Pakistani cousin marriage genetic disorders in UK

Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
The following is a video of modern day slavery in an Arab country.

Do you think its right because it is permitted by your interpretation of your religion?

Bukhari (41.598) - Slaves are property. They cannot be freed if an owner has outstanding debt, but can be used to pay off the debt.

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:)
 
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Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)

Basically your argument starts with, that because its your religious belief that cousin marriages are not harmful therefore it is not harmful. That point of view is unscientific as your personal religious beliefs have no bearing on truth or reality.
Here is definition of Faith:
strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

But the problem is that scientific study (As well as any intelligent and rational person) requires scientific proof or evidence.


Everything else you said about genetics is just water on water in context of the video. Detailed explanation of genetics has no relation to the video because the video gives statistics that Pakistani newborns are 30times more likely to have genetic disorders than any other new borns. The article does not mention it anywhere, nor does it explain why it is the case. What I want to hear is things like, the statistics are not true, or if they are true, why so? Are Pakistanis genetically inferior to other nations which is why they are 30 times more likely to be born with genetic diseases. Also why are we talking about Genetic disorders in particular, why are Pakistanis not born 30 times more likely with other diseases as well? Doesn't that mean it has something to do with the parents and not the race? Why is it the case that Amish have the same genetic disorders? Don't you see the common cause is the first cousin marriage? I hope you dont want me to lecture you on Humes method of causality as I assume you went to a college and were educated on it.
Also if you believe that the royal families do not have significantly higher genetic disorders than the general public then it means that either you ignored to do your research or you are being dishonest.
http://www.neatorama.com/2014/05/09/Inbreeding-A-Royal-Mess/

If you want to quote an article, quote a scientific academic article not some diarrhea from a hysterical and delusional molvi. I do not have patience for stupidity, if you want to respond, then respond on the topic and logically explain to me the logic behind the 30 times statistic and why do you think it is incorrect.

 
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Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
​Read on........

Marriage between first cousins

Renowned UK doctors certify this practice to be medically perfect


Could you care to share the names of these renowned doctors? I hope its actual scientific doctors and not its not a bunch of delusional molvis, lying and twisting information as always.

Now let us look examine some facts and figures. The highest number of congenital deformity and very serious ones (involving brain) is found in Western people where there e is no marriage between cousins and close relatives. I have attended thousands of deliveries in operation theatre in UK and first question the mother asks " Is he/ she OK and normal"? I used to be surprised by this question , then I was told that there are frequent incidences of abnormal births in Caucasians. The incidence is far fewer amongst Muslims, married to close relatives or outside. Hindus don't get married to relatives and they have fair number of children born with congenital abnormalities.

Yes of course lets look at some facts and figures... Where are they? any links? Any scientific article? or a medical journal? Or is another piss in the sand out of nowhere.

I am married to first cousin. Alhamdolillah , I have 4 children and none of them have any physical , mental or intellectual disability, Alhamdolillah. There are quite a few friends of mine who are married to first cousins and their children have ended up in Oxford and Cambridge and are in top positions and have no abnormality. On the other hand I also know couple of other Muslim friends who were married totally outside ( not even a distant genetic link) and unfortunately they had child without any brain. The genetic medical theory is not backed up by facts on the ground.
"Because a friend of mine married to his cousin has intelligent offspring. Therefore all cousin couples have offspring that are intelligent."
This is a classical fallacy of hasty generalization. Its like saying I know a friend who owned a Toyota corolla. Because his Toyota corolla broke down, therefore I think all toyota corolla are very unreliable cars.
It does not prove anything!


(B) Dr. Khalid Khan, one of the youngest doctors to become a consultant in UK, writes

I will confine myself purely to the scientific side of the issue in general terms. Clearly the appropriateness of a given rishta is something only you and Aunty are in a position to judge. Furthermore, as a basic premise that which is permitted and done by our beloved Nabi (saw) cannot and is not harmful or undesirable.
How is that a Scientific premise?


 
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moazzamniaz

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
کزن میرج میں بہت سے طبی مسلے ہو سکتے ہیں، اسلیے اس سے بچنا چاہیے. پیدائشی نقائص کے علاوہ ریٹینوبلاسٹوما(آنکھوں کا کینسر) جیسے بہت سے کینسر ہیں جو کزن میرج کی وجہ سے بہت زیادہ تعداد میں ہوتے ہیں. ہیموفیلیا جیسی بیماریاں ہیں جو کزن میرج کی وجہ سے جنم لیتی ہیں

