more prophet has been added to the meaning of Muhammad ur Rasul Allah. Therefore on account of the incarnation of the promised Masih the Kalimah, God forbid, does not become abolished; it rather shines more brightly. In short, the same Kalimah is (effective) even now for embracing Islam, with the only difference that the incarnation of the promised Masih (Mirza Qadiani) has added one more prophet to the meaning of Muhammad ur Rasul Allah". (Kalimatul Fasl, P. 158, by Mirza Bashir Ahmad Qadiani).
In short, the Qadiani Religion has retained the same words of the Kalimah, but the Qadiani belief has changed the meaning of the Kalimah. In the Kalimah of the Muslims "Muhammad ur Rasul Allah" means Muhammad of Arabia(SAW), but in the Qadiani Kalimah "Muhammad ur Rasul Allah" means Mirza Qadiani as Muhammad incarnate, reborn in the world as a prophet for the second time. Thus it is said:
"Moreover, even if we accept by supposing the impossible that the sacred name of the gracious Prophet has been included in the sacred Kalimah because he is the last of the Prophets, even then there is no harm and we do not need a new Kalimah because the promised Masih is not a separate entity from the gracious Prophet as he (Mirza) himself says: "My being is exactly the being of Muhammad ur Rasul Allah". Also, "One who discriminates between me and Mustafa has neither recognized me nor seen me". And the reason for this is Allah Almighty's promise that He would reincarnate "Khatam-un-Nabieen" in this world once more as a prophet as is evident from the verse "And others of them"... Thus the promised Masih (Mirza of Qadian) is himself Muhammad ur Rasulullah, who has been incarnated in the world again to spread Islam. We do not, therefore, need any new Kalimah. Albeit, a new Kalimah would have been necessary, if some other person had been reincarnated instead of Muhammad ur Rasul Allah. So contemplate!" (Kalimatul Fasl, P. 158).
Qadiani Belief: Prophethood of Muhammad stands Abrogated and His Kalimah Stands Canceled
A little thought on the above-cited passages makes it quite clear that not only do the Qadianis consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to be a Prophet and Messenger (of Allah) but they also consider Mirza of Qadian a complete incarnation of Muhammad (S.A.W) and, as such, recite his (Mirza's) Kalimah. They consider as Kafirs all those who recite the Kalimah of Muhammad of Arabia (S.A.W). This proves that for the Qadianis the Kalimah of Muhammad of Arabia (S.A.W) stands canceled.
If we look more closely into the issue we shall find that according to the Qadiani belief -- like that of the Bahais -- the period of the Prophethood and Apostleship of Muhammad of Arabia (S.A.W) has expired and it stands repealed for all practical purposes, because, according to the Qadiani belief, the basis of salvation lies in obeying the Qadiani Mirza only. So Mirza said:
"Say to them: if you love God then come and obey me so that God also may love you".
(Mirza Qadiani's "revelation" as cited in Haqiqatul Wahi, P. 79/82, Lahore, 1952; Roohani Khazain. Vol. 22, P. 82. Also see pages 46, 62, 81, 182, 205, 277, 360, 363, 378, 395, 495, 630, 634, in Tazkirah, 2nd Edition).
"In Braheen-e-Ahmadia, God has called me by the name of Ibrahim, as He said: "This means: Salutation on Ibrahim (i.e. this humble man [Mirza]). We truly made friends with him and saved him from every sorrow. And O ye who follow, let the place of Ibrahim's footsteps be the place of your prayers. That is, obey completely so that you may attain salvation." (Arbaeen, Vol. 3, P. 30-31; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 17, P. 420).
"As regards the assertion (verse from Quran regarding Ibrahim), this is a verse of the holy Quran. Here it means: perform your prayers and hold beliefs on the pattern of Ibrahim (i.e. Mirza Qadiani) who has been sent, and mold yourself on his model in every matter". (Arbaeen, Vol. 3, P. 31; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 17, P. 42).
"Similar is the verse (same verse quoted above) which contains a hint that at a time when the Ummat-e-Muhammadia will become divided into many sects, then during the last era, an Ibrahim (i.e. Mirza Qadiani) will be born and out of all the sects, the sect which follows this Ibrahim, (i.e. Mirza!), will be saved". (Arbaeen, Vol. 3, P. 32; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 17, P. 421).
"My teachings contain orders as well as prohibitions and renovation of important injunctions of the Shari'at. For this reason, God has named my teachings and the 'wahi' (revelation) that comes to me as a 'boat. Thus see, God has declared my 'wahi', my teachings and allegiance with me to be Noah's Ark and the basis of salvation for all human beings. Let he who has eyes may see and he who has ears may hear." (Arbaeen, Vol. 4, footnote of P. 6; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 17, P. 435).
