Pakistan's economic story in One picture !

[PIND-WALA]

And europe and the so called scandinavian countries have not flourished because of american securiy ?

They were also part of broader network and coalition partner.

 

[Beef.Bhaijan]

You see even in a Muslim country running on a corrupt and rotten democratic system christians and other minorities can goto Temples, churches and other places of worship.

We are not like that New Zealand Mosque t3rrorist or that Canadiaan Mosque shooter where people walk into our minority places of worship and gun them down.

Or like a so called democracy called endia where having a beef burger can land you a death sentence vigilante style...

This is where only the people are spiritual, Imagine if the government was spiritual too..

Spirituality is personal choice of every person. There is no restrictions on this in Democracy. Everyone is free to go to their mosques, temples and Churches in Sweden. You cannot force anything on any person like ISIS tried to do.

 

[Beef.Bhaijan]

Security Apparatus ? You mean the one by the civilian government too right ? Like the failure when the sri lankan team got attacked under ??

Oh i forgot to mention Pakistan Army must have arranged for that debacle to happen as well right ?

How can the infallible civilian security apparatus make a mistake ?? - NO i dont believe it !

Guys like Kalbushan in Pakistan is actually a failure of our security apparatus. All other examples you qouted are the world events which do shape up countries path but despite all those , Army has no right to dictate to NAB and courts and use them as blackmail tool.

 

[Vitamin_C]

People in the govt are allowed to be spiritual all they want, but the running of the government should be based on economics and politics that are performing the best in the 21st century and have evidence behind them. Its the personal choice of every person and should not be forced on society as a whole.

You see even in a Muslim country running on a corrupt and rotten democratic system christians and other minorities can goto Temples, churches and other places of worship.

We are not like that New Zealand Mosque t3rrorist or that Canadiaan Mosque shooter where people walk into our minority places of worship and gun them down.

This is where only the people are spiritual, Imagine if the government was spiritual too..

 

[Beef.Bhaijan]

Performing best ?...Dude where do you get your facts from ?

EVERY MAJOR COUNTRY is drowning in DEBT !.....You call that economics ???

Every Major economy barring the ones enslaving their people to manufacturing are either heavily indebt while only making interest payments and the thought of paying the principal is no where near ??

Exploitation of material and non material resources is at epic proportions leading to abuse of everything from humanity to the environment !

Poverty is growing at astronomical rates ! The so called modern economic and financial setup cannot sustain inflation !

The banking system have collapsed the US sub prime crisis was an excellent example of BUBBLES being created by fake fiat money ?

ONLY a FOOL can call this progress.. I call it HOGWASH and a train wreck waiting to happen !

People in the govt are allowed to be spiritual all they want, but the running of the government should be based on economics and politics that are performing the best in the 21st century and have evidence behind them. Its the personal choice of every person and should not be forced on society as a whole.

 

[Beef.Bhaijan]

Dude, you cant be a Human Being without spirituality because to be a human you need two things :

1. A body

2. A spirit

If you cant be a Human without spirituality how can you have a government which manages humans without spirituality is beyond me.

It is the absence of spirituality which is the root cause of all evils!

QUOTE="Vitamin_C, post: 5354565, member: 28598"]
People in the govt are allowed to be spiritual all they want, but the running of the government should be based on economics and politics that are performing the best in the 21st century and have evidence behind them. Its the personal choice of every person and should not be forced on society as a whole.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Vitamin_C]

Sweden:
Life expectancy: 82.2 years
Employment rate: 94%
Gdp per capita: $54,000
Literacy rate: 99%+

Statistics and facts speak louder than BS.

Also debt is not a bad thing for European countries. They get very low interest rates and its actually a privilege. For example if you can borrow money at 1% and reinvest it for a 10% return then it means its good to have that debt. This is basic economics.

Performing best ?...Dude where do you get your facts from ?

EVERY MAJOR COUNTRY is drowning in DEBT !.....You call that economics ???

