NOVA documentary on Human Evolution
- Thread starter Vitamin_C
- Start date
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Out of all creationist you chose the video Ray Comfort AKA Banana man. That man is a liar and the most disgraceful creationist probably in the history of creationism. I applaud your choice you are a legend. I thought you were just joking until I saw the title of the video.
Nobody takes Ray Comfort seriously he is a clown. Thank you for the laugh :)
Nobody takes Ray Comfort seriously he is a clown. Thank you for the laugh :)
Mind_Master
MPA (400+ posts)
Its your point of view ;)
Let me explain you a bit about Islamic Evolution and it goes like this.
Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) said:
The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) took hold of my hand and said, "Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created the earth on Saturday, the mountains on Sunday, the trees on Monday, the things entailing labour on Tuesday, light on Wednesday, He spread out animals of all kinds on Thursday, and created Adam in the afternoon on Friday, and it was the last hour of Friday between the afternoon and the night."
[Muslim].
وعنه قال: أخذ رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم بيدي فقال: "خلق الله التربة يوم السبت، وخلق فيها الجبال يوم الأحد، وخلق الشجر يوم الأثنين وخلق المكروه يوم الثلاثاء، وخلق النور يوم الأربعاء، وبث فيها الدواب يوم الخميس، وخلق آدم صلى الله عليه وسلم بعد العصر من يوم الجمعة في آخر الخلق في آخر ساعة من النهار فيما بين العصر إلى الليل" ((رواه مسلم)).
[TABLE="class: hadith_reference"]
[TR]
[TD]Sunnah.com reference[/TD]
[TD] : Book 19, Hadith 47
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Arabic/English book reference[/TD]
[TD] : Book 19, Hadith 1854[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Nobody choses to be unhappy (not that I know of), but ignorance is bliss.
A person who lives in poverty all his life will be much happier if he believes that after he dies there will be a heaven waiting for him.
Compared to a person who is more rational and poor with no hopes of a heaven after death.
If someone is smart enough to find the truth then he will also learn that Truth hurts but ignorance can reduce the hurt.
The thing is, many of us really need god because human beings are weak and need to feel a hope of supernatural intervention in their personal lives, and it works the same whether that God is real or they create him themselves.
There are exceptional cases for ex there are native people in Brazil I think they are called the Piraha, they are probably the only people in the world who do not believe in any form of theism and they are the happiest people on Earth.
A person who lives in poverty all his life will be much happier if he believes that after he dies there will be a heaven waiting for him.
Compared to a person who is more rational and poor with no hopes of a heaven after death.
If someone is smart enough to find the truth then he will also learn that Truth hurts but ignorance can reduce the hurt.
The thing is, many of us really need god because human beings are weak and need to feel a hope of supernatural intervention in their personal lives, and it works the same whether that God is real or they create him themselves.
There are exceptional cases for ex there are native people in Brazil I think they are called the Piraha, they are probably the only people in the world who do not believe in any form of theism and they are the happiest people on Earth.
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
غزالی
MPA (400+ posts)
میرے خیال میں مناسب تر سوال یہ ہے کہ وہ عقل کس کام کی جو خود کو ہی سکون یا خوشی نہ دے سکے؟؟
منطقہ لحاظ سے اس کے بعد آپ کے سوال کی باری آنی چاہیے، نیئں؟
Mind_Master
MPA (400+ posts)
Well in Islam, Adam is actually a Cow, a very intelligent Cow, I know its bit difficult to understand but thats the way it is. So Adam is a Mammal, mind it!
" Narrated Abu Huraira:
Once Allah's Messenger (ﷺ); offered the morning prayer and then faced the people and said, "While a man was driving a cow, he suddenly rode over it and beat it. The cow said, "We have not been created for this, but we have been created for sloughing." On that the people said astonishingly, "Glorified be Allah! A cow speaks!" The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "I believe this, and Abu Bakr and `Umar too, believe it, although neither of them was present there. While a person was amongst his sheep, a wolf attacked and took one of the sheep. The man chased the wolf till he saved it from the wolf, where upon the wolf said, 'You have saved it from me; but who will guard it on the day of the wild beasts when there will be no shepherd to guard them except me (because of riots and afflictions)? ' " The people said surprisingly, "Glorified be Allah! A wolf speaks!" The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "But I believe this, and Abu Bakr and `Umar too, believe this, although neither of them was present there." (See the Foot-note of page No. 10 Vol.5)"
[TABLE="class: hadith_reference"]
[TR]
[TD]Reference[/TD]
[TD] : Sahih al-Bukhari 3471[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]In-book reference[/TD]
[TD] : Book 60, Hadith 138[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]USC-MSA web (English) reference[/TD]
[TD] : Vol. 4, Book 55, Hadith 677[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] (deprecated numbering scheme)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
غزالی
MPA (400+ posts)
حالتِ سکون اور حالتِ خوشی۔ دونوں میں فرق بھی ہے اور دونوں نسبتی (ریلیٹو) کیفیات ہیں
اب سوال یہ ہے کہ وہ عقل کس کام کی جو خود کو ہی سکون یا خوشی نہ دے سکے؟؟
کیا یہ عقلی رویہ ہے کہ انسان جانتے بوجھتے ذہنی بے سکونی کی حالت میں رہے؟
Mind_Master
MPA (400+ posts)
Not exactly but before we come to this point any way, I would like you to understand one fact, the picture you posted does not show any "Ghazali" eyes at all, I understand young girls like you some time in their teen years got in this self inflicting beliefs of natural beauty myths etc, its a Psychological thing, don't worry, next time when you see mirror, focus on only one eye for a while, your illusions will be gone very soon. Have a good day.
