PakPatriot1
Senator (1k+ posts)
[attachment=0:b29vhr6d]untitled.GIF[/attachment:b29vhr6d]
Ref: http://www.jang-group.com/jang/may2009-daily/30-05-2009/karachi.htm
Ref: http://www.jang-group.com/jang/may2009-daily/30-05-2009/karachi.htm
Mustafa Kamal talks again
- Thread starter PakPatriot1
- Start date
aliazim2000
Citizen
without any personal offense, if they are so much against feudals and landlords I don't see any reason to nominate the biggest Sindhi Zameendar as the President of Pakistan, and support their coalition government.
PakPatriot1
Senator (1k+ posts)
Then what to do then??
Fight with them and get and another operation started on our people????
This is similar situation like Pakistan can not fight with America until it becomes powerful. So MQM has to compromise otherwise the development works will be stopped in Karachi and extra judicial killing will start in Karachi. Then no one will raise the voice against it, no one in the politicians, no one in the media and even no one from common people of Pakistan like you. They all will leave us alone.
So, let the Karachi be developed. If by building a highway, 3 hours travel time has reduced to half hour then what is the problem with any one.
Get education first, be strong first and then fight with these feudals. This is not a best time for this exercise.
aliazim2000
Citizen
I guess if you are part of a feudal system rather than abusing it you should raise these issues in parliament. Everybody knows about the development works in Karachi. We don't have any issue with that. Similarly wait for the day everyone gets educated, which I suppose wont come in my life with this system, or raise an opposing voice. The lawyers movement was one perfect opportunity since it highlighted the class differences and how people have suffered at the hands of the establishment and elite, including the army generals with no offense.
MQM should not fear about any operation. The days of the 90's are a past, and if they have the middle class behind them I am more than sure nobody will tolerate such a thing again.
MQM should not fear about any operation. The days of the 90's are a past, and if they have the middle class behind them I am more than sure nobody will tolerate such a thing again.
silencearound
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
because we all wanted the " jamhooriat " .... hello!!!!aliazim2000 said:
aliazim2000
Citizen
Secondly, bashing on one feudal party, PML-N, and then keeping quiet about PPP, is really against MQM's slogan, which is to finish feudal domination. I have seen MQM's leader Shoaib Bukhari saying on TV that MQM is the second largest party in Pakistan, as they dont count PML-N because of the feudal domination. Is PPP really a middle class party? Does someone standing from Larkana get votes because he is worthy of it or because he represents bhutto's family?
Again it narrows down to Punjab if u see it that way. The people in punjab casted their votes this year more on their constituencies than on other issues. A lot of PML-Q MPAs and MNAs who had really worked in their areas and had kept visiting their native towns and observed development got re-elected. It is a fact and even if I support PML-N i respect that. On the other hand, whether you like it or not, PML-N sweeped Lahore since Shahbaz Sharif returned. I have seen stupid accusations like the cheque to mehdi hasan bouncing and that he knew about the blast in Lahore, whereas the truth is the Federal govt did not take them into confidence. The cheque bounced during Salman TAseer's rule, and you must also consider that just to victimise Shahbaz Sharif he put officers previously removed for incompetent administration at senior posts, which resulted in the Manawan Police Station incident.
in brief, my argument is, you should not raise an issue until you can fully tackle it. MQM is a reality and if people like it it is here to stay, but so are others. Feudalism is a curse no doubt, but supporting one feudal and opposing the other so-called feudal, is double standards. NAwaz Sharif is not from the feudal class, rather he is also a Muhajir from Amratsar. I was a critic of him myself till 2007, but since his return he has shown reform and great political class.
Again it narrows down to Punjab if u see it that way. The people in punjab casted their votes this year more on their constituencies than on other issues. A lot of PML-Q MPAs and MNAs who had really worked in their areas and had kept visiting their native towns and observed development got re-elected. It is a fact and even if I support PML-N i respect that. On the other hand, whether you like it or not, PML-N sweeped Lahore since Shahbaz Sharif returned. I have seen stupid accusations like the cheque to mehdi hasan bouncing and that he knew about the blast in Lahore, whereas the truth is the Federal govt did not take them into confidence. The cheque bounced during Salman TAseer's rule, and you must also consider that just to victimise Shahbaz Sharif he put officers previously removed for incompetent administration at senior posts, which resulted in the Manawan Police Station incident.
in brief, my argument is, you should not raise an issue until you can fully tackle it. MQM is a reality and if people like it it is here to stay, but so are others. Feudalism is a curse no doubt, but supporting one feudal and opposing the other so-called feudal, is double standards. NAwaz Sharif is not from the feudal class, rather he is also a Muhajir from Amratsar. I was a critic of him myself till 2007, but since his return he has shown reform and great political class.