Every Major economy barring the ones enslaving their people to manufacturing are either heavily indebt while only making interest payments and the thought of paying the principal is no where near ??

Exploitation of material and non material resources is at epic proportions leading to abuse of everything from humanity to the environment !

Poverty is growing at astronomical rates ! The so called modern economic and financial setup cannot sustain inflation !

The banking system have collapsed the US sub prime crisis was an excellent example of BUBBLES being created by fake fiat money ?

ONLY a FOOL can call this progress.. I call it HOGWASH and a train wreck waiting to happen !

 

[Beef.Bhaijan]

UAE

Life Expectancy : 77.26 years
Employment rate : 98.6%
GDP Per capita : $68,000
Literacy rate : 99%

Debt to GDP = 19 % compared to 40 % of the GDP for sweden

No democracy !

Sweden:
Life expectancy: 82.2 years
Employment rate: 94%
Gdp per capita: $54,000
Literacy rate: 99%+

Statistics and facts speak louder than BS.

Also debt is not a bad thing for European countries. They get very low interest rates and its actually a privilege. For example if you can borrow money at 1% and reinvest it for a 10% return then it means its good to have that debt. This is basic economics.

 

[Beef.Bhaijan]

Debt is a horrible thing. You can let the europeans pay it. BUt what if you want to stand on your own feet ?

Good morals say that being Human Beings we should help each other by lending money on the basis of PARTNERSHIP in Profit and Loss - NOT interest!

This brings spirituality back in Business!..But capitalism doesnt believe in all of this !

Sweden:
Life expectancy: 82.2 years
Employment rate: 94%
Gdp per capita: $54,000
Literacy rate: 99%+

Statistics and facts speak louder than BS.

Also debt is not a bad thing for European countries. They get very low interest rates and its actually a privilege. For example if you can borrow money at 1% and reinvest it for a 10% return then it means its good to have that debt. This is basic economics.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Yes Debt is a horrible thing for poor countries like Pakistan that have to pay high interest rates. But its a luxury for Scandinavian countries with high credit ratings and they can get very low interest rates.

This is because of the principle of Risk and Reward. More risky investments requires more return for investors. Less risky investments require less return. So investing in Pakistani bonds is risky so investors want more interest. Investing in German bonds is less risky so investors require less interest.

So if there is a wind farm project in Germany that gives the govt 10% return, and if govt issues bonds at 1% interest, then the govt is benefiting 9% from issuing those bonds. So for Germany Debt is a good thing as it provides the government with great leverage.

Debt is a horrible thing. You can let the europeans pay it. BUt what if you want to stand on your own feet ?

Good morals say that being Human Beings we should help each other by lending money on the basis of PARTNERSHIP in Profit and Loss - NOT interest!

This brings spirituality back in Business!..But capitalism doesnt believe in all of this !

 

[expert analysis]

Where is PTI bar graph in this graph

 

[miafridi]

Sharif's and Zardari's have destroyed the country, only their personal businesses have grown many fold.

 

[Beef.Bhaijan]

Yeah good for you. Keep on enjoying the risk and reward and continue to invest in debt. Italy, spain, portugal and much of Europe and european economies are actually on a decline because of this High-debt, high interest cycle.

Risk and reward can also be shared by parties without interest. But again you have a way of doing things keep on doing that.

We dont want such rewards and the quicker Pakistan gets rid of this economic based system of interest the better.

Yes Debt is a horrible thing for poor countries like Pakistan that have to pay high interest rates. But its a luxury for Scandinavian countries with high credit ratings and they can get very low interest rates.

This is because of the principle of Risk and Reward. More risky investments requires more return for investors. Less risky investments require less return. So investing in Pakistani bonds is risky so investors want more interest. Investing in German bonds is less risky so investors require less interest.

