Highest Peak in Kargil Still in Control of Pakistan -
Re: Kargil, near Tiger Hil- point 5353
Something to cheer after losing the kargil war and losing 11 years of democracy(remember sharif was couped ) ..Kargil was a debacle .it demoralized the nation and made us look trouble creator in eyes of world...
Even china didnt support pakistan stance...
At the time once pakistan and india are talking about leaving siachin(80 km glacier),i doubt why this small 200 meter cliff would give us ....(it would cost us million of rupees to maintain it.bleeding economy more.... )...
May be it is helpful for those who again think of new kargil :) and take us 20 years back ..............
Something to cheer after losing the kargil war and losing 11 years of democracy(remember sharif was couped ) ..Kargil was a debacle .it demoralized the nation and made us look trouble creator in eyes of world...
Even china didnt support pakistan stance...
At the time once pakistan and india are talking about leaving siachin(80 km glacier),i doubt why this small 200 meter cliff would give us ....(it would cost us million of rupees to maintain it.bleeding economy more.... )...
May be it is helpful for those who again think of new kargil :) and take us 20 years back ..............
mt_dilber
MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Kargil, near Tiger Hil- point 5353
U may be right but problem is, that Pakistan and India cannot be friends, you have seen in past, u will see in future too.It is not going to change because there is a long history and ideolog behing it. We all know it wont help but it is something in the genetic of both nations and it will require many decades to change the approach. didnt u see reaction of both sides during Pak/India cricket matches.
U may be right but problem is, that Pakistan and India cannot be friends, you have seen in past, u will see in future too.It is not going to change because there is a long history and ideolog behing it. We all know it wont help but it is something in the genetic of both nations and it will require many decades to change the approach. didnt u see reaction of both sides during Pak/India cricket matches.
Re: Kargil, near Tiger Hil- point 5353
All european contries were fighting war till 1945..............how many years did it take to form european union?
i feel that india is not a country which will dare to attack pakistan..I am selfish and i want majority of funds to reach to develop the national social sectors....
Nuclear bombs are enough to provide deterrence............we dont need to spend money on hell lot of weapons
All european contries were fighting war till 1945..............how many years did it take to form european union?
i feel that india is not a country which will dare to attack pakistan..I am selfish and i want majority of funds to reach to develop the national social sectors....
Nuclear bombs are enough to provide deterrence............we dont need to spend money on hell lot of weapons
mt_dilber
MPA (400+ posts)
mt_dilber
Your talk about Kargil is wrong, your talk about Baluchistan is wrong.
Let me enlighten you, Kashmir is a disputed territory and Pakistan has the right to free it from atrocities being committed by India Army on daily bases. Here is a report by Amnesty International re Kashmir.
http://www.kashmirglobal.com/?p=3047
About Baluchistan here is the truth.
he Bugti clan has been a problem. They're very powerful, and want more. It's their right, to lord it over other tribes, don't you see. They're Bugtis, no more need be said. Consider this the third wave of Boluch nationalism, if you will; it's no more ideologically motivated than any other, and conceivably has a bit of Iranian backing--there's a large contingent of Boluchis in Iran, and they seem to be more interested in the strife over in Pakistan than getting a fair shake in Iran, currently. So it weakens Pakistan, puts Iran in a better position, and diverts local nationalist aspirations.
In some things, I think they have a point. Currently if you grow up speaking Urdu, you just learn English, and you're set for education and business; or Arabic, and off to extremist camp you go. If you're a Baluchi speaker, you have to learn Urdu and English, or Urdu and Arabic, and it slows you down a bit.
One way for the Bugtis to boost their power is by getting oil and gas revenues. For this purpose, they occupied a refinery, and routinely blow up rail, gas, oil, and power lines. Hostages, drug running, whatever. The current deals are probably unfair, having been negotiated long ago; but the renegotiated deal the Bugtis want is for the Bugtis to get the money, and then they can parcel it out to their favorites. On edit: Another has to do with water, although I don't recall if the Bugtis are involved in this one or not. There have been some recent water scandals, claims of having water diverted upstream just to find that it wasn't diverted upstream, but siphoned off by locals: they get a false claim against the government, generate strife that serves their goals, *and* get the water for their clan's use (or to sell for their clan).
The other way is by simply insurrection. The occasional riot, raid on government convoys and installations, lobbing mortars into a refinery or two, attacking army patrols.
Nixing the old man Bugti is probably going to rile things up, but sends a nice message, even if it was an accident (I'm not convinced it was, but for the sake of honor and dignity truth is can be dispensed with). Armed conflict has been avoided: conflict with the feds has almost always been started by the tribal side. Taking it them is necessary, at some point.
