If Afghan Taliban are not Pakistan's enemy then why Pakistan sending NATO supplies?

Unlettered

Senator (1k+ posts)
I initially thought of keeping myself on topic but since you started lying shamelessly as one can expect from an army puppet, I'll have to address the issues accordingly.

The Phosphorous bomb you are referring to is not a chemical weapon as portrayed bythe media, its a smoke grenade known as WP grenade used for smoke screening incombat. The full info of this weapon is even available on POF websitehttp://www.pof.gov.pk/HG_smokewpp3mk1.aspx Hence this false accusation isslammed on the wall.


I am not sure what you were taught during your worship session to your 'holy cow' but the recovered bodies from lal masjid were found burned so the WPs were not used for smoke screening instead they were used as incendiary weapon.

"WP burns fiercely and can set cloth, fuel, ammunition and other combustibles on fire, and cause serious burns or death."


Incandescent particles of WP cast off by a WP weapon's initial explosion can produce extensive, deep second and third degree burns. One reason why this occurs is the tendency of the element to stick to the skin. Phosphorus burns carry a greater risk of mortality than other forms of burns due to the absorption of phosphorus into the body through the burned area, resulting in liver, heart and kidney damage, and in some cases multiple organ failure.

The United Nations Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons (CCWC) prohibits the use of such weapons 'on civilians during a war'. Alas! our army used these weapons on its very own besieged civilians and God knows how many of them were orphans!


Just for a moment imagine those kids to be your own and try to justify the operation. If you still consider it a justified act by the army then no further comments from my side but If you feel ashamed in any corner of your heart then I congratulate you for still having faith as per the saying of the Prophet:

"Whosoever of you sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart; and that is the weakest of faith."


Regarding your accusation of rapes and murder in 1971 war, your stories are only related to propaganda and when you are at it you are hiding the bloody acts of Mukti Bahini basta.rds. Maybe you support them because you are giving one sided view. The book called Blood and Tears reveals more than your propaganda.

I am neither the owner of the website nor the writer of that article on wikipedia or other independent reports and sources for that matter. So those were not 'my stories' in fact we were never even allowed to know the truth about our very own Hamood-ur-Rahman commission report.

Yeah, yeah I can understand that all of this is just propaganda because the national and international media is controlled by CIA/RAW/MOSSAD/KGB/Dajjal etc and all they want is to defame Pakistan army who happens to be the only obstacle in their way otherwise the world will be doomed.

Regarding the war on terror, it was US who attacked Afghanistan, not Pakistan; and Al-Qaeda turned their guns at Pakistan. Pakistan is fighting for its survival. Take out your anger at US..

I see... so it was the president of Israel who happens to be the COAS as well that started peeing in his pants on that phone call and insured our unconditional slavery to the US for the sake of $$$.

Now on a serious note I would like to confess that despite of all the shortcomings I still own our army as much as you or any other Pakistani do but that does not mean that we shouldn't call spade a spade. If we'll have to progress as a nation then we must learn from the past and try not to repeat our mistakes because if we keep doing what we did, we will keep getting what we've got!



 
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Fursan

Minister (2k+ posts)
Is it my false perception that Pakistan had good relations with Taliban? or that it was Pakistan that became a frontline ally of US against Taliban? It seems to me you're the one being all emotional in order to show your blind support for the military and also please point out which of my comment is a "hate comment" against the Pak military? I am perhaps one of the most pro military person here but at the same time being pro military does not mean that I blindly support everything they do. Whether backstabbing Taliban was an ideal decision or not that is not the point...but the fact remains that it was a backstab!


I am talking about post 9/11 scenario, i am not talking about your perceptions before that.
And lastly, what is done is done. The critical decision was taken by Pakistan after 9/11 attacks,
if it was very wrong then your so-called democratic govts should have corrected that but that did not happen.
 

