Saleem Shahzad's book reviewed by Khaled Ahmed
- Thread starter M Ali Khan
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zubair.maalick
MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Saleem Shahzad book
It is strange .... without reading the book how can u make an opinion what is written in it ?? :S
It is strange .... without reading the book how can u make an opinion what is written in it ?? :S
zubair.maalick
MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Saleem Shahzad book
I read this book year ago .. and I must say that it is must read book ...
A very valuable resource (not the only) to understand what is going on ..
Apart from this .. there is another book "Inside global Jihad" .. one can also get handsome information from that book .. I recommend that too
I read this book year ago .. and I must say that it is must read book ...
A very valuable resource (not the only) to understand what is going on ..
Apart from this .. there is another book "Inside global Jihad" .. one can also get handsome information from that book .. I recommend that too
M Ali Khan
Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Saleem Shahzad book
I bought and read the book as soon as it came out, and to be honest I enjoyed it. I think its still available in the market across Pakistan.
Sure, Saleem Shahzad's opinion tends to have a slight pro-Taliban/TTP bias, or at least he has sympathy over why Taliban became that way after 9/11. His close contacts with TTP and Afghan Taliban is obvious as well as military setup is a sign that he knew what was going on below the surface.
But from what I have heard, the book or his articles weren't the reason why Saleem Shehzad was abducted and killed. It was in fact - as far as my info is concerned - because he was attempting to double cross the agencies over some vital information he had.
But even that I am not sure of so I could be wrong.
As far as censorship goes:
Banning a book, any book - even a Salman Rushdie piece - is a sign of intellectual cowardice. Many people wanted such books banned WITHOUT them even reading a single page of it.
To me, "Satanic Verses" type books - while I personally have NOT yet read myself - should not be banned to at least allow people to read what he wrote and then counter what is said with their own written reviews, opinions, and critique based on proper language and logic rather than emotional brainless naarey bazi as is obvious within our self-loathing mard-e-momins.
Remember that an illiterate labourer Ghazi Ilm Deen only killed the Hindu publisher in Lahore without ever reading "Rangeela Rasool" book because angry Muslims and maulvis became angry and wanted to punish the author. And how many of those people actually read the book is open for debate but I doubt most of that mob read it! And of course, it wasnt a random incident, it was after a series of "blasphemous" exchanges between Hindus and Muslims of Lahore over their respective religions that led to the murder of a publisher.
That is why I personally do not consider a 10th century crime of "blasphemy" as being relevant today. If a few words or drawings make your faith become "endangered" then the problem lies with YOU and YOUR belief.
EDIT: and last I checked, the proper Islamic way of disposing a damaged Quran is by BURNING it.
If you want to criticise other people for what they believe in or advocate, then its only fair that you allow others to criticise what YOU believe in too!
I am pro free speech and am totally against banning any book or material UNLESS it is hate speech and advocates violence towards a religion, sect, race, and peoples.
You have the right to express an opinion no matter how much against I am, but the line is drawn if your opinion calls for the death of people you do not like or disagree or hate.
That is all.
I bought and read the book as soon as it came out, and to be honest I enjoyed it. I think its still available in the market across Pakistan.
Sure, Saleem Shahzad's opinion tends to have a slight pro-Taliban/TTP bias, or at least he has sympathy over why Taliban became that way after 9/11. His close contacts with TTP and Afghan Taliban is obvious as well as military setup is a sign that he knew what was going on below the surface.
But from what I have heard, the book or his articles weren't the reason why Saleem Shehzad was abducted and killed. It was in fact - as far as my info is concerned - because he was attempting to double cross the agencies over some vital information he had.
But even that I am not sure of so I could be wrong.
As far as censorship goes:
Banning a book, any book - even a Salman Rushdie piece - is a sign of intellectual cowardice. Many people wanted such books banned WITHOUT them even reading a single page of it.
To me, "Satanic Verses" type books - while I personally have NOT yet read myself - should not be banned to at least allow people to read what he wrote and then counter what is said with their own written reviews, opinions, and critique based on proper language and logic rather than emotional brainless naarey bazi as is obvious within our self-loathing mard-e-momins.