PakPatriot1
Senator (1k+ posts)
aliazim2000 said:
We have Misunderstandings on many issues.
1-I don't know why Shoib Bukhari said MQM is a second largest party. This is not true. I don't know what is the MQM's #. Mya be 4th right now? This is irrelevant anyways.
2-Right after the last elections, MQM announced it's full co-opearation to every party of Pakistan. But the attitude of PMLN was not supportive. They did not have courage to accept MQM's presence in the parliament or whatever.
3- Asif Zardari (you can have many differences with him, I don't mind), but for sure he showed his courage and wisdom. He realised that if he wanted to keep peace in sindh, he had to take MQM on board. He is clever enough to recognise the reality of MQM. At least one province (Sindh) in in peace right now. Just imagine if you kick out MQM from the govt., put ban on City govt. and place PPP jialeys in Karachi Administration and in retaliation of that you start operation in Urban Sindh, what would be the situation in Karachi right now? Can Pakistan afford this political unrest in Karachi? Altaf and Zardari are joint together, this is good for the country my dear.
Unfortunately, PMLN still needs that wisdom. MQM did not go to PPP, they came to nine zero. But Nawaz Sharif still reluctant to talk about MQM. You kow why? We believe he wants to keep his vote bank in upper level in Punjab.
4- Nawaz Sharif and MQM were coallition partners in 1992 when he started operation in Karachi. He back stabbed to MQM. Benazir also did the same thing, with the help of Naseer Baber she continued the ongoing operation when she came back to power in 1993, and this lasted until she was kicked out by Laghari in 1996. By then 15000 youth of Karachi was killed without any legal actions (We call it Extra judicial Killing)
5- But BB is no more now, and Zardari is there, he is a clever person. He realises that if to wants to keep govern Pakistan with peace in his mind then he has make friendship with MQM. He is letting MQM do developments in Karachi. even though Sindhi Feudals in PPP are always creating trouble for City Govt. but this is Zardari, who always intervens and let the things go smoothly.
6- So, how can you expect MQM to go with PMLN, if they themselves have baseless reservations about MQM.
7- If Shahbaz Sharif is doing development, then he is being appreciated. If I go to punjab and drive on a Highway that was built by SS, then no body will stop me to drive. I will enjoy this comfort as exactly as any Punjabi enjoys. So, this is a same case in Karachi. Karachi is for every Pakistani. These developments are not only for Karachiittes, but also for every body.
8-So, as you (PMLN) want to be recognise as a political reality then you have to give the same right to others also. Especially to those who have been winning every elections in Karachi since 1987. Their performance is improving even in every other election.
Be realistic brother. We have to save our country internally first. Come out of the false propaganda against MQM.
aliazim2000
Citizen
Jury,
I much appreciate your long reply. For the first time I have seen a constructive argument. Your reservations about PMLN are not wrong at all. PMLN has been reluctant to approach MQM and it has backfired on them more than once, first during the govt formation and then during the presidential elections. I also appreciate how you mention that development is for Pakistanis, not for an ethnic group. We need to get out of this in order to face the challenges we have as a nation.
At the same time, you must also remember that Shahbaz Sharif has paid a visit to Governer House sindh, and Mr Ibad also returned the favour in March. As a token to re-establish confidence he also donated a massive supply of wheat to his brothers in Karachi. You can yourself see if Shahbaz did not recognise the existence of MQM he would have rather not done such an action.
As for my remark, this was during the telethon transmission marking BB's death anniversary on Geo.
I much appreciate your long reply. For the first time I have seen a constructive argument. Your reservations about PMLN are not wrong at all. PMLN has been reluctant to approach MQM and it has backfired on them more than once, first during the govt formation and then during the presidential elections. I also appreciate how you mention that development is for Pakistanis, not for an ethnic group. We need to get out of this in order to face the challenges we have as a nation.
