Horns of Ram inside Kabba says Maududi the founder of Jamat Islami






BUt if it is true, there is nothing anti- Islam about this issue.
Most Non- Muslims don't understand we don't Worship the Kaaba, We worship Allah, Kaaba is a symbol of the Message of Allah which Ibrahim the father of the Prophets gave to humanity.

I am really surprised by your response and I never expected that you will come up with such kind of argument to defend Maududi

Idol Worshipers also come up with the same argument , they also say they use Idols as symbols and for focus but they do not worship them but they only worship God
 

Pathfinder

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
So you have no problem to these Mullahs who are hellbent to prove that a Pagan object was preserved in Kabba on the basis of fake hadiths

No it is to do with your mission, under lying mission. it has nothing to do with Mullahism it is to do with your targeting of Islam by bringing forward a rhetoric to confuse and propagate against it. Mullahism is your cover to do it from!
 
There is huge effort being made to completely bring down the Faith of Islam. Universities in the West have worked on it for a long time, all being done to make you a Muslim by name and nothing more. We are seeing this on siasat.pk select few members writing posts who target people with weak knowledge by presenting interpretation that maligns scriptures. Sad fact of the matter is that vast majority will follow this because they are weak in their knowledge of Islam. Thus the Hadiths for the end of times that there will very few believers is happening right in-front of us.

What is the definition of a good Muslim and a real Muslim in your Eyes ? Will you guide us?

Or you think the real and good Muslim is one , who all the time kill and murder people all around in this world?

or the one who all the time spread hate?
 

Pathfinder

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
What is the definition of a good Muslim and a real Muslim in your Eyes ? Will you guide us?

Or you think the real and good Muslim is one , who all the time kill and murder people all around in this world?

or the one who all the time spread hate?

What is your motive? You have a motive lets be honest and not pussy foot about? Me being a good Muslim is between me and My Creator to judge that same logic goes for other Muslims it is not my place to judge them all! Are you are underlying and painting more than 1billion Muslims Globally with the same brush;

"who all the time kill and murder people all around in this world? or the one who all the time spread hate?"


Are Muslims 'only' killing around the world?

Are you a Muslim?
 
What is your motive? You have a motive lets be honest and not pussy foot about? Me being a good Muslim is between me and My Creator to judge that same logic goes for other Muslims it is not my place to judge them all! Are you are underlying and painting more than 1billion Muslims Globally with the same brush;

"who all the time kill and murder people all around in this world? or the one who all the time spread hate?"


Are Muslims 'only' killing around the world?

Are you a Muslim?

What about killing in the name of blasphemy ?

What about ISIS, Talibans , Lashkir Jhangvi ?

What about Houthies and why Saudi Arabia is bombing Yemen?

What about Boko Haram , no one bombed Nigeria ?


 

Pathfinder

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
What about killing in the name of blasphemy ?

What about ISIS, Talibans , Lashkir Jhangvi ?

What about Houthies and why Saudi Arabia is bombing Yemen?

What about Boko Haram , no one bombed Nigeria ?



So your motive is to stop ISIS, Taliban, Lashkir Jhangvi, Houthis Boko haram? By means of bashing Islam? Are these the only representatives of Islam that you have?
 

NasNY

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I am really surprised by your response and I never expected that you will come up with such kind of argument to defend Maududi

Idol Worshipers also come up with the same argument , they also say they use Idols as symbols and for focus but they do not worship them but they only worship God

If your confusion was genuine, it can be clarified but as usual it is manufactured by mind with a single brain cell, you need at least 2 to tango.

Every Muslim child has a clear understanding of Islam and your little tidbits can be defeated by a 5 year old Muslim child.
 

NasNY

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
So your motive is to stop ISIS, Taliban, Lashkir Jhangvi, Houthis Boko haram? By means of bashing Islam? Are these the only representatives of Islam that you have?

He is not a Muslim, he calls himself an atheist but i think he is an evangelical christian, or a Catholic.

His arguments are classic Catholic church propaganda that has been around for some time.
 