Remember that an illiterate labourer Ghazi Ilm Deen only killed the Hindu publisher in Lahore without ever reading "Rangeela Rasool" book because angry Muslims and maulvis became angry and wanted to punish the author. And how many of those people actually read the book is open for debate but I doubt most of that mob read it! And of course, it wasnt a random incident, it was after a series of "blasphemous" exchanges between Hindus and Muslims of Lahore over their respective religions that led to the murder of a publisher.
That is why I personally do not consider a 10th century crime of "blasphemy" as being relevant today. If a few words or drawings make your faith become "endangered" then the problem lies with YOU and YOUR belief.
EDIT: and last I checked, the proper Islamic way of disposing a damaged Quran is by BURNING it.
If you want to criticise other people for what they believe in or advocate, then its only fair that you allow others to criticise what YOU believe in too!
I am pro free speech and am totally against banning any book or material UNLESS it is hate speech and advocates violence towards a religion, sect, race, and peoples.
You have the right to express an opinion no matter how much against I am, but the line is drawn if your opinion calls for the death of people you do not like or disagree or hate.
That is all.
Last edited:
Researcher
MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Saleem Shahzad book
Anonymous hacked Stratfor internal emails. They were released to Wikileaks [ http://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/1644311_re-pakistan-journalist-vanishes-is-the-isi-involved-.html ]
[h=2]Re: Pakistan Journalist Vanishes: Is the ISI Involved? [/h]
Anonymous hacked Stratfor internal emails. They were released to Wikileaks [ http://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/1644311_re-pakistan-journalist-vanishes-is-the-isi-involved-.html ]
[h=2]Re: Pakistan Journalist Vanishes: Is the ISI Involved? [/h]
The most interesting aspect is the killing of a journalist. Fine line between an investigative journalist and spy. When you rattle around
topics nobody wants aired, you pay the price. Truth tellers always get shot. Its much easier to lie or make up stories.
On 6/1/2011 8:46 AM, Sean Noonan wrote:
http://www.amazon.com/Bloodmoney-No...8116/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306935919&sr=8-1
i don't think we're going anywhere with this SSS thing, though it is interesting.
On 6/1/11 8:41 AM, Fred Burton wrote:
The poor ******* went down the rabbit hole and was neutralized. ISI is fully infiltrated by sympathizers and operatives. So, he was
killed by ISI. Will we find a smoking gun? No. Will anybody care about this dude? Not really.
The Agency lost an asset. Life goes on. There is a reason the CIA set up unilateral operations in Pakistan.
Suggest everyone read David Ignatius new book on CIA NOC and front company operations in Pakistan. Once again, he has gotten dead
right.
==========
From: Fred Burton
Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 19:18:28 -0500 (CDT)
To: Kamran Bokhari
Cc: Secure List
Subject: Re: Fwd: Pakistan Journalist Vanishes: Is the ISI
Involved?
I’m not surprised. Have we confirmed he’s dead?
On 5/31/2011 7:16 PM, Kamran Bokhari wrote:
Heard that the ISI agents who were “interrogating” him didn’t realize he had a heart condition and when they began the thrashing the guy had a heart attack and died.
On 5/31/2011 2:17 PM, Fred Burton wrote:
A reasonable man would conclude that the chap was on the CIA dole, but you did not hear that from me. Payback is a *****.
topics nobody wants aired, you pay the price. Truth tellers always get shot. Its much easier to lie or make up stories.
On 6/1/2011 8:46 AM, Sean Noonan wrote:
http://www.amazon.com/Bloodmoney-No...8116/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306935919&sr=8-1
i don't think we're going anywhere with this SSS thing, though it is interesting.
On 6/1/11 8:41 AM, Fred Burton wrote:
The poor ******* went down the rabbit hole and was neutralized. ISI is fully infiltrated by sympathizers and operatives. So, he was
killed by ISI. Will we find a smoking gun? No. Will anybody care about this dude? Not really.
The Agency lost an asset. Life goes on. There is a reason the CIA set up unilateral operations in Pakistan.
