yes very good point my brother
my original comment was made at early stage of this blow up of the incident before the media starting talking about it. Maybe you are right about his motives.
But many questions arise,
1) will a revolt in the army be a benefit for us ?
2) would it be as simple as that ?
3) will it make the army weaker in the short/medium term ? (that could be bad timing, with the world after our nukes) ?
4) will the external forces have achieved the objective of destabilizing our only one disciplined intuition ?
And the case of shoe licking it might not be that straight forward.
If the current government is allowing the usa to do what it pleases, then if the army puts a stop to it, it might have to go further and take over, do we want that ?
The army has made its moves at a low level from time to time, but if it wants to make the big move, its gonna have to take over. As they say "u cant have ur cake and eat it"
e.g. ISI not be under rehman malik, nato supply's stopped for 10 days etc...
My personal view is that the army is waiting for the pull out from next door, 30,000 troops plus 100,000 contractors thats gonna be a game changer inshallah its gonna get rid of alot of the external forces inside afghanistan in the short-medium term, and make our fight more clearer.
the army breaking up or problems right now in the army is no good, it is bad timing. I'm no fan of pasha or kiyani but you have to see it from there shoes, its took 10 yrs to get this bad, we cannot fix it in 10 days (i wish and prey we could).
Another point the ISI was kept in the dark about 7000 contractors, visa were issued by the government without approval u cant blame pasha for that. Its not a matter of just shooting 7000 contractors by our people, they are being slowly chowked out, by not renewing there visa and pressure on them to leave, thats how it works I'm afraid.
Conclusion i feel things have been changing in 2011 and might take up to mid 2013 for full effect. To hopefully undo this shiit musharff and zardari clan have made for us.. Inshallah
Hi, Thanks for your response. I appreciate your time taken. Below are answers to your questions. Before I answer those, I want to just summarize them in one common thing. You have an assumption in your comments (although at some places you agree with the major problem of Army corruption) that Army leaders are working in interest of country, when they are not.
1)
Your question: will a revolt in the army be a benefit for us ?
My answer: Yes, certainly. Will be a cure forever. Our Army has got this cancer which has spread badly in 50 years. Needs an immediate cure. Cannot take years to cure. It will just worsen the cancer.
2)
Your question: would it be as simple as that ?
My answer: Ofcourse this kind of things are not that simple but it won't be as difficult as you might be thinking. Most of the right things don't happen due to people's fears. Just like it is not a problem for Pakistan to live without US aid but many many people in Pakistan are afraid and therefore GHULAAM. Fear makes you slave. Remember that - and remember that forever. Be fearless as individual and nation.
3)
Your question: will it make the army weaker in the short/medium term ? (that could be bad timing, with the world after our nukes) ?
My answer: Nopes, it won't. It will make Army very very strong in medium term. Short term could mean like a few weeks for which it might become weaker but i even doubt that. Ofcourse I don't mean anarchy in army ---- but a properly conducted revolt by a team of patriotic Brigadiers. Maj Gen and above would have to be cleaned up. Ideally revolts are possible at Colonel level but I think Brig could be possible as well.
4)
Your question: will the external forces have achieved the objective of destabilizing our only one disciplined intuition ?
My answer: Nopes. Actually a true army revolt (and only if it's true and not planned out by CIA) will work towards failure of external forces.
Your comment: If the current government is allowing the usa to do what it pleases, then if the army puts a stop to it, it might have to go further and take over, do we want that ?
My response: For God's sake brother. Stop being blindfolded...please wake up!!! Again in this comment your basic assumption is sanity of Army. It's not like that. Army has always taken over when there is no need at all. There was no need in 1958, 1977 and 1999. Infact in 1977 if Army had not taken over, Paksitan would have been way ahead of Korea right now. Same could have been the case of 1999. Anyway, the bottom line is...to answer your comment.... there is nothing like that. Army is not working in the interests of countries. Right now we are surrounded by enemies. KAYANI is more dangerous for the country than Zardari is. Kayani was picked up by US way before Zardari. They knew Kayani will lick their shoes....and he has done it very well. You can also see his 3 years extension...as well as his current performance. Is this how Armymen are supposed to be? Also, why do you think Army has to take over in order to refuse? Army can back up Supreme Court and throw away the government without installing any kind of martial law. Look, if you talk about sanity of Army, you cannot understand anything...trust me.