Pathfinder

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
He is not a Muslim, he calls himself an atheist but i think he is an evangelical christian, or a Catholic.

His arguments are classic Catholic church propaganda that has been around for some time.

I once met a American Pastor in London and I swear the conversation between me and the Pastor was not much different to this one!
 

biomat

Minister (2k+ posts)
[h=2]Verse 37.99[/h] The Prophet Abraham said these words on his departure after he had been delivered safe from the fire and had decided to leave the country.
It mean: "I am leaving my home and country for the sake of Allah, for my people have turned hostile to me only because of my turning to Him exclusively; otherwise there was no worldly dispute between them and me because of which I might have had to Leave my country. Moreover. I have no place of refuge in the world, to which I may turn. I am leaving my home with full faith and trust only in Allah: I shall go wherever He leads me. "
This prayer by itself shows that the Prophet Abraham at that time was childless. From the details given at other places in the Qur'an, it becomes clear that he had left his country with only one wife and one nephew (the Prophet Lot). Therefore, he naturally desired that Allah should bless him with a righteous child, who could be a source of comfort and consolation for him in a foreign land.
From this one should not understand that this good news was given him immediately following his prayer. In the Qur'an itself, at another place, this saying of the Prophet Abraham has been related: "All praise be to Allah Who has given me sons like Ishmael and Isaac in my old age." (Ibrahim: 39). This proves that there was an interval of many years between the prayer and this good news. The Bible says that at the birth of the Prophet Ishmael, the Prophet Abraham was 86 years old (Gen. 16: 16) and at the birth of the Prophet Isaac a hundred years. (Gen. 21: 5).
One should note that the Prophet Abraham had dreamed that he was sacrificing his son and not that he had sacrificed him. Although at that time he understood the dream to mean that he should sacrifice his son and on that very basis, he became ready to sacrifice him, with a cool mind, yet the fine point that Allah had in view in making him see the dream has been explained by Himself in verse 105 below.
The object of asking this of the son was not that he would carry out Allah's Command only if he agreed, otherwise not, but the Prophet Abraham, in fact, wanted to find out how righteous, in actual reality, was his child for whom he had prayed to Allah. If the son himself was found to be ready to lay down his life for the sake of Allah's approval and pleasure, it would mean that the prayer had been fully granted, and the son was not his offspring in the natural way only but was morally and spiritually also a true son.
The words clearly tell that the son had not taken the dream of his Prophet father to be a mere dream but a Command from Allah. Had it not been a Command actually, it was necessary that Allah should have explicitly or implicitly stated that the son of Abraham had mistaken it for a command. But the whole context is without any such allusion. On this very basis, there is the Islamic belief that the dream of the Prophets is never a mere dream it is also a kind of Revelation. Obviously, if a thing, which could become such a fundamental principle in the Divine Shari'ah, had not been based on reality, but had been a mere misunderstanding, it was not possible that Allah should not have refuted it. It is impossible for the one who believes the Qur'an to be Allah's Word, to accept That such an error and omission could emanate from Allah also.
That is, "The Prophet Abraham did not make his son lit flat on his back but made him lie prostrate lest while slaughtering him the sight of his face should arouse compassion and lout and make him shaky. Therefore, he wanted to use the knife from under the throat".
One section of the grammarians says that here "and" has been use to mean "then"; thus, the sentence would be: "When the two had submitted themselves (to Allah) and Abraham had flung his son down on his brow, then We called out... " But another section of them says that here the answer to the word "when" has been omitted and left for the listener to fill; for it was better w leave such an indescribable thing to the imagination instead of expressing it in words. When Allah might have seen that the old father who had got a son after long earnest prayers, has become ready to sacrifice him only for His pleasure and approval; and the son also had became ready to get slaughtered, His infinite Mercy might have been aroused at the sight, and the Master might have felt great love for the father and son. All this can only be imagined. No words would ever describe the scene adequately.
That is, "We did not make you see in the dream that you had actually slaughtered your son and he had died, but that you were slaughtering him. That Vision you have fulfilled. Now, it is not Our will to take the life of your child: the actual object of the vision has been fulfilled by your submission and preparation to sacrifice him for Our sake."
