Reserations regarding Blasphemy Law

6sman

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
RESERVATIONS REGARDING BLASPHEMY LAW

Salam,

What follows is a collection of my comments scattered around the forum still awaiting their replies, comments that should not be taken as outright denial of the ‘blasphemy law’, but herein I simply express my doubts concerning it’s veracity, and should rather be taken in good spirit with educational motives.

Let me begin by asking the core question; Where exactly does the Qur’an state the punishment for blasphemy of the Prophet (استہراء رسولﷺ) is death? And let me show you what kind of evidence I seek. For instance, Allaah Ta’aala states concerning theft and fornication;

As for thiefs, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allaah, for their crime: and Allaah is Exalted in power. [Al-Qur'an, 5:38]

The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes... [Al-Qur'an, 24:2]

Notice the clarity and un-ambiguity with which the punishment is prescribed leaving behind no or little room for further explanation (ta’weel). Yet this ayah concerns steeling, whereas murder is a greater crime which certainly deserves to be stated with even further un-ambiguity. Similarly, the Qur’an ordains Qisas or taking of blood-money on murder. Allaah Ta’aala’s laws (hudood) or penal codes are well-defined in the Qur’an and are so explicit that no honest reader could object their prescription. Hence, in light of forgone explanation my contention with regards to the ‘blasphemy law’ is: Where does the Qur'an say something like ‘as for those who blaspheme, slaughter them’? Remember, Allaah’s orders (ahkam) with respect to punishments (hudood) are always clear cut minus any un-certainty, if blasphemy necessitates death then where is this clear cut order (hukm)?

Another thing is that if blasphemy against Allaah Ta’aala can be left un-punished then why can’t blasphemy against His agent, because as I understand: both cases fall under rights of God (huqooqu'Allaah) that are to be left upon the Almighty to deal with, the implied meaning of Allaah’s statement; انا کفینک من المستہزئین. As an example let’s take Christians, who base their faith upon the ‘blasphemy’ of asserting Christ Jesus[p] was the “Begotten-God”, but even under Islamic rule (state): No punishment for this blasphemy is executable. We might also recall that sin is of two types; moral and legal. Legal sin is that upon which punishment becomes obligatory such as fornication, robbery, and murder, even bypassing traffic rules. But some sin purely moralistic such as anger, hate, jealousy. Take arrogance for example, the Prophet said concerning it that no haughty and arrogant person would enter heaven. Imagine the gravity of the sin, yet, it is not a legal sin against which a punishment must be applied. Blasphemy is something similar, it's a moral sin of immense magnitude that is more than enough to expel one from paradise and admit the abyss, but it has no legal aspect that I know of.

Then I ask who has given individuals, lay-men, the right to carry out murders when Allaah Ta'aala so clearly states: Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except with justice. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law). [Al-Qur'an, 17:33] Every soul is sacred in the eyes of Allaah Ta’aala and no life can be taken except after due process of justice which includes witnesses against and testimony of the accused person, only after he be given every right to defend himself as citizen is in a society of Islamic social justice; then only can the court alone pass due verdict. And as for the punishment, then ideally instead of a bunch “Aashiqan-e Rasool”, the courts should decide appropriate punishment if one is actually found guilty. And the court does not (at least should not) work on emotions, and ought try her utmost for rectification i.e. look at the root cause as to why a person might take up such line of action. If his ‘blasphemy’ be due to some misconception then the court can (should) take lenient action, but if the cause be sheer hatred towards Islam then she can determine what punishment is suitable, options of which include flogging, jail, ransom, but not capital punishment since the Qur’an, as I read, didn't even mention a minor. So I ask: Is it legal to just accuse anyone of ‘blasphemy’ and go out slaughtering people without actually proving the guy’s ‘guilt’?

