I don't know what school did you go khan sahab but wikipedia is not a credible source. Anyone can amend it and put his own information on it. Even if we consider everything true whats written on wikipedia, you think this plan to launch him was prepared in 2 months time? it was a long term planning just like MI5 agent which was recruited in Al Qaeda and he spent 13 years of his life with Al qaeda. These are long term strategies prepared long time ago and been worked on. Ankhain band kar ke khalifa maan kar kisi ke bhi pichay chalne ka matlab yeh nahi ke aap patriotic muslim ho, uska matlab yeh hai ke aap beaqal aur bewakoof muslim ho. go check liveleaks and wikileaks which is much credible source instead of wikipedia
Simon Elliot, aka Al-Baghdadi, son of Jewish parents, French Report ISIL Leader Mossad Agent
- Thread starter Londonguy
- Start date
I don't know what school did you go khan sahab but wikipedia is not a credible source. Anyone can amend it and put his own information on it. Even if we consider everything true whats written on wikipedia, you think this plan to launch him was prepared in 2 months time? it was a long term planning just like MI5 agent which was recruited in Al Qaeda and he spent 13 years of his life with Al qaeda. These are long term strategies prepared long time ago and been worked on. Ankhain band kar ke khalifa maan kar kisi ke bhi pichay chalne ka matlab yeh nahi ke aap patriotic muslim ho, uska matlab yeh hai ke aap beaqal aur bewakoof muslim ho. go check liveleaks and wikileaks which is much credible source instead of wikipedia
Londonguy
Senator (1k+ posts)
Bergner said al-Mashhadani had told interrogators that al-Baghdadi is a
"fictional role" created by al-Masri and that an actor is used for audio
recordings of speeches posted on the Web.
"In his words, the Islamic State of Iraq is a front organization that
masks the foreign influence and leadership within al-Qaida in Iraq in an
attempt to put an Iraqi face on the leadership of al-Qaida in Iraq,"
Bergner said.
Wikileaks
"fictional role" created by al-Masri and that an actor is used for audio
recordings of speeches posted on the Web.
"In his words, the Islamic State of Iraq is a front organization that
masks the foreign influence and leadership within al-Qaida in Iraq in an
attempt to put an Iraqi face on the leadership of al-Qaida in Iraq,"
Bergner said.
Wikileaks
karachiwala
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Not sure why the west is hell bent on trying to out someone who is supposedly their own? The more people come up with lies the more one is lead to believe that there is something fishy about this whole outing. I am still not sure what ISIS really is but this all making me believe there must be something good about them why else is everyone trying to prove him a jewish agent? You guys had no idea about Sisi but for Al Baghdadi even jews are trying to say his is their agent and openly so. If you do not smell a rat here then you might as well see a doctor.
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Nobody knows who Bagdadi is, nobody knows where he came from. Nobody knows what he was doing before 2003. Smell a rat here no? All Agents enter the arena at some point and nobody knows their past before that point.
muntazir
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Toon vi mosad da hi agent aaen teri bhi khair naheen toon yeh bata sub kuch choor ker key teri pehli id konsi thii? Darust jawab dena ho ga agar toon waqai hii khlafat ka shora hai too.
Zoq_Elia
Senator (1k+ posts)
KhanHaripur See the Strength of your Logic and Reference. Care fully See The scan of your Wikipedia referral page and Look at four points marked by me.
And answer what are these??????
Khan Haripur kia tum waqai itney baray jahil ho ka wikipedia ki postings per atbar kar rehai ho aur is posting ke zara top line to parho jis per likha hay "The neutrality of this article is disputed." Aur wikipedia koi sahifa nehin hay yeah koi bhee apne ap ko register kar ka likh sakta hay aur agar dispute hoga to koi dusra us ke correction bhee kar sakta hay. Jab aqal kam ho to kam bolna chaia aur is web ke surat mea kam likhna chaia.
Londonguy
Senator (1k+ posts)
KhanHaripur See the Strength of your Logic and Reference. Care fully See The scan of your Wikipedia referral page and Look at four points marked by me.
And answer what are these??????
Sadly Wiki is the ONLY proof they have that Baghdadi is actually a real person,.........
Our friend Mr Haripur tells us we can just go to Samara and everyone knows who he is
Except there is not so much as a quote, a vid or any other evidence from a SINGLE resident of Samara confirming that Baghdadi ever even went there Not a Nimazi or a student or scholar who confirms they can vouch that what is said about Baghdadi is true
PS there are other references that he is from Fallujah........... but the same problem no one there knows him either
Check this out
Bergner said al-Mashhadani had told interrogators that al-Baghdadi is a
"fictional role" created by al-Masri and that an actor is used for audio
recordings of speeches posted on the Web.
"In his words, the Islamic State of Iraq is a front organization that
masks the foreign influence and leadership within al-Qaida in Iraq in an
attempt to put an Iraqi face on the leadership of al-Qaida in Iraq,"
Bergner said.
Wikileaks
"People of Samarra know him & his family he was a Cleric in Ahmad ibn Hanbal Mosque in Samarra even before America Invaded Iraq and holder of Master's degree and a PhD in Islamic studies from the University of Islamic Sciences in the Baghdad."