At the same time, you must also remember that Shahbaz Sharif has paid a visit to Governer House sindh, and Mr Ibad also returned the favour in March. As a token to re-establish confidence he also donated a massive supply of wheat to his brothers in Karachi. You can yourself see if Shahbaz did not recognise the existence of MQM he would have rather not done such an action.
As for my remark, this was during the telethon transmission marking BB's death anniversary on Geo.
PakPatriot1
Senator (1k+ posts)
26 MNAs
PakPatriot1
Senator (1k+ posts)
I can give you the answers of all your concers that you marked in RED.But right now please note my reply on the following:
Punjab is a unilingual province. People who migrated here were mostly from East Punjab, so they did not have any problem to mix with the local people. Lahore was a big city as per the punjabi population. Majority of the migrants moved to Lahore from E.Punjab and they felt no difference in the culture here what they left in India.If smaller amount of U.P. and C.P. people were there and they have mixed themselves with the locals then this is a justifiable point. You just said that you still have your UP and Urdu culture in your homes. So, What is the point of argument then?
Now come to Sindh. Here at partition time, Karachi was a small town of less than 2 lakh people, but it was declared as the capital of Pakistan. It was Muslim League who apealed to the muslim people of UP, CP, Bihar and Hyderabad etc. to come to the Capital Karachi and take the govt. charge as the local people of Pakistan had no experience of administration. So people came to this city and Karachi turned from 2 lakh to 15 lakh in few months. These new people in Karachi had the similar culture and as you have said culture of UP, and CP.They did not see any big population of locals in Karahi on that time, so they just start living their with their own values. There was no need to adopt or change themselves. This is quite natural.
Now come to International. I am living in USA for many years, whereever I go in any big city of America and Canada, I easily find China Town , little Italy, little India, Little Pakistan. In Vancouver, Canada, there are two suburban areas, Richmond for Chinese, and Surrey for Sikhs. They are living there for centuries. No local asks them to change their identity and culture. This is quite natural and simple to understand that everybody wants to live with the people of their own like. Why I always see in a party when we are sitting with our Punjabi Pakistani friends we are talking in Urdu, but the moment any Sikh comes to the party and joins us, my all Pakistani punjabi friends starts talking in Punjabi. They just ignore us and give all the attention to their Punjabi Sikh friend.
If you understand the psycho of Karachi then you will never be lost in these petty issues. We need to protect our country brother. We have to leave these politcs of hate and biased mentality if we want to give a better Pakistan to our generations to come.
Punjab is a unilingual province. People who migrated here were mostly from East Punjab, so they did not have any problem to mix with the local people. Lahore was a big city as per the punjabi population. Majority of the migrants moved to Lahore from E.Punjab and they felt no difference in the culture here what they left in India.If smaller amount of U.P. and C.P. people were there and they have mixed themselves with the locals then this is a justifiable point. You just said that you still have your UP and Urdu culture in your homes. So, What is the point of argument then?
Now come to Sindh. Here at partition time, Karachi was a small town of less than 2 lakh people, but it was declared as the capital of Pakistan. It was Muslim League who apealed to the muslim people of UP, CP, Bihar and Hyderabad etc. to come to the Capital Karachi and take the govt. charge as the local people of Pakistan had no experience of administration. So people came to this city and Karachi turned from 2 lakh to 15 lakh in few months. These new people in Karachi had the similar culture and as you have said culture of UP, and CP.They did not see any big population of locals in Karahi on that time, so they just start living their with their own values. There was no need to adopt or change themselves. This is quite natural.
Now come to International. I am living in USA for many years, whereever I go in any big city of America and Canada, I easily find China Town , little Italy, little India, Little Pakistan. In Vancouver, Canada, there are two suburban areas, Richmond for Chinese, and Surrey for Sikhs. They are living there for centuries. No local asks them to change their identity and culture. This is quite natural and simple to understand that everybody wants to live with the people of their own like. Why I always see in a party when we are sitting with our Punjabi Pakistani friends we are talking in Urdu, but the moment any Sikh comes to the party and joins us, my all Pakistani punjabi friends starts talking in Punjabi. They just ignore us and give all the attention to their Punjabi Sikh friend.
If you understand the psycho of Karachi then you will never be lost in these petty issues. We need to protect our country brother. We have to leave these politcs of hate and biased mentality if we want to give a better Pakistan to our generations to come.