Fursan

Minister (2k+ posts)
I initially thought of keeping myself on topic but since you started lying shamelessly as one can expect from an army puppet, I'll have to address the issues accordingly.



I am not sure what you were taught during your worship session to your 'holy cow' but the recovered bodies from lal masjid were found burned so the WPs were not used for smoke screening instead they were used as incendiary weapon.

"WP burns fiercely and can set cloth, fuel, ammunition and other combustibles on fire, and cause serious burns or death."


Incandescent particles of WP cast off by a WP weapon's initial explosion can produce extensive, deep second and third degree burns. One reason why this occurs is the tendency of the element to stick to the skin. Phosphorus burns carry a greater risk of mortality than other forms of burns due to the absorption of phosphorus into the body through the burned area, resulting in liver, heart and kidney damage, and in some cases multiple organ failure.

The United Nations Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons (CCWC) prohibits the use of such weapons 'on civilians during a war'. Alas! our army used these weapons on its very own besieged civilians and God knows how many of them were orphans!


Just for a moment imagine those kids to be your own and try to justify the operation. If you still consider it a justified act by the army then no further comments from my side but If you feel ashamed in any corner of your heart then I congratulate you for still having faith as per the saying of the Prophet:

"Whosoever of you sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart; and that is the weakest of faith."




I am neither the owner of the website nor the writer of that article on wikipedia or other independent reports and sources for that matter. So those were not 'my stories' in fact we were never even allowed to know the truth about our very own Hamood-ur-Rahman commission report.

Yeah, yeah I can understand that all of this is just propaganda because the national and international media is controlled by CIA/RAW/MOSSAD/KGB/Dajjal etc and all they want is to defame Pakistan army who happens to be the only obstacle in their way otherwise the world will be doomed.



I see... so it was the president of Israel who happens to be the COAS as well that started peeing in his pants on that phone call and insured our unconditional slavery to the US for the sake of $$$.

Now on a serious note I would like to confess that despite of all the shortcomings I still own our army as much as you or any other Pakistani do but that does not mean that we shouldn't call spade a spade. If we'll have to progress as a nation then we must learn from the past and try not to repeat our mistakes because if we keep doing what we did, we will keep getting what we've got!




Chappy,
you have been replied with proofs, especially about the WP issue and you were also given a link to read. If that weapon was banned then POF would never display it openly on their website.

You could not digest the facts and you can say that I lied shamelessly because you dont have any answer to the truth.

You wasted your time and brain by writing such a big post.
 
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Fursan

Minister (2k+ posts)
:lol: Pakistan took U-turn after 9/11. This was taken as betrayal by Taliban wether in Pakistan or inside Afghanistan. Every action has reaction. But tragedy is that Pakistan also failed to stick to a firm policy to counter terrorism. Opinion is widely devided in Pakistan. :angry_smile:


Kindly dont exaggerate, Afghan Taliban never declared war against Pakistan, it is Al-Qaeda and TTP.
Pakistan Army never launched any operation to attack Afghan Taliban. Pak Army is only fighting Al-Qaeda and TTP in Pakistani land.

The decision of Pakistan after 9/11 to give US a logistic route is the only issue BUT there are strong reasons for that which cannot be ignored, so kindly dont mislead.
Thank you.
 

sngilani

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Kindly dont exaggerate, Afghan Taliban never declared war against Pakistan, it is Al-Qaeda and TTP.
Pakistan Army never launched any operation to attack Afghan Taliban. Pak Army is only fighting Al-Qaeda and TTP in Pakistani land.

The decision of Pakistan after 9/11 to give US a logistic route is the only issue BUT there are strong reasons for that which cannot be ignored, so kindly dont mislead.
Thank you.

So you are saying that TTP and Al-Qaeda are not having any influence from Afghan Taliban ? It mean they are out of control of Afghan Talibans ?
 

