Off The Record
Councller (250+ posts)
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Off The Record - 26th January 2011 - Special Program with Gen Hameed Gul
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BuTurabi
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Off The Record - 26th Jan 2011 - Special Program with Gen Hameed Gul
ایک ٹی ۔ بی زدہ شخص نے بغیر کِسی فوج اور مُسلح لشکر کے ایک مُلک بنایا اور ہم نے اپنے وقت کی ایک جدید اور تربیت یافتہ فوج کے ہوتے آدھا مُلک دُشمن کے قدموں میں ڈال دِیا۔
آج تک ہِندوستان کے ساتھ چار جنگیں ہوئی، اڑتا لیس، پینسٹھ، اکہتر اور ننانوے ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ یہ دُشمن کا تو چھوڑیں جِس کشمیر کا دعویٰ کرتے نہیں تھکتے اُسکا بھی ایک اِنچ قبضہ (واگزار) نہیں کراسکے۔ آجتک کوئی جنگ جیتے بھی (اگر) تو وہ بھی پرائی، افغانِستان والی۔
پی ٹی وی اور پرائم منِسٹر ہاؤس کی دیواریں پھلانگ کر اِسلام آباد کے دس کِلو میٹر پر چار بار قبضہ کر کے ہمیشہ خوُد کو سُرخرو سمجھنا اگر کوئی کارنامہ ہے تو لاجواب ہے ۔
اپنے ہی مُلک مٰیں ڈیفنس ہاؤزنگ سوسائٹیز نام کی الگ سلطنتیں تعمیر کر نے والے یہ حقیقی اور کُل وقتی بادشاہ اور جُز وقتی بادشاہ گر کب ہماری گردنوں کو آزاد کریں گے؟ اگر کبھی تھوڑی دیر کو خود اُتر بھی جائیں تو زید حامد اور شیخ رشید ایسے لال ٹوپی اور لال حویلی والے باجے، بھونپو ہمارے کان اور نطریات پھاڑنے کو چھوڑ جاتے ہیں اور اِن پھٹے پُرانے نظریات کی حامل قوم سے مِلتِ اِسلامیہ کی نشاطِ ثانیہ کا کام لینے پر بھی بضِد ہیں۔
آج نواز شریف کے لئے بھی مقامِ موت ہے جب اُس کے بانی خود اُسکی تخلیق میں اپنا کِردار تسلیم کررہے ہیں اور وہ عمران خان کو اسٹیبلشمنٹ کا گھوڑا بتاتا نہیں تھکتا۔
خیال رہے کہ قائد اعظم محمد علی جِناح کو ٹی - بی تھی۔
ایک ٹی ۔ بی زدہ شخص نے بغیر کِسی فوج اور مُسلح لشکر کے ایک مُلک بنایا اور ہم نے اپنے وقت کی ایک جدید اور تربیت یافتہ فوج کے ہوتے آدھا مُلک دُشمن کے قدموں میں ڈال دِیا۔
آج تک ہِندوستان کے ساتھ چار جنگیں ہوئی، اڑتا لیس، پینسٹھ، اکہتر اور ننانوے ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ یہ دُشمن کا تو چھوڑیں جِس کشمیر کا دعویٰ کرتے نہیں تھکتے اُسکا بھی ایک اِنچ قبضہ (واگزار) نہیں کراسکے۔ آجتک کوئی جنگ جیتے بھی (اگر) تو وہ بھی پرائی، افغانِستان والی۔
پی ٹی وی اور پرائم منِسٹر ہاؤس کی دیواریں پھلانگ کر اِسلام آباد کے دس کِلو میٹر پر چار بار قبضہ کر کے ہمیشہ خوُد کو سُرخرو سمجھنا اگر کوئی کارنامہ ہے تو لاجواب ہے ۔
اپنے ہی مُلک مٰیں ڈیفنس ہاؤزنگ سوسائٹیز نام کی الگ سلطنتیں تعمیر کر نے والے یہ حقیقی اور کُل وقتی بادشاہ اور جُز وقتی بادشاہ گر کب ہماری گردنوں کو آزاد کریں گے؟ اگر کبھی تھوڑی دیر کو خود اُتر بھی جائیں تو زید حامد اور شیخ رشید ایسے لال ٹوپی اور لال حویلی والے باجے، بھونپو ہمارے کان اور نطریات پھاڑنے کو چھوڑ جاتے ہیں اور اِن پھٹے پُرانے نظریات کی حامل قوم سے مِلتِ اِسلامیہ کی نشاطِ ثانیہ کا کام لینے پر بھی بضِد ہیں۔
آج نواز شریف کے لئے بھی مقامِ موت ہے جب اُس کے بانی خود اُسکی تخلیق میں اپنا کِردار تسلیم کررہے ہیں اور وہ عمران خان کو اسٹیبلشمنٹ کا گھوڑا بتاتا نہیں تھکتا۔
خیال رہے کہ قائد اعظم محمد علی جِناح کو ٹی - بی تھی۔
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Kashif Abbasi should only do one on one interviews - he is more effective this way - he is completely ineffective and gets lost when he has more than one guest.