Now people at times produce isolated incidents in support for this law, of such I beg the question: Were not all pagan Meccans, in fact whole of Arabia guilty of blasphemy against Allaah’s Messenger? Of course they were, so did Rasoolu’Allaah at the conquest of Makkah prescribe upon all of them the punishment of death? Ne’er, rather he forgave them all except the most notorious among them who were involved in other heinous crimes against humanity. My query is: If this ‘blasphemy law’ was ordained by Allaah Ta’aala then why did not His Messenger implement it when we take into consideration the fact that it is not possible for the Prophet to alter what Allaah Ta’aala had prescribed? Look at what the Prophet says: "By Allaah, if Fatima, the daughter of Muhammadﷺ stole, I would cut off her hand." [Bukhari]

Though I've never been a fan of Salman Taseer, all he did was express his own opinion to which he was more than entitled to. He had doubts regarding the blasphemy law and to be fair, so too I. Perhaps the closest verse to anything like a ‘blasphemy law’ is Surah Maidah, 5:33, but even it gives four options including exile, so why kill the guy? And even that ayah is followed by glad-tidings on repentance. I wanna know what has happened to tolerance in our society that is supposedly based on Islamic morals? Isn't sabr the best form of ishq-e-Rasoolﷺ or "ishq-e-Rasoolﷺ" mere lip-service? When ittiba` is the best form of love of the Prophetﷺ then why is such murder condoned, even encouraged in religious circles?

I wanna know did any of these overzealous mullahs try to change Taseer's view by guiding him to the right opinion. What happened to rectification (islah) propagation (tableegh), the fundamental tools by which Islam spread? Why did not our clergies (molvis), who can't express enough their "love for the Prophetﷺ", play down the issue by using dialogue to solve disputes as the Prophetﷺ use to do? Instead they show complete disregard for Rasool'Allaahﷺ, his religion, his teachings by inciting emotions and passion with vulgar and extravagant slogans amongst their weak-minded followers who have little knowledge of what Islam is, thus are mentally vulnerable to religious indoctrination, and always sensitive to actually carry out exactly what they've been instigated or programmed to do by their religious teachers. Our mullahs, I'm sorry to say, are nothing but cry-babies and a bunch of emotional idiots, and so too those who sheepishly them. People say politicians are bad, well yes they are, but molvis are even worse who mix religion with politics. These guys don't care about Islam or it's global image, all they care for is their over-grown tummies and self-suiting agendas, and to me these are the main cause for extremism and terrorism to flourish, attributes that have no place in Islam.

Salam!
 
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A.Ali.T

Minister (2k+ posts)
6sman
I read your entire post, let me admit that it is very well written and you have raised some very good points.

You asked a very basic question.
Let me begin by asking the core question; Where exactly does the Qur’an state the punishment for blasphemy of the Prophet (استہراءرسول) is death?

Let us first see what is blasphemy law and whether this law is Islamic or unislamic?
Basically the Islamic Republic of Pakistan uses its Penal Code to prohibit and punish blasphemy against Islam.

Several sections of Pakistan's Criminal Code comprise its blasphemy laws.
It forbids
Damaging or defiling a place of worship or a sacred object.
Outraging religious feelings.
Defiling the Quran.
Defaming Rasool Allah (S.A.W).

Defiling the Quran merits imprisonment for life.
Defaming Rasool Allah (S.A.W) merits death with or without a fine.
The trial must take place in a Court of Session with a Muslim judge presiding.

You are right that this crime is not made punishable by death either through the Holy Qur’an or the Sunnah; however, many scholars of this Ummah believe that blasphemy should be punished by death.

I want to ask you two questions
1. Are our legislators entitled to pass such a law which makes this crime punishable by death?
2. Does Holy Qur’an itself stands against this sort of punishment

My answer is yes! Pakistan is a sovereign country, and it can pass whichever law it deems necessary, and no! In my opinion Holy Qur’an does not stand against this sort of punishment.

Now the most important question remains, do people misuse this law?
Answer is absolutely.

Was Qadri justified in killing Salman Taseer?
Answer is absolutely not, this matter should be investigated and persons responsible should be punished severely.
 
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hans

Banned
blasphemy law was created to keep tab on Mirza Ghulam Ahmad followers.

But I can bet my sweet 1/- Rs that right now the followers of Mirza are down on the floor laughing like crazy.