دوسرا، یہ بڑھی ہی مضحکہ خیز بات ہے جب ہم ایک مثال لیکر اسکو سات ارب انسانوں پر اپلائی کرنا شروع کر دیتے ہیں. جن خاندانوں میں بیماریوں، پیدائشی نقائص اور جینز سے منتقل ہونے والے کینسرز کے گندے جینز نہیں ہیں، ظاہر ہے ان خاندانوں میں کزن مرج سے کوئی طبی رسک نہیں ہے. یا تو پھر بندہ اپنے خاندان کے جینز چیک کرواتا پھرے وگرنہ دوسرا صحتمند اصول یہی ہے کہ کزن میرج سے ھر ممکن احتراز کرنا چاہیے

خدا نے کہیں نہیں کہا کہ کنویں میں جان بوجھ کر چھلانگ لگا دو. جب تک پتہ نہیں تھا تو ٹھیک ہے، اب مستند ریسرچ سے ثابت ہو گیا ہے تو کزن میرج سے بچنا چاہیے. میں نے ایسی پوری کی پوری فیملیز دیکھی ہیں جو اپنی ہٹ دھرمی کی وجہ سے صحت کے مسائل لیکر تباہ و برباد ہو چکی ہیں، ایسے خاندان دیکھے ہیں جن میں اکثر بچے آنکھوں کے کینسر کی وجہ سے اندھے ہو چکے ہیں، بہت سے مر چکے ہیں. لیکن کیا کیا جاے کہ" خاص ہے ترکیب میں.......۔
 

lurker

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I have a few reasons to strongly disagree with this theory.

1- This is also a theory like "Theory of Evolution", which has allegedly been confirmed and we are sons and daughters of chimpanzees.

Just a clarification. The Theory of Evolution does not say we are sons and daughters of chimpanzees. It states Chimpanzees and Us have a common ancestor.

2- If it was such an issue, it wouldn't be allowed in Islam (That is of course if one believes in Islam and its teachings at all)

It would appear Islam is OK with the percentage chance of disorders within Cousin marriages. It's like smoking carries a higher risk of Lung Cancer, but people still smoke. They are OK with this chance.

3- I have witnessed many villages here that are the lineage of just one grandfather and the whole village comprises of population as a result of cousin marriages since generations upon generations throughout centuries. A few examples are Ldhay vala Virkan, Bhattianvala (where in fact due to cousin marriages, all men and women are exceptionally well-built, tall and strong). Jaliana where my friend resides and there are three villages comprised of the descendants of just one grandfather intermarrying each other and none of them has any defects, in fact they are also very strong, agile and famous for their fighting skills. And all these villages by no means have little population but as a result of cousin marriages throughout centuries, comprise of thousands of residents.

My maternal side of the family which is baloch almost always marries within cousins and I haven't seen any disorders when it comes to them, in fact, almost all are well-built, strong, sharpest of features and fairer just like kurds (their ancestors). All are exceptionally intelligent as well. Agile to the maximum.

In fact, the issue arises when certain families carry certain diseases and ailments which then get transferred from both sides due to being cousins in a marital relationship and the children become more likely candidates for carrying and exhibiting the characteristics of the disease. If they marry within other families, the chances reduce as other genome interferes with the fabric of the former and creates another pattern.
And what about carrying over recessive genes? You are diabetic. Your cousin also has Diabetes running in their family. Therefore there is a high chance this gene will carry over to your offspring. Because You have it and so does your cousin. It is all about genetic fitness. You say these people are well built and yada yada yada, but I say they are genetically poor. They lack diversity in their gene pool. Genetic fitness.
 

Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
[/SIZE][/B]And what about carrying over recessive genes? You are diabetic. Your cousin also has Diabetes running in their family. Therefore there is a high chance this gene will carry over to your offspring. Because You have it and so does your cousin. It is all about genetic fitness. You say these people are well built and yada yada yada, but I say they are genetically poor. They lack diversity in their gene pool. Genetic fitness.

A perfectly healthy strong Mr Universe person could be a parent carrier of a deadly genetic disorder, which can become activated in his child if the mother(also fit and healthy) also is a silent carrier of the same disorder. In this case Being fit and healthy does not mean one is not a potential carrier of deadly genetic disorders. It only becomes active in a child if both parents are carriers of the same gene, the likely hood of which is much higher when both parents happen to be from the same family where the same genes have been circulating for generations.
 

lurker

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
A perfectly healthy strong Mr Universe person could be a parent carrier of a deadly genetic disorder, which can become activated in his child if the mother(also fit and healthy) also is a silent carrier of the same disorder. In this case Being fit and healthy does not mean one is not a potential carrier of deadly genetic disorders. It only becomes active in a child if both parents are carriers of the same gene, the likely hood of which is much higher when both parents happen to be from the same family where the same genes have been circulating for generations.

Yup. Isiliye to main kehta hoon apne Pakistani friends se, apni cousin ko dekhna chor do. :P lol. Go Diverse!
 

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