Political Asylum Denied !!!

YAHYA87

Senator (1k+ posts)
NO ... this is not because I don't have something living in India I won't want even lukewarm relations with them ... yes I agree good relations can solve a lot of problems but Altaf Hussein's approach to build good ties with india is wrong.

Then what approach you suggest other then People to people contacts????Building Nuclear arsenal and military 3-4 times bigger then India???
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Then what approach you suggest other then People to people contacts????Building Nuclear arsenal and military 3-4 times bigger then India???

You said it brotha. One day we shall be able to sustain that. A nation w/o its military superior to her adversaries is open to abuse from the adversaries. Look at the mighty power of the US and USSR. Soviets did not build their power wisely, they died.
 

GeoG

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
One thing I dont understand here is that hen Indian media is quoted it becomes propaganda and lie against Pakistan but when it comes to MQM it automatically becomes truth...Kia yeh khula tazaad nahi???

نہیں .......
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
The thing is that When you Start believing one SIDE AS LIE AND OTHER SIDE AS TRUE THEN THIS BECOMES A HYPOCRISY....If you think that they are Wrong in blaming Pakistan then you should also say they are wrong in giving News regarding MQM because even Altaf hussain also knows the wishes of his supporters and even he wont break things down on himself intentionally or unintentionally so what ever he said was surely misquoted
Have you ever heard of a phrase 'Seeing is believing'? I saw that video with my own eyes. Eyes do not lie. Now if AH baat ko baraber karna chahtey hain to thats different story and I do sympathize with him. But damage is done. Kaman sey nikla hua teer aur zuban sey nikli hui baat waapas naheen aati. Another member is right, you are an expert in twisting facts.


like many statements of Govt. leaders are misquoted for example Bashir Balour once said that "IF BLACKWATER EXIST THEN its is not working WITHIN GOVT.'s Jurisdiction" but lets see what journalist quoted that "Bashir Balour Said BLACKWATER EXIST IN PAKISTAN ILLEGALLY" just imagine this kind of things our media is doing then what else can we expect from this report???As the whole ALTAF HUSSAIN'S ADRESS IN INDIA WAS ITSELF INCOMPLETE and Altaf Hussain Further Said that "NOW PAKISTAN AND INDIA ARE REALITY AND THEY SHOULD ACCEPT EACH OTHER WITH OPEN ARMS" and as this is NOT IN THE INTEREST OF THEIR MEDIA POLICY so they CUT THIS part
...

Stick to the subject please

So even If I agree with your explanation then still the credibility of it is big ZERO as its written with one sided intention(pro India) by some Indian journalist....

I have a suggestion for you. You might have noticed that people (like myself) are not about to budge from our positions just like you are not wiling to listen to us or any thing that is against your leader.
Since you have been trying to your level best to convince us in favor of Ah, it would be fair to assume that you are staunchly pro- MQM and might even be an official of the party. You have not and will not be able to promote positive picture of our Pakistani brother Altaf Hussain. You have wste so much talents in coming up with ideas, formulate them in your head and post them here , yet all to no avail. Do yourself a favor and take a few days off from these pro-MQM articles. Sorta go on vacation w/o going any where, listen to some good ol Pakistani songs in my post titled Beauties Of Pakistan. The songs will warm up your blood and brighten up your Pakistani entity in your heart, increase love for the country.
Forget Ah, MQM for a just two days. Do something constructive. Brain is a terrible thing to waste.
Say to us look! I am trying to convince you that AH is a good Pakistani leader but you dont believe me. So you all go to hell and it dont matter to me where you believe me or not. I will still be a MQM supporter.
Isnt it a lot simple thing to do? Why is it so terribly important that we are convinced of your theories.

I hope you take my advice and consider us crazy and quit trying to convince us that AH and MQM is IT.
 

bons

Minister (2k+ posts)
Bhai loog yahan pay aik cheez jo likhi howi hai k Muhajir dobara Indian citizens banay k khuahishmand hain yeh mujhay mirch masala hi lag rahi hai kyun k yeh baat zaroor hai k Muhajir India ja k apnay heritage ko dekhnay k khuahishmand hain bilkul isi tarhan jis tarhan Indian Sindhi aur is k ilawa east Punjab mai rehnay walay loog apnay heritage ko dekhnay k khuahishmand hain lakin citizenship ka koi aisi soch nahi hai aur yeh mujhay lagta hai pori ki pori report koi Pakistan k khilaf propaganda karnay ka aik aur naya tareeqa hai jo Indian media karta hai....