Its a very interesting interview - you get a glimpse into the mindset of the generals who think that they know the best for the people of Pakistan.
Hameed Gul has an agenda and he only answers questions which further his agenda. He stated that military people are ill suited and ill equipped to meddle in the political affairs....yet they try to impose their will.
He derides US policies yet he counters a question with giving example of a broken dynamics in US' afghan war.
He says the oath of the military officers which read (i am going by the memory here) "...that I will uphold the constitution of Pakistan WHICH EMBODIES THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE......" - now what a gross misinterpretation to justify their misadventure! he is taking this statement to mean that they are responsible to uphold the will of the people - IT DOESNT SAY THAT - it says that the military men/women have to uphold the constitution which is the law of the land since ITS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!!! Hameed gul is effectively saying that they are abrogating the constitution or disregard the constitution and the laws of the land because THEY THINK THEY KNOW what the will of the people is - its sad and hilarious at the same time! Look at the way his eyes lit up at the will of the people use in the oath.....
Its a very interesting interview - you get a glimpse into the mindset of the generals who think that they know the best for the people of Pakistan.
Hameed Gul has an agenda and he only answers questions which further his agenda. He stated that military people are ill suited and ill equipped to meddle in the political affairs....yet they try to impose their will.
He derides US policies yet he counters a question with giving example of a broken dynamics in US' afghan war.
He says the oath of the military officers which read (i am going by the memory here) "...that I will uphold the constitution of Pakistan WHICH EMBODIES THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE......" - now what a gross misinterpretation to justify their misadventure! he is taking this statement to mean that they are responsible to uphold the will of the people - IT DOESNT SAY THAT - it says that the military men/women have to uphold the constitution which is the law of the land since ITS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!!! Hameed gul is effectively saying that they are abrogating the constitution or disregard the constitution and the laws of the land because THEY THINK THEY KNOW what the will of the people is - its sad and hilarious at the same time! Look at the way his eyes lit up at the will of the people use in the oath.....
AmdurRahman
Citizen
Re: Off The Record - 26th Jan 2011 - Special Program with Gen Hameed Gul
hahaha seriously?? I am amazed at the level of your thinking.. If u r still breathing in a free country its thanks to the army.. And get a life.. DHA ki baat kernay walo.. U r da ones who buy these houses from the army officers for millions of rupees. These societies are made and officers pay for them from their own pockets. I am amazed why you have not spoken against "judges town", "media town", "FECHS" etc etc. If other departments can have their housing societies why cant Army. DHA isi liay chal ra hai coz it is disciplined and there is no 2-numberi in it.. And shame on your opinions about Sheikh Rasheed and Zaid Hamid. No matter who they are, they are not controlled by army. I find your reasoning quite ridiculous.. Btw i hope ye "democracy" apka pait bher rahi hai.. Gas k heater b chal rahay hain and light b aa rahi hai.. Shame on u
hahaha seriously?? I am amazed at the level of your thinking.. If u r still breathing in a free country its thanks to the army.. And get a life.. DHA ki baat kernay walo.. U r da ones who buy these houses from the army officers for millions of rupees. These societies are made and officers pay for them from their own pockets. I am amazed why you have not spoken against "judges town", "media town", "FECHS" etc etc. If other departments can have their housing societies why cant Army. DHA isi liay chal ra hai coz it is disciplined and there is no 2-numberi in it.. And shame on your opinions about Sheikh Rasheed and Zaid Hamid. No matter who they are, they are not controlled by army. I find your reasoning quite ridiculous.. Btw i hope ye "democracy" apka pait bher rahi hai.. Gas k heater b chal rahay hain and light b aa rahi hai.. Shame on u
Mullah Omar
Minister (2k+ posts)
What's actually sad is when people generalize "generals" which is what you seem to be doing here by assuming you've glimpsed into the mindset of "generals" just by listening to one general. Hamid Guls agenda is that of any sane Pakistani...but ofcourse in your eyes they're all wrong since they are generals and Zardari is the best thing to happen to this country.