Thus obedience to Mirza Qadiani's prophethood, teachings, 'wahi' and his renovated Shari'at is allegedly the only basis for salvation for all mankind. This only means, that the Shari'at of Muhammad of Arabia (S.A.W), his teachings and 'wahi' are no longer the basis of salvation. In other words, Mirza's incarnation has rendered all these useless, suspended and abolished!
The Pre-Mirza Islam is a "Dead Religion"
The above-cited quotations confirm beyond a shadow of doubt that in the opinion of the Qadianis, lslam without the Qadiani Mirza is dead. So it is said:
"Probably in the year 1906, at the proposal of Khwaja Kamaluddin, Moulvi Muhammad Ali entered into an agreement with the Editor of Akhbar-e-Watan to the effect that the Review of Religions would publish no articles about the (Qadiani) sect; it would only publish general articles on Islam and the Editor of the Watan would propagate in his paper for the assistance of the Journal, Review of Religions. The promised Masih disapproved this proposal and it was strongly opposed by the Jama'at also. Hazrat Sahib said: 'Will you present dead Islam before the world by excluding me?"
(Zikr-e-Habib by Mufti Muhammad Sadiq Qadiani, P. 146, First Edition, Qadian).
"We believe that a religion which does not have the chain of prophethood (as in Islam-- Compiler) is a dead religion. We call the religions of the Jews, the Christians and the Hindus dead only because now there are no prophets in them. If this were the position in Islam too, we would be no more than mere story-tellers. Why do we regard it superior to other religions? It must have some distinction". (Malfoozat-e-Mirza, Vol. 10, P. 127).
"During the lifetime of the promised Masih (Mirza Qadiani), at the proposal of Moulvi Muhammad Ali and Khwaja Kamaluddin, the Editor of Akhbar-e-Watan started a fund-collecting scheme in 1905 for the purpose of sending copies of the Review of Religions to foreign countries, on the condition that it should not contain the name of the promised Masih (Mirza Qadiani). But 'hazrate aqdas' (Mirza Qadiani) rejected this proposal saying: Will you present dead Islam by excluding me?' Thereupon, the Editor Watan announced the closure of this fund-collecting scheme".
(Al-Fazl, Qadian, Vol. 16, No. 32, dated 19th October, 1928, as cited in Qadiani Mazhab, P. 461-462).
Qadianis Denounce Islam as a "Cursed, Satanic, and Contemptible Religion"
According to the Qadiani belief, the Religion of Islam, without the prophethood of Mirza Qadiani, is only a 'collection of tales', it is a 'cursed, satanic and contemptible religion'.
"That religion is no religion and that prophet is no prophet by following whom a man does not come so close to God as to be honored with divine conversation (i.e. Prophethood - Compiler). That religion is cursed and contemptible which teaches that human progress depends only on a few narrated anecdotes (i.e. the Shari'at-e-Muhammadia which is narrated from the holy Prophet (S.A.W) - Compiler) and that the 'wahi' has lagged behind instead of going ahead ........ Hence such a religion deserves to be called satanic rather than divine." (i.e. Islam of the holy Prophet(SAW) is, God forbid, Satanic - Translator). (Zamima-e-Braheen-e-Ahmadia, Part V, P. 138-139; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 21, P. 306).
--That's the whole point ,you Qaidyanis accept Mirza to be a re-born :shock: clearly contradicting the basic tenet of Islam along with calling him mahdi whereas all the narrations say otherwise regarding all the signs of arrival of Imam-Mahdi..If you are ill-informed then have a look at your mirza in his own words...
Qadianis Debase the Islamic Kalimah
--This article draws special attention of the reader to the fact that the Qadianis deem Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a Prophet incarnate through reincarnation, i. e. rebirth of the holy Prophet of Islam in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's person. Thus, they have rebelled against Islam and seceded from it. They have in fact given the pretender a place higher than that of the holy Prophet(S.A.W).
The contents of this text are based on authentic Qadiani literature with references to the relevant book and page. We take full responsibility and do hereby declare that the sources are authentic and correct.
To Qadianis Muhammad(S.A.W) is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Himself :evil:
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claims that he himself is (na-uzo-billah - Allah forbid) Muhammad(S.A.W): :evil:
"Muhammad is the apostle of Allah. and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other." (Holy Quran, 48:29)
Mirza said, "In this divine revelation (the above verse) I have been named Muhammad as well as the Messenger of Allah". (Ek Ghalati Ka Izala, P. 3; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 18, P. 207).