So if there is a wind farm project in Germany that gives the govt 10% return, and if govt issues bonds at 1% interest, then the govt is benefiting 9% from issuing those bonds. So for Germany Debt is a good thing as it provides the government with great leverage.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Again as I have already said. Deb is a priveledge for richer economies and a curse for poor economies. Germany has one of the highest debts in Europe, show me any economic article that says that German economy is shrinking because of debt?

Its not that you dont want rewards, its basic human behaviour that you wont take big risks if the potential reward from those risks is not proportionally higher aswell.

So even if you bring profit sharing, individual investors and institutions will invest their money in overseas bonds as it is less risky and provides a better and more stable return. This is jahilana Zia type policy who doesnt understand implication of policy decisions.

Yeah good for you. Keep on enjoying the risk and reward and continue to invest in debt. Italy, spain, portugal and much of Europe and european economies are actually on a decline because of this High-debt, high interest cycle.

Risk and reward can also be shared by parties without interest. But again you have a way of doing things keep on doing that.

We dont want such rewards and the quicker Pakistan gets rid of this economic based system of interest the better.

 

[Beef.Bhaijan]

BUddy dont try to swing the topic. You very well know what the state of most of the european economies are.

MOST of all the governments are running on DEBT . MOst of their lifestyles are un-sustainable !

You keep on touting some investors and their safety in bonds as if its something great.

Economies dont shrink because of debt its debt payments of interest and principal which take up most of the earnings and give it to a handful of these so called investors. If they had a hand in loss and profit without interest then people of a country and the investors would both gain and lose money as opposed to the investors sitting in their safety while the entire country and its population goes to the dogs if these so called investment projects fail due to a corrupt political setup.

You can continue to tout and follow an economic model which leads to stagnant growth, inflation, debt ridden and overly reliant on debt with a growth rate of 2 % barely and a declining population while i will follow a man whose GDP growth rate is documented to be well over 7 %, characterized by low taxes and debt and a reliance on profit sharing as opposed to any other way!

Again as I have already said. Deb is a priveledge for richer economies and a curse for poor economies. Germany has one of the highest debts in Europe, show me any economic article that says that German economy is shrinking because of debt?

Its not that you dont want rewards, its basic human behaviour that you wont take big risks if the potential reward from those risks is not proportionally higher aswell.

So even if you bring profit sharing, individual investors and institutions will invest their money in overseas bonds as it is less risky and provides a better and more stable return. This is jahilana Zia type policy who doesnt understand implication of policy decisions.

 

[Vitamin_C]

You are trying to make it seem that debt for rich european countries is a bad thing which its not. As I have demonstrated 5 times already. It offers leverage to the government to invest in infrastructure projects and get a higher return than the interest rates it pays.

We are not talking about poorer European countries we are talking about Germany and Scandinavian countries that are a model for democracies. So dont try to change the topic to something that is easier for you to defend. Show me any article that says Germany and Scandinavia, countries with highest debt in Europe are struggling because of debt?

If debt is sk bad for them how come they have the most advanced economies in the workd with highest life expectancy, living standards and gdp per capita? Despite Germant being heavily debted by WWII penalties?

Your logic falls on its face, I can see that you have neither understanding nor any interest in economics because if you did there is a model that is proven to work in 21st century but you will plug our ears and close your eyes because your real motives are to worship zia and his violent version of extremist Islam in which innocent civilians of Gilgit are raped and butchered. May he rest in pieces that filthy pig.

BUddy dont try to swing the topic. You very well know what the state of most of the european economies are.

MOST of all the governments are running on DEBT . MOst of their lifestyles are un-sustainable !

You keep on touting some investors and their safety in bonds as if its something great.

Economies dont shrink because of debt its debt payments of interest and principal which take up most of the earnings and give it to a handful of these so called investors. If they had a hand in loss and profit without interest then people of a country and the investors would both gain and lose money as opposed to the investors sitting in their safety while the entire country and its population goes to the dogs if these so called investment projects fail due to a corrupt political setup.