PLEASE GIVE US A SINGLE BIT OF EVIDENCE CONFIRMING ALL OR ANY PART OF THAT
Last edited:
Londonguy
Senator (1k+ posts)
[h=1]Why Al Baghdadi and his ‘state’ will fail[/h]The Isil chief’s short record, which is about 10 days old, is far more complicated because no respectable religious entity has backed him
Although Hashemite rulers traced their roots to the Quraish tribe that gave the Muslim world Prophet Mohammad (PBUH), no Hashemite absconded the title of Caliph, even if the Prohet’s first four successors — Abu Bakr, Umar Ibn Al Khattab, Uthman Ibn Affan and Ali Ibn Abi Talib — demonstrated strong leadership qualities. Few future Caliphs made outrageous claims like Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi. The latest self-proclaimed “caliph’s” willingness to pilfer the political title, and his readiness to maim and kill those who stood in his way, were little more than futile efforts to secure power. What were his chances to be accepted as a Caliph?
Over the years, many frowned upon various titles, including the overused “Amir Al Mu’minin” (commander of the faithful). Various Moroccan dynasties, including current Alaouite rulers, kept the Amir Al Mu’minin title but shunned that of Caliph. Ebrahim Awad Ebrahim Ali Al Badri Al Samarra’i — formerly also known as Dr Ebrahim, on account of his doctorate in Islamic studies from the University of Islamic Sciences in Iraq, and better known by his nom de guerre Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi — now claims that he is a descendant of the Prophet (PBUH). As if this assertion was not sufficient, he recently added “Al Hussaini Al Quraishi” to his full name and — let it be known — he ought to also be called as the Amir Al Muminin. Still, his preferred title is “Caliph Ebrahim” in the territory that the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) has taken control of in northeastern Syria and western Iraq. Yet, and perhaps because he did not wish to limit his political conquest to merely these two countries, Al Baghdadi ordered a name change for his militia, from Isil to the geographically more ambitious “Islamic State”. Apparent modesty aside, Al Baghdadi wished to fill a vacancy left by the last Ottoman Sultan Abdul Majid II, who was ousted by Kemal Ataturk in 1924.
Although a holder of a doctorate in Islamic studies, what Al Baghdadi did not recall was the way various Caliphs met their fates, starting with the struggle that pitted the Shiite Fatamid Empire in Egypt against the Sunni Abbasid Caliphate in Iraq. The Abbasids under the Caliph Ma’mum (r. 813-833) and his brother and successor Al Muatism (r. 833-842), created a loyal army mostly composed of non-Arabs who were known as the Mamluks, ostensibly to protect the empire. In the event, the Mamluk army could not deliver, as Baghdad fell in 1258 and the last Abbasid Caliph perished at the hands of the Mongol ruler Hulagu. It was then that the Mamluks took power in Egypt as they sought, starting in 1261, to re-establish the ‘Abbasid Caliphate in Cairo. Significantly weakened, the Abbasid caliphs in Egypt — from Al Mustansir (r. 1261-1662) to Al Mutawakkil III (5. 1508-1517)— gradually conceded their political authority. With the rise of the Ottomans, Al Mutawakkil surrendered to Sultan Salim I, who became the new Caliph. Various disputes between the Ottomans and the Mughals in India meant fresh clashes amongst savvy men anxious to don the title and secure legitimising features. Interestingly, Mughal emperor Akbar [whose legendary Hindu wife Jodha became even more famous], declared himself “Khalifat Al Zaman” (caliph of the time) in 1579, a title that his successors kept until 1858, when Bahadur Shah Zafar, the last Mughal, was unceremoniously packed off by British authorities into exile. Sultan Abdul Majid II ended his days on the French Cote d’Azur.
Providing stability
What Al Baghdadi wished to do was to replace the last fallen Caliph, though the Egyptian revivalist party Hizb ul-Tahrir, which was created in 1953 as a Sunni Muslim organisation in Jerusalem by a renowned Palestinian scholar/judge, Taqi Al Din Al Nabhani, beat him to it. Al Nabhani believed that only a Caliph could provide stability and security although he was opposed to persecuting non-Muslims. The Palestinian wished to apply Sharia, but only on Muslims. He was an anti-Zionist without being an anti-Semite and while Al Nabhani considered Israel to be an illegal entity, his was a political rejection, not a religious crusade.
Al Baghdadi’s short record was far more complicated because no respectable religious entities backed him. Al Azhar University scholars kept silent and the “ulama” (religious authorities) from other leading institutions played for time. The mere fact that few offered any comments on Al Baghdadi illustrated how he was perceived and, perhaps equally important, how most understood that clerics no longer occupied critical roles in the decision-making process. Of course, this did not mean that theocratic figures were not relevant to Arab and Muslim polities. Rather, few Muslims were ready to back extremist pronouncements, preferring participatory systems. Many wished to live in peace and work to create wealth.
Ironically, when Al Baghdadi spoke last week in a Mosul mosque, many noticed his shining and presumably expensive watch. His chances of being accepted as the latest were truly remote.