Suggest everyone read David Ignatius new book on CIA NOC and front company operations in Pakistan. Once again, he has gotten dead
right.
==========
From: Fred Burton
Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 19:18:28 -0500 (CDT)
To: Kamran Bokhari
Cc: Secure List
Subject: Re: Fwd: Pakistan Journalist Vanishes: Is the ISI
Involved?
I’m not surprised. Have we confirmed he’s dead?
On 5/31/2011 7:16 PM, Kamran Bokhari wrote:
Heard that the ISI agents who were “interrogating” him didn’t realize he had a heart condition and when they began the thrashing the guy had a heart attack and died.
On 5/31/2011 2:17 PM, Fred Burton wrote:
A reasonable man would conclude that the chap was on the CIA dole, but you did not hear that from me. Payback is a *****.
Researcher
MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Saleem Shahzad book
I totally (100%) agree with you. When the book Satanic Verses came in 1988-9, i was President of Islamic society in a foreign university, and everyone was asking questions. I read the book, and found that i could much better answer about wonderful and lovely nature of Rehmatul-Alameen Hazrat Muhammad (SAWW).
I totally agree with you that killing someone is worst thing, banning books does not mean anything, it actually intensifies interest in the book. SSS book has some good information but a lot of times, it is tilted towards Taliban version of events.
You are 100% right about Spy thing as well. Well written, and summed.
I totally (100%) agree with you. When the book Satanic Verses came in 1988-9, i was President of Islamic society in a foreign university, and everyone was asking questions. I read the book, and found that i could much better answer about wonderful and lovely nature of Rehmatul-Alameen Hazrat Muhammad (SAWW).
I totally agree with you that killing someone is worst thing, banning books does not mean anything, it actually intensifies interest in the book. SSS book has some good information but a lot of times, it is tilted towards Taliban version of events.
You are 100% right about Spy thing as well. Well written, and summed.
Researcher
MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Saleem Shahzad book
[MENTION=25719]MuslimPak[/MENTION]: How do you feel that a Taliban Taliban Pakistan sympathetic SSS was a CIA Asset ?
[MENTION=25719]MuslimPak[/MENTION]: How do you feel that a Taliban Taliban Pakistan sympathetic SSS was a CIA Asset ?
M Ali Khan
Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Saleem Shahzad book
Banning something to is the easiest, most cowardly thing to do that means you have already lost the argument. Winning an argument requires hard work, proper research, cool head, and a reliance on facts rather than emotional narey bazi and rhetoric.
And the funny thing is, Salman Rushdie was a largely mid-ranking author most of the world had never heard or read about.
But the Mullah Khomeini's stupid fatwa - among a line of many other stupid fatwas which included continuing the disastrous Iran-Iraq War when Iraq had already asked for a ceasefire as early as 1982 and vowed to even compensate Iranian losses and the Iranian military also wanted to accept the ceasefire - calling for his death automatically propelled Rushdie to become known by almost the entire world!
Banning his book, which is apparently boring fiction by those who actually bothered reading, made it even more famous and made people buy it even more because of its sudden publicity.
That is what the West became concerned/nervous about. How the hell can a BOOK supposedly threaten the belief of all these hyper-emotional mard-e-musalman to the extent they want Rushdie's head to be chopped off??
That is reason why the murder of Theo Van Gogh in Holland made many neutral Dutch people suddenly become angry over what they thought as a "Muslim mob" threatening their society because they cannot take any criticism well.
That is the reason why a scumbag like Geert Wilders became famous because he got the PERFECT excuse to demonise the average Muslim and make them appear to be a threat to Western society. But even then, Holland still strongly advocates freedom of religion and freedom of speech for EVERYONE and Muslims immigrants are a lot safer in Holland than they ever would be in their reactive, angry, and semi-literate Muslim "homelands".
Remember that people like Islam4UK, Omar Bakri, Abu Hamza, Anjem Chowdhry etc have used the UK welfare system and free speech to state their notorious views openly in public and have openly called for the overthrow of the UK government, called Democracy a "kufr", and urged Muslims to demand more special treatment and powers in UK.
