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TONIC

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Stances of Faiths on LGBT Issues: Hinduism

Hinduism is one of the worlds oldest religions, and Hindus constitute a sixth of the worlds population today. Most Hindus live in India but there are about 1.5 million Hindus, both Indians and non-Indians, in the United States. As a result, homosexuality is a complex matter in Hinduism and depends heavily on cultural context and tradition.

Hinduism and Sexuality

Same sex desire and even sexual activity have been represented and discussed in Indian literature for two millennia, often in a nonjudgmental and even celebratory manner, according to Hindu scholar Ruth Vanita. For example, the erotic sculptures on ancient Hindu temples at Khajuraho and Konarak, and the sacred texts in Sanskrit constitute irrefutable evidence that a whole range of sexual behavior was known to ancient Hindus. The tradition of representing same-sex desire in literature and art continued in medieval Hinduism.

When Europeans arrived in India, they were shocked by Hinduism, which they termed idolatrous, and by the range of sexual practices, including same-sex relations, which they labeled licentious. British colonial rulers incorporated their homophobic prejudices largely attributed to certain Christian teachings into Indian education, law and politics. As a result, homosexuality was made illegal in 1861, when British rulers codified a law prohibiting carnal or lustful intercourse against the order of nature with any man, woman, or animal in other words, any sex that is not between a man and a woman with the aim of reproduction is outlawed. Thus, the marginal homophobic trend in pre-colonial India became dominant in modern India. Some Indian nationalists, including Hindus, internalized Victorian ideals of heterosexual monogamy and disowned indigenous traditions that contravened those ideals. Homosexuality remained a criminal offense in India until 2009 when New Delhis highest court deemed this colonial era law unconstitutional.

Homosexuality and Hindu Law

Ancient Hindu law books, from the first century onward, categorize non-vaginal sex (ayoni) as impure. But penances prescribed for same-sex acts are very light compared to penances for some types of heterosexual misconduct, such as adultery and rape.

For example, one Hindu text, the Arthashastra, an ancient Indian treatise on statecraft, economic policy, and military strategy, imposes a minor fine on a man who has ayoni sex. Modern commentators sometimes misread another text, the Manusmriti, the authoritative words of Brahma, interpreting its severe punishment of a womans manual penetration of a female virgin as suggesting that the text is anti-lesbian. In fact, however, the punishment is exactly the same for either a man or a woman who engages in this act, and it is related not to the partners genders but to the loss of virginity and marriageable status. The Manusmriti does not suggest punishing a woman who penetrates a female who is not a virgin, and the Arthashastra prescribes a negligible fine for this act.

The sacred Hindu epics and the Puranas, a compendia of devotional stories, contradict the law books. They depict gods, sages and heroes springing from ayoni sex. Ayoni sex never became a major topic of debate, nor was it categorized as an unspeakable crime.

There is no evidence of anyone in India ever having been executed for same-sex relations.

Sex and Gender

Hindu scriptures contain many surprising examples of diversity in both sex and gender. Many of the deities are androgynous and some even change gender in order to participate in homoerotic behavior. For instance, medieval texts narrate how the god Ayyappa was born of intercourse between the gods Shiva and Vishnu when the latter temporarily took a female form. A number of 14th-century texts in Sanskrit and Bengali (including the Krittivasa Ramayana, a devotional text still extremely popular today) narrate how hero-king Bhagiratha, who brought the sacred river ***** from heaven to earth, was miraculously born to and raised by two co-widows, who made love together with divine blessing. These texts explain that his name Bhagiratha comes from the word bhaga (vulva), because he was born of two vulvas.

Another sacred text, the fourth-century Kamasutra, emphasizes pleasure as the aim of intercourse. It categorizes men who desire other men as a third nature. The text goes on to subdivide such men into masculine and feminine types and describes their lives and typical occupations (including flower sellers, masseurs and hairdressers). The Kamasutra also includes a detailed description of oral sex between men and refers to long-term unions between male partners.

Hindu medical texts dating from the first century also provide taxonomies of gender and sexual variations, including same-sex desire.