 

Ehraz

MPA (400+ posts)
Speaking without thinking leads to trouble. One has no control over the good or bad effects of his words once these have been uttered. It is, therefore, advisable to think before speaking. Islam has emphasized the need to suppress one's anger. So, a true Muslim is one who keeps his temper under control and restrains his language and his hands in time of anger.

An overwhelming majority of Muslim Scholars attribute illogical and inhuman Law towards of Islam. One might have been thinking that when top order Muslim Scholars advocate "Death Penalty" for blasphemy then this Law must have roots in the Holy Quran. There is NO verse in the Holy Quran regarding "Death Penalty" for blasphemy. You might find such Law in the Torah, but not in the Holy Quran. Stop and Think - whether the source of this Law of Mullahs is the Holy Quran or the Torah? The source of this inhuman Law is an obsolete Divine Law (i.e. Torah) and not the Holy Quran. As far as the Hadith is this respect are concerned - it must be kept in mind that the traditions which were compiled approximately 200 years of teh demise of the Holy Prophet (saw) be considered as "Above Error" on the part of the narrators. Especially, when such traditions are contradicting the Holy Quran. On one hand there is a Law consisting of worst type of compulsion in the form of "Death Penalty" and on the other hand there is a wonderful statement of the Holy Quran ordering "Freedom of Conscience" and saying: "There is NO Compulsion in Religion." [2:256] Is the wonderful teaching of Holy Quran ordering absolute "Freedom if Conscience" worth following or the inhuman Law of Mullahs based on worst type of compulsion? The final decision will be declared on the Day of Judgment.

The Holy Quran prohibits the Muslims to abuse even the FALSE GODS of the idolaters.
"And revile not those whom they call upon beside Allah, lest they, out of spite, revile Allah in their ignorance. Thus unto every people have We caused their doing to seem fair. Then unto their Lord is their return; and He will inform them of what they used to do."[6:109] Think about it.
 

dukelondon

Senator (1k+ posts)
There is no room for the Kala Qanoon known as Blasphemy Law in Islam (i.e the Noble Quran or Sunnah). This is a shameful act. This sick minded wild beast named Malik Mumtaz shed Khoon-e-Nahaq by killing Salman Taseer. I feel ashamed to say that we are the ummat of Rehmatul-lil-Alameen (PBUH and His Holy Progeny) and we have resorted to such henious acts of violence against our fellow Muslim brothers and sisters and fellow human beings. Its unbelievable that on one hand we claim to be the followers of the most tolerant personality known to mankind and on the other hand we are the most intolerant human beings on this planet. Shame on us!!!!!! I still cant believe that there are people on this forum and in our country who are supporting this wild beast who was smiling as if he had saved the life of a million human beings.
 

sngilani

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Extremist views lead and promote to terrorism. It should be discouraged at al levels in any society otherwise the very fabrics of the society would be torn. Nations never remain intact by encouraging such behaviour.
 

Doorandesh

Councller (250+ posts)
I am not a religious scholar so I cannot say about sharia punishment of blasphemy but I have not seen any definite proof in favour of death penalty. The current blasphemy law is a Pakistani law and there are always room for improvement in any man made laws and there are differences in their interpretation. According to the law death is the maximum but not the only punishment. What I have read about Aasia's case shows that she is denying commiting any blasphemy. Even if it is assumed that she did commit blasphemy in the spur of the moment then why did the court choose to punish her by maximum i.e death penalty. I think the law has been misused and justice has not been done. Probably judges also felt the pressure of fanatic moulvis and made a popular decision. Punishment should fit the severity of crime. On top of that now we have extra judicial killing of Governor Taseer which highlights state of affairs in Pakistan and provides a glimpse of our fanatic society. Pakistan has two major problems corruption and fanticism.
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
The example of the Holy Prophet (saw) regarding blasphemy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3X74PnTER4&feature=uploademail

Verily you have in the Prophet of Allah an excellent model, for him who fears Allah and the Last Day and who remembers Allah much.[33:22]

Let us think like that

A man is murdered
murderer is being captured and his punishment is death.
Now who have the the right to forgive him as per religion?
Relatives of the one who got murdered
Any one else have any right of that ?