The So-called Two Prophetic Appointments Of Muhammad (S.A.W)
The reasons why the Qadianis deem Mirza to be Muhammad (S.A.W) is that according to the Qadiani belief, `Khatam-un-Nabieen' (the final Prophet (S.A.W)) had been ordained to be born in Mekkah as Muhammad. For the second time, according to the Qadianis, he was reincarnated in Qadian as Mirza Ghulam Ahmad! In other words, the spirit of Muhammad (S.A.W) along with his prophetic accomplishments allegedly appeared a second time in the incarnation of Mirza; And we quote:
"And know that just as our holy Prophet (S.A.W) was born in the 5th century, in the same way he was reborn in the end of 19th century in the incarnation of the Promised Masih (Mirza)". (Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah, P. 180; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 16, P. 270)
"The holy Prophet (S.A.W) had two births as a Prophet. In other words, we may say that it was promised that the holy Prophet(SAW) would be born in the world once and once more reincarnated and this was fulfilled by the incarnation of the promised Masih and the promised Mahdi (Mirza)". (Tuhfa-e-Golravia, p. 94; footnote, Roohani Khazain, Vol. 17, P. 249)
Mirza of Qadian Claimed To Be The Same As Muhammad(S.A.W)
According to Qadiani belief Muhammad (S.A.W) with all his excellence was reincarnated in Mirza of Qadian. As such the entity of Mirza of Qadian is (na-uzo-billah) the same as the entity of Muhammad (S.A.W). Mirza has said:
"And Allah bestowed upon me the bounty of the holy Prophet and made it perfect, and he drew towards me the kindness and generosity of that merciful Prophet, so much so that my entity became his entity. Thus he who joins my Jama'at really becomes one of the Sahaba (companions) of my chief who was better then all the Prophets. It is not hidden from those with the ability to think that this is what the words "others of them" mean. The person who makes a difference between me and Mustafa has neither seen me nor recognized me". (Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah, P. 171; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 16, P. 258-259).
Mirza of Qadian Claimed That He Possessed All The Virtues And Excellence Of Muhammad (S.A.W)
Once the belief had been fabricated that the being of Mirza is exactly the being of Muhammad (S.A.W) and that it is Muhammad (S.A.W) himself who was reincarnated in Qadian as Mirza, then it must also be alleged that all the accomplishments and distinctions of Muhammad (S.A.W) were transferred to Mirza. Mirza has said:
"When I am the holy Prophet incarnate and when all the accomplishments of Muhammad including the prophethood are reflected in my mirror of my shadiness, then who is the man who has claimed prophethood in a separate being ?" (Ek Ghalati Ka Izala, P. 8; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 18, P. 212)
"The entity of the promised Masih (Mirza), in the sight of Allah is the entity of the holy Prophet (S.A.W). In other words, in the records of Allah, there is no duality or difference between the promised Masih and the holy Prophet (S.A.W); Rather they both share the same eminence, the same rank, the same status and the same name. Although verbally they are two, yet in reality they are one and the same". (Al-Fazl, Qadian, Vol. 3, No. 37, dated 16th September 1915, as cited in Qadiani Mazhab P. 207, 9th edition, Lahore)
Mirza Of Qadian Claimed That He Was The Final Prophet
According to the Qadiani belief, the "Qadiani based" birth of Muhammad (S.A.W) as a prophet took place in the incarnate Autar, Mirza of Qadian. And since he became incarnate of Muhammad (S.A.W) then Mirza becomes the "final prophet" , as well! Mirza says:
I have told so many times that according to the verse: "And others of them.." I am incarnate the last of the Prophets. Twenty years ago Allah named me in Braheen-e-Ahmadia, Muhammad and Ahmad and declared that I am the holy Prophet's (S.A.W) incarnation. (Ek Ghalati Ka Izala, P. 8; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 18; P. 212)
"Blessed is he who has recognized me. Of all the paths to God I am the last path, and of all his Lights, I am the last Light. Unfortunate is he who forsakes me, because without me all is darkness". (Kashti-e-Nooh, P. 56; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 19, P. 61).