Dr Joseph A. Kechichian is the author of Legal and Political Reforms in Saudi Arabia (London: Routledge, 2013).
- By Joseph A. Kechichian | Senior Writer
- Published: 20:00 July 16, 2014
Although Hashemite rulers traced their roots to the Quraish tribe that gave the Muslim world Prophet Mohammad (PBUH), no Hashemite absconded the title of Caliph, even if the Prohet’s first four successors — Abu Bakr, Umar Ibn Al Khattab, Uthman Ibn Affan and Ali Ibn Abi Talib — demonstrated strong leadership qualities. Few future Caliphs made outrageous claims like Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi. The latest self-proclaimed “caliph’s” willingness to pilfer the political title, and his readiness to maim and kill those who stood in his way, were little more than futile efforts to secure power. What were his chances to be accepted as a Caliph?
Over the years, many frowned upon various titles, including the overused “Amir Al Mu’minin” (commander of the faithful). Various Moroccan dynasties, including current Alaouite rulers, kept the Amir Al Mu’minin title but shunned that of Caliph. Ebrahim Awad Ebrahim Ali Al Badri Al Samarra’i — formerly also known as Dr Ebrahim, on account of his doctorate in Islamic studies from the University of Islamic Sciences in Iraq, and better known by his nom de guerre Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi — now claims that he is a descendant of the Prophet (PBUH). As if this assertion was not sufficient, he recently added “Al Hussaini Al Quraishi” to his full name and — let it be known — he ought to also be called as the Amir Al Muminin. Still, his preferred title is “Caliph Ebrahim” in the territory that the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) has taken control of in northeastern Syria and western Iraq. Yet, and perhaps because he did not wish to limit his political conquest to merely these two countries, Al Baghdadi ordered a name change for his militia, from Isil to the geographically more ambitious “Islamic State”. Apparent modesty aside, Al Baghdadi wished to fill a vacancy left by the last Ottoman Sultan Abdul Majid II, who was ousted by Kemal Ataturk in 1924.
Although a holder of a doctorate in Islamic studies, what Al Baghdadi did not recall was the way various Caliphs met their fates, starting with the struggle that pitted the Shiite Fatamid Empire in Egypt against the Sunni Abbasid Caliphate in Iraq. The Abbasids under the Caliph Ma’mum (r. 813-833) and his brother and successor Al Muatism (r. 833-842), created a loyal army mostly composed of non-Arabs who were known as the Mamluks, ostensibly to protect the empire. In the event, the Mamluk army could not deliver, as Baghdad fell in 1258 and the last Abbasid Caliph perished at the hands of the Mongol ruler Hulagu. It was then that the Mamluks took power in Egypt as they sought, starting in 1261, to re-establish the ‘Abbasid Caliphate in Cairo. Significantly weakened, the Abbasid caliphs in Egypt — from Al Mustansir (r. 1261-1662) to Al Mutawakkil III (5. 1508-1517)— gradually conceded their political authority. With the rise of the Ottomans, Al Mutawakkil surrendered to Sultan Salim I, who became the new Caliph. Various disputes between the Ottomans and the Mughals in India meant fresh clashes amongst savvy men anxious to don the title and secure legitimising features. Interestingly, Mughal emperor Akbar [whose legendary Hindu wife Jodha became even more famous], declared himself “Khalifat Al Zaman” (caliph of the time) in 1579, a title that his successors kept until 1858, when Bahadur Shah Zafar, the last Mughal, was unceremoniously packed off by British authorities into exile. Sultan Abdul Majid II ended his days on the French Cote d’Azur.
Providing stability
What Al Baghdadi wished to do was to replace the last fallen Caliph, though the Egyptian revivalist party Hizb ul-Tahrir, which was created in 1953 as a Sunni Muslim organisation in Jerusalem by a renowned Palestinian scholar/judge, Taqi Al Din Al Nabhani, beat him to it. Al Nabhani believed that only a Caliph could provide stability and security although he was opposed to persecuting non-Muslims. The Palestinian wished to apply Sharia, but only on Muslims. He was an anti-Zionist without being an anti-Semite and while Al Nabhani considered Israel to be an illegal entity, his was a political rejection, not a religious crusade.
Al Baghdadi’s short record was far more complicated because no respectable religious entities backed him. Al Azhar University scholars kept silent and the “ulama” (religious authorities) from other leading institutions played for time. The mere fact that few offered any comments on Al Baghdadi illustrated how he was perceived and, perhaps equally important, how most understood that clerics no longer occupied critical roles in the decision-making process. Of course, this did not mean that theocratic figures were not relevant to Arab and Muslim polities. Rather, few Muslims were ready to back extremist pronouncements, preferring participatory systems. Many wished to live in peace and work to create wealth.
Ironically, when Al Baghdadi spoke last week in a Mosul mosque, many noticed his shining and presumably expensive watch. His chances of being accepted as the latest were truly remote.
Dr Joseph A. Kechichian is the author of Legal and Political Reforms in Saudi Arabia (London: Routledge, 2013).