Mullah Omar

Minister (2k+ posts)
I am talking about post 9/11 scenario, i am not talking about your perceptions before that.
And lastly, what is done is done. The critical decision was taken by Pakistan after 9/11 attacks,
if it was very wrong then your so-called democratic govts should have corrected that but that did not happen.
Facts don't become perceptions if you say so and history doesn't start after 9/11. What is done is done and my point remains, we backstabbed Taliban.
 

Fursan

Minister (2k+ posts)
Facts don't become perceptions if you say so and history doesn't start after 9/11. What is done is done and my point remains, we backstabbed Taliban.

Nothing changes with your thinking.. this is not called backstabbing because this is related to the whole Muslim world.

For the sake of your argument, if Pakistan had taken a strong stand to counter US threats after 9/11 and if US in anger did some strikes on Pakistan, or even if Pakistan did some military adventure against US, then do you think the whole Muslim Ummah would have backed Pakistan in its Military action against US ???? Yes or No ??

Just give a simple answer..
 

Mullah Omar

Minister (2k+ posts)
Nothing changes with your thinking.. this is not called backstabbing because this is related to the whole Muslim world.

For the sake of your argument, if Pakistan had taken a strong stand to counter US threats after 9/11 and if US in anger did some strikes on Pakistan, or even if Pakistan did some military adventure against US, then do you think the whole Muslim Ummah would have backed Pakistan in its Military action against US ???? Yes or No ??

Just give a simple answer..

that has zero relevance to what I'm saying. Let me put it this way:
1. Pakistan and Taliban had good ties.
2. US decides to invade Afghanistan.
3. Pakistan agrees to help US against Taliban hence the backstab.
 

Fursan

Minister (2k+ posts)
that has zero relevance to what I'm saying. Let me put it this way:
1. Pakistan and Taliban had good ties.
2. US decides to invade Afghanistan.
3. Pakistan agrees to help US against Taliban hence the backstab.

I can also put it this way that you want Pakistani military to confront US;
but what i asked in reply to your accusations has no 'zero relevance' at all and before making further points, just answer it.. yes or no ??
 
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Mullah Omar

Minister (2k+ posts)
I can also put it this way that you want Pakistani military to confront US;
but what i asked in reply to your accusations has no 'zero relevance' at all and before making further points, just answer it.. yes or no ??
Confront US at that time? No. But at the same time Pakistan shouldn't have turned all out hostile against Taliban, remember how Pakistan treated Afghan ambassador.
 

AdamA

Senator (1k+ posts)
Confront US at that time? No. But at the same time Pakistan shouldn't have turned all out hostile against Taliban, remember how Pakistan treated Afghan ambassador.

Read his book, it highlights how naive they were and the betrayal & trechory of Musharraf.
 

Fursan

Minister (2k+ posts)
Confront US at that time? No. But at the same time Pakistan shouldn't have turned all out hostile against Taliban, remember how Pakistan treated Afghan ambassador.


You finally admit that it was not a good idea at that time to confront US,

atleast you know the hard problem, this is the reality of the general scenario of that time without hostility, instead of getting stuck with the issue of ambassador.
 
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Unlettered

Senator (1k+ posts)
Chappy,
you have been replied with proofs, especially about the WP issue and you were also given a link to read. If that weapon was banned then POF would never display it openly on their website.

If your insanity is your 'proofs' then yup it has been witnessed on the thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus

Read the CCWC protocol III:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Certain_Conventional_Weapons

You could not digest the facts and you can say that I lied shamelessly because you dont have any answer to the truth.

I am having problem is digesting the facts? hmmmm I thought we were having a discussion on a serious topic but you are trying to make it a comedy show by pulling your irrelevant jokes here. You remind me the saying "it is better to offer no excuse than a bad one.” - George Washington

You better get the truth before the truth gets you!
 