Mirza of Qadian Claimed He Was The Best Of The Prophets Of Allah
"Many thrones have descended from heaven but thy throne has been placed the highest". (Tazkirah, 2nd Ed., P. 643)
"The various accomplishments which were bestowed upon all other Prophets were concentrated in a greater degree in the holy Prophet. All those accomplishments have been conferred on me through the holy Prophets reincarnation in me. That is why I bear the names of Adam, Abraham, Moses, Noah, Solomon, Jesus, etc. All the previous Prophets were the incarnations of special attributes of the holy Prophet ,but I am the the reincarnation of all the attributes of the holy Prophet". (Malfoozat-e-Mirza, Vol. 3, P. 270)
Mirza of Qadian Claimed That He Was Superior To Muhammad (S.A.W) :x
The Qadianis believe that Mirza's reincarnation was superior to the Prophets first birth in Mekkah. Mirza says:
One who denies that the ordainment of the Prophet(SAW) is related to the 6th thousand as it was related to the 5th thousand, denies the truth and the mandate of the Quran. The truth is that the spirituality of the (reincarnated) holy Prophet at the end of the 6th thousand (ie these days), is much more stronger, more complete and severe than in those early years. rather it is like the 14th (moonlit) night". (Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah, P. 181; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 16, P. 271-272)
The Simile Of "The New Moon" Used For The Holy Prophet (S.A.W) And That Of "The Full Moon" Used For Mirza
The superiority of the Qadiani incarnation has been expressed in yet another style: viz. During the Mekkan age the holy Prophet (S.A.W), Islam was like the crescent in which there is no light, but in his so-called Qadiani reincarnation, Islam became lighted and illuminated like the full moon. Mirza said:
"And Islam started like the crescent which was destined ultimately to become in the later ages the full moon by the command of God. Thus Allah's wisdom willed that Islam should assume the form of the full moon in that century which should resemble the full moon by way of counting". (Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah, P. 181; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 16, P. 275)
"To declare those who denied the holy Prophet in his first birth as unbelievers and outside the fold of Islam, but to regard the deniers of his second birth as Muslim is an insult to the Prophet and a joke against the signs of Allah, although the promised Masih has in Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah, compared the mutual relation between the first and the second births of the holy Prophet to the relationship between the crescent and the full moon". (Akhbar Al-Fazl, Qadian, Vol. 3, No. 10, dated 15th July 1915 as cited in Qadiani Mazhab, P. 262)
Greater Manifest Victory
In order to express the superiority of Mirza it was claimed that the manifest victory achieved by Mirza was greater then the manifest victory of the holy Prophet (S.A.W). Thus, Mirza said:
"It is apparent that the time of the manifest victory of the era of the holy Prophet has expired, and the second victory which was to be much greater and clearer then the first one had yet to be achieved. It was ordained that its time should fall during the time of the promised Masih". (Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah, P. 193-194; Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 16, P. 288)
So-Called Beginning and Perfection of Mirza's Spiritual Excellence
It was also claimed that the era of the Makkan birth of the holy Prophet (S.A.W) was only the first step in his progress of spiritual attainments, whereas his Qadiani reincarnation represents the highest pinnacle of his spiritual development. Thus it is said:
"The spirituality of our holy Prophet (S.A.W) was conceived 5th thousand (i.e. Mekkan birth) with its precise attributes and that period was not the climax of his spirituality's development. It was rather the first step to the highest pinnacle of its perfection. Thereafter, this spirituality manifested itself in its full glamour during the 6th thousand [his rebirth in Qadian] at the present time". (Khutba-e-llhamiah, P. 177; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 16, P. 266)
The so Called Superior mental Development of Mirza
It is also claimed that the mental development of Mirza of Qadian was superior to that of the holy Prophet (S.A.W). Thus it is said:
"The mental development of the promised Masih (i.e. the Mirza of Qadian) was higher than that of the holy Prophet (S.A.W). And this is only a part of the superiority which the promised Masih has over the holy Prophet. The mental faculties of the holy Prophet could not manifest fully owing to the deficiency of civilization; although the ability existed. They have now manifested themselves fully through the promised Masih by virtue of the advancement of civilization." (Review, May 1929, as cited in Qadiani Mazhab, P. 266, ninth edition, Lahore)
Qadianis Term Reciters of Kalimah of Muhammad (S.A.W) as Kafir(!)
When it is admitted, according to the Qadiani belief, that the Qadiani Mirza is (God forbid) superior to Muhammad of Arabia (S.A.W) in dignity, then it must also be necessary to believe that those who recite the Kalimah of Muhammad (S.A.W) are not Muslims. In other words. the Kalimae Tayyibah, (La Illaha Ill-lah, Muhammadur Rasoolullah), without belief in the Qadiani Mirza, becomes false. Thus it is said:
"The point is now quite clear. If it is 'Kufr' to deny the gracious Prophet it must also be 'Kufr' to deny the promised Masih, because the promised Masih is in no way a separate being from the gracious Prophet; rather he is the same (Muhammad incarnate). If anyone is not deemed a Kafir for denying the promised Masih, then anyone else who denies the gracious Prophet also cannot be considered a Kafir. How is it possible that denying him in his first birth as Prophet should be regarded as Kufr, but denying him in his (reincarnated) second birth as prophet should not be regarded as Kufr, when, as claimed by the promised Masih, his (Mirza's as Muhammad incarnate) spiritual attainment is stronger, complete and severe." (Kalimatul Fasl, P. 146-147, as cited in the Review of Religions, dated March-April 1915).
"Any person who believes in Moses but does not believe in Christ, or believes in Christ but does not believe in Muhammad, or believes in Muhammad but does not believe in the promised Masih, is not only a Kafir, but a 'pakka' (confirmed) Kafir, and (he is) out of the fold of Islam." (Kalimatul Fasl, P. 110, by Mirza Bashir Ahmad, M.A.)
"The Ahmadi movement bears the same relationship to Islam as Christianity bears to Judaism." (Muhammad Ali Lahori Qadiani cited from Mubahasah Rawalpindi, P. 240).
"All such Muslims as did not swear allegiance to the promised Masih (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian), even though they did not hear the name of the promised Masih, are Kafir and debarred from the fold of Islam." (Aiena-e-Sadaqat, P. 35, by Mirza Mahmud Ahmad Qadiani).
"It is incumbent upon us that we should not regard non-Ahmadis as Muslims, nor should we offer prayers behind them, because according to our belief they deny one of the prophets of Allah. This is a matter of faith none has any discretion in this." (Anwar-e-Khilafat, P. 90, by Mahmud Ahmad Qadiani).
The so-called Qadiani Kalimah
It also became necessary in the Qadiani strategy to include the Qadiani Mirza in the meaning of the Qadiani Kalimah: Thus it is said:
"As a result of the birth of the promised Masih (the Qadiani Mirza) a difference has cropped up (in the meaning of the Kalimah). Before the birth of the promised Masih (the Qadiani Mirza) in the world as a prophet, the words (Muhammad ur Rasul Allah) included in their meaning only such prophets as had preceded him; but after the incarnation of the promised Masih (the Qadiani Mirza) in the world as a prophet, one more prophet has been added to the meaning of Muhammad ur Rasul Allah. Therefore on account of the incarnation of the promised Masih the Kalimah, God forbid, does not become abolished; it rather shines more brightly. In short, the same Kalimah is (effective) even now for embracing Islam, with the only difference that the incarnation of the promised Masih (Mirza Qadiani) has added one more prophet to the meaning of Muhammad ur Rasul Allah". (Kalimatul Fasl, P. 158, by Mirza Bashir Ahmad Qadiani).
In short, the Qadiani Religion has retained the same words of the Kalimah, but the Qadiani belief has changed the meaning of the Kalimah. In the Kalimah of the Muslims "Muhammad ur Rasul Allah" means Muhammad of Arabia(SAW), but in the Qadiani Kalimah "Muhammad ur Rasul Allah" means Mirza Qadiani as Muhammad incarnate, reborn in the world as a prophet for the second time. Thus it is said:
"Moreover, even if we accept by supposing the impossible that the sacred name of the gracious Prophet has been included in the sacred Kalimah because he is the last of the Prophets, even then there is no harm and we do not need a new Kalimah because the promised Masih is not a separate entity from the gracious Prophet as he (Mirza) himself says: "My being is exactly the being of Muhammad ur Rasul Allah". Also, "One who discriminates between me and Mustafa has neither recognized me nor seen me". And the reason for this is Allah Almighty's promise that He would reincarnate "Khatam-un-Nabieen" in this world once more as a prophet as is evident from the verse "And others of them"... Thus the promised Masih (Mirza of Qadian) is himself Muhammad ur Rasulullah, who has been incarnated in the world again to spread Islam. We do not, therefore, need any new Kalimah. Albeit, a new Kalimah would have been necessary, if some other person had been reincarnated instead of Muhammad ur Rasul Allah. So contemplate!" (Kalimatul Fasl, P. 158).
Qadiani Belief: Prophethood of Muhammad stands Abrogated and His Kalimah Stands Canceled
A little thought on the above-cited passages makes it quite clear that not only do the Qadianis consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to be a Prophet and Messenger (of Allah) but they also consider Mirza of Qadian a complete incarnation of Muhammad (S.A.W) and, as such, recite his (Mirza's) Kalimah. They consider as Kafirs all those who recite the Kalimah of Muhammad of Arabia (S.A.W). This proves that for the Qadianis the Kalimah of Muhammad of Arabia (S.A.W) stands canceled.
If we look more closely into the issue we shall find that according to the Qadiani belief -- like that of the Bahais -- the period of the Prophethood and Apostleship of Muhammad of Arabia (S.A.W) has expired and it stands repealed for all practical purposes, because, according to the Qadiani belief, the basis of salvation lies in obeying the Qadiani Mirza only. So Mirza said:
"Say to them: if you love God then come and obey me so that God also may love you".
(Mirza Qadiani's "revelation" as cited in Haqiqatul Wahi, P. 79/82, Lahore, 1952; Roohani Khazain. Vol. 22, P. 82. Also see pages 46, 62, 81, 182, 205, 277, 360, 363, 378, 395, 495, 630, 634, in Tazkirah, 2nd Edition).