But of course, it's an insult, so to regain their dignity the Bugtis (and others, in sympathy) have to show exactly how honorable they are by destroying some stuff, injuring people, and possibly even committing a murder or two.
Your talk about Kargil is wrong, your talk about Baluchistan is wrong.
Let me enlighten you, Kashmir is a disputed territory and Pakistan has the right to free it from atrocities being committed by India Army on daily bases. Here is a report by Amnesty International re Kashmir.
http://www.kashmirglobal.com/?p=3047
About Baluchistan here is the truth.
he Bugti clan has been a problem. They're very powerful, and want more. It's their right, to lord it over other tribes, don't you see. They're Bugtis, no more need be said. Consider this the third wave of Boluch nationalism, if you will; it's no more ideologically motivated than any other, and conceivably has a bit of Iranian backing--there's a large contingent of Boluchis in Iran, and they seem to be more interested in the strife over in Pakistan than getting a fair shake in Iran, currently. So it weakens Pakistan, puts Iran in a better position, and diverts local nationalist aspirations.
In some things, I think they have a point. Currently if you grow up speaking Urdu, you just learn English, and you're set for education and business; or Arabic, and off to extremist camp you go. If you're a Baluchi speaker, you have to learn Urdu and English, or Urdu and Arabic, and it slows you down a bit.
One way for the Bugtis to boost their power is by getting oil and gas revenues. For this purpose, they occupied a refinery, and routinely blow up rail, gas, oil, and power lines. Hostages, drug running, whatever. The current deals are probably unfair, having been negotiated long ago; but the renegotiated deal the Bugtis want is for the Bugtis to get the money, and then they can parcel it out to their favorites. On edit: Another has to do with water, although I don't recall if the Bugtis are involved in this one or not. There have been some recent water scandals, claims of having water diverted upstream just to find that it wasn't diverted upstream, but siphoned off by locals: they get a false claim against the government, generate strife that serves their goals, *and* get the water for their clan's use (or to sell for their clan).
The other way is by simply insurrection. The occasional riot, raid on government convoys and installations, lobbing mortars into a refinery or two, attacking army patrols.
Nixing the old man Bugti is probably going to rile things up, but sends a nice message, even if it was an accident (I'm not convinced it was, but for the sake of honor and dignity truth is can be dispensed with). Armed conflict has been avoided: conflict with the feds has almost always been started by the tribal side. Taking it them is necessary, at some point.
But of course, it's an insult, so to regain their dignity the Bugtis (and others, in sympathy) have to show exactly how honorable they are by destroying some stuff, injuring people, and possibly even committing a murder or two.
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This is the thing which makes me angry thinking we lost the Kargil War. I dont know what kind of propaganda you hear. India was never serious about doing table talk about kashmir and this conflict made india realize that this must be discussed on the table. We as pakistanis should not say publicly we lost wars we can say it amongst pakistanis but it would be foolish to say it internationally. This biggot nawaz sharif is an example.
Re: Kargil, near Tiger Hil- point 5353
You said but the problem is... What problem is? where is the problem? who created and made it a problem for us? What have we got after making it our problem number 1?
Are we on the loosing side or we gained anything.
Its a doctrine of army who wanted to have an enemy to keep getting the budget. Nothing more. They keep loosinng when ever the fought. Dont make any one a fool. And ask the army and its generals to take kargil in there arses. If they are brave enough then get rid of taliban and get rid of the cells inside the army. To heck with there mental sickness and to heck with any one who supports this sickness. We need peace and a good economy. if we are economically in a good condition the indians and americans will get in lines to take our visas. Other wise this is all we will get.
You said but the problem is... What problem is? where is the problem? who created and made it a problem for us? What have we got after making it our problem number 1?
Are we on the loosing side or we gained anything.
Its a doctrine of army who wanted to have an enemy to keep getting the budget. Nothing more. They keep loosinng when ever the fought. Dont make any one a fool. And ask the army and its generals to take kargil in there arses. If they are brave enough then get rid of taliban and get rid of the cells inside the army. To heck with there mental sickness and to heck with any one who supports this sickness. We need peace and a good economy. if we are economically in a good condition the indians and americans will get in lines to take our visas. Other wise this is all we will get.
India realize? hahah come on give us some more crap fromm your mind. come on. Give me some links give me some proof of what you are talking about. No sickness just linnks. let me know who said it.
Faisal Vohra
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
We did not lost the war, it was a battle with no results, if Pakistani Politicians have not bow down to A,merica, then we would have won that battle too. Our troops were out numbered, Indian used Airforce and we could not because Nawaz didnot have the balls
