Sheikh Umar Ibrahim Vadillo to give a speech on RIBA in Lahore on July 8th at 4:30 - Please share

barhaich

Senator (1k+ posts)
been enjoying your comments. lekin i feel ur throwing the baby out with the bath water here.

Paper currency is not the problem. Its fiscal deficits and Central Bank borrowing . Thats the root problem.. Not paper currency. Control the quantity and paper currency can have more value than gold...

Fiscal deficit is more like a political problem. I was only refuting indigo's claims about interest being good and stuff.

Yes, in textbook style analysis, paper money is not a problem, but bro in the real world; over-printing paper money is the key ingredient to our deficits.

All third world economies over-print cash leading to further deficit the economy.

In reality the bank note can never match real gold commodities.

In reality my friend, paper money is just a promise to get paid.
 

barhaich

Senator (1k+ posts)
Not a single question is answered :13:

You were saying interest was good for the economy, and now you are bringing in Islam, what are you trying to prove man?


I think I did clear your mind on how interest was not good for an economy.
[MENTION=24375]AsifAmeer[/MENTION]
 

indigo

Siasat.pk - Blogger
You were saying interest was good for the economy, and now you are bringing in Islam, what are you trying to prove man?

Don't you put your words in my mouth, I said Interest can be good for economy and I stand by it... I always said its more a moral hazard in Islam rather than because of incentive, profits or losses go through my comments i'm always putting Islam in my every post...

And again inequality system is a moral evil...
 

ricky12

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Sood+Haraam+Hai+%2528Sureh-Al-Bakara+Ayat+275%2529.gif
 

jahanzaibi

Senator (1k+ posts)
O bahi jaab kuch pata nahi hay to shoor kion macha raha hay.. aik bar apni galat ray day di aur usay jaab expert @barhaich nay thik kar dia to choop kar ja
sud sud hota hay . chahay nuksan ponchay ya na ponchay...


Not a single question is answered :13:

Mr Genius, inflation or paper money Hazoor saw ka zamanae me kaha thi, Lets go back at the times of Prophet pbuh

now answer the same questions, or again chicken out because in reality you cant go back at the times of prophet pbuh [hilar]
 

indigo

Siasat.pk - Blogger
O bahi jaab kuch pata nahi hay to shoor kion macha raha hay.. aik bar apni galat ray day di aur usay jaab expert @barhaich nay thik kar dia to choop kar ja
sud sud hota hay . chahay nuksan ponchay ya na ponchay...

kiya aap ko meri baat samajah aai hai? Me sirae se yehi keh raha hu keh Sood khana haram hai... ab aap ko kiya masla hai? Barhaich jo marzi kahae me apni baat kahon ga
 

ambroxo

Minister (2k+ posts)
[MENTION=24375]AsifAmeer[/MENTION]
[h=2]Sheikh Umar Ibrahim is brother of Sheikh Rasheed ?[/h]
 

ricky12

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
O bahi jaab kuch pata nahi hay to shoor kion macha raha hay.. aik bar apni galat ray day di aur usay jaab expert @barhaich nay thik kar dia to choop kar ja
sud sud hota hay . chahay nuksan ponchay ya na ponchay...

Sahi kaha sood sood hota hay ,chahay nuksan ponchay na ya ponchay. you are 1000% right [MENTION=19726]jahanzaibi[/MENTION]
 

AsifAmeer

Siasat.pk - Blogger
fiscal deficit is THE problem. Eak kaam kero, read this
http://blogs.thenews.com.pk/blogs/2012/01/31/understanding-inflation-%E2%80%93-our-core-problem/

Fiscal deficit and deficit spending build structural deficits in the economy by rendering money as a useless price-signaling mechanism. Structural deficits creates balance of payment issues.

Aur tum ALMOST sahi keh rahay ho... Debt money, not paper money, is just a promise to get paid. There's a slight difference. Today most of the paper money IS debt money. Lekin what we call the GREENBACK dollar notes is paper money and not debt money. Debt money is issued by the State's Central Bank which the central bank charges interest on. So those NOTES (wonder why its called "NOTE"?) u carry in your pocket, have a built-in mechanism of depreciation to accommodate the interest incurred on the note you are carrying. Usually the depreciation correlates to the discount rate set by the central bank.

Acha.. the other thing you said about Gold. Yaar this is another myth that Gold has an intrinsic value. No it doesnt. Eak kaam kero. Just read the first para of my article.
http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/10374/how-the-mighty-dollar-weakens-the-rupee/

See that? Gold holds no value if there is nothing to be bought in the economy.
Fiscal deficit is more like a political problem. I was only refuting indigo's claims about interest being good and stuff.

Yes, in textbook style analysis, paper money is not a problem, but bro in the real world; over-printing paper money is the key ingredient to our deficits.

