Front Line - 21st Nov 2010 - Toheen e Risalat (S.A.W) Ka Qaanoon
- Thread starter Front Line
- Start date
Ehraz
MPA (400+ posts)
Invite any Scholar of Pakistan - sub ke sub Jahil hain.
This law is unfair to Islam itself
There is no compulsion in religion
The blasphemy law is hypocritical and prejudicial against minorities and most of the times it is used as personal revenge against the opponents.Muslims are also targeted because of personal revenge, i know couple of cases myself which were purely based on personal revenge thats why i am so against it and the targets were none other than muslims .This law was made by Zia ul haq,who pretend to be the supreme commander of the muslims so he got what he deserved.Under this law ,thousands of innocents were tortured and killed by the illiterate religious fanatics who have no knowldge of islam.Abolish this racist law and free Asia, dont make ourselves fool in the eyes of the world who already have negative thinking about pakistanis .we have to separate the religion from politics otherwise innocents will be keep on suffering.Serve the human beings properly and nicely ,thats what the real religion is .
I will give one example of blasphemy,earlier this year one mill owner in faisalabad fired his one employee becuause he was not doing the job properly for some time-that same guy went to the near mosque and said to the people there that the mill owner threw "Quran" on the ground and cursing our prophet(NB),people from the mosque went to that mill with iron bars and sticks,without investigating the reality-that mob brutally killed the mill owner who was a muslim and drag his dead body all over .It was reported in the media so where does the innocents stand ,there are stupid idiots like them take the life of an innocent.Police is scared from these people also,politicians dont want to enrage them but someone have to do something about it.If a person goes to the police station and said that xyz is cursing and abusing our religion,police will just arrest him,put him behind bar without any proper investigation,courts are also scared from these vultures so who is gonna take first step to abolish this racist law.
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tiger54
MPA (400+ posts)
this is why i say a state should be secular! this is what happens when a state sets it priorities for one religion over another!
god save us from this taliban minded people! we need to hang these fake alamas!
why dont they quote the example of our prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.h) when he forgave the people who are throwing stones at him!
god save us from this taliban minded people! we need to hang these fake alamas!
why dont they quote the example of our prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.h) when he forgave the people who are throwing stones at him!
redaxