Qadiyanis will be listed as minorities

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
Same goes for you.

Now which is a bigger sin or crime. Not believing that Prophet s.a.w was the last prophet or associating partners with Allah and commiting shirk.

By every means, ONE WHO DOESN"T BELIEVE THAT Prophet S.A.W is not Last Prophet as these believe in Allah but Not his commands.
So you are saying not believing in a Prophet is a bigger sin than shirk?
 

GreenMaple

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Thats the problem with having a country base its laws on a certain sect of Islam. Yesterday Fatimids and Shia Islam was mainstream today its Sunni Islam tomorrow it will be some other sect

What that does is that it gives the majority sect people the right to write whatever detail they want, ie finality of prophet and use that to discriminate against the minority.

We copied constitution from British. The reason why British had constitution was not to write the 10 commandments. It was there to protect minorities from the majority.

And forget about equal rights. If you put Islamic in the name if a country you are already disqualifying minorities from being the norm in that country.
Wrong again. The very reason of existence of Pakistan as an independent state is that it's governance, statehood workings and it's laws will be based on Islamic principles, aka based on the Qur'an (Sharia Laws); otherwise there was no logic for separation. A lot has been done in this regard but a whole lot more needs to be done for this lofty ideal. No one, whether Sunni, Shia or any other mainstream sect for that matter, has disagreements on the Qur'an, and finality of the last Messanger of the Almighty.

The Qur'an itself mandates equal rights to the minorities. To think that minorities are treated equally in a secular state is just an illusion; our next door neighbor India being a good example.
 

Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
No, you are wrong. This is exactly what Pakistan was made against because Indians Hindus were discriminating against Muslims. It would make no sense for Muslims to demand their own state so that they can do the same thing to their minorities as Hindus were doing to them.

There was no mention of Sharia by Jinnah, infact he spoke about seperation of state and religions and these speeches have been censored after his death.

Pakistan was not made for a specfic majority to discriminate against a minority. Jinnah was decades ahead in his vision and he made a country in which anyone could freely practise their religion and its not the States business. Sharia and other stupidity are later additions and now we have some of the worst human rights and freedom of religion records.

Wrong again. The very reason of existence of Pakistan as an independent state is that it's governance, statehood workings and it's laws will be based on Islamic principles, aka based on the Qur'an (Sharia Laws); otherwise there was no logic for separation. A lot has been done in this regard but a whole lot more needs to be done for this lofty ideal. No one, whether Sunni, Shia or any other mainstream sect for that matter, has disagreements on the Qur'an, and finality of the last Messanger of the Almighty.

The Qur'an itself mandates equal rights to the minorities. To think that minorities are treated equally in a secular state is just an illusion; our next door neighbor India being a good example.
 

ali-raj

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
So you are saying not believing in a Prophet is a bigger sin than shirk?
Mushrik is non muslim. It is a Sin, but they have the option to come in fold of Islam or 2 others as mentioned in my other replies.

Qadiyani claims to be Muslim. For Muslim it is mandatory to give Shahdah that Prophet Mohammad PBUH is the last prophet sent by Allah Subhanawtallah. First Kalma.

So, Qadiyanis do recite Kalma Awal, but they say that Prophet hood is completed on Mirza Qadiyani , He is Essa, he Is Mussa he Is Ahmed etc.

For A muslim, doing such thing , have 2 options , denounce or get killed (Because, he / she was enlightened but opted to go out of Islam to Kufar, thats why A Murtid is more punished then a mushrik. You can also call it "Pehlay ghar ki safai, phir bahir ki"

Now, if you are hell bent on twisting simple stuff, then be on your path.
This is my last reply to you.
 

ali-raj

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
There was no mention of Sharia by Jinnah, infact he spoke about seperation of state and religions and these speeches have been censored after his death.
I would really like to hear these speeches, and i am sure there is going to be a copy available (if u r sure) in audio or in written (surely someone would have printed it on newspaper etc)
 

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
Mushrik is non muslim. It is a Sin, but they have the option to come in fold of Islam or 2 others as mentioned in my other replies.