Same is the case here
Muhammad pbuh forgive others on the Toheen and all the wrong deeds BECAUSE He got the RIGHT TO FORGIVE HIS "Mujrim"
Even the incident of Taif(that clip you send discussed) Allah ask his opinion What you want.


Clip also discussed Quranic Ayath that Do not Abuse even false Gods of others.

But Alaas a person forget and neglect that Quranic Ayath and Abuse and use filthy(bazari) language against Jesus (GOD for Christians) of BIBLE
and He did not even spare Isa AS of Quran while doing that.

I know you know what i am saying.
 

6sman

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
6sman
I read your entire post, let me admit that it is very well written and you have raised some very good points.

You asked a very basic question.
Let me begin by asking the core question; Where exactly does the Qur’an state the punishment for blasphemy of the Prophet (استہراءرسول) is death?

Let us first see what is blasphemy law and whether this law is Islamic or unislamic?
Basically the Islamic Republic of Pakistan uses its Penal Code to prohibit and punish blasphemy against Islam.

Several sections of Pakistan's Criminal Code comprise its blasphemy laws.
It forbids
Damaging or defiling a place of worship or a sacred object.
Outraging religious feelings.
Defiling the Quran.
Defaming Rasool Allah (S.A.W).

Defiling the Quran merits imprisonment for life.
Defaming Rasool Allah (S.A.W) merits death with or without a fine.
The trial must take place in a Court of Session with a Muslim judge presiding.

You are right that this crime is not made punishable by death either through the Holy Qur’an or the Sunnah; however, many scholars of this Ummah believe that blasphemy should be punished by death.

I want to ask you two questions
1. Are our legislators entitled to pass such a law which makes this crime punishable by death?
2. Does Holy Qur’an itself stands against this sort of punishment

My answer is yes! Pakistan is a sovereign country, and it can pass whichever law it deems necessary, and no! In my opinion Holy Qur’an does not stand against this sort of punishment.

Now the most important question remains, do people misuse this law?
Answer is absolutely.

Was Qadri justified in killing Salman Taseer?
Answer is absolutely not, this matter should be investigated and persons responsible should be punished severely.

Salam!

I commend your insight into the subject, in fact (almost) each reply I've read in this thread has been very positive expelling dislike towards terrorism and extremism, specifically that which shrouds itself in religious garb. So I give my appreciation to all those who haven't been shy of speaking against extremist elements.

And we should not fail to estimate the dire need for such announcements to echo far and wide in wake of images of terrorist extremists covered in flowers. This event should not be viewed as just an un-fortunately incident, for the underlying ideology is far more severe and frightening. Just imagine the consequences if such an ideology were to gain strength from this incident inasmuch as it becomes the predominant mindset insofar as any person holding dissenting, even objective (un-bais) views could easily be deemed sacrilegious and hence held punishable. Just think of what would happen if people purporting this mindset pervade; people who are in-tolerable towards dissent, even impartial opinion which does not conform their ideology, people who are willing to disregard all bound (even religious) in order to achieve what they see appropriate: would there remain, in such an atmosphere, room for people like you and me who view things with objectivity and proemial un-biasness, people who won't just bow to at their will and have the "audacity" to raise voices in their presence? I mean, isn't freedom of speech or right to form or educate an opinion a fundamental right of each person which Islam itself has vouchsafed? Are we now gonna have our heads chopped-off just because we view things differently to the pervading mind-frame? We need to make the right choice and fast.

Now concerning your queries which I might add are very relevant and to which you've already expressed rather credible opinions. I do agree that any nation or democracy can legislate any law but is it entitled to do so? I believe yes, but problem with this specific legislation is much deeper, I mean how do you define those gray areas and explain what constitutes 'blasphemy' and what does not; for this is a matter which entirely revolves around the sentiments of a person you ask. I for one could not even find appropriate word for blasphemy in the Qur'an, commentators had to translate 'kufr' to 'blasphemy' to get it in. The answer to your first question may lie beneath the second, I think we all agree that this issue of blasphemy is very sensitive and demands a legislation, if so then did the Legislator of legislators (Allaah Ta'aala) prescribe a law? He should, since if you recall that Allaah's orders (ahkam) come to serve mankind in contentious issues wherein man lacks authority to make the correct and decisive choice. Certainly, blasphemy is a disputed affair and all of us seem unanimous that it, as a punishment, is Qur'anically un-founded. In my personal opinion which again is open for adjustment; the Qur'an actually discourages re-acting to insults, and startling as it might sound; the Qur'an educates it's believer or follower that the best method by which ignorance (blasphemy) can be eradicated is ignorance (disregard) thereto, indeed clowns wouldn't have reason to shout if we didn't pay attention. Observe the following selected verses;