Okay let me refresh memories of what I said just couple of posts ago.....this is what i wrote:
Its a very interesting interview - you get a glimpse into the mindset of the generals who think that they know the best for the people of Pakistan.
Now that I have underlined what I said it should be clear that I didn't say ALL the generals but the ones WHO THINK THAT THEY KNOW whats best for all the people of pakistan and your indictment of me generalizing is not warranted.
you are accusing me of making assumptions while you are making assumptions in the same breath :-)
one of your assumption I debunked above and the other one is your assumption is that by finding fault with military misadventures in Pakistani politics I am giving endorsing Zardari to be the best thing to happen to Pakistan.....No where I endorsed Zardari ever - I challenge you to find one post where I directly of indirectly endorsed zardari in the 1193 posts I have contributed on this forum.
Lets first practice ourselves what we preach to others ;-)
I respect your opinion about Hamid Gul that he knows whats best for millions of Pakistanis where even by his own admissions the generals, the military, politicians have all made glaring mistakes which has put us in this situation.
By the way Zardari being at the helm of affairs of this country is the direct result of the scheming of military top brass and the blessing of USA....
Anyone who thinks that the people of pakistan wanted zardari as the head of Pakistan as a result of an engineered election (where 45% of bogus votes were cast) is living in the fantasy land - the responsibility of putting zardari lies squarely with the military top brass at that time which included the current sipah-e-salaar!
Its a very interesting interview - you get a glimpse into the mindset of the generals who think that they know the best for the people of Pakistan.
Now that I have underlined what I said it should be clear that I didn't say ALL the generals but the ones WHO THINK THAT THEY KNOW whats best for all the people of pakistan and your indictment of me generalizing is not warranted.
you are accusing me of making assumptions while you are making assumptions in the same breath :-)
one of your assumption I debunked above and the other one is your assumption is that by finding fault with military misadventures in Pakistani politics I am giving endorsing Zardari to be the best thing to happen to Pakistan.....No where I endorsed Zardari ever - I challenge you to find one post where I directly of indirectly endorsed zardari in the 1193 posts I have contributed on this forum.
Lets first practice ourselves what we preach to others ;-)
I respect your opinion about Hamid Gul that he knows whats best for millions of Pakistanis where even by his own admissions the generals, the military, politicians have all made glaring mistakes which has put us in this situation.
By the way Zardari being at the helm of affairs of this country is the direct result of the scheming of military top brass and the blessing of USA....
Anyone who thinks that the people of pakistan wanted zardari as the head of Pakistan as a result of an engineered election (where 45% of bogus votes were cast) is living in the fantasy land - the responsibility of putting zardari lies squarely with the military top brass at that time which included the current sipah-e-salaar!
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Mullah Omar
Minister (2k+ posts)
You haven't glimpsed into the mindset of Zia or Musharraf by listening to Hamid Gul so yes you are generalizing.
"I respect your opinion about Hamid Gul that he knows whats best for millions of Pakistanis where even by his own admissions the generals, the military, politicians have all made glaring mistakes which has put us in this situation." No one is saying a general has never made a mistake. As for Zardari and "blessings of USA", with whose blessings did Benazir come to Pakistan? and let's say ok 45% votes were bogus...what about the rest of 55%? who did they vote for? Nawaz Sharif? were rivers of milk and honey flowing during his government? Did people not celebrate when Musharraf, one of the "generals" took over?
Assumptions on your part again - I never mentioned Zia or Musharraf - I said you get a glimpse into the mindset of the generals who think whats best for the people of pakistan. I guess I am guilty as you seem hellbent on charging me with generalization without considering the context. I guess I should not take the word of a general who has himself tried to be in the limelight as a public voice for the military over the last 20 years and should have instead individually seek out the generals who think whats best for the nation and interview them personally to form my opinion.