Now if these idiots tried doing the same in a "Muslim country" like Saudi Arabia, they would have been beheaded for fitnah!
Exactly!!
Banning something to is the easiest, most cowardly thing to do that means you have already lost the argument. Winning an argument requires hard work, proper research, cool head, and a reliance on facts rather than emotional narey bazi and rhetoric.
And the funny thing is, Salman Rushdie was a largely mid-ranking author most of the world had never heard or read about.
But the Mullah Khomeini's stupid fatwa - among a line of many other stupid fatwas which included continuing the disastrous Iran-Iraq War when Iraq had already asked for a ceasefire as early as 1982 and vowed to even compensate Iranian losses and the Iranian military also wanted to accept the ceasefire - calling for his death automatically propelled Rushdie to become known by almost the entire world!
Banning his book, which is apparently boring fiction by those who actually bothered reading, made it even more famous and made people buy it even more because of its sudden publicity.
That is what the West became concerned/nervous about. How the hell can a BOOK supposedly threaten the belief of all these hyper-emotional mard-e-musalman to the extent they want Rushdie's head to be chopped off??
That is reason why the murder of Theo Van Gogh in Holland made many neutral Dutch people suddenly become angry over what they thought as a "Muslim mob" threatening their society because they cannot take any criticism well.
That is the reason why a scumbag like Geert Wilders became famous because he got the PERFECT excuse to demonise the average Muslim and make them appear to be a threat to Western society. But even then, Holland still strongly advocates freedom of religion and freedom of speech for EVERYONE and Muslims immigrants are a lot safer in Holland than they ever would be in their reactive, angry, and semi-literate Muslim "homelands".
Remember that people like Islam4UK, Omar Bakri, Abu Hamza, Anjem Chowdhry etc have used the UK welfare system and free speech to state their notorious views openly in public and have openly called for the overthrow of the UK government, called Democracy a "kufr", and urged Muslims to demand more special treatment and powers in UK.
Now if these idiots tried doing the same in a "Muslim country" like Saudi Arabia, they would have been beheaded for fitnah!
aq.inqalabi
Senator (1k+ posts)
Re: Saleem Shahzad book
wow its so interesting to see the unity on this thread between @Unicorn and @MuslimPak ........... (bigsmile)
seems like both working on same agenda ;)
regarding book, thnx @MuslimPak for sharing it , its always good to read and know the things with different point of view , personally i have sympathy with Saleem Shahzad because the they way he was killed!
But certainly there is no doubt in my mind that TTP are bunch of fasadees nothing else!
wow its so interesting to see the unity on this thread between @Unicorn and @MuslimPak ........... (bigsmile)
seems like both working on same agenda ;)
regarding book, thnx @MuslimPak for sharing it , its always good to read and know the things with different point of view , personally i have sympathy with Saleem Shahzad because the they way he was killed!
But certainly there is no doubt in my mind that TTP are bunch of fasadees nothing else!
Ali raza babar
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Saleem Shahzad book
Hey unicorn forget about pakistani matters . I heard Bill Gates is Makin Some New High Tech Toilets for you People ... Go and have one before he runs out ....
P.S
Dont Stick your Indian Nose in Pakistani Affairs .
Hey unicorn forget about pakistani matters . I heard Bill Gates is Makin Some New High Tech Toilets for you People ... Go and have one before he runs out ....
P.S
Dont Stick your Indian Nose in Pakistani Affairs .
M Ali Khan
Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Saleem Shahzad book
then we shouldn't stick our nose in Indian affairs.......... but we do!
Ali raza babar
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Unicorn
Banned
Re: Saleem Shahzad book
I already picked up my toilet and I am going to stick my finger in your affair.
I already picked up my toilet and I am going to stick my finger in your affair.
A.Chaudhry
Banned
Re: Saleem Shahzad book
M Ali Khan
Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Saleem Shahzad book
how convenient of you to claim I am "defending Indians".
pointing out your double standard and hypocrisy here.
how convenient of you to claim I am "defending Indians".