That is, "We do not subject the people who adopt the righteous way to trials in order to involve them in trouble and distress and affliction just for the sake of it, but these trials are meant to bring out their excellencies and to exalt them to high ranks, and then We deliver them also safe and sound from the dilemma in which We place them for the sake of the trial. Thus, your willingness and preparation to sacrifice yow son is enough to entitle you to be exalted to the rank that could be attained only by the one who would actually have slaughtered his son for Our approval and pleasure. Thus, We have saved the life of yow child as well as exalted you to this high rank. "
That is, "The object was not to get yow son slaughtered through you but to test you to see that you did not hold anything of the world dearer than Us.
"A great sacrifice" : A ram, as mentioned in the Bible and the Islamic traditions, that Allah's angel presented at the time before the Prophet Abraham, so that he should sacrifice it instead of his son. This has been called "a great sacrifice" because it was to serve as a ransom from a faithful servant like Abraham for a patient and obedient son like Ishmael, and Allah made it a means of fulfilling the intention of an unprecedented sacrifice. Another reason for calling it "a great" sacrifice is that Allah made it a tradition till the Day of Resurrection that all the believers should offer animal sacrifice on the same date in the entire world so as to keep fresh the memory of the great and unique event signifying faithfulness and devotion."
Here, the question arises: Who was the son whom the Prophet Abraham had got ready to offer as a sacrifice, and who had willingly offered himself to be slaughtered as a sacrifice? The first answer to this question is given by the Bible; and it is this:
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham:... Take now thy son thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of." (Gen. 22: 1-2).
In this statement, on the one hand, it is being said that Allah had asked for the offering of the Prophet Isaac, and on the other, that he was Abraham's only son, whereas the Bible itself, at other places, conclusively states that the Prophet Isaac was. not the only son of the Prophet Abraham.Consider the following statements of the Bible:
"Now Sarai, Abram's wife bore him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said unto Abraham, Behold now, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abraham hearkened to the voice of Sarai. And Sarai Abraham's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abraham had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her husband Abram to be his wife. And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived." (Gen.16: 1-4)
"And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael." (16: 11)
"And Abraham was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bore Ishmael to Abraham." (16: 16).
"And God said unto Abraham, `As for Sarai thy wife,..... I will bless her and give thee a son also of her:..... and thou shalt call his name Isaac...... which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year And Abraham took Ishmael his son and......every male among the men of Abraham's house; and..... circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him. And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. " (Gen. 17: 15-25).
"And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him. " (Gen. 21: 5).
This brings out the contradictions of the Bible. It is evident that for 14 years the Prophet Ishmael was the only son of the Prophet Abraham. Now if the offering had been asked of the only son, it was not of Isaac but of Ishmael, for he alone was the only son; and if the offering of Isaac had been asked, it would be wrong to say that the offering of the only son had been asked.
Now let us consider the Islamic traditions, and they contain great differences. According to traditions cited by the commentators from the Companions and their immediate followers, one group of them is of the opinion that the son was the Prophet Isaac, and this group contains the following names:
Hadrat `Umar, `Hadrat `Ali, `Hadrat `Abdullah bin Mas'ud, Hadrat `Abbas bin `Abdul Muttalib, Hadrat `Abdullah bin `Abbas, Hadrat Abu Hurairah, Qatadah, `Ikrimah, Hasan Basri, Said bin Jubair, Mujahid, Sha`bi, Masruq, Makhul, Zuhri, `Ata, Muqatil, Suddi, Ka'b Ahbar, Zaid bin Aslam, and others.
The other group says that it was the Prophet Ishmael, and this group contains the names of the following authorities:
Hadrat Abu Bakr, Hadrat 'Ali, Hadrat `Abdullah bin `Umar, Hadrat 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas, Hadrat Abu Hurairah, Hadrat Mu'awiyah, `Ikrimah, Mujahid, Yusuf bin Mahran, Hasan Basri, Muhammad bin Ka`b al-Qurzi, Sha`bi, Said bin al-Musayyab, Dahhak, Muhammad bin 'Ali bin Husain (Muhammad alBaqir), Rabi` bin Anas, Ahmed bin Hanbal, and others.