Hijras: The Third Gender

Described as neither male nor female, but rather as a third-gender, hijras are traditionally depicted as a powerful force within Hinduism. Although no census data exists, it is estimated that over 2 million hijras reside in India. With a recorded history of more than 4,000 years, the power of the hijras as sexually ambiguous individuals can only be understood through the use of Hindu mythology.

In Hindu mythology, ritual, and art, the power of androgyny or sexual ambiguity is a frequent and significant theme. Bahuchara Mata, the main object of hijra veneration, is a version of the Mother Goddess, for whose sake they undergo emasculation. In return for their emasculation the Goddess gives them the power to bless people with fertility, granting them an important religious role in births and marriages. The ceremonies that hijras perform are called badhai as a reference to the gifts of cash and goods they receives as payment of these occasions. However, hijras are also thought to have the power to curse a familys fertility, explaining why they are often treated with a combination of mockery, fear and stigma forcing many to live in ostracized, poorer urban districts.

Though there are many similarities in gender variant experiences and identities between the hirja and MTF transgender communities, they are in fact separate and distinct. Unfortunately for both, due to the social stigma, the both communities have limited means of survival often restricted to performing badhai, begging, and sex work.

Until 2009 the hijra and the transgender community had few rights and were not recognized by Indian law. The Indian government, as of 2099, allows MTF transgender people to get identity cards stating their true gender as well as allows transgender people to receive sexual re-assignment surgery free of cost at government hospitals. In addition, the Election Commission of India added the option of using other on the voter ballet. Previously, the ballots forced transgender people and hijras to select either male or female.

Modern Trends and Views

There are now many Indian LGBT groups in the United States and in India, most of whose members are Hindu.

Some right-wing Hindu groups, active both in India and in the United States, have expressed virulent opposition to homosexuality. However, several modern Hindu teachers emphasize that all desire, homosexual or heterosexual, is the same, and that aspirants must work through and transcend desire. For example:

Hindu philosopher Jiddu Krishnamurti said that homosexuality, like heterosexuality, has been a fact for thousands of years, and that it becomes a problem only because humans focus too much on sex.
When asked about homosexuality, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, founder of the international Art of Living movement, said, Every individual has both male and female in them. Sometimes one dominates, sometimes other; it is all fluid.
Mathematician Shakuntala Devi, in her 1977 book The World of Homosexuals, interviewed Srinivasa Raghavachariar, head priest of the Srirangam temple. Raghavachariar said that same-sex partners must have been cross-sex partners in a former life. The sex may change, he said, but the soul retains its attachments; hence love impels them toward one another.
When, in 2002, Hindu scholar Ruth Vanita interviewed a Shaiva priest who had performed the marriage ceremony for two women, the priest said that having studied Hindu scriptures, he had concluded, Marriage is a union of spirits. And the spirit is not male or female.
As Amara Dasa, founder of Gay and Lesbian Vaishnava Association, noted in Tritiya-Prakriti: People of the Third Sex, several Gaudiya Vaishnava authorities emphasize that since everyone passes through various forms, genders and species in a series of lives, people should not judge each other by the material body but should view everyone equally on a spiritual plane and be compassionate, as God is.
Still, there is little discussion of this issue in most Hindu religious communities. Consequently, some teachers and lay followers retain their anti-gay beliefs. As a result, many LGBT Hindus have left their religious communities.

Indian newspapers, however, have reported several same-sex weddings and same-sex joint suicides over the last 25 years. These incidents have primarily involved female Hindu couples living in small towns and unconnected to any LGBT rights movement. Several weddings have taken place by Hindu rites, some with family support. The suicides often resulted from families forcibly separating same-sex partners. In Loves Rite: Same-Sex Marriage in India and the West, Ruth Vanita analyzes these phenomena.

The millennia-long debate in Hindu society over homosexuality, which was somewhat suppressed in the colonial period, is again becoming active. In 2004, Hinduism Today reporter Rajiv Malik asked several Hindu swamis (teachers) to describe their feelings about same-sex marriage. The swamis expressed a range of opinions, positive and negative. They felt free to differ with each other evidence of the liveliness of the debate, made possible by the fact that Hinduism has no one hierarchy or leader. As one swami, Mahant Ram Puri, remarked, We do not have a rule book in Hinduism. We have 100 million authorities.