You can continue to tout and follow an economic model which leads to stagnant growth, inflation, debt ridden and overly reliant on debt with a growth rate of 2 % barely and a declining population while i will follow a man whose GDP growth rate is documented to be well over 7 %, characterized by low taxes and debt and a reliance on profit sharing as opposed to any other way!

 

[Beef.Bhaijan]

It is a Bad thing because in the long run it doesnt work. There maybe a short term benefit but the accumulated debt burden is left for someone down the road pick up!

The richest economy is the United States which under documented sources has a debt of around 90 trillion not accounting state debts.

The principal is out of the question, even paying the interest will soon require a TRILLION dollars . How does the US plan on paying this debt ?

If this was so beneficial , why is an increase in taxes and inflation imminent ?

If this is the condition under the richest economy, which has an undue advantage because of its currency being the reserve currency i hate to imagine what would be the fate of other economies where this advantage doesnt exist.

Show me how can the US paydown its debt of 90 trillion along with a trillion in interest payments without raising Taxes or inducing hyperinflation to take the losers way out !

PLease propose a solution as the entire western world will be watching your answer!

You are trying to make it seem that debt for rich european countries is a bad thing which its not. As I have demonstrated 5 times already. It offers leverage to the government to invest in infrastructure projects and get a higher return than the interest rates it pays.

We are not talking about poorer European countries we are talking about Germany and Scandinavian countries that are a model for democracies. So dont try to change the topic to something that is easier for you to defend. Show me any article that says Germany and Scandinavia, countries with highest dent in Europe are struggling because of debt?

 

[Vitamin_C]

Again you are changing topic. Lets go back to Germany and Scandinavia that I propose to model our democracy on? Show me how their economy is suffering from debt? Link me to any economic article?

If all you really want is to worship zia and you have no real interest in economics that just say it and be honest about it, you wont fool anyone here as we can see through the BS.

It is a Bad thing because in the long run it doesnt work. There maybe a short term benefit but the accumulated debt burden is left for someone down the road pick up!

The richest economy is the United States which under documented sources has a debt of around 90 trillion not accounting state debts.

The principal is out of the question, even paying the interest will soon require a TRILLION dollars . How does the US plan on paying this debt ?

If this was so beneficial , why is an increase in taxes and inflation imminent ?

If this is the condition under the richest economy, which has an undue advantage because of its currency being the reserve currency i hate to imagine what would be the fate of other economies where this advantage doesnt exist.

Show me how can the US paydown its debt of 90 trillion along with a trillion in interest payments without raising Taxes or inducing hyperinflation to take the losers way out !

PLease propose a solution as the entire western world will be watching your answer!

 

[Beef.Bhaijan]

lol...hahaha...so you have as usual No answer to the problems in the system you tout so why blame others when you cant fix your own mess ?

Now, Germany is on the same path as the US and much of the western world . The Debt there is also reaching 60 % of the GDP which although has come down from 76 % is slated to go right back up in the wake of newly enacted environmental laws that curtail emissions and thereby production.

Germany with a measly 1.5% growth rate cannot sustain taking on more debt and then paying it off later. It took them more than 5 decades to bring the debt down by only 15 %

With other manufacturing powerhouses reaching perfection in luxury car imports, germany will either have to comprise on price or quality if it wants to compete in its prized export oriented economy.

When it does compromise, there will be more debt thrown into the equation just like the US and other highly debt ridden countries. to maintain there standard of living Even now, greece and soon Italy are another prime examples of this debacle.

Germany or any country is a classic example of how debt ridden economic system is nothing more than a recipe for disaster!

Again you are changing topic. Lets go back to Germany and Scandinavia that I propose to model our democracy on? Show me how their economy is suffering from debt? Link me to any economic article?

If all you really want is to worship zia and you have no real interest in economics that just say it and be honest about it, you wont fool anyone here as we can see through the BS.