All third world economies over-print cash leading to further deficit the economy.

In reality the bank note can never match real gold commodities.

In reality my friend, paper money is just a promise to get paid.
 

AsifAmeer

Siasat.pk - Blogger
You were saying interest was good for the economy, and now you are bringing in Islam, what are you trying to prove man?


I think I did clear your mind on how interest was not good for an economy.
@AsifAmeer

Don't you put your words in my mouth, I said Interest can be good for economy and I stand by it... I always said its more a moral hazard in Islam rather than because of incentive, profits or losses go through my comments i'm always putting Islam in my every post...

And again inequality system is a moral evil...


I hope you change your stand. Financially speaking, interest is future profits booked in present. Its called "discounted notes". I mean u have Notes discounted by 30 years! Show me 1 business that has made same amount of profits for 30 years! Yet every mortgage (which isnt even an investment but a liability) is booked with 30yr profit at present. These delusions distort our decision-making process and risk is built up in the system.
 

Wadaich

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)



Beta,

This Latin phrase you used is the delusion, it is delusional economics.

Let me explain simply that in the real world there is nothing which is constant, nothing at all.

Not even the value of money. And when this comes to loans, unstable markets lead our precious loan taking entity(country) to draw further loans,

which in turn limits the true economic potential of the entity leading to economic deficiencies like the recession-cycle.

In reality this naive phrase of your's is total BS.

Yes, if everything is stable then there is a possibility of economic growth because only then, and not in any other stituation, our economic entity has a good (or some) chance of knitting in with other entities for prosperity.

Which shows that interest is nothing more than an incentive for investment or an encouragement for interaction in the modern market, however, it in turn actually sickens and destroys the economy of any scale.


'Ceteris Paribus' has no connection to the real world, it's just a mathematical philosophy which was used to quickly assess extremely short term
economic activities (like days or few instances), and it even failed at that.

Therefore you should not act like some wannabe, telling people things you do not know crap about.

Interest kills any involved entity's economic cycle-- period

@wadaich

At the age of Prophet saw, there was no paper money, no inflation there was simple trading...

Was Prophet saw forbidding paper money because it was the reason for inflation? As Inflation is an invention of interest?

Or was Prophet saw forbidding interest because it is a moral evil and zulm on borrower for he can't payback due to loss or his financial conditions...?

Those who thinks Interest is always bad for Economy, should know its not true, taking interest is actually a moral evil.

Brothers! :alhamd: we all are Muslims and discussing the merits and demerits of Riba/interest. I would ask some very simple questions in connection thereof:

1. Can any one on the face of this earth have ever been or be more wiser than Allah (SWT)?
2. Is there any room for debate in those Ayat of Qura'an which come under the definition of "Muhkamaat"? (There could be some debate to understand the Ayat which come under the definition of "Muta' Shabihaat" the true meaning of which is only known by Allah (SWT)).
3. Is there any doubt or room for debate over Allah (SWT) verdict and Nabi-e-Pak pbuh guidance about Riba. (see the verse from holy quran quoted by @ricky post#14 Ayat from Surah Mubarakah "Baqarah")?
4. Who among us is ready to take arms Allah (SWT) and Nabi-e-Pak pbuh?
 

ricky12

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Brothers! :alhamd: we all are Muslims and discussing the merits and demerits of Riba/interest. I would ask some very simple questions in connection thereof:

1. Can any one on the face of this earth have ever been or be more wiser than Allah (SWT)?
2. Is there any room for debate in those Ayat of Qura'an which come under the definition of "Muhkamaat"? (There could be some debate to understand the Ayat which come under the definition of "Muta' Shabihaat" the true meaning of which is only known by Allah (SWT)).
3. Is there any doubt or room for debate over Allah (SWT) verdict and Nabi-e-Pak pbuh guidance about Riba. (see the verse from holy quran quoted by @ricky post#14 Ayat from Surah Mubarakah "Baqarah")?
4. Who among us is ready to take arms Allah (SWT) and Nabi-e-Pak pbuh?
@wadaich @barhaich @jahanzaibi @ambroxo [MENTION=24375]AsifAmeer[/MENTION]

Ab main saaf saaf baat karo ga indigo ghamdi fitna ka pairokar karo hai is forum pe aap us ki threads dekh saktey hain,aur bakol ghamdi fitna k sood dena halal(jaiz) hai aur sood lena haram ,jab kay Islam main sood lena aur dena dono haram hai .is video main proof dekh saktey hain aap k ghamdi SOOD(riba) denay ko halal/jaiz bata raha hai.






ab ye threads dekhain indigo ki ghamdi wali:

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...i-TAX-or-ZAKAT-Must-Watch&p=907494#post907494




http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...ent-(Hadees)-with-Prophet-(saw)-Javed-Ghamidi


jis se saaf wazeh ho gaya k indigo idhar ghamdi fitna k akaaid phela raha hai, and ghamdi is pro qadiyani or may be qadiyani.
 