Legal progress for LGBT individuals continues to be made in India. In 2009 New Delhis highest court decriminalized the colonial era law prohibiting homosexual activity. Chief Justice A.P. Shah and Justice S. Muralidhar declared:

The old law violates Article 14 of the Constitution, which guarantees all people equality before the law; Article 15, which prohibits discrimination on the grounds of religion, race, caste, sex or place of birth; and Article 21, which guarantees protection of life and personal liberty.

However, the decision to decriminalize homosexuality applies only in the territory of Indias capital city. This case is expected to continue at a national level forcing Indias government either to appeal the decision to the Supreme Court, or change the law nationwide.


http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/stances-of-faiths-on-lgbt-issues-hinduism
 

Zionist Hindu

Senator (1k+ posts)
I don't understand what you are trying to prove.I know Abrahamic religions frown upon sexual minorities.However, I am quite proud that Hinduism was so liberal so as to accommodate sexual minorities. Sexual minority is a natural phenomenon. It is wrong to prosecute such people. Hinduism is a dynamic religion. Lots of things have been added and taken out in last 1000's of years. So whats the problem?
 

TONIC

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I don't understand what you are trying to prove.I know Abrahamic religions frown upon sexual minorities.However, I am quite proud that Hinduism was so liberal so as to accommodate sexual minorities. Sexual minority is a natural phenomenon. It is wrong to prosecute such people. Hinduism is a dynamic religion. Lots of things have been added and taken out in last 1000's of years. So whats the problem?

Hinduism is dynamic enough to take stone as a God, I am not proving anything and I don't want to prove anything as Hinduism is not a religion but collection of different cultures if you want to understand Hinduism read Vedas and Upanishads that will tell you many things about Hinduism.
 

Zionist Hindu

Senator (1k+ posts)
Hinduism is dynamic enough to take stone as a God, I am not proving anything and I don't want to prove anything as Hinduism is not a religion but collection of different cultures if you want to understand Hinduism read Vedas and Upanishads that will tell you many things about Hinduism.

LOL Lets not go into bullsh1t of Stone is God or not. However, You are right in a way Hinduism has incorporated different beliefs and cultures in last 1000s of years. Yes Vedas are the source of Hinduism but there have been several books added to Hinduism including Gita which is also quite important. There are those who only believe in Vedas they are called Vedanta. I disagree that Hinduism is not a religion. Hinduism is probably oldest religion. Even though many religions have since come and gone, Hinduism is still going strong. That shows that Hinduism is dynamic religion to survive and be relevant even now. Hindus believe there can be different paths to God, people worship God according to their level of consciousness.
 

Zionist Hindu

Senator (1k+ posts)
By the way you seem to know a lot about what is religion and what is not. Can you clearly define me What is God and which religion is "true" religion with proof and logic? Can you even prove me that God exists?
 

TONIC

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
By the way you seem to know a lot about what is religion and what is not. Can you clearly define me What is God and which religion is "true" religion with proof and logic? Can you even prove me that God exists?

Now you are talking, every religion since start of mankind has one source only thing is that people have distorted it for personal gains and benefits till the advent of Islam which changed religion into a System (Political, Social, Economical & religious beliefs).

Regarding what is God ? Anyone or anything which fulfil below mentioned criteria is God

1. God is one and only (no associates)
2. God is not dependent on anyone or anything.
3. God was not given birth and God has not given birth
4. There is nothing that can be compared to God

If these criteria are fulfilled then it is God otherwise it is creation of God.

Can you prove me that God exist ? it means you are saying that you can't prove it !!!
 

Zionist Hindu

Senator (1k+ posts)
Now you are talking, every religion since start of mankind has one source only thing is that people have distorted it for personal gains and benefits till the advent of Islam which changed religion into a System (Political, Social, Economical & religious beliefs).

Even before Islam many cultures had Political, Social, Economical & religious beliefs corresponding to their times.