MQM is a real thread to Family Political System
Even with 26 member MQM is on 5th in list including Religios Parties
i agree Benazeer bhutto and Nasrullah babber planed to distroy MQM then can you ignore Nawaz sharif
who elaborate Anti group who put a thought of Amir and Afaq..........
ok.........Nawaz Sharif is a Mahajir of Amritsar then why only Karachitas have stamped "mahajreens"
because problem is not a punjabies and mahajreens problem is punjabies and urdu speakers and pathans and urdu speakers
we have to desolve and discuss these lasani tafaruqat.............
We have to accept a reallity of MQM we have to give rights of Urdu speakers and we have to understand truth of PML-N
Even with 26 member MQM is on 5th in list including Religios Parties
i agree Benazeer bhutto and Nasrullah babber planed to distroy MQM then can you ignore Nawaz sharif
who elaborate Anti group who put a thought of Amir and Afaq..........
ok.........Nawaz Sharif is a Mahajir of Amritsar then why only Karachitas have stamped "mahajreens"
because problem is not a punjabies and mahajreens problem is punjabies and urdu speakers and pathans and urdu speakers
we have to desolve and discuss these lasani tafaruqat.............
We have to accept a reallity of MQM we have to give rights of Urdu speakers and we have to understand truth of PML-N
Hum log sochtay hai Pakistan ka wajood un logo ney kurwaya jo samujhtay thay keh un keh karobar Hindu bunyoo keh samnay panup nahi sukta to is leyeh
Liaqat Ali Khan jub fot hoay to un ki jorabain aur bunyan phatay hoay thay, Governer qota khatum hoja nay keh baad un keh ghur mai shukar nahi hoti thee.
Quai-e-azam oxford ka taleemiafta is leyeh yaha aya tha keh yaha ki dhoop aur gundgi mai mazeh kur sakay aur akhir mey aik kharab ambulance mey dum toor dey.
Allama Iqbal jis ko angreez surkaar hazaroo ruppee sona chandi denay ki offer kurti thee magur unho ney zindagi bhopal key 70 rupee keh wazifah per guzari.
Sir syed ahmed khan sara sara saal jail mei guzar detay thay jahan aik barik mei 70 70 musalman qaid hotay thay jahan sans lena mushkil hota tha aur woh voting list tyar kurtey thay
amlok tahseel hoshyar nagur aur bohut say dosray ilakoo mey jahan imam maheenay keh maheenay ata aur churyoo per taqbeer perh jata tha ta keh musalman janwar halal kur sakey "Qouted from Ahsan illahi by Hashrat-ulah"
hindu dabao aur culture ka asar burh raha tha aur musulmanoo keh naam tabdeel ho kur Iqbal Ashok, Anand Salman aur kishore hussain rukhna shoro ho gaey thay...........Nathnagar mai aur degar aas pass keh illaqoo mai musalmanoo keh ghar lotna aur angreez officeroo ko khosh kurnay keh liyeh musalman larkiyoo ko agwa kurna aik mamooli baat thi "Qouted from shahab nama by Qudratullah shahab"
angraizi dor mey School collagoo mey 38700 hindu aur 375 musulman talab-e-ilm registered thay
Sungarth singh ney lahore ki massagid ko ghoroo ka astabal bana diya tha
AAj dheer sawat keh illaqoo sey nikulnay wallay karachi lahore kyo atay hai camps mojood hai waha kyo nahi ruk jatay is leyeh keh un keh dost rishtedar in illaqoo mai pehlay sey abad hai aur woh un ko dawat dey rahay hai jo keh bilqul jaiz hai insani fitrat keh lihas sey...........isi tarhan hindostan keh mahajreen bhi is leyeh karachi hyderabad mei abad hoay kyo keh un keh rishtaydar pehlay sey yaha abad thay aur mahjreen ki bhari aksaryat karachi aur hyderabad mai basay aur bohut kum dosray sindh keh illaqoo mai aur ajj bhi soorat-e-haal kuch aisi hi hai baki illaqoo mai Urdu speaker bohut kum hai aur jo jaidad zameen wagaira in mai taqseem hoi woh ya to un logo ki thi jo yaha say hijrat kur keh hindustan gai thay ya phir bohut mamooli miqdaar hakoomat ki jaidad thi us mai sindhiyoo ya punjabiyoo ka kuch nahi tha jo imdad rehaishi logo ney ki woh sirf khorak kaproo aur paisoo ki thee jis trha aaj hum swat aur dosray logo ki kur rahay hai aur aik Pakistani ki haisiyat sey is ki hamey zaroorat nahi yeh ham per farz hai.