"In Braheen-e-Ahmadia, God has called me by the name of Ibrahim, as He said: "This means: Salutation on Ibrahim (i.e. this humble man [Mirza]). We truly made friends with him and saved him from every sorrow. And O ye who follow, let the place of Ibrahim's footsteps be the place of your prayers. That is, obey completely so that you may attain salvation." (Arbaeen, Vol. 3, P. 30-31; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 17, P. 420).
"As regards the assertion (verse from Quran regarding Ibrahim), this is a verse of the holy Quran. Here it means: perform your prayers and hold beliefs on the pattern of Ibrahim (i.e. Mirza Qadiani) who has been sent, and mold yourself on his model in every matter". (Arbaeen, Vol. 3, P. 31; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 17, P. 42).
"Similar is the verse (same verse quoted above) which contains a hint that at a time when the Ummat-e-Muhammadia will become divided into many sects, then during the last era, an Ibrahim (i.e. Mirza Qadiani) will be born and out of all the sects, the sect which follows this Ibrahim, (i.e. Mirza!), will be saved". (Arbaeen, Vol. 3, P. 32; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 17, P. 421).
"My teachings contain orders as well as prohibitions and renovation of important injunctions of the Shari'at. For this reason, God has named my teachings and the 'wahi' (revelation) that comes to me as a 'boat. Thus see, God has declared my 'wahi', my teachings and allegiance with me to be Noah's Ark and the basis of salvation for all human beings. Let he who has eyes may see and he who has ears may hear." (Arbaeen, Vol. 4, footnote of P. 6; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 17, P. 435).
Thus obedience to Mirza Qadiani's prophethood, teachings, 'wahi' and his renovated Shari'at is allegedly the only basis for salvation for all mankind. This only means, that the Shari'at of Muhammad of Arabia (S.A.W), his teachings and 'wahi' are no longer the basis of salvation. In other words, Mirza's incarnation has rendered all these useless, suspended and abolished!
The Pre-Mirza Islam is a "Dead Religion"
The above-cited quotations confirm beyond a shadow of doubt that in the opinion of the Qadianis, lslam without the Qadiani Mirza is dead. So it is said:
"Probably in the year 1906, at the proposal of Khwaja Kamaluddin, Moulvi Muhammad Ali entered into an agreement with the Editor of Akhbar-e-Watan to the effect that the Review of Religions would publish no articles about the (Qadiani) sect; it would only publish general articles on Islam and the Editor of the Watan would propagate in his paper for the assistance of the Journal, Review of Religions. The promised Masih disapproved this proposal and it was strongly opposed by the Jama'at also. Hazrat Sahib said: 'Will you present dead Islam before the world by excluding me?"
(Zikr-e-Habib by Mufti Muhammad Sadiq Qadiani, P. 146, First Edition, Qadian).
"We believe that a religion which does not have the chain of prophethood (as in Islam-- Compiler) is a dead religion. We call the religions of the Jews, the Christians and the Hindus dead only because now there are no prophets in them. If this were the position in Islam too, we would be no more than mere story-tellers. Why do we regard it superior to other religions? It must have some distinction". (Malfoozat-e-Mirza, Vol. 10, P. 127).
"During the lifetime of the promised Masih (Mirza Qadiani), at the proposal of Moulvi Muhammad Ali and Khwaja Kamaluddin, the Editor of Akhbar-e-Watan started a fund-collecting scheme in 1905 for the purpose of sending copies of the Review of Religions to foreign countries, on the condition that it should not contain the name of the promised Masih (Mirza Qadiani). But 'hazrate aqdas' (Mirza Qadiani) rejected this proposal saying: Will you present dead Islam by excluding me?' Thereupon, the Editor Watan announced the closure of this fund-collecting scheme".
(Al-Fazl, Qadian, Vol. 16, No. 32, dated 19th October, 1928, as cited in Qadiani Mazhab, P. 461-462).
Qadianis Denounce Islam as a "Cursed, Satanic, and Contemptible Religion"
According to the Qadiani belief, the Religion of Islam, without the prophethood of Mirza Qadiani, is only a 'collection of tales', it is a 'cursed, satanic and contemptible religion'.
"That religion is no religion and that prophet is no prophet by following whom a man does not come so close to God as to be honored with divine conversation (i.e. Prophethood - Compiler). That religion is cursed and contemptible which teaches that human progress depends only on a few narrated anecdotes (i.e. the Shari'at-e-Muhammadia which is narrated from the holy Prophet (S.A.W) - Compiler) and that the 'wahi' has lagged behind instead of going ahead ........ Hence such a religion deserves to be called satanic rather than divine." (i.e. Islam of the holy Prophet(SAW) is, God forbid, Satanic - Translator). (Zamima-e-Braheen-e-Ahmadia, Part V, P. 138-139; Roohani Khazain, Vol. 21, P. 306).