Regarding what is God ? Anyone or anything which fulfil below mentioned criteria is God

Who says so, Now you are projecting Abrahamic beliefs/culture to other religions. We are different, we see God in different ways according to our culture.


1. God is one and only (no associates) According to your religion!
2. God is not dependent on anyone or anything. According to your religion!
3. God was not given birth and God has not given birth According to your religion!
4. There is nothing that can be compared to God According to your religion!

If these criteria are fulfilled then it is God otherwise it is creation of God. According to your religion!

Even though I generally agree with your points, in essence Hinduism also teaches similar things, I don't believe in defining God and what he can or cannot do or what he is or is not.
Is there some one bigger than God who sets this criteria?
we Hindus believe in the following:
1) God is too big to confine in one religion or many.
2) There can't be right way or wrong way to worship god.
3) God has no preferred religion.
4) No one in this world has been able to define God If we could then it will not be God.
5) There is no such thing that God can not do.


Can you prove me that God exist ? it means you are saying that you can't prove it !!!
No I can't prove God exist, therefore it is called faith. My faith is that 'God' exits.
 

janijoker

Minister (2k+ posts)
India is poorer than Africa. According to latest World Bank report 77% population of India is living under poverty line. Politicians and beaurocrates of India are the most corrupt in the World. 700 million people have no toilet. Few super rich have most share of Indian GDP. Indian nation is the least generous that's why poor people of india are dying with hungar
 

TONIC

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
No I can't prove God exist, therefore it is called faith. My faith is that 'God' exits.

Now lets be honest, if Hindusim had Political, Economic & Social systems then why were they ruled by outsiders for thousands of years at least out of the last 1000 years it was ruled more then 90% of the time by outsiders so it seems Hinduism failed to provide any basis for being system.

"According to your religion" well you asked me definition of being God and I gave you description of being God as per my religion be specific don't ask vague questions and then question your own questions..


1) God is too big to confine in one religion or many.
(Yet you confine them in Idols which are man made)

2) There can't be right way or wrong way to worship god.
(So there should be no way to worship God ! and if so then why do you go and pray to Idols, do dandwats & sing shilokas and Bhajangs and as per your argument that is neither write and neither wrong way)

3) God has no preferred religion.
(If so then you can become Muslim as God has no preferred method according to you and you won't be penalized to become Muslim)

4) No one in this world has been able to define God If we could then it will not be God.
(I have just defined God and bring me anything or anyone who can fulfil that criteria I will accepts it as God)

5) There is no such thing that God can not do
(This is not a criteria as it is general statement)

I will sincerely advise you to read your Holy scriptures before you start talking I am 100% sure that you have not studied all the religious scriptures like Vedas, Upanishads etc that's why you can't describe anything specifically. Before starting any debate kindly ensure that you have sufficient knowledge from your own religion so that you can defend it.

Regarding proving weather God exist kindly watch below link as I can't write that much in this forum so here you go and it is told by someone who is Muslim in India

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xC51Yn4hgQ
Faith is important and so is to prove that it is genuine as if you can't prove your faith it is "Hunch" not a "Dogma".

On lighter side you are "Hindu Zionist" using Zion "Abrahamic faith" which shows that your religion is missing something which you have borrowed from "Abrahamic faith" and your ID is using picture of "Aamir Khan" which shows that your avatar is Muslim man
(clap)
 
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Zionist Hindu

Senator (1k+ posts)
India is poorer than Africa. According to latest World Bank report 77% population of India is living under poverty line. Politicians and beaurocrates of India are the most corrupt in the World. 700 million people have no toilet. Few super rich have most share of Indian GDP. Indian nation is the least generous that's why poor people of india are dying with hungar
Yes India has lots of problems and Indians are trying to make things right. I think they are in right direction. India is a massive country with diverse population. It will take time....
 

Zionist Hindu

Senator (1k+ posts)
Now lets be honest, if Hindusim had Political, Economic & Social systems then why were they ruled by outsiders for thousands of years at least out of the last 1000 years it was ruled more then 90% of the time by outsiders so it seems Hinduism failed to provide any basis for being system.