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
It depends on what your goal is. Whether you want to know the truth. Or whether your want to remain happy and do not care about the truth.
Many people are in constant suffer because their brains require constant stimulation. There is no rest without reading a book for 2-4 hours every morning and reading a journal article in the afternoon, only sleeping 4 hours because of constant brain activity. Curiosity is a part of human instinct, but it is also credit to such people that we have comfortable lives, cars, internet, air-conditioners and freedom from slavery.
Lucky are those people who can sit on their computers in air-conditioned rooms and say Evolution is just a theory.
Many people are in constant suffer because their brains require constant stimulation. There is no rest without reading a book for 2-4 hours every morning and reading a journal article in the afternoon, only sleeping 4 hours because of constant brain activity. Curiosity is a part of human instinct, but it is also credit to such people that we have comfortable lives, cars, internet, air-conditioners and freedom from slavery.
Lucky are those people who can sit on their computers in air-conditioned rooms and say Evolution is just a theory.
غزالی
MPA (400+ posts)
یہ ذہنی حالت ہے آپکی؟ ذات پر حملہ کیے بغیر دو سطریں نہیں لکھی جاتیں آپ سے
یہ جو آپ نے سب فرمایا ہے اس کا موضوع سے کیا تعلق ہے؟
یہ پوسٹ لکھ کر آپ نے سوچا ہوگا کہ آپ کی سطح ہر اتر کر جوابا" آپکو لایعنی سے لفظ لکھے جائیں گے تو معذرت کے ساتھ آپ انتہائی خوش فہم انسان ہیں
غزالی
MPA (400+ posts)
تو آپ کے کہنے کا مطلب ہے کہ سچائی کی تلاش ایک انفرادی رویہ ہے جو سب پر یکساں منطبق نہیں ہوتا یعنی اسے جنرلائز نہیں کر سکتے؟
جن لوگوں کی ذہنی مشقت نے انسانیت کیلئے سہولیات اور آسائشیں مہیا کیں ہیں، ان میں آپ ایتھیسٹس اور اگنوسٹکس کو بھی شمار کرتے ہیں؟
نظریہ ارتقاء نے براہ راست انسان کو کونسی جسمانی آسائش مہیا کی ہے؟ ہاں ذہنی بے سکونی میں تو کچھ نہ کچھ ضرور حصہ ڈالا ہوگا
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I have difficulty in reading and understanding Urdu and google translate sucks... but I will reply to what ever I have understood.
I was not talking about religious belief but about rational thinkers. Scientist who made discoveries and inventions follow the scientific method, the same scientific method that define evolution as a fact and story of Adam and Eve as a myth.
There are many scientists who follow religions, but very few give preference to their holy scriptures over scientific knowledge. If religion and Bible was the truth why bother searching for it in the outside world if everything is written in holy books. Had Ludwig Boltzmann not spent his entire life in search of one equation, and unless God sent an angel from the heavens with a revelation that says S=K logW. We probably wouldn't have cars and air conditioners today.
I was not talking about religious belief but about rational thinkers. Scientist who made discoveries and inventions follow the scientific method, the same scientific method that define evolution as a fact and story of Adam and Eve as a myth.
There are many scientists who follow religions, but very few give preference to their holy scriptures over scientific knowledge. If religion and Bible was the truth why bother searching for it in the outside world if everything is written in holy books. Had Ludwig Boltzmann not spent his entire life in search of one equation, and unless God sent an angel from the heavens with a revelation that says S=K logW. We probably wouldn't have cars and air conditioners today.
غزالی
MPA (400+ posts)
What is your degree of confidence in the theory of evolution as a fact?
How would you define science? and rationality as well?
I know there are scores of definitions of these terms available in literature/on the web. However, my take is a little different. In any discussion, the use of terminology is not only inevitable but important as well. For a fruitful discussion, it is imperative that we agree on these definitions.
Do you any issue with the belief about the existence of God in whatever shape people in different culture may perceive it?
Sphere Manisfest
Senator (1k+ posts)
Sorry for interruption. Can I share my confusion. I am Muslim but despite efforts, I am unable to find a single Muslim expert across all over the globe who could deny overwhelming evidences. Strangely, Cosmic Physics, Evolutionary Biology, Archaeology all point in same direction that God does not exist.