I guess you missed the point that the discussion with Hamid Gul was not about the person of Hamid Gul rather it was about the role of the generals and the military in Pakistani politics - so I guess we should just not consider what Hamid Gul, the director general of ISI, DG MI, I am not sure but I guess he was a former corps commander, should just be discounted as his personal view and not be taken as a institutionalized line of thinking among any of its officers and we should not consider the military as an homogenous entity and all their support for misadventures of the generals should be taken as just acts of individuals. Confounding!
You ask me with whose blessing Benazir came to Pakistan - you can blame US all you want the deal was between the military ruler and his henchmen (which included the current sipah-e-saalaar) and Benazir!
I am finding it hard to following your line of reasoning here. So if these were the only politicians who were contesting elections people should have voted who???? I am not sure if we need to import politicians from overseas.....this is what we have. The politicians that we have today are the product of our dysfunctional society and political landscape and military interventions and continuous interference from the establishment results in politicians like Sharifs, Zardari, Sh. Rashid, Ijaz ul Haq, and host of others....
Yes probably some people celebrated when Musharraf took over but I am sure even more people celebrated when Musharraf was made to quit! So I dont follow the point you are trying to make here.....
I am not sure at all but it seems to me that you dont want to hear ANY criticism of the military's involvement in internal affairs in our country because some of them think they know whats best for the general civilian population. You want to lay all the blame at the feet of the politicians - and I would contend that since Ayub schemed against Fatima Jinnah to defeat her we basically killed any effective political leadership in Pakistan. After that whatever we got was with the blessing and approval of the military establishment.
Ayub's tenure lead up to one of the most humiliating time in our history and the problem is that instead of objectively analyzing it and learning from our mistakes and vowing to never repeat them we instead want to point fingers at everyone else and their mother in law. Then there are people possessing false and misplaced sense of patriotism who deny to accept the reality on the ground because that is orthogonal to their ideological bent.
Re: Off The Record - 26th Jan 2011 - Special Program with Gen Hameed Gul
مانا کہ بحثت قوم ہم نے غلطیاں کی ہیں مگر آج جب کوئی حق گوئی کر رہا ہے تو کیا ہم اسے لال ٹوپی کے طعنے دینا شروع کردیں۔ یقیناً فوج نے غلطیاں کی ہیں مگر آج تو فوج بھی پیچھے ہے۔ حالانکہ مللک ڈوب رہا ہے مگر فوج کی ہمت نہیں پڑ رہی کہ اقتدار میں آجائے۔ تو آج کیا سیاست دان اپنی زمہ داری کو نبھا رہا ہے جن کو چھوڑ کر ہم پھر فوج کے پیچھے لگ گئے ہیں۔ عادی نشہ کرنے والے کو بھی مرنے سے بچانے کے لیے نشہ ہی بطور دوا دیا جاتا ہے مگر آج تو فوج کے صبر کی داد دینی چاہیے کہ مردا ضمیر سیاستدانوں کو مارشل لاء کا ٹیکا نہیں لگا رہی۔
اور کس بیوقوف نے کہا ہے کہ ہم کشمیر کا ایک اینچ بھی آزاد نہیں کروا سکے۔ یہ آزاد کشمیر کیا بھارت نے ہمیں پلیٹ میں رکھ کر دیا تھا۔ یہ اسی بات کا ثبوت ہے کہ مسئلہ کشمیر کا حل بھی جہاد ہی ہے جو قائداعظم نے اپنی زندگی میں ہی شروع کردیا تھا مگر یہ ہماری غلطی ہے جو اس اصولی طرز عمل سے پیچھے ہٹ گئے۔
زرا وضاحت چاہوں گا کہ وہ کون سے سنہری نظریات رکھتے ہو جو زید حامد نے بھاڑ کر رکھ دیے ہیں۔
کیا یہ نظریہ غلط ہے کہ پاکستان میں خلافت راشدہ کا نظام رائج ہونا چاہیے جس کا وعدہ ہم نے اللہ سے کیا تھا۔