Well countries and cultures have ups and downs. Same case with countries like china or India. Persians were prosperous and had highly developed culture etc before it was captured by Arabs. No doubt subcontinent at that time was divided, weak and could not defend the onslaught of Islamic conquest. Why blame Hinduism for their defeat. Small Israel is thumping the nose of all Muslim Ummah for 60 years, does that mean Islam failed. British also ruled Arabs for 100's of years. Main thing is Hindus survived, now we are flourishing in every corner of the world. Muslims have destroyed all the cultures of the countries they captured, like persia but not successful in India.

"According to your religion" well you asked me definition of being God and I gave you description of being God as per my religion be specific don't ask vague questions and then question your own questions..

vague questions ? we are talking about God, how can I be specific?


1) God is too big to confine in one religion or many.
(Yet you confine them in Idols which are man made)

Again, anyone who knows iota of Hinduism , knows Idols are not god but they are considered as point of focus for prayers or meditation as we all Hindus know God has no form and is omnipotent. There are Hindus who pray to GOd through Idols and there are Hindus who don't , we have no concept of right or wrong Hindus we only differ according to our consciousness..There is no right or wrong way to worship GOd.

2) There can't be right way or wrong way to worship god.
(So there should be no way to worship God ! and if so then why do you go and pray to Idols, do dandwats & sing shilokas and Bhajangs and as per your argument that is neither write and neither wrong way)

I didn't say there should be no way. I just said no right way or wrong way. We worship God according to our tradition and culture. I like these colorful ways.....

3) God has no preferred religion.
(If so then you can become Muslim as God has no preferred method according to you and you won't be penalized to become Muslim)

Hinduism fits me like a glove. If I was born in Muslim family i would have been a Muslim and might even be defending my faith in this forum. As I was born in Hindu family I follow Hindu traditions. Hinduism gives me freedom to be Hindu or not be , there is no fair of hell or lust of heaven. Its very liberal just like me. I love all the colorful festivals and feel connected to this heritage that is oldest in the world.I like diversity.

4) No one in this world has been able to define God If we could then it will not be God.
(I have just defined God and bring me anything or anyone who can fulfil that criteria I will accepts it as God)

If you have defined God, then you must be as great as God. Good job. Ok lets see if there is anyone who can fit my criteria. God is one who can change my coffee which is in front of me to tea. Now tell me if there is any God who can do it I will start following him today.

5) There is no such thing that God can not do
(This is not a criteria as it is general statement)

One cannot be specific when talking about God my friend.

I will sincerely advise you to read your Holy scriptures before you start talking I am 100% sure that you have not studied all the religious scriptures like Vedas, Upanishads etc that's why you can't describe anything specifically. Before starting any debate kindly ensure that you have sufficient knowledge from your own religion so that you can defend it.

Can you tell me any Hindu who has read all the scriptures, there are 1000s of them. I am not a theologian I have day job too. I took from Hinduism as much I needed, may be when I retire I will be able to read more into it. I am satisfied for now with my level of knowledge.

Regarding proving weather God exist kindly watch below link as I can't write that much in this forum so here you go and it is told by someone who is Muslim in India

Zakir naik, common man you want me to educate through you tube. I have literally watched 100s of them including most of zakir naik. You can't give scientific proof of existence of God. Its like arguing God exists and Islam is the only true religion because Quran says so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xC51Yn4hgQ
Faith is important and so is to prove that it is genuine as if you can't prove your faith it is "Hunch" not a "Dogma".

Faith is important to some and not so important to others, there is no way to prove any faith as genuine. we are all atheist except our own religion. May be not so much in case of Hindus.

On lighter side you are "Hindu Zionist" using Zion "Abrahamic faith" which shows that your religion is missing something which you have borrowed from "Abrahamic faith" and your ID is using picture of "Aamir Khan" which shows that your avatar is Muslim man
(clap)
Since when ID started to mean something they can be easily changed from one to another. I can put zaid hamid or modi as my id or even adolf hitler. I like Amir khan, he is a good Indian. so why i being a hindu cannot put photo of a Muslim man (fellow Indian). I don't have issues with Muslims and I don't hate them.Do you really think it lowers me or Hinduism in any way? Regarding me borrowing zion, does your id which is borrowing 'tonic' from in English lowers Islam?
 