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اسْتَعِينُوا بِالصَّبْرِ وَالصَّلاةِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ مَعَ الصَّابِرِينَ
O ye who believe! seek help with patient perseverance and prayer; for Allaah is with those who patiently persevere. [2:153]

فَاصْبِرْ صَبْرًا جَمِيلا
Therefore do thou hold Patience,- a Patience of beautiful (contentment). [70:5]

وَاصْبِرْ عَلَى مَا يَقُولُونَ وَاهْجُرْهُمْ هَجْرًا جَمِيلا
And have patience with what they say, and leave them with noble (dignity).

وَذَرْنِي وَالْمُكَذِّبِينَ أُولِي النَّعْمَةِ وَمَهِّلْهُمْ قَلِيلا
And leave Me (alone to deal with) those in possession of the good things of life, who (yet) deny the Truth; and bear with them for a little while. [73:10-11]

ادْفَعْ بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ السَّيِّئَةَ نَحْنُ أَعْلَمُ بِمَا يَصِفُونَ
Repel evil with that which is best: We are well acquainted with the things they say.
[23:96]

وَلا تَسْتَوِي الْحَسَنَةُ وَلا السَّيِّئَةُ ادْفَعْ بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ فَإِذَا الَّذِي بَيْنَكَ وَبَيْنَهُ عَدَاوَةٌ كَأَنَّهُ وَلِيٌّ حَمِيمٌ
Nor can goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: Then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate! [41:34]

The Qur'anic guidance related to our issue seems pretty obvious, and if punishment was necessary in case of blasphemy then I see no reason why the Qur'an, which details hudood on theft, murder, fornication, false-witness, etc with great lucidity would leave a law for blasphemy out of the picture. Many people (scholars) have brought blasphemy under the banner of fasaad fi'l-ardh (creating chaos in the land), a position somewhat tenable, but again to what extent one might over-state for it to be taged
as fasaad fi'l-ardh is a matter of grave un-certainty which more than often has lead people to misuse the law, suppress the meek and those in minority, and enables a certain group of fanatics to maintain certainly a psychological grasp over the masses.

Thus shall remain unless and until this law be re-visited, exactly what Taseer demanded, and we shall continue to see people being openly slain for no or little cause, assassins becoming heroes, and violation of this very 'Blasphemy Law' from those very people who assert to uphold it, i.e. our respected clergy-men "`ulema-i kiram".

Salam!
 
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A.Ali.T

Minister (2k+ posts)
I am not a religious scholar so I cannot say about sharia punishment of blasphemy but I have not seen any definite proof in favour of death penalty. The current blasphemy law is a Pakistani law and there are always room for improvement in any man made laws and there are differences in their interpretation. According to the law death is the maximum but not the only punishment. What I have read about Aasia's case shows that she is denying commiting any blasphemy. Even if it is assumed that she did commit blasphemy in the spur of the moment then why did the court choose to punish her by maximum i.e death penalty. I think the law has been misused and justice has not been done. Probably judges also felt the pressure of fanatic moulvis and made a popular decision. Punishment should fit the severity of crime. On top of that now we have extra judicial killing of Governor Taseer which highlights state of affairs in Pakistan and provides a glimpse of our fanatic society. Pakistan has two major problems corruption and fanticism.

Doorandesh
Even if we leave the law as it is we must take two steps immediately
1. Make the evidentiary process extremely stringent
2. Anyone found falsely accusing others with blaphamy should be severely punished

If we take these two steps I think we will see alot of improvement, if this does not work then we would have to replace death penalty with life imprisonment. That's just my opinion.
 