Fursan

Minister (2k+ posts)
If your insanity is your 'proofs' then yup it has been witnessed on the thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus

Read the CCWC protocol III:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Certain_Conventional_Weapons



I am having problem is digesting the facts? hmmmm I thought we were having a discussion on a serious topic but you are trying to make it a comedy show by pulling your irrelevant jokes here. You remind me the saying "it is better to offer no excuse than a bad one.” - George Washington

You better get the truth before the truth gets you!


Mister, I gave you straight answers and link to the website,
you can argue all day long about the weapon but fact is fact. The white phosphorous used by army is a smoke grenade called SMOKE DISCHARGE/GRENADE WP

Here is the picture of the gren which even mentions the name WP on it.

By giving links, you are just doing a fuc.kin propaganda because of the name 'WP' and you are misleading only yourself and your alikes.



HG_SMOKEDISCHARGEGRENADEWP.jpg


I will say the same for you which you say for me - You better get the truth before the truth gets you !!

 

Unlettered

Senator (1k+ posts)
Mister, I gave you straight answers and link to the website,
you can argue all day long about the weapon but fact is fact. The white phosphorous used by army is a smoke grenade called SMOKE DISCHARGE/GRENADE WP

Here is the picture of the gren which even mentions the name WP on it.

By giving links, you are just doing a fuc.kin propaganda because of the name 'WP' and you are misleading only yourself and your alikes.



HG_SMOKEDISCHARGEGRENADEWP.jpg


I will say the same for you which you say for me - You better get the truth before the truth gets you !!


I gave you the links of wikipedia and still I am doing the propaganda??? shame on you!
 

Fursan

Minister (2k+ posts)
I gave you the links of wikipedia and still I am doing the propaganda??? shame on you!


The links you share are related to WP used by mostly US / Israeli army and you are falling in controversies.

What I am sharing is the real picture of grenade that is used by Pak Army, openly shown in website of POF which makes weapons/ammo for armed forces.

Is liye 'shame' ka lafz istemal kar ke ziada Bakwas karney ki zarurat nahi hai...
 
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Unlettered

Senator (1k+ posts)
The links you share are related to WP used by mostly US / Israeli army and you are falling in controversies.

What I am sharing is the real picture of grenade that is used by Pak Army, openly shown in website of POF which makes weapons/ammo for armed forces.

Is liye 'shame' ka lafz istemal kar ke ziada Bakwas karney ki zarurat nahi hai...

I really cannot respond you in the language you've used as I was not raised up like that and its not part of my upbringing but I would like to end my say with the saying,

"Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn." Benjamin Franklin
 

Fursan

Minister (2k+ posts)
I really cannot respond you in the language you've used as I was not raised up like that and its not part of my upbringing but I would like to end my say with the saying,

"Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn." Benjamin Franklin


It is totally understood that when you dont have any claims to support your accusations, you are bringing the issue of morality and upbringing BUT
I must also tell you that I am not raised in some low level family, who are you to tell me "shame on you!".

You should also look at your language from the beginning as you crossed the limits in the first place when you bluntly slammed false accusations.
 

Mullah Omar

Minister (2k+ posts)
You finally admit that it was not a good idea at that time to confront US,

atleast you know the hard problem, this is the reality of the general scenario of that time without hostility, instead of getting stuck with the issue of ambassador.
Actually I've always said that. and ambassador issue is important because it shows at what extent Pakistan had turned against Taliban. You don't even treat your worst enemies like that.
 

Fursan

Minister (2k+ posts)
Actually I've always said that. and ambassador issue is important because it shows at what extent Pakistan had turned against Taliban. You don't even treat your worst enemies like that.


Now this ambassador becomes important for you after you admit that it was not a good idea to confront US.
This is really strange as you can not say what is the scale of treating the worst enemies and then downgrade Pakistan.

When recalling history, Afghan Taliban were declared terrorists after 9/11 by UN and Pakistan (as a country) could not put itself in trouble because of just 1 man. Just tell how many muslim countries had embassies of Taliban ??
 

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