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Guest
Taul! don't be aggressive. Again I think you did not read the words of Hazoor(SA) I am again writing his(sa) hadith here and let me know if you cannot read urdu or arabic I will translate it in english.
Rasool(sa) is clearly not giving you any right to call anybody non-muslim if he claim to be a muslim. Even you think his fath is not according to Islam
By calling any Muslim to a non-muslim you claims to have better knowlege (nauzbullah) than Hazoor(SalaAllah Aleh Wasalam). Is it your Islam???
Now about claims of Mirza Sahib(as). He never means he is better(nauzbillh) than Hazoor(sa) We give him the same status as given by Hazoor(sa). We even cannot think he is equal(nauzbillah) to Rasool(sa) by any means. Instead he claimed to be a lowest level servant of his aall (family). After reading his following persian poetry noboday can say he ever claimed to be superior or even(nauzbiAllal) equal to Muhammad(S.A.W)
I don't know how I translate these beutiful words in english, but I will try.
He said I am giving my life and heart to the beauty of Mohammad (s.a.w) and my ash is devoted to homeland of family of Mohammad(s.a.w)
You are saying Mirza sahib Or we(Ahmadis) thought he was prior or nausbillah equal to Mohammad(saw) and you will call Kaafir (nauzbilAllah) the person who saying like that??? A kaafir can say these words. if you have heart and you know what love is you will never say a lover of Prophet(s.a.w) to kaafir(nauzbillah) again especially even Hazoor(sa) said you can't say to any Muslim to Kaafir unless he claims to be.
Now I am here qouting your statement regarding Imam Mehdi (as) signs by Rasool(SA).
Why you are giving same name to mehdi??? Now I tell you what is logic behind the same name is. Giving name by Muhammad(SA) means to continuing his teachings. Mehdi(as) will spread the true message of Hazrat Muhammad(SA) . Prophecies by All Prophet of Allah are mostly in metaphoric language. As it is clear by your two statements in same post
You wrote under signs of Mehdi(as)
Now please answer if he will appear just a day befor judgment how he will rule seven years on arabs.
There is no problem for me to explain why I consider Mirza Sahib(AS) same Imam Mehdi promised by Hazoor(SA). I am 100% convinced about his claim. I would like to answer your arguments if you write them one by one in a special thread not here.
But still problem is not if you consider us Muslim or Not. Problem is how come you justify persecution against a relegious community on just based on their faith
If you can justify persecution against Ahmadis then I think Swiss have many more valid reasons to justify ban of minarats even I hope their most of the civilized population will condemn this action.
Rasool(sa) is clearly not giving you any right to call anybody non-muslim if he claim to be a muslim. Even you think his fath is not according to Islam
By calling any Muslim to a non-muslim you claims to have better knowlege (nauzbullah) than Hazoor(SalaAllah Aleh Wasalam). Is it your Islam???
Now about claims of Mirza Sahib(as). He never means he is better(nauzbillh) than Hazoor(sa) We give him the same status as given by Hazoor(sa). We even cannot think he is equal(nauzbillah) to Rasool(sa) by any means. Instead he claimed to be a lowest level servant of his aall (family). After reading his following persian poetry noboday can say he ever claimed to be superior or even(nauzbiAllal) equal to Muhammad(S.A.W)
I don't know how I translate these beutiful words in english, but I will try.
He said I am giving my life and heart to the beauty of Mohammad (s.a.w) and my ash is devoted to homeland of family of Mohammad(s.a.w)
You are saying Mirza sahib Or we(Ahmadis) thought he was prior or nausbillah equal to Mohammad(saw) and you will call Kaafir (nauzbilAllah) the person who saying like that??? A kaafir can say these words. if you have heart and you know what love is you will never say a lover of Prophet(s.a.w) to kaafir(nauzbillah) again especially even Hazoor(sa) said you can't say to any Muslim to Kaafir unless he claims to be.
Now I am here qouting your statement regarding Imam Mehdi (as) signs by Rasool(SA).
taul said:
Why you are giving same name to mehdi??? Now I tell you what is logic behind the same name is. Giving name by Muhammad(SA) means to continuing his teachings. Mehdi(as) will spread the true message of Hazrat Muhammad(SA) . Prophecies by All Prophet of Allah are mostly in metaphoric language. As it is clear by your two statements in same post
You wrote under signs of Mehdi(as)
taul said:
taul said:
Now please answer if he will appear just a day befor judgment how he will rule seven years on arabs.
There is no problem for me to explain why I consider Mirza Sahib(AS) same Imam Mehdi promised by Hazoor(SA). I am 100% convinced about his claim. I would like to answer your arguments if you write them one by one in a special thread not here.