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Ehraz

MPA (400+ posts)
Let us think like that

A man is murdered
murderer is being captured and his punishment is death.
Now who have the the right to forgive him as per religion?
Relatives of the one who got murdered
Any one else have any right of that ?

Same is the case here
Muhammad pbuh forgive others on the Toheen and all the wrong deeds BECAUSE He got the RIGHT TO FORGIVE HIS "Mujrim"
Even the incident of Taif(that clip you send discussed) Allah ask his opinion What you want.


Clip also discussed Quranic Ayath that Do not Abuse even false Gods of others.

But Alaas a person forget and neglect that Quranic Ayath and Abuse and use filthy(bazari) language against Jesus (GOD for Christians) of BIBLE
and He did not even spare Isa AS of Quran while doing that.

I know you know what i am saying.
Salam Abdul ALLAH Bhai.
Look it has been mentioned many times in many discussions that there is no point in wasting time in arguments.
If we had Sharia Law in our country, then the Islamic Courts shall be decide in accordance within Islamic rules. In this case the family of the murdered has the right to forgive, but this is not the current situation in Pakistan. We have a constitutional setup, and the civil court will take this matter in accordance within the civil right of the government of Pakistan. In a very corrupt system like ours in Pakistan no Judge will sentence such a murder because his own life is at risk from these mullahs elements who have hijacked our country. So, please come forward with an wise approach and don't try to twist thing like a mullah.

The second part of your baseless allegations is self-explanatory

According to the teachings of Christians Jesus is not God, but Son of God. You should do some proper research before you put your matter up n here. According to Quran Jesus taught only unity of God and nothing else. I hope you can count 1+1 together. Please check your infos again

I remember that you used to say - I read his books... so why couldn't you find the answer right there instead of asking me? You never read anything!
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Salam Abdul ALLAH Bhai.
Look it has been mentioned many times in many discussions that there is no point in wasting time in arguments.
If we had Sharia Law in our country, then the Islamic Courts shall be decide in accordance within Islamic rules. In this case the family of the murdered has the right to forgive, but this is not the current situation in Pakistan. We have a constitutional setup, and the civil court will take this matter in accordance within the civil right of the government of Pakistan. In a very corrupt system like ours in Pakistan no Judge will sentence such a murder because his own life is at risk from these mullahs elements who have hijacked our country. So, please come forward with an wise approach and don't try to twist thing like a mullah.

The second part of your baseless allegations is self-explanatory

According to the teachings of Christians Jesus is not God, but Son of God. You should do some proper research before you put your matter up n here. According to Quran Jesus taught only unity of God and nothing else. I hope you can count 1+1 together. Please check your infos again

I remember that you used to say - I read his books... so why couldn't you find the answer right there instead of asking me? You never read anything!

I cant understand on what basis you come up with your first part of your post.
What i have said was
That saying that "Death punishment for blasphemy is wrong" is WRONG and those who use FORGIVINESS from RASOOL Allah SW as a point to prove there stance are wrong.


For the second part of your response well it is you who need to get your info straight

They Indeed Think Jesus as GOD
I know that as many time i debate with them

And Have you read Quran
Look What Quran is confirming (that they TAKE JESUS AS GOD)
"And when God said, 'O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say unto men, "Take me and my mother as gods, apart from God"? He said, 'To you be glory! It is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, you would have known it, knowing what is within my heart, though I do not know your knowledge; you know the things unseen. I only said to them what you did commands me: "Serve God, my God and your God." (Al-Maida 5-116)

If Quran is not enough(as ahmadis love to twist Quran)
Then read MGA book Jung Muqads page 296 and see what is he saying
JO SACHAY KHUDA KO CHOR KAR AIK AJIZ INSAN KO KHUDA BANA RAHA HAY

(if i did not read then how i come to know about this book and page number?? and how quickly get to the required info from his book)
any way.