Liaqat Ali Khan jub fot hoay to un ki jorabain aur bunyan phatay hoay thay, Governer qota khatum hoja nay keh baad un keh ghur mai shukar nahi hoti thee.
Quai-e-azam oxford ka taleemiafta is leyeh yaha aya tha keh yaha ki dhoop aur gundgi mai mazeh kur sakay aur akhir mey aik kharab ambulance mey dum toor dey.
Allama Iqbal jis ko angreez surkaar hazaroo ruppee sona chandi denay ki offer kurti thee magur unho ney zindagi bhopal key 70 rupee keh wazifah per guzari.
Sir syed ahmed khan sara sara saal jail mei guzar detay thay jahan aik barik mei 70 70 musalman qaid hotay thay jahan sans lena mushkil hota tha aur woh voting list tyar kurtey thay
amlok tahseel hoshyar nagur aur bohut say dosray ilakoo mey jahan imam maheenay keh maheenay ata aur churyoo per taqbeer perh jata tha ta keh musalman janwar halal kur sakey "Qouted from Ahsan illahi by Hashrat-ulah"
hindu dabao aur culture ka asar burh raha tha aur musulmanoo keh naam tabdeel ho kur Iqbal Ashok, Anand Salman aur kishore hussain rukhna shoro ho gaey thay...........Nathnagar mai aur degar aas pass keh illaqoo mai musalmanoo keh ghar lotna aur angreez officeroo ko khosh kurnay keh liyeh musalman larkiyoo ko agwa kurna aik mamooli baat thi "Qouted from shahab nama by Qudratullah shahab"
angraizi dor mey School collagoo mey 38700 hindu aur 375 musulman talab-e-ilm registered thay
Sungarth singh ney lahore ki massagid ko ghoroo ka astabal bana diya tha
AAj dheer sawat keh illaqoo sey nikulnay wallay karachi lahore kyo atay hai camps mojood hai waha kyo nahi ruk jatay is leyeh keh un keh dost rishtedar in illaqoo mai pehlay sey abad hai aur woh un ko dawat dey rahay hai jo keh bilqul jaiz hai insani fitrat keh lihas sey...........isi tarhan hindostan keh mahajreen bhi is leyeh karachi hyderabad mei abad hoay kyo keh un keh rishtaydar pehlay sey yaha abad thay aur mahjreen ki bhari aksaryat karachi aur hyderabad mai basay aur bohut kum dosray sindh keh illaqoo mai aur ajj bhi soorat-e-haal kuch aisi hi hai baki illaqoo mai Urdu speaker bohut kum hai aur jo jaidad zameen wagaira in mai taqseem hoi woh ya to un logo ki thi jo yaha say hijrat kur keh hindustan gai thay ya phir bohut mamooli miqdaar hakoomat ki jaidad thi us mai sindhiyoo ya punjabiyoo ka kuch nahi tha jo imdad rehaishi logo ney ki woh sirf khorak kaproo aur paisoo ki thee jis trha aaj hum swat aur dosray logo ki kur rahay hai aur aik Pakistani ki haisiyat sey is ki hamey zaroorat nahi yeh ham per farz hai.
I am not sure, why MQM people do this??...They post things with one name, and start arguing with their own other id's. its really fake and funny . Anyways, Why anyone in the world should pay attention to MQM and its people by the way???..MQM is a terrorist organisation.PERIOD... no debate after this. so why should MQM be on this website at all??? I mean, seriously, what do you think what does not constitutes a terrorist mafia???...mureders? illegal weapons? threatening to terrorise innocent people? abductions? tortures? illegal strikes? calling the formation of nation as the biggest mistake? changing its goals? changing its name? killing its own leaders? creating a culture of weapons, and terror? What is not terrorism? and why should anyone paint MQM with the same brush and call it a "political party"??? what is good in this party, just give me one single example, just one!!!, you there??
jazbaedil said:
(1) Don't think that, yours technique is prevailing. Just make check IP with the help of admin.
(2) Go to PTI or PKPOLITICS, and read GUTTER PRESS like DAILY UMMAT, JASARAT, TAKBEER, etc. and enjoy one track thread with out reply from opponents and live in utopia.