Qadiyani claims to be Muslim. For Muslim it is mandatory to give Shahdah that Prophet Mohammad PBUH is the last prophet sent by Allah Subhanawtallah. First Kalma.

So, Qadiyanis do recite Kalma Awal, but they say that Prophet hood is completed on Mirza Qadiyani , He is Essa, he Is Mussa he Is Ahmed etc.

For A muslim, doing such thing , have 2 options , denounce or get killed (Because, he / she was enlightened but opted to go out of Islam to Kufar, thats why A Murtid is more punished then a mushrik. You can also call it "Pehlay ghar ki safai, phir bahir ki"

Now, if you are hell bent on twisting simple stuff, then be on your path.
This is my last reply to you.
And I'm sure you have proof to back all of this up?
 

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
Mushrik is non muslim. It is a Sin, but they have the option to come in fold of Islam or 2 others as mentioned in my other replies.

Qadiyani claims to be Muslim. For Muslim it is mandatory to give Shahdah that Prophet Mohammad PBUH is the last prophet sent by Allah Subhanawtallah. First Kalma.

So, Qadiyanis do recite Kalma Awal, but they say that Prophet hood is completed on Mirza Qadiyani , He is Essa, he Is Mussa he Is Ahmed etc.

For A muslim, doing such thing , have 2 options , denounce or get killed (Because, he / she was enlightened but opted to go out of Islam to Kufar, thats why A Murtid is more punished then a mushrik. You can also call it "Pehlay ghar ki safai, phir bahir ki"

Now, if you are hell bent on twisting simple stuff, then be on your path.
This is my last reply to you.
You know sometimes you have to think about things with your god gifted common sense too. Instead of just gulping down what is being fed to you. If this was the case no non muslim would ever accept Islam. Because for some its over a period of time before they finally accept Islam. And during all this time they have a lot of questions and they are unsure of things.

Now if you tell someone like this, you are most welcomed to become a Muslim but remember for whatever reason you change your mind you will have to be killed. You think anyone will accept Islam in that situation?

Also there are many due to seeing all the wrong practices of Muslims and Mullahs leave Islam or become atheist ( this is very common in Iranian youth ) but as they grow older and mature they realize what they saw, practiced and heard really wasn't Islam and find the true Islam and come back to Islam.

But according to you they would have been killed and never ever even been given a second chance.

What you are talking about is the Taliban version of Islam, which really isn't Islam but a twisted authoritarian belief system, where there is no flexibility and is rigid like a rock.
 

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
Constitutionally the state of Pakistan is called "Islamic Republic of Pakistan", and all laws of the State cannot be contrary to Sharia (Islamic Laws, which still seem be a work in progress). One of the fundamental articles of the Islamic faith and of being a Muslim is to testify the finality of Prophethood of the last Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Anyone who does not accept this critical element of Islamic faith is considered as non-Muslim and part of the minority. The minorities by the way are free to practice their faith openly, and are guaranteed equal rights and obligations under the Constitution. There has been enough discussion on this, so let's close this chapter for good.

You do know Jinnah belonged to a minority Shia Ismali sect ( hardly even 2-5% of the population even today ) and you can hardly call him a practicing Muslim and the country he created was simply called Pakistan. This Islamic Republic mumbo jumbo was added almost a decade after his death and the constitution which we all follow now was made by Zulfiqar Bhutto another Shia. And all these non sense blasphemy laws etc etc added by Zia decades after Jinnahs death.

Jinnah had a Ahamdi in his cabinet of only 8 ministers Jinnah made Pakistan for Muslims to practice Islam freely not for Islam.
 

Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Although it was one of the most important speeches he gave Its very hard to find now but I had it before and ill try to find it


I would really like to hear these speeches, and i am sure there is going to be a copy available (if u r sure) in audio or in written (surely someone would have printed it on newspaper etc)