کیا یہ نظریہ غلط ہے کہ پاکستان بلکہ دنیا کہ تمام مسلمانوں کی عزت اور غیرت کی حفاظت کی جائے۔
کیا یہ غلط ہے کہ پاکستان کے آئین میں جو چور دروازے ہیں ان کو بند کیا جائے تاکہ صرف ایماندار لوگ ہی سیاست کر سکیں۔
کیا یہ غلط ہے کہ کشمیر اور جہاں جہاں دنیا میں مسلمان غلامی کی زندگی اور ظلم برداشت کر رہے ہیں انہیں اس زندگی سے نجات دلائل جائے۔
کیا یہ بات غلط ہے کہ آپ pbuh کی حدیث مبارکہ کے مطابق غزوہ ہند کی تیاری کی جائے۔
کیا یہ بات غلط ہے کہ پاکستان سے معاشیات کا سودی نظام ختم کر کے اسلامی معاشی نظام رائج کیا جائے۔
کیا یہ بات غلط ہے کہ مسلم دنیا میں خلافت کے دوبارہ قیام کے لیے جدوجہد کی جائے۔
کیا یہ بات غلط ہے کہ علامہ اقبال جیسے ولی اللہ کے کلام کو پھر زندہ کیا جائے۔
اب ان میں سے بتاو کہ کون سی بات تمہارے مزاج یا نظریات کے خلاف ہے تاکہ پتہ تو چلے کہ اخر تمہارے نظریات کیا کہتے ہیں۔
مانا کہ بحثت قوم ہم نے غلطیاں کی ہیں مگر آج جب کوئی حق گوئی کر رہا ہے تو کیا ہم اسے لال ٹوپی کے طعنے دینا شروع کردیں۔ یقیناً فوج نے غلطیاں کی ہیں مگر آج تو فوج بھی پیچھے ہے۔ حالانکہ مللک ڈوب رہا ہے مگر فوج کی ہمت نہیں پڑ رہی کہ اقتدار میں آجائے۔ تو آج کیا سیاست دان اپنی زمہ داری کو نبھا رہا ہے جن کو چھوڑ کر ہم پھر فوج کے پیچھے لگ گئے ہیں۔ عادی نشہ کرنے والے کو بھی مرنے سے بچانے کے لیے نشہ ہی بطور دوا دیا جاتا ہے مگر آج تو فوج کے صبر کی داد دینی چاہیے کہ مردا ضمیر سیاستدانوں کو مارشل لاء کا ٹیکا نہیں لگا رہی۔
اور کس بیوقوف نے کہا ہے کہ ہم کشمیر کا ایک اینچ بھی آزاد نہیں کروا سکے۔ یہ آزاد کشمیر کیا بھارت نے ہمیں پلیٹ میں رکھ کر دیا تھا۔ یہ اسی بات کا ثبوت ہے کہ مسئلہ کشمیر کا حل بھی جہاد ہی ہے جو قائداعظم نے اپنی زندگی میں ہی شروع کردیا تھا مگر یہ ہماری غلطی ہے جو اس اصولی طرز عمل سے پیچھے ہٹ گئے۔
زرا وضاحت چاہوں گا کہ وہ کون سے سنہری نظریات رکھتے ہو جو زید حامد نے بھاڑ کر رکھ دیے ہیں۔
کیا یہ نظریہ غلط ہے کہ پاکستان میں خلافت راشدہ کا نظام رائج ہونا چاہیے جس کا وعدہ ہم نے اللہ سے کیا تھا۔
کیا یہ نظریہ غلط ہے کہ پاکستان بلکہ دنیا کہ تمام مسلمانوں کی عزت اور غیرت کی حفاظت کی جائے۔
کیا یہ غلط ہے کہ پاکستان کے آئین میں جو چور دروازے ہیں ان کو بند کیا جائے تاکہ صرف ایماندار لوگ ہی سیاست کر سکیں۔
کیا یہ غلط ہے کہ کشمیر اور جہاں جہاں دنیا میں مسلمان غلامی کی زندگی اور ظلم برداشت کر رہے ہیں انہیں اس زندگی سے نجات دلائل جائے۔
کیا یہ بات غلط ہے کہ آپ pbuh کی حدیث مبارکہ کے مطابق غزوہ ہند کی تیاری کی جائے۔
کیا یہ بات غلط ہے کہ پاکستان سے معاشیات کا سودی نظام ختم کر کے اسلامی معاشی نظام رائج کیا جائے۔
کیا یہ بات غلط ہے کہ مسلم دنیا میں خلافت کے دوبارہ قیام کے لیے جدوجہد کی جائے۔
کیا یہ بات غلط ہے کہ علامہ اقبال جیسے ولی اللہ کے کلام کو پھر زندہ کیا جائے۔
اب ان میں سے بتاو کہ کون سی بات تمہارے مزاج یا نظریات کے خلاف ہے تاکہ پتہ تو چلے کہ اخر تمہارے نظریات کیا کہتے ہیں۔
Mullah Omar
Minister (2k+ posts)
my comments in red
I respectfully disagree! Zia and Musharraf- throw Ayub and Yahya in there too were the sipah-e-salaar at the time. They by themselves as individuals were nothing except for maybe Ayub all others were pathetic officers and were put in place due to either their khushamad or cunningness or desire on the part of the political leaderships to have a pliant army chief (of course with the fear that some strong one would throw them over) but my point is validated that its not really the individual generals who act as Hameed Gul pointed to these things discussed thoroughly in the Corps commander meetings rather its the act of an institution! You are basically saying that every 10-15 years we just get an individual who decides one fine morning that he will take over the country sorry thats not how it works its the support of the institution of the army which enables that general to undertake that misadventure.