When compared, the two lists will be seen to contain several common names: this is due to the reason that from the same person two different views have been reported. For example, from Hadrat 'Abdullah bin `Abbas, `Ikrimiah has related the saying that the son was the Prophet Isaac, but from him again `Ata' bin Abi Rabah relates: "The Jews claim that it was Isaac, but the Jews tell a tie. " Likewise. from Hadrat Hasan Basri, one tradition is to the effect that the Prophet Isaac was the son meant to be made the offering, but `Umar bin `Ubaid says that Hasan Basri had no doubt regarding that the son whom the Prophet Abraham had been commanded to offer as a sacrifice was the Prophet Ishmael (peace be upon him).
This diversity of tradition has resulted in the diversity of opinion among the scholars of Islam. Some of them e.g. Ibn Jarir and Qadi `Iyad, have expressed the firm opinion that the son was the Prophet Isaac. Others, like Ibn Kathir have given the verdict that it were the Prophet Ishmael. There ware others who are un-certain and wavering, e.g. Jalaluddin Suyuti. However, a deep inquiry into the question establishes the fact that the son intended to be offered as a sacrifice was the Prophet Ishmael. The following are the arguments:
(1) As stated by the Qur'an above, at the time of his emigration from the country, the Prophet Abraham had prayed for a righteous son and in answer to it, Allah had given him the good news of a clement boy. The context shows that this prayer was made at a time when he was childless, and the boy whose good news was given was his first-born child. Then, this also becomes obvious froth the Qur'anic story that when the child grew up to boyhood, he was inspired to offer him as an offering. Now, it is established beyond any doubt that the Prophet Abraham's first-born son was the Prophet Ishmael and not the Prophet Isaac. The Qur'an itself has stated the order between the two sons, thus: "All praise be to Allah Who has given me sons like Ishmael and Isaac in my old age." (Ibrahim: 39).
(2) The words used in the Qur'an with regard to the Prophet Isaac while giving the good news of his birth are: "And they gave him the good news of the birth of a son, possessing knowledge, ('alim). " (AdhDhariyat: 28 "Do not be afraid: we give you the good news of a son, possessing knowledge." (AI-Hijr: 53). But the son, the good news of whose birth has been given here; has been called a clement (halim) son. This shows that the two sons had distinctive qualities, and the offering had been asked of the clement son and not of the son possessing knowledge.
(3) Along with giving the good news of the birth of the Prophet Isaac in the Qur'an, the good news of the birth of a grandson like Jacob was also given: 'Then We gave her the good news of Isaac, and after Isaac of Jacob." (Hud: 71). Now obviously, if about the son along with the news of whose birth the news of a worthy son to be born to him had also been given, the Prophet Abraham was shown a vision that he was sacrificing him, he would never have understood that he was being inspired to offer that very son as an offering. 'Allama Ibn Jarir contends that the Prophet Abraham might have been shown this vision at a time when Jacob had already been born to the Prophet Isaac. But this is, in. fact, a very weak reply to the argument. The Qur'an says: 'When the boy became able to work with his father," then he was shown the vision Anyone who reads these words with an unbiased mind will have the image of an 8 to 10 years lad beforc him. No one can imagine that these words had been used about a young man having children.
(4) Allah, at the end of the story, says: "We gave him the good news of Isaac, a Prophet among the righteous." This clearly shows that it was not the same son, whom he had been inspired to offer as a sacrifice; but before this the good news of some other son had been given; then when he grew up and became able to work with his father, it was commanded to sacrifice him. Afterwards, when the Prophet Abraham came through this test successfully, he was given the good news of the birth of another son, the Prophet Isaac (may peace be upon him). This order of the events conclusively proves that the son whom the Prophet Abraham had been commanded to sacrifice was not Isaac but another son who had been born several years beforc him, 'Allama Ibn Jarir rejects this express argument, saying that in the beginning only the good news of the birth of the Prophet Isaac had been given. Then, when he became ready to be scarificed for the sake of Allah's approval and pleasure, it was rewarded in the form of the good news of his Prophethood. But this reply to the argument is weaker still. If it had really been so, Allah would not have said: We gave him the good news of Isaac, a Prophet among the righteous," but "We gave him the good news that this same son of yours would be a Prophet among the righteous."
(5) Authentic traditions confirm that the horns of the ram which was slaughtered as a ransom for the Prophet Ishmael remained preserved in the Holy Ka'bah till the time of Hadrat 'Abdullah bin Zubair. Afterwards when Hajjaj bin Yusuf besieged Ibn Zubair in the Ka'bah and demolished the Kab'bah, the horns also were destroyed. Both Ibn 'Abbas and 'Amir Sha'bi; testify that they had seen the horns in the Ka'bah. (Ibn Kathir). This is a proof of the fact that the event of the sacrifice had taken place in Makkah and not in Syria, and concerned the Prophet Ishmael. That is why a relic of it had been preserved in the Holy Ka'bah built by the Prophets Abraham and Ishmael.