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janijoker

Minister (2k+ posts)
India is not on the right direction..illiterate people don't understand that they are increasing population on unprecedent level,that is the main reason of poverty increase. Caste system is main LAA.NAT of indian society. Dalits are living their lives worst than animals...Indian nation is notorious for rapes especialy among Western women...India does not seems to become richer country in foreseeable future....It is bigger economy than Turkey but GDP/ Capita and living standard of India is much lower than Turkey...Turkey,s average monthly income is more than several EU countries.Turkey must be role model for Pakistan.....India has nothing to show the World in terms of living standard,poverty reduction,human rights,better infrastructure and cleanliness.QUOTE=Zionist Hindu;1801344]Yes India has lots of problems and Indians are trying to make things right. I think they are in right direction. India is a massive country with diverse population. It will take time....[/QUOTE]
 

desicad

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Hinduism is dynamic enough to take stone as a God, I am not proving anything and I don't want to prove anything as Hinduism is not a religion but collection of different cultures if you want to understand Hinduism read Vedas and Upanishads that will tell you many things about Hinduism.
if you don't want to prove anything why are you so insecure and felt the need to start this thread?.......how does it matter to you whether one worships a stone or a wood as long as you are not forced to do the same?.......others can also say that islam is not a religion, but more of a political ideology than spritual and this ideology is all about power and numbers.........
 

desicad

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Well countries and cultures have ups and downs. Same case with countries like china or India. Persians were prosperous and had highly developed culture etc before it was captured by Arabs. No doubt subcontinent at that time was divided, weak and could not defend the onslaught of Islamic conquest. Why blame Hinduism for their defeat. Small Israel is thumping the nose of all Muslim Ummah for 60 years, does that mean Islam failed. British also ruled Arabs for 100's of years. Main thing is Hindus survived, now we are flourishing in every corner of the world. Muslims have destroyed all the cultures of the countries they captured, like persia but not successful in India.

Again, anyone who knows iota of Hinduism , knows Idols are not god but they are considered as point of focus for prayers or meditation as we all Hindus know God has no form and is omnipotent. There are Hindus who pray to GOd through Idols and there are Hindus who don't , we have no concept of right or wrong Hindus we only differ according to our consciousness..There is no right or wrong way to worship GOd.

I didn't say there should be no way. I just said no right way or wrong way. We worship God according to our tradition and culture. I like these colorful ways.....

Hinduism fits me like a glove. If I was born in Muslim family i would have been a Muslim and might even be defending my faith in this forum. As I was born in Hindu family I follow Hindu traditions. Hinduism gives me freedom to be Hindu or not be , there is no fair of hell or lust of heaven. Its very liberal just like me. I love all the colorful festivals and feel connected to this heritage that is oldest in the world.I like diversity.

Can you tell me any Hindu who has read all the scriptures, there are 1000s of them. I am not a theologian I have day job too. I took from Hinduism as much I needed, may be when I retire I will be able to read more into it. I am satisfied for now with my level of knowledge.

Zakir naik, common man you want me to educate through you tube. I have literally watched 100s of them including most of zakir naik. You can't give scientific proof of existence of God. Its like arguing God exists and Islam is the only true religion because Quran says so.

Faith is important to some and not so important to others, there is no way to prove any faith as genuine. we are all atheist except our own religion. May be not so much in case of Hindus.

If you have defined God, then you must be as great as God. Good job. Ok lets see if there is anyone who can fit my criteria. God is one who can change my coffee which is in front of me to tea. Now tell me if there is any God who can do it I will start following him today.


Since when ID started to mean something they can be easily changed from one to another. I can put zaid hamid or modi as my id or even adolf hitler. I like Amir khan, he is a good Indian. so why i being a hindu cannot put photo of a Muslim man (fellow Indian). I don't have issues with Muslims and I don't hate them.Do you really think it lowers me or Hinduism in any way? Regarding me borrowing zion, does your id which is borrowing 'tonic' from in English lowers Islam?
very well answered..........great job......
p.s.: you may wanna use darker font colour...........
 

TONIC

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Since when ID started to mean something they can be easily changed from one to another. I can put zaid hamid or modi as my id or even adolf hitler. I like Amir khan, he is a good Indian. so why i being a hindu cannot put photo of a Muslim man (fellow Indian). I don't have issues with Muslims and I don't hate them.Do you really think it lowers me or Hinduism in any way? Regarding me borrowing zion, does your id which is borrowing 'tonic' from in English lowers Islam?

Well countries and cultures have ups and downs. Same case with countries like china or India. Persians were prosperous and had highly developed culture etc before it was captured by Arabs. No doubt subcontinent at that time was divided, weak and could not defend the onslaught of Islamic conquest. Why blame Hinduism for their defeat. Small Israel is thumping the nose of all Muslim Ummah for 60 years, does that mean Islam failed. British also ruled Arabs for 100's of years. Main thing is Hindus survived, now we are flourishing in every corner of the world. Muslims have destroyed all the cultures of the countries they captured, like persia but not successful in India.

Hinduism was week because of your class system still you have untouchables in your society and yet untouchable were able to rule you and your ancestors for 1000 years what a disgrace !!! Iran accepted what was right , still in the world people talk about Greek & Persians for their philosophy and they accepted Islam philosophically also not like Hindus who know that stones can't do anything and yet treat it as God and put sweets, offerings & milk to the stone made god.

Regarding Israel 60 year rule over Muslims, check history since islam came and you will find that more then 90% of the time Muslims have ruled Jerusalem and we will take back what rightly belongs to us it's just a matter of time.

Why Hinduism was weak is because they use to live like animals and when you will live like animals you are bound to be ruled by humans who will store law and order.

vague questions ? we are talking about God, how can I be specific?

You can't be specific because you have no understanding of your religion go and read your Vadas it is written in your most prestigious Vadas that you can't have a picture or status which can define your god and yet you define it.

If you can't be specific then you don't need to put your arguments as that will show that you are just arguing for the sake of arguments.

Again, anyone who knows iota of Hinduism , knows Idols are not god but they are considered as point of focus for prayers or meditation as we all Hindus know God has no form and is omnipotent. There are Hindus who pray to GOd through Idols and there are Hindus who don't , we have no concept of right or wrong Hindus we only differ according to our consciousness..There is no right or wrong way to worship GOd
.


I didn't say there should be no way. I just said no right way or wrong way. We worship God according to our tradition and culture. I like these colorful ways.....

This tells that you don't have concept of god you have taken that concept just to satisfy your inner guilt which you have.

Regarding knowing that God is omnipotent "Yet you give it a shape" which shows that you can't even concentrate on the god as you need something to concentrate on, if their is no right or wrong way to worship god then your idols are neither right and nor wrong which means that you know at least that it is not "right" only thing you need to understand is that your Vadas say that creating idols is wrong...lol

Hinduism fits me like a glove. If I was born in Muslim family i would have been a Muslim and might even be defending my faith in this forum. As I was born in Hindu family I follow Hindu traditions. Hinduism gives me freedom to be Hindu or not be , there is no fair of hell or lust of heaven. Its very liberal just like me. I love all the colorful festivals and feel connected to this heritage that is oldest in the world.I like diversity.

Hinduism fits you like glove because it is not a religion it is personal creativity which you think is religion.

If your ancestors were wrong then is it necessary to be wrong in that manner if tomorrow one of your ancestor will commit sue side then you should also do that as it was done by your forefathers....what rubbish argument.

If you have defined God, then you must be as great as God. Good job
If you think I am god then go an commit sue side as you are arguing with what you think is god and that god is ordering you to take your own life...by the way I have done good job because I am specific and you can't give any reply to my criteria and you can't fit anything in that otherwise your whole sham religion will collapse.

. Ok lets see if there is anyone who can fit my criteria. God is one who can change my coffee which is in front of me to tea. Now tell me if there is any God who can do it I will start following him today.

Changing coffee into tea is what you want when god will want it it will do so not just because you want it, you can't dictate god for your choices and wants or can you !! if you can then ask your gods to raise the sun from west as my god raise it from east....Don't give me bullshit crap.

Can you tell me any Hindu who has read all the scriptures, there are 1000s of them. I am not a theologian I have day job too. I took from Hinduism as much I needed, may be when I retire I will be able to read more into it. I am satisfied for now with my level of knowledge.

That's the problem with Hinduism that it is baseless and because of that you can't agree on one thing, some will take rat as god, some will take cow as god , some will take human being as god, some will take sun as god and some will take their wish to be god.

So when you will turn in vegetable state at that time you will start to think about god as you have devoted best time of your life for personal gains...that is what i told you at first place that you have created your personal goal as your god.

Zakir naik, common man you want me to educate through you tube. I have literally watched 100s of them including most of zakir naik. You can't give scientific proof of existence of God. Its like arguing God exists and Islam is the only true religion because Quran says so.

Yes, Islam is only true religion and Yes islam also prove that God exists.

Faith is important to some and not so important to others, there is no way to prove any faith as genuine. we are all atheist except our own religion. May be not so much in case of Hindus.

Sometimes you claim faith is important sometime you are saying that it cannot be important for some, seems like you are totally confused. Try to makeup your mind and take another coffee.You need many more to reach a logical conclusion...ooh sorry Hinduism doesn't have any logic.

Since when ID started to mean something they can be easily changed from one to another. I can put zaid hamid or modi as my id or even adolf hitler. I like Amir khan, he is a good Indian. so why i being a hindu cannot put photo of a Muslim man (fellow Indian). I don't have issues with Muslims and I don't hate them.Do you really think it lowers me or Hinduism in any way? Regarding me borrowing zion, does your id which is borrowing 'tonic' from in English lowers Islam?

Yeah we all have seen greatness of Hindu India when they destroyed Babri mosque and yet you claim that it is peaceful and everything is right if so then why you destroyed a mosque reason is that deep down inside you are scared and you have desire to take revenge from Muslims for Muslim rule over Hindu majority India....don't worry we will rebuild Babri Masjid again and seem like you guys have forgotten Somnat Mandir,....before saying anything to Pakistan always remember one thing Hindus are only limited to india but we Muslims are not if you will ever think of destroying Pakistan you should also think that you will loose only Hindu country in the world and Muslims will only loose one country and that won't be a bad trade off if you are asking my opinion.

Last but not least kindly post something which has some base and which is specific otherwise don't waste my time.
 

TONIC

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
if you don't want to prove anything why are you so insecure and felt the need to start this thread?.......how does it matter to you whether one worships a stone or a wood as long as you are not forced to do the same?.......others can also say that islam is not a religion, but more of a political ideology than spritual and this ideology is all about power and numbers.........

DESICAD....don't get involved in something which you don't understand...I started this thread because their was an earlier thread deleted by administrator which was talking about Hindu guy who had sex with hindu god "Cow"

It doesn't matter to me if you want to worship anything that's your choice and your opinion....if you want to commit sue side it's perfectly fine with me I have no objections....

Islam is complete in every respect and is very specific, not like Hinduism which even can't decide what is god and what is not....lol

Power & Numbers yeah less then two hundred thousand men were able to rule India which was have population of forty crore....
 

mh.saghir

Minister (2k+ posts)
@TONIC
jo smjh may aa gya woh Khuda kiya hy!!!
God is free from all the logics, so stop explaining on what a God being is.

@Zionist Hindu
Islam is definitely a 'religion' and in essence a 'true religion'.
It not only sets a way of life for an individual by explaining one's rights and duties to others but also sets a way of life for a whole society as by giving the conduct for social life, its economic rules, its political system and many more. Not only it has given so many systems to seta human life straight but worships in Islam are set in a way that it strengthens the community, I am talking about 'Zakat' where rich distribute a certain share of their wealth in poor which, if followed in its true sense, will improve the whole society.
 
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