Mujhay aik baat samajh nahi aai jis nay yeh sab post kia hai uski k waisay tu Indian media Pakistan k baray mai jo kuch bhi likhay jhoot hai aur propaganda hai lakin jab MQM ki bari aai tu yeh automatically Sach kaisay ho gaya/ho Jata hai????

Mohajir and MQM are two different things. Only MQM followers need a remote platform to destabilize Pakistan. They cannot achieve this by living in Pakistan.

Mohajirs are living in all areas of the country. I know many mohajirs families in Lahore who have merged there very well. No one call them mohajir. Actually there are very few mohajrs left. You can only find buzurg mohajirs who actually migrated from India. All of the new generation is born in Pakistan and we should not call them mohajirs. No Pakistani would ever long to live in India.
 

YAHYA87

Senator (1k+ posts)
Mohajir and MQM are two different things. Only MQM followers need a remote platform to destabilize Pakistan. They cannot achieve this by living in Pakistan.

Mohajirs are living in all areas of the country. I know many mohajirs families in Lahore who have merged there very well. No one call them mohajir. Actually there are very few mohajrs left. You can only find buzurg mohajirs who actually migrated from India. All of the new generation is born in Pakistan and we should not call them mohajirs. No Pakistani would ever long to live in India.

Are you really OK???Because I dont think you are reading the whole thing before posting as I have clearly explained in the post that you are quoting just read the whole post and then try to post your logic because you are completely misquoting it by just pointing out few words of my post instead of reading the whole thing...MQM and M7uhajir have many things in common if you talk about Karachi as MQM supporters are mostly Muhajirs(Urdu speaking+Memons) and the area where MQM enjoy one of the big support is called Lalu Khet which is the same area whos people sided with Fatima Jinnah and for that reason they were publicly shot by Gohar Ayub after winning election from there on a celebration....So dont tell me that it could get different because Muhajirs have supported MQM even in 1992 Army operation and now they support them even more because going towards National Politics....

Let me tell you about the history of this word "Muhajir" as this word was a RACIST SLUR which son of soil used for families who came from India just like in USA NEGRO is used for AFRICAN AMERICAN so this is not how Muhajirs ever represented themselves as Muhajirs always prefer to be called Pakistani instead of Muhajir or Sindhi but due to whole Pakistan had same kind of thoughts so in 1980s when the things start getting bad as discrimination reached at its peak then this angry community due to all the discrimination own this identity even though it was Racist Slur but It also have one good thing as not every Muhajir is Urdu speaking as their are some sizable numbers of Punjabi speaking and very large number of Gujrati speaking community also exist in Karachi who came from India so this word has accommodated all of them together...

You meet Muhajir family in Lahore so let me tell you here their is a hell of a difference there because Muhajirs based in Karachi are from different parts of India like UP, Bihar, Hyderabad Daccan, Maharashtra, Gujrat(Memons), Dehli, Agra are most notable places where Muhajirs of Karachi and Hyderabad trace their heritage but in Lahore and in other parts of Punjab all of them are Migrated from East Punjab and their are hardly many whom are from other areas of Pakistan because at the time of independence Muhajirs from else where were dumped to Karachi while Muhajirs from east Punjab were dumped to Punjab and Punjab based Muhajirs had no problems settling in Pakistan because they had same heritage as of natives while that story is completely opposite for Sindh based Muhajirs who trace their heritage from different areas of India and had different traditions then native population so this is a big difference between Punjab based Muhajirs and Sindh based Muhajirs....Sindh based Muhajirs have strong feeling for their family because most of them had got BLOOD RELATIVES in India so its like attending their funeral or marriages are also one kind of the good gesture just like in PUnjab when ever their is some especial occasion people whom even living in Canada or UK try to attend that in the same sense its their in Muhajirs as well from both sides not just Pakistan but also Indian Muslims....
 

stuburn1

Citizen
By Arun Rajnath

NEW DELHI, November 8: Somewhat intrigued by the indirect requests and appeals by visiting Pakistani MQM leader, Mr. Altaf Hussain, to grant political asylum to his supporters in India, the Indian Home Ministry has categorically rejected his emotional pleas.