(6) The Arab traditions confirmed that this event of the sacrifice had taken place in Mina (near Makkah), and it was not only a tradition but practically also it had been a part of the Hajj rites for centuries. Even until the time of the Holy Prophet people used to offer the animal sacrifice in Mina at the place where the Prophet Abraham had offered the sacrifice. Afterwards when the Holy Prophet was raised as a Prophet, he also maintained and continued the same tradition; so that even till today sacrifices are offered in Mina on the 10th of Dhil-Hajj. This continual practice of 4,500 years or so is an undeniable proof of the fact that the heirs to the tradition of sacrifice made by the Prophet Abraham have been the descendants of the Prophet Ishmael and not of the Prophet Isaac. There has never been any such tradition among the descendants of the Prophet Isaac according to which the whole community might have offered the sacrifice at one and the same time and regarded it as a continuation of the sacrifice made by the Prophet Abraham.
In the face of such arguments it appears strange how the idea of the Prophet Isaac's being the son offered as the sacrifice spread among the Muslim community itself. If the Jews might have tried to attribute the honor to their ancestor, the Prophet Isaac, by depriving the Prophet Ishmael of it, it would be understandable.
But the question is: How did a large number of the Muslims come to accept this wrong notion? A very satisfactory answer to this question has been given by 'Allama Ibn Kathir in his commentary. He says: "The reality is known to Allah alone but it appears that all the sayings (in which the Prophet Isaac has been mentioned as the son offered as a sacrifice) are related from Ka`b Ahbar. This man, when he became a Muslim in the time of Hadrat 'Umar, used to relate before him the contents of the ancient Jewish and Christian scriptures, and Hadrat 'Umar would hear them. On this basis, the other people also began to listen to him, and started relating every mixture of the truth and falsehood that they heard from him, whereas this Ummah did not stand in need of anything whatever from the store of his knowledge and information.'
This thing is further explained by a tradition from Muhammad bin Ka'b al-Kurzi He says that once during his presence the question whether the son offered as a sacrifice was the Prophet Isaac or the Prophet Ishmael arose before Hadrat 'Umar bin 'Abdul `Aziz. Among them at that time was a person who had been a Jewish scholar but had become a sincere Muslim afterwards. He said, "O Commander of the Faithful! By God it was Ishmael, and the Jews know it, but claim on account of their jealousy of the Arabs that it was the Prophet Isaac." (Ibn Jarir). When the two things are put side by side, it becomes evident that actually it was the Jewish propaganda that spread among the Muslims who have always been unbiased in scholastic literary matters, a large number of them accepted the statements of the Jews as a historic truth, which they presented as historical traditions with reference to the ancient scriptures, and did not realize that these were based on prejudice instead of knowledge.
This sentence throws light on the real object for which this event of the Prophet Abraham's sacrifice has been related here. From the race of his two sons arose two great nations in the world. First, the children of Israel, from whose house two major religions (Judaism and Christianity) emerged, which dominated and won over large human populations. Second, the children of Ishmael, who were the religious leaders and guides of All the Arabs at the time of the revelation of the Qur'an, and the tribe of Quraish of Makkah at that time held the most important position among them. Whatever eminence these two branches of the offspring of the Prophet Abraham attained became possible only on account of their connection and relation with the Prophet Abraham and his two illustrious sons; otherwise, God alone knows how many such families have arisen in the world and been assigned to oblivion. Now, Allah relates the most glorious event of the history of this family and makes both its branches realize that whatever honor and eminence they have attained in the world, has been due actually to the great traditions of God-worship and sincerity and obedience, which were set by their ancestors, the Prophets Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac (may peace be upon them all). He tells them: `The great blessings which We bestowed on them, were not bestowed arbitrarily and haphazardly: We did not just pick out a person and his two sons blindly and blessed them, but they gave definite proofs of their loyalty and faithfulness to their real Master and then became deserving of His favors. Now, you cannot become entitled to those favors merely on the basis of your pride of descent, for We shall see who among you is righteous and who is wicked and then deal with him accordingly."
 