you talk about Not finding answers. Well What answers???
Quran says do not abuse false Gods of others
He did it
And that person whom he abuses is Also a prophet of GOD as Isa AS
He try to cover this by saying when ever He abuse Isa AS he was talking about Jesus of FALSE BIBLE. not the Isa AS of Islam

well what a lame excuse

But wait. Then why He abuses Isa AS by using QURAN?? Need References Ehraaz???
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Salam Abdul ALLAH Bhai.
Look it has been mentioned many times in many discussions that there is no point in wasting time in arguments.
If we had Sharia Law in our country, then the Islamic Courts shall be decide in accordance within Islamic rules. In this case the family of the murdered has the right to forgive, but this is not the current situation in Pakistan. We have a constitutional setup, and the civil court will take this matter in accordance within the civil right of the government of Pakistan. In a very corrupt system like ours in Pakistan no Judge will sentence such a murder because his own life is at risk from these mullahs elements who have hijacked our country. So, please come forward with an wise approach and don't try to twist thing like a mullah.

The second part of your baseless allegations is self-explanatory

According to the teachings of Christians Jesus is not God, but Son of God. You should do some proper research before you put your matter up n here. According to Quran Jesus taught only unity of God and nothing else. I hope you can count 1+1 together. Please check your infos again

I remember that you used to say - I read his books... so why couldn't you find the answer right there instead of asking me? You never read anything!

Note due to Connection loss I am not sure that i have posted it correctly so might be it appear twice :(

I cant understand on what basis you come up with your first part of your post.
What i have said was
That saying that "Death punishment for blasphemy is wrong" is WRONG and those who use FORGIVINESS from RASOOL Allah SW as a point to prove there stance are wrong.


For the second part of your response well it is you who need to get your info straight

They Indeed Think Jesus as GOD
I know that as many time i debate with them

And Have you read Quran
Look What Quran is confirming (that they TAKE JESUS AS GOD)
"And when God said, 'O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say unto men, "Take me and my mother as gods, apart from God"? He said, 'To you be glory! It is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, you would have known it, knowing what is within my heart, though I do not know your knowledge; you know the things unseen. I only said to them what you did commands me: "Serve God, my God and your God." (Al-Maida 5-116)

If Quran is not enough(as ahmadis love to twist Quran)
Then read MGA book Jung Muqads page 296 and see what is he saying
JO SACHAY KHUDA KO CHOR KAR AIK AJIZ INSAN KO KHUDA BANA RAHA HAY

(if i did not read then how i come to know about this book and page number?? and how quickly get to the required info from his book)
any way.

you talk about Not finding answers. Well What answers???
Quran says do not abuse false Gods of others
He did it
And that person whom he abuses is Also a prophet of GOD as Isa AS
He try to cover this by saying when ever He abuse Isa AS he was talking about Jesus of FALSE BIBLE. not the Isa AS of Islam

well what a lame excuse

But wait. Then why He abuses Isa AS by using QURAN?? Need References Ehraaz???
 

sngilani

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
کسے خبر تھی کہ لے کر چراغے مصطفوی
جہاں میں آگ لگاتی پھرے گی بولہبی


Whatever the reason, killing some one on the road instead of taking him to the court (utilizing existing Blasphemy law) shows that this nuclear state created in the name of Islam is now falling apart in the name of Islam.

Killing of a human being for whom the Prophet was sent as Rehmat-ul-Alimeen, is the worst kind of blasphemy.
 

6sman

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
کسے خبر تھی کہ لے کر چراغے مصطفوی
جہاں میں آگ لگاتی پھرے گی بولہبی
Salam!

Well said brother, and let me inform you that now we're hearing a certain extremist group has readied a suicide bomber to kill Aasia "the blasphemer". I'm absolutely amazed at the level of ignorance we've reached. I mean, who are they trying to satisfy? The Prophet said: "He who commits suicide by throttling shall keep on throttling himself in the Hell Fire and he who commits suicide by stabbing himself shall keep on stabbing himself in the Hell-Fire." [Bukhari] And if I'm right, this lady has already denied it saying she could never think of blaspheming the Messenger and has apparent sought tawbah which eradicates prior sins. The thing is even if one was able to justify "personal reward" by taking out a "despiser of Rasool", but what betterment does it bring to Islam other than lowering it's universal image, portraying it as a violent, merciless and extremist religion? Think about those who might be considering (reverting to) Islam and see these nasty images of violence and sheer stupidity, what impression does such behavior give to them? You kill one non-Muslim, and prevent tenfold from becoming Muslim, great job!