Minister of State for Home Affairs, S. Reghupati told the South Asia Tribune: Such proposals are not viable or practical, and Mr. Hussain himself understands it. If we grant asylum to Pakistani Mohajirs (refugees), why not to Bangladeshis? Then we should also cease our actions of identifying illegal migrants from Bangladesh and we should open our doors for every Mohajir, and give them legal status.

Officials said in his meeting with the Indian Foreign Minister, Natwar Singh, Mr. Hussain requested that his supporters, the Mohajirs, be granted Long Term Visas (LTV) to live in India. He also requested the Indians to show leniency when considering such cases, especially of the Mohajir community, if they are legally entitled to get the Indian citizenship.

Indian analysts are scratching their heads to understand what it was that Mr. Hussain, now a key ally of the military government in Pakistan and having his own nominee as the all powerful Governor of Sindh, was talking about his supporters seeking political asylum in India. Was he expecting another crackdown any time soon?

These analysts think Mr. Hussains requests reflected a deep sense of insecurity and lack of confidence in the durability of the present Pakistani set up as Mr. Hussain was not only staying in self-imposed exile himself in UK but was even talking about a large number of his supporters running away from Pakistan to seek asylum in India, as chances of getting asylum in the US and UK had diminished after 9/11.

It may be of interest that during the past crackdowns on MQM in Pakistan, especially during operations launched by the Pakistan Army in the 90s, a huge number of MQM supporters fled the country and took asylum in US and UK, with some of them going to India as well, though there they stayed underground.

An understanding of any sort, if given to Mr. Hussain by the Indians, would result in a huge number of MQM supporters entering India through the large Pak-India border in Sindh and this prospect does not cheer up many in the policy making corridors in New Delhi, analysts say.

Despite being termed as Not War Singh by Mr. Hussain, Natwar Singh has given him no assurance of considering his plea to grant LTVs to Mohajirs to entitle them to live here for a longer period.

While talking about the internal conditions in Pakistan with Natwar Singh, Mr. Hussain expressed the desire of several Mohajirs to return to India. He told Mr. Singh the second generation of the Mohajir community was now facing the acrimonious fruit of the 1947 partition.

He also recited an Urdu couplet during his interaction with Natwar Singh: Yeh waqt bhi dekha hai taareekh ke safahon ne; Lamhon ne khata ki thi, sadiyon ne sazaa payee

(Annals of History have witnessed the phenomenon that blunders committed in a short span of time resulted in punishment for centuries)

Foreign Ministry officials told the South Asia Tribune Mr. Hussain had also revealed that a large number of his Mohajir community wanted to return to their roots, and most of them wanted their Indian citizenship back.

Though he did not directly request Natwar Singh to grant asylum to Mohajirs, he made it clear that this was exactly what he wanted. It would be a great service to humanity to be more lenient towards the Mohajirs. They should be given Long Term Visas, if asylum was a politically incorrect term at this time to use, he pleaded.

Asked to comment on the subject, Secretary, Minority Cell (Congress Party), Meem Afzal had different views: The new generation of the Pakistan Mohajirs does not wish to re-unite with India or return to their roots. Their counterparts in India also do not wish their relatives to come back from Pakistan to settle down in India. It is just a matter of a few years and after the end of the second generation or Altaf Hussains generation, the ghost of nostalgia will just disappear.

Apart from this some of the Mohajirs were declared dead in property documents/papers/ records at the time of the partition by other members of the family to protect their property from being taken over by Indian authorities. Those who stayed behind claimed full inheritance. If they or their children return to India, it would complicate matters a lot.

Mr. Afzal says that it takes 15-20 years for Pakistani women married to Indians to get citizenship of India. In this situation, how asylum could be granted to Mohajirs. Mr. Hussain has also made this point before Natwar Singh.

There are several such cases in Delhi and Uttar Pradesh. A Muslim girl of Old Delhi was married to a Pakistani boy, and subsequently became a Pakistani citizen. But after sometime, her husband divorced her, and she returned to India in 1990. Her Indian citizenship has not been restored till now despite all efforts.