But still problem is not if you consider us Muslim or Not. Problem is how come you justify persecution against a relegious community on just based on their faith
If you can justify persecution against Ahmadis then I think Swiss have many more valid reasons to justify ban of minarats even I hope their most of the civilized population will condemn this action.
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Guest
Guest
Taul! you are lying again and again about my faith. It is not you who will decide what my fath is. Do you know the meaning of faith??? My faith means my thoughts for a specific thing or topic. if I express my thoughts nobody can say my thoughts are not, what I am saying. Unbelievable! how non-sense you are? what I express is my faith. what you express is your faith. Come to the point Don't fight with me on this cheap topic please.
You should love your constitution which is still not sure about who is supreme power of Pakistan. And this (stupid constitution) claims to be having more knowledge(nauzbillah) than Mohammad(sa) about who is Muslim, who is Not???. I want to say much more but.....
You should love your constitution which is still not sure about who is supreme power of Pakistan. And this (stupid constitution) claims to be having more knowledge(nauzbillah) than Mohammad(sa) about who is Muslim, who is Not???. I want to say much more but.....
taul
Siasat.pk - Blogger
@ ab
---Have you even read mirza's own books,all the references are given if ya'll Qadiyanis deny it then either you are NOT informed or else you Purposely and deliberately want to hide these blasphemic claims by the founder of your religion "Qadiyanism"... :ugeek:
--Do you flatly deny all of them..Just Answer plain and simple:Yes or No?? :ugeek:
--Remember:Ya'll can run but can NOT hide
-As per my claim "Just before day of Judgment" you literally have to dig in deep to your intellect since this means "close to day of Judgment" :) ..you had to be extremely brain dead NOT to get it which by looking at ya'll blind following folks it surely appears so :D..you are running dry with your insane and absurd thinking :P
---Have you even read mirza's own books,all the references are given if ya'll Qadiyanis deny it then either you are NOT informed or else you Purposely and deliberately want to hide these blasphemic claims by the founder of your religion "Qadiyanism"... :ugeek:
--Do you flatly deny all of them..Just Answer plain and simple:Yes or No?? :ugeek:
--Remember:Ya'll can run but can NOT hide
-As per my claim "Just before day of Judgment" you literally have to dig in deep to your intellect since this means "close to day of Judgment" :) ..you had to be extremely brain dead NOT to get it which by looking at ya'll blind following folks it surely appears so :D..you are running dry with your insane and absurd thinking :P
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Guest
Guest
I already thoroughly explained to you what he meant by his sayings. anyway whatever you think his means is......you don't have any right............again. read back what Rasool(S.A.W) said about your Fatwas. Do you have any answer to Hazoor(S.A.W) Fatwa???? you accept his(SA) fatwa or not. tell me Yes or No???
taul
Siasat.pk - Blogger
@ ab
---It proves you are denying your own founder,you aren't even looking at his own blabbing...Either you are right or him :ugeek: Do you deny and condemn what i wrote earlier the claims by mirza :roll:
---Every word of our Holy Quran and Hadeeth is True and nothing can be Quoted or said "Without Context" :D and hadith about Apostate holds true as mentioned earlier in the other post along with zandeeq :ugeek:
---It proves you are denying your own founder,you aren't even looking at his own blabbing...Either you are right or him :ugeek: Do you deny and condemn what i wrote earlier the claims by mirza :roll:
---Every word of our Holy Quran and Hadeeth is True and nothing can be Quoted or said "Without Context" :D and hadith about Apostate holds true as mentioned earlier in the other post along with zandeeq :ugeek:
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Guest
Guest
taul said:
You answered it right, Just I was waiting your answer. because I know you always denies my comments. And that is why I was saying Prophecies of Prophets of Allah are mostly in metaphoric language. we always need to translate them according to comparisons of their other teachings or sayings. Otherewise there are contradictions in meanings.
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Guest
Guest
Ok you don't want to come on point. I will say again I have no concern if you consider us(Ahmadis) muslim or not, Let me close my discussion here with you.
After writing this all and fatwas of Hazoor(SalaAllah) If still you or anybody else think you have a right to ban/destroy Ahmadi's mosques then Swiss have more rights to ban your minarats in their homeland.
Another video I just found on youtube. Must watch it and then think about Swiss poll. :shock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a153g5Srxn0
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a153g5Srxn0[/video]
After writing this all and fatwas of Hazoor(SalaAllah) If still you or anybody else think you have a right to ban/destroy Ahmadi's mosques then Swiss have more rights to ban your minarats in their homeland.
Another video I just found on youtube. Must watch it and then think about Swiss poll. :shock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a153g5Srxn0
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a153g5Srxn0[/video]