Salam!
 
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sngilani

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Salam!

Well said brother, and let me inform you that now we're hearing a certain extremist group has readied a suicide bomber to kill Aasia "the blasphemer". I'm absolutely amazed at the level of ignorance we've reached. I mean, who are they trying to satisfy? The Prophet said: "He who commits suicide by throttling shall keep on throttling himself in the Hell Fire and he who commits suicide by stabbing himself shall keep on stabbing himself in the Hell-Fire." [Bukhari] And if I'm right, this lady has already denied it saying she could never think of blaspheming the Messenger and has apparent sought tawbah which eradicates prior sins. The thing is even if one was able to justify "personal reward" by taking out a "despiser of Rasool", but what betterment does it bring to Islam other than lowering it's universal image, portraying it as a violent, merciless and extremist religion? Think about those who might be considering (reverting to) Islam and see these nasty images of violence and sheer stupidity, what impression does such behavior give to them? You kill one non-Muslim, and prevent tenfold from becoming Muslim, great job!

Salam!



So what is the solution ?.. Nation seems devided on this issue due to some extremist an trrorist elements in Pakistan. They are only 2% of the population. They were against the creation of Pakistan. With their attitudes and behaviour this state is falling apart in the name of Islam.
 

6sman

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
So what is the solution ?
Salam!

Knowledge! It's a simple as that. We live in an era of religious ignorance where criminals are treated as heroes, extremism considered orthodoxy, nescience assumed gnosis. It's imperative that we acquire knowledge and make knowledge accessible. The Prophet said: "it is incumbent (فرض) upon each Muslim to gain knowledge" With due reverence to symbols like beard, cap, or trouser above ankles, the Prophet did not tell us these were compulsory acts, he did however make learning an obligation upon his ummah. And Prophet foretold that among the signs of Qiyamah is disappearance of knowledge, the exact problem we face today, for besides `ilm becoming un-approachable and expensive, look how negligent and un-concerned are we in it's pursuit. On the other hand, ignorance is cheep, ever-present, and most are gladly content with lives similar to that of beasts. Either we have no or little desire to acquire understanding of (religious) things, or our efforts in gaining it are all wasted in personal and prejudicial regard, consequently, we don't change ourselves to suit (religious) knowledge, we alter knowledge for self-suiting. So from acquiring `ilm to attitude we adopt hereunto there need, nay; must be a willing and earnest change of heart, otherwise, there is all doom and gloom.

Salam!
 
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sngilani

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Salam!

Knowledge! It's a simple as that. We live in an era of religious ignorance where criminals are treated as heroes, extremism considered orthodoxy, nescience assumed gnosis. It's imperative that we acquire knowledge and make knowledge accessible. The Prophet said: "it is incumbent (فرض) upon each Muslim to gain knowledge" With due reverence to symbols like beard, cap, or trouser above ankles, the Prophet did not tell us these were compulsory acts, he did however make learning an obligation upon his ummah. And Prophet foretold that among the signs of Qiyamah is disappearance of knowledge, the exact problem we face today, for besides `ilm becoming un-approachable and expensive, look how negligent and un-concerned are we in it's pursuit. On the other hand, ignorance is cheep, ever-present, and most are gladly content with lives similar to that of beasts. Either we have no or little desire to acquire understanding of (religious) things, or our efforts in gaining it are all wasted in personal and prejudicial regard, consequently, we don't change ourselves to suit (religious) knowledge, we alter knowledge for self-suiting. So from acquiring `ilm to attitude we adopt hereunto there need, nay; must be a willing and earnest change of heart, otherwise, there is all doom and gloom.

Salam!


What knowledge. Every one has its 'own God'. They say, ''My God is better than yours''. Most people are followers and hate doing research to dig out truth. Moreover world of Islam is divided into many sects. Pakistan has become a testing ground by funds from many foreign islamic powers to spread their ideology.
 
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