Your comment: The army has made its moves at a low level from time to time, but if it wants to make the big move, its gonna have to take over. As they say "u cant have ur cake and eat it"
e.g. ISI not be under rehman malik, nato supply's stopped for 10 days etc...
My answer: That was serving institutional interest and not national. What has the benefit been? ISI is a failed agency now with whatever that's happening in Pakistan. ISI just does blackmailing of politicians. ISI kidnaps people, kills them... that's it. Does ISI do any good for country? If so, please help me know. You should have seen ISI performance in last many years. I am not sure how old you are but i have seen ISI's performance to be zero and below zero since 1970's.
Your comment: My personal view is that the army is waiting for the pull out from next door, 30,000 troops plus 100,000 contractors thats gonna be a game changer inshallah its gonna get rid of alot of the external forces inside afghanistan in the short-medium term, and make our fight more clearer.
My response: I respect your opinion brother. But I don't think that is right. That is the impression Army is trying to give. You need to understand once again that Pakistan is the country where Army calls the shots. COAS is the most powerful man in Pakistan and not the President. Kayani is more to blame for the past 3 years than Zardari. Kayani is doing nothing other than destroying the country badly. Please please please open your eyes. Brother, if you want to save Pakistan you need to see beyond what's obvious and come out of your emotional attachment. I also had some kind of emotional attachment with Army when i was young....especially when we were taught about the goodness of army, about nishan e haiders, etc. Please come out of it .... please. Please realize how bad our Army has been for the country. The Bangladesh thing was solely or atleast majorly due to Army. Ayub Khan is the guy who started selling off Pakistan in 1960's. Pervez Musharaf is the guy who is the biggest traitor Pakistan has seen in its short history. It has always been Army who has destroyed Pakistan. You need to understand these things very clearly and understand what job of Army is. They need to go back to barracks and use their mind for what their mind is.
Your comment: the army breaking up or problems right now in the army is no good, it is bad timing. I'm no fan of pasha or kiyani but you have to see it from there shoes, its took 10 yrs to get this bad, we cannot fix it in 10 days (i wish and prey we could).
My response: I can't believe you could right this - or any Pakistani with some political sense could write this. Here again you are trying to assume that Kayani and Pasha are not involved in whatever happened in last 10 years.... who was head of ISI a few years ago, for good 3 years? For God's sake man. Kayani is the one who was installed in ISI to further destroy ISI. Then he was made COAS to destroy the whole army, with another blue eyed boy Pasha to lead the weakened ISI. They are the ones strongly involved in destroying Army ISI further and you are talking about them improving ????? Come on... wake up.... wake up.... JAAGO SONAY WALO SUN LO MERI KAHANI.... LOL.... I don't know how to wake up this nation, especially people who don't understand the different between respecting the army and blind passion for Army. This kind of passion is like worshipping someone...and is like shirk. One should be able to see the dark side as well.
Your comment: Another point the ISI was kept in the dark about 7000 contractors, visa were issued by the government without approval u cant blame pasha for that. Its not a matter of just shooting 7000 contractors by our people, they are being slowly chowked out, by not renewing there visa and pressure on them to leave, thats how it works I'm afraid.
My response: LOL ---- another joke. I don't think you have followed the facts properly. First of all I think if what you are writing, is true, ISI should be dissolved. ISI is quite operative in Pak Embassy in US and also at airport in Pakistan. How could they not know about those visas? Also, it has been again and again told on TV that ISI did know abotu those visas but they were without ISI's approval. Brother, this doesn't happen in Pakistan. Trust me. It can be rephrased by saying that it did not happen with the knowledge of the honest ISI people coz Pasha had given a green signal. Yes, then I can believe the statement. Secondly, dont u think ISI knew abt the presence for a long time? If not, again i'd say ISI should be abolished - we don't need it. And what about ISI's lack of knowledge of what's happening everywhere in Pakistan? What about ISI not being able to crackdown and prove that CIA has links with Al-Qaeda and Taaliban??
Bottom line is that if one is a hindu and prays to idols and keeps a reason in mind that i m like this coz my parents were, one is never gonna c light. If you keep on worshipping Army thinking that its PAK ARMY and I am supposed to think its doing right ...... u r never goin to get out of these problems. The day you stand up and start telling the Army what they are supposed to do, making them realize that they are servants of public and not masters, they will get their belts tighter.
WAKE UP MY NATION - Realize who the true enemy is....