Big Bang and CERN experiments show how physical laws created universe. (Muslims, Christians and Jews still enjoy 6 days theory and interpretation of 6 days change head to head). Were Einstein and Newton and are Stephan Hawkings, Brian Greene and Lawrence Krauss scientists or conspirators against Islam?
Evolutionary Biology shows how life began. Richard Dawkins's "Selfish Gene" also shows what we call satan or inside evil, is actually a gene function. Were Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace and are Richard Dawkins and David Attenborough scientists or conspirators against Islam?
Archaeology shows there is no proof of existence of Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses. Unshakable evidences provided by all renowned archaeologists specially Israel Finkelstein and Neil Silverman.
Why on earth, all major science labs and universities and scientists, with there remote and independent research reaching same conclusions which denies possible existence of God but not a single Muslim or Christian or Jew brain is there to reasonably defend their divine books?
(Btw, I dissected Dr. Zakir Naik's arguments on how to reply to athesits in light of science in Quran. To my sadness, most of his examples of "science in Quran" are fake and does not prove anything.)
I wonder should I burn my 2 post grad degrees in Ecology and hold Quran in my right hand and something else on the other hand and join ranks of low-IQ mullahs who couldn't agree on 1 single interpretation of most of ayats of Quran.
My confusion continues............
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غزالی
MPA (400+ posts)
Does it exist to the contrary?
I for one do not dispute their findings or doubt their intentions!
This gentleman Dawkins has his human genome coded/decoded with him, so why does not he go to have that selfish gene removed or have it replaced with an even benovalent one?
Have Archaeologists declared/claimed that they have exhausted all the efforts and avenues and the jury is out?
I am willing to contribute my bit here...........:)
I agree, their approach is archaic, pathetic and reactive!
:) جہاں آپ نے اتنا انتظار کیا ہے تو تھوڑا سا اور صبر کرلیں، اکٹھے یہ کام کریں گے اس مکالمے کو ختم ہو لینے دیں، اگر ضرورت ہوئی تو دو کی جگہ چار جلائیں گے
اردو یا انگریزی؟
چلیں اس دفعہ انگریزی میں کوشش کرتے ہیں
It all depends on what we think of the Quran, how we understand it and what prspecctive we bring to that understanding
_Fiazahmad
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
First your words was give me any name of scientist who reject the drwin or so called 2000 year old theories.So when Nice2MU provide you a list of scientists with evidences, now you demand any modern scientist name....Actually you are confuse as well first you try to prove the truthiness of the theory by mentioning it belong old era and when someone make you speechless now you start to demanding soemthing new.....
Sphere Manisfest
Senator (1k+ posts)
اف . اتنی توجہ . ایک ایک لائن کا الگ الگ جواب . کس زبان سے ادا کریں شکریہ اس قدر افزائی کا.
بروے زمیں است any replyگر
یہی است و یہی است و یہی است
غزالی
MPA (400+ posts)
:)
بس یہی تھا آپ کے پاس لکھنے کو؟ تعریف کی جگہ توقع تھی کہ شائد آپ کوئی متعین سوال اٹھائیں گے جس سے بات چیت آگے چلے گی
Bret Hawk
Senator (1k+ posts)
You’re not confused sir, you have already made up your mind on certain things. Science & technology in this age has become a cult which demands blind submission and belief. So like any good follower of cult you have already made up your mind on matters that are central to the edifice of religion.
Let me ask you some basic questions and keep the discussion of God aside for a moment.
You have cited the successful tests of CERN to corroborate the theory of Big Bang. Can you or any physicist want to explain that why that alleged incident took place at a certain moment in time? Why not before or after that? Any particular reason? Why a so called destructive phenomenon gave rise to the life on earth and other objects in our solar system? Why not a peaceful and mild incident took place to kick-start a process of life on earth instead of having so much mess in the shape of volcanic eruptions, flooding and earthquakes?
Now coming back to the topic of Richard Dawkins’s central themes of ‘Inclusive Fitness’ and the tendency of DNAs in organisms to replicate genes in the phase of reproduction to promote altruism, can you or any of your brilliant scientist explain the growing phenomenon of disease infections in modern age Humans despite of the tendency of Genes to promote internal fitness? The concept of altruism through DNA is proved to be limited to sexually related organisms then how come the phenomenon of division of labor of ants and honeybees exists despite of the fact of their asexual nature?
You seemed to be quite an enthusiast of Archeology then would you care to explain the degree of care and attention given to every object excavated in a particular site? Is it not true that before the invention of Radio-Carbon testing technique in late 1940’s the same archeologists used to neglect the vital pieces of charcoal in dug-up sites? What is the state of ‘Microliths’ / small stone tools in many of the excavated sites of Southwest Asia in recent past? Why they were neglected by the same so called perfect archeologists in the beginning and why suddenly they carry so much importance in 'to do list' of modern archeologists in their later projects?
And lastly if your two post graduate degrees in Ecology are not good enough to make certain points in your head firm and give you more questions than answers to your questions then it’s better to burn them and start to search for that discipline in a university which could better navigate your intellectual energy.
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