If your confusion was genuine, it can be clarified but as usual it is manufactured by mind with a single brain cell, you need at least 2 to tango.

Every Muslim child has a clear understanding of Islam and your little tidbits can be defeated by a 5 year old Muslim child.

He is not a Muslim, he calls himself an atheist but i think he is an evangelical christian, or a Catholic.

His arguments are classic Catholic church propaganda that has been around for some time.

So after getting the titles of a Hindu , Jew, Sikh now I am a Christian (clap)

Why you guys cannot accept that there can also be a Rational Muslim too

Anway, What crime I did? I just posted what Molana Mududi wrote

If you think Molana Mududi is right then we have to accept that If Hajaj bin Yousf had not demolished Kaba ,there would still be Horns of Ram inside Kaba today?

I personally think Horns of Ram is a more detestable thing than a idol made of stone

 

Pathfinder

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
So for you Maududi is Islam and Islam is Maududi ?

and If I bash Maududi I am automatically bashing Islam ?

You make threads upon threads of some utter tripe, Which is like a dog chasing its tail neither has a beginning or end. all they do is inflame and nothing more. if today you bash maududi tomorrow you will bring something else.
 

Night_Hawk

Siasat.pk - Blogger
6a9602f540c197fdb5cf20f4c605a030.jpg
 

Night_Hawk

Siasat.pk - Blogger
(5) Authentic traditions confirm that the horns of the ram which was slaughtered as a ransom for the Prophet Ishmael remained preserved in the Holy Ka'bah till the time of Hadrat 'Abdullah bin Zubair.

Afterwards when Hajjaj bin Yusuf besieged Ibn Zubair in the Ka'bah and demolished the Kab'bah, the horns also were destroyed.

Both Ibn 'Abbas and 'Amir Sha'bi; testify that they had seen the horns in the Ka'bah. (Ibn Kathir).

This is a proof of the fact that the event of the sacrifice had taken place in Makkah and not in Syria, and concerned the Prophet Ishmael.

That is why a relic of it had been preserved in the Holy Ka'bah built by the Prophets Abraham and Ishmael.

The Thread read:
[h=2]Horns of Ram inside Kabba says Maududi the founder of Jamat Islami. (he wrote the above explanation many years ago). He is not alive, he wrote not says.[/h]Please do not distort the facts.
 

fetalice

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
I think it's not about bashing modudi or ibn e kaseer, it's more about thinking before you accept the tafsir of the holy book.

The thread starter has given an example of in his opinion how wrong the tafsir is. Because as per his common sense this is a lie and part of a very famous tafseer book.

He hasn't done a personal attack on modudi by saying different stuff about modudi personally.

He has pointed out personal attacks on Islam by different people and be aware of it.

By the way, story of ram horns being present till hajjaj bin Yousif time is absolutely rubbish.
 

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