Last edited:

ricky12

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
^^ aur ghamdi fitna k ye akaaid bhi hain:

He rejects :
1. Any form of Had (Prescribed Punishment),
2. Hadith to be direct
3. Nazool Eesa Alahi Salam and his Life (like Qadiyanis)
4. Had for an Apostate (Murtad)
5. Claims the 7 recitations of quran to be wrong (he is a close ally and aide of Daniel Pipes and Robert Spencer)
6. Music and Dancing of all sorts is permissible
7. Jihad against oppression is the only jihad allowed
8. The Shahadat of a man and woman are equal
9. There is no concept of Purdah (Hijab / Veil) in Islam
 

AsifAmeer

Siasat.pk - Blogger
[MENTION=10641]wadaich[/MENTION] [MENTION=8314]barhaich[/MENTION] [MENTION=19726]jahanzaibi[/MENTION] [MENTION=23748]ambroxo[/MENTION]

Guys, I have listened to Ghamidi. There is no doubt that he is a great intellect. He does understand the depth of issues. He does. Lekin what has made me uncomfortable is his stand on religious affairs. Like you dont need a Mehrum for Haj. Its a social issue and I have no opinion on this. Lekin I having a Mehrum for hajj keeps a social structure intact for Islamic culture. Just like Zakat on GOLD/SILVER paid in GOLD and SILVER. Almost all Ulema have drifted away from this key financial aspect of Zakat. Dekho kiya huwa ab. Ulema tried to be modern and lost their identity. Now they arent even capable of understanding that Ulema have completely lost it on Financial matters. Heck, they have even legalized banking... Listen to Sheikh Vadilla. He almost gets it..

Lekin mein kahoun.. suno sab ki... Kero wo jis baat par dil thukta hai. Dekho, an Aalim can be right on many things but he could be wrong on a few. That doesnt mean we should discard everything that he says. About Ghamidi, hisab ulta hai.. he doesnt sound right on alot of things, lekin ho sakta hai in ki kuch baatein theek houn.. Listen, understand and then make up your mind. "Name-calling" is just a noise. It serves no purpose.





@wadaich @barhaich @jahanzaibi @ambroxo @AsifAmeer

Ab main saaf saaf baat karo ga indigo ghamdi fitna ka pairokar karo hai is forum pe aap us ki threads dekh saktey hain,aur bakol ghamdi fitna k sood dena halal(jaiz) hai aur sood lena haram ,jab kay Islam main sood lena aur dena dono haram hai .is video main proof dekh saktey hain aap k ghamdi SOOD(riba) denay ko halal/jaiz bata raha hai.






ab ye threads dekhain indigo ki ghamdi wali:

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...i-TAX-or-ZAKAT-Must-Watch&p=907494#post907494




http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...ent-(Hadees)-with-Prophet-(saw)-Javed-Ghamidi


jis se saaf wazeh ho gaya k indigo idhar ghamdi fitna k akaaid phela raha hai, and ghamdi is pro qadiyani or may be qadiyani.
 

Wadaich

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
But brother we must remember that any issue on which clear cut guidance from Quran & Sunnah pbuh is available....is closed for debate.
 

barhaich

Senator (1k+ posts)
fiscal deficit is THE problem. Eak kaam kero, read this
http://blogs.thenews.com.pk/blogs/2012/01/31/understanding-inflation-%E2%80%93-our-core-problem/

Fiscal deficit and deficit spending build structural deficits in the economy by rendering money as a useless price-signaling mechanism. Structural deficits creates balance of payment issues.

Aur tum ALMOST sahi keh rahay ho... Debt money, not paper money, is just a promise to get paid. There's a slight difference. Today most of the paper money IS debt money. Lekin what we call the GREENBACK dollar notes is paper money and not debt money. Debt money is issued by the State's Central Bank which the central bank charges interest on. So those NOTES (wonder why its called "NOTE"?) u carry in your pocket, have a built-in mechanism of depreciation to accommodate the interest incurred on the note you are carrying. Usually the depreciation correlates to the discount rate set by the central bank.

Acha.. the other thing you said about Gold. Yaar this is another myth that Gold has an intrinsic value. No it doesnt. Eak kaam kero. Just read the first para of my article.
http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/10374/how-the-mighty-dollar-weakens-the-rupee/

See that? Gold holds no value if there is nothing to be bought in the economy.

Yaar I can write a book on how gold can replace the paper,

Please research Argentina's inflation problem.

I'll explain this to you in detail on the weekend, may be i'll write a blog.

Please keep in mind one thing, which you haven't covered in your article, that fiscal policy is also a political policy, not just economic!
 

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