I guess I am guilty as you seem hellbent on charging me with generalization without considering thecontext. I guess I should not take the word of a general who has himself tried to be in the limelight as a public voice for the military over the last 20 years and should have instead individually seek out the generals who think whats best for the nation and interview them personally to form my opinion.
I'm not saying you should interview everyone personally but Hamid Gul is NOT a public voice for the military, he is not a voice for Kiyani, Musharraf or Zia or any other general either. Again this is exactly why I'm saying you're generalizing.
You have the right to make out what you want from what Hameed Gul said and I am entitled to my opinion that what he was describing was what the institutional thinking is among the top brass not sure I heard him throwing out disclaimers that what he said was the not the prevalent thinking of the top brass at the time. If you insist that its generalization then so be it J
I wish what you said was true that every general is his own man and has a voice I am sure we would not have had these many military take overs if the majority of the top brass had their way and thought differently and all the takeovers were the doing of individuals.there was no institutionalized thinking there. We havent seen any signs of dissent and never an investigation of any military generals who committed any transgressions. Everyone falls in line and thats akin to collective mindset and thiking.
My bad why should we blame the generals they were the absolute rulers with all the powers and constitutional changes to protect them for ONLY 20 of the last 33 years.and let me think who was responsible for nurturing the sharifs and implementing the NRO oh yes! You are right those were the politicians after all Zia and Musharraf were politicians J Its okay we should identify everyones part in ruining the country and their mother in laws but poor, innocent and scrupulous generals part in this ruination has to be overlooked. KUDOS!
I guess the generals are simpletons - they always fall for it due the cunning politicians. But, these simpletons once in power become so cunning overnight that they sent people to gallows, sent others to jails and exiles, and the rest they buy with position in the power corridors or a license to commit corruption or whatever it takes to keep then loyal and obedient. Such simpletons! I pity the poor generals. By the way did you miss the point that Hameed Gul was trying to make as to why the military feels it necessary to intervene in the political process? I request you to go back and listen to the parts and trying to make out what is he insinuating when the military pushes and prods things so that everyone and all the policies fall in line.
We definitely had rivers of milk and honey flowing through Karachi and Lahore during ayub, yahya, zia and musharraf this is the best you could come up with that since a third world country with a multitude of problems (one which is frequent military takeovers and destruction of institutions and accountability as a result) cant have the same standard as the most advanced nations then the solution is to invite the military which third world developing country which scores the lowest in human development indices cries for the military? And which developed country and almost developed country yearned for military dictatorship? Most countries in the EU are on the brink of collapse but I am not sure anyone is beckoning for the military to take over even though their militaries are more professional and well trained. You mentioned somewhere that this is the 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century and we should get out the mindset that the military generals know whats best for us or have any kind of solutions to our ailments if anything all they do is exacerbate the problems by putting us back 10-15 years!
Mullah Omar
Minister (2k+ posts)
My comments in red.
You are unable to see who pushes "generals" to the brink. Also you continue to assume the all generals are a single entity and whether it be 19th, 20th or 21st century they all have the same mindset which is to maintain dominance over poor civilian governments who merely want to make Pakistan a better place but are stopped by evil "generals" for some odd reason.
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