Such women are deliberately being denied Indian citizenship. They have to struggle to get the validity-period of their visas to be extended, besides appearing before the local police station now and then. Intelligence agents also keep an eye on Pakistani nationals residing within their area.

The Government of India had virtually kept Altaf Hussain under room-arrest the whole day on November 6, and nobody was allowed to see him or his party men. Various government officials and security men paid visits to him the whole day. While sitting in the lobby of Mauriya Sheraton Hotel, this correspondent saw officials of the Indian intelligence watching every movement of Altaf Hussain.

An official was also posted at the Reception Counter of the hotel who used to ascertain the identity of all visitors for Altaf Hussain. No phone calls were allowed to his room from the Reception. The calls transferred to his room by phone operators were automatically diverted to the voice mailbox provided by the hotel to its guests. Mr. Hussain and his aides were given cellular phones with special numbers.

http://www.satribune.com/archives/nov04/P1_arun4.htm

indian official are clever they know that they can make mess in india the way they already made in pakistan......Although good informative post .
 

YAHYA87

Senator (1k+ posts)
I have a suggestion for you. You might have noticed that people (like myself) are not about to budge from our positions just like you are not wiling to listen to us or any thing that is against your leader.
Since you have been trying to your level best to convince us in favor of Ah, it would be fair to assume that you are staunchly pro- MQM and might even be an official of the party. You have not and will not be able to promote positive picture of our Pakistani brother Altaf Hussain. You have wste so much talents in coming up with ideas, formulate them in your head and post them here , yet all to no avail. Do yourself a favor and take a few days off from these pro-MQM articles. Sorta go on vacation w/o going any where, listen to some good ol Pakistani songs in my post titled Beauties Of Pakistan. The songs will warm up your blood and brighten up your Pakistani entity in your heart, increase love for the country.
Forget Ah, MQM for a just two days. Do something constructive. Brain is a terrible thing to waste.
Say to us look! I am trying to convince you that AH is a good Pakistani leader but you dont believe me. So you all go to hell and it dont matter to me where you believe me or not. I will still be a MQM supporter.
Isnt it a lot simple thing to do? Why is it so terribly important that we are convinced of your theories.

I hope you take my advice and consider us crazy and quit trying to convince us that AH and MQM is IT.

The reason why you people not about to budge is because of MQMs image of 1990s which was created by Army to get rid of MQM but sadly they failed after doing everything they could because they forget that genuine support cant be taken back by Force and they also forget that If they try to dictate people by punishing their elected representatives whom are elected by majority of people they wont get anything from that except failure...But they failed in Karachi but outside Karachi due to having few sources available for them(All of them controlled by Govt. themselves) they were able to create hatred among outside karachi about MQM...So that is the only reason why you people are Anti MQM but I am pro MQM because Being a Kracahiite I have seen what actually happened back then and also who are the real culprits as I was eye witness of many incident happened in Malir and also in Nazimabad...
Talking about me being an MQM staunch supporter yes you are correct I am Staunch MQM supporter but if you think I am also member of MQM then either you accept it or not I have NOTHING to do with MQM but Yes once went to MQM unit near my House for problem of my friend and found the Unit Incharge a nice person to talk to Unlike it is spread the rumors about them and my another interaction was when they came to area near my House due to having complains of Bhatta received on using their name but that experience was little different as they were very angry about that situation by saying that "We also get votes from same people and that person is ruining our name in front of people"...So in both occasions all I can say is that they are nice when with nice people but they are BAD WITH BAD PEOPLE...So its all depends on the people whom they are having Business with...That is my observation of them...Talking about convincing people about Positive of Altaf Hussain then all I am saying is that without having a point of view of a person who said all those things how can you blame him???At least let him explain what he said...He also said that Now Pakistan and India are reality and they should accept each other with open hands but because It wasnt according to Agenda of media who recorded Altaf Hussain's speech so it was EDITED you know how far media goes to present their point of view...Talking about Forgetting all those ideas then I am also happened to be student of Business administration and all the things that I am posting here are my free time because I am interested in Politics and I support MQM so that is why you see me here writing stuff and if you think I am wasting my time then tell me that how much you able to Counter my Arguments and presented your arguments in return???Not many times as the post that you are quoting here you couldnt able to counter that instead giving me your advice about what should I do and what shouldnt...

So if you are really interested in finding good leader for Pakistan then you have to evaluate everyone not just a one which you like by debating with suppoters of those leaders or at least voters of that leader just like me I had Voted for MQM and that was my first ever vote in my life so its my right to defend my vote as I havent voted MQM just cause I like it but it was because I believe in their abilities along with all the pros and cons they have and defending my vote for me is like my responsibility as if my VOTE COUNTS...That is why I am here defending MQM and if You think I am myself MQM member then that is up to you....
 

greywolf

Councller (250+ posts)
I have a suggestion for you. You might have noticed that people (like myself) are not about to budge from our positions just like you are not wiling to listen to us or any thing that is against your leader.
Since you have been trying to your level best to convince us in favor of Ah, it would be fair to assume that you are staunchly pro- MQM and might even be an official of the party. You have not and will not be able to promote positive picture of our Pakistani brother Altaf Hussain. You have wste so much talents in coming up with ideas, formulate them in your head and post them here , yet all to no avail. Do yourself a favor and take a few days off from these pro-MQM articles. Sorta go on vacation w/o going any where, listen to some good ol Pakistani songs in my post titled Beauties Of Pakistan. The songs will warm up your blood and brighten up your Pakistani entity in your heart, increase love for the country.
Forget Ah, MQM for a just two days. Do something constructive. Brain is a terrible thing to waste.
Say to us look! I am trying to convince you that AH is a good Pakistani leader but you dont believe me. So you all go to hell and it dont matter to me where you believe me or not. I will still be a MQM supporter.
Isnt it a lot simple thing to do? Why is it so terribly important that we are convinced of your theories.

I hope you take my advice and consider us crazy and quit trying to convince us that AH and MQM is IT.



(clap)(clap)(clap)(clap)(clap)

and the response you get [hilar][hilar][hilar]

aapke saath yehi hona thaa ... :(
 
M

Murshad Jee

Guest
Well what's wrong with that. We know Muhajirs are the one who do Hijrat and then eventually go back. Look at the Muhajareen of Makkah. So if Altaf Bhai and his followers want to go back they are more than welcome. Guys Pakistan doesn't need you and by the looks of the above article, neither does India. Dhobi ka ***** na ghar ka na ghaat ka

Only Altaf and his cronies not every single mohajir who came at the time of partition.

So, Please mind your language when you pass any remarks about Mohajirs.
 

bons

Minister (2k+ posts)
Are you really OK???Because I dont think you are reading the whole thing before posting as I have clearly explained in the post that you are quoting just read the whole post and then try to post your logic because you are completely misquoting it by just pointing out few words of my post instead of reading the whole thing...MQM and M7uhajir have many things in common if you talk about Karachi as MQM supporters are mostly Muhajirs(Urdu speaking+Memons) and the area where MQM enjoy one of the big support is called Lalu Khet which is the same area whos people sided with Fatima Jinnah and for that reason they were publicly shot by Gohar Ayub after winning election from there on a celebration....So dont tell me that it could get different because Muhajirs have supported MQM even in 1992 Army operation and now they support them even more because going towards National Politics....

Let me tell you about the history of this word "Muhajir" as this word was a RACIST SLUR which son of soil used for families who came from India just like in USA NEGRO is used for AFRICAN AMERICAN so this is not how Muhajirs ever represented themselves as Muhajirs always prefer to be called Pakistani instead of Muhajir or Sindhi but due to whole Pakistan had same kind of thoughts so in 1980s when the things start getting bad as discrimination reached at its peak then this angry community due to all the discrimination own this identity even though it was Racist Slur but It also have one good thing as not every Muhajir is Urdu speaking as their are some sizable numbers of Punjabi speaking and very large number of Gujrati speaking community also exist in Karachi who came from India so this word has accommodated all of them together...

You meet Muhajir family in Lahore so let me tell you here their is a hell of a difference there because Muhajirs based in Karachi are from different parts of India like UP, Bihar, Hyderabad Daccan, Maharashtra, Gujrat(Memons), Dehli, Agra are most notable places where Muhajirs of Karachi and Hyderabad trace their heritage but in Lahore and in other parts of Punjab all of them are Migrated from East Punjab and their are hardly many whom are from other areas of Pakistan because at the time of independence Muhajirs from else where were dumped to Karachi while Muhajirs from east Punjab were dumped to Punjab and Punjab based Muhajirs had no problems settling in Pakistan because they had same heritage as of natives while that story is completely opposite for Sindh based Muhajirs who trace their heritage from different areas of India and had different traditions then native population so this is a big difference between Punjab based Muhajirs and Sindh based Muhajirs....Sindh based Muhajirs have strong feeling for their family because most of them had got BLOOD RELATIVES in India so its like attending their funeral or marriages are also one kind of the good gesture just like in PUnjab when ever their is some especial occasion people whom even living in Canada or UK try to attend that in the same sense its their in Muhajirs as well from both sides not just Pakistan but also Indian Muslims....

Yahya Sahib,

I am perfectly well and whatever I wrote you should read it without any prejudice. I was born and raised in Karachi and spent 25 years in Karachi. Main APMSO aur MQM ki rag rag se waqif hoon. Jo zeher in logon ne youngsters ke zehnon main ghol dia hay woh bara khatarnaak hay. Jitni ziadtian APMSO aur MQM ne punjabis aur pakhtoons se ki hain muje woh bhool nahi sakteen. The sole reason of leaving Karachi and settling in Lahore was MQM's bhatta khori and ghunda gardi.

MQM and muhajirs (I don't consider anyone muhajis who is born in Pakistan) have nothing in common. MQM is a mafia whereas muhajirs are peaceloving people. I have many urdu speaking friends in Karachi. Most of them are running their own businesses. None of them support MQM but they can't utter a word against MQM. You know MQM has killed many of its own workers for raising their voices against peer sahib. Do some research on assassination of Azeem Ahmed Tariq.

There is no difference in mohajirs of Punjab and Karachi. All the migrants who came to Punjab were not from East Punjab. There are many Urdu speaking families who have learned Punjabi and are living there without any problem (because MQM is not present in Punjab). They still follow their own heritage in clothing and weddings etc. Thay also have their BLOOD RELATIVES in India. So what's the difference? No difference. Only MQM is the difference which was trying to exploit the hardships of people of Karachi on the name of word muhajir but they failed in their evil designs. Now MQM never talk for muhajir, instead they speak of middleclass. Abhi pata nahi in ka agla naara kia ho ga.

Jitna nuqsaan MQM ne Karachi ka kia hay na to kisi aur ne kia hay aur na hi kar sakay ga.
 

greywolf

Councller (250+ posts)
Beyond Reasonable Doubt !!!

Dr. Shahid Qureshi of London Post has also broken the news in his own words ... and it is the same story that I referred to in the start of this post by Arun Rajnath and which MQM supporters defied dismissively ... now it is established beyond reasonable doubt as the same story is also covered by London Post ... both coverages have different wordings and there is no copy-cat transcript. Look at it here:


http://www.thelondonpost.net/DSQ20JAN20100065.html
 

Ammad Hafeez

Minister (2k+ posts)
Dr. Shahid Qureshi of London Post has also broken the news in his own words ... and it is the same story that I referred to in the start of this post by Arun Rajnath and which MQM supporters defied dismissively ... now it is established beyond reasonable doubt as the same story is also covered by London Post ... both coverages have different wordings and there is no copy-cat transcript. Look at it here:


http://www.thelondonpost.net/DSQ20JAN20100065.html

Reality of London Post
 

sok

Senator (1k+ posts)
Guys first of all I am very sorry. I forgot to check the thread and apparently my post was liked and hated at the same time. So here is my response.

@mehwish_ali
I am sorry that I have to reply in English. I am very good at Urdu but can't type it. I am not saying ***** to all the Mohajirs. My post clearly says Altaf Bhai and his followers who want to GO back to India. And I was merely responding to his views.

@hassam
Mate this report might have been fabricated but I have seen the video myself where Altaf says that the independence of Pakistan was the biggest blunder. I am a proud Pakistani. 63 years down the road and you people are still Mohajirs and not Pakistanis. See the difference?

@murshad jee
I did refer to Altaf and his followers. Please check the post again.

And to all the Mohajirs, Pakistan has been there for 63 years. If you are still Mohajirs and not Pakistanis then yes my posts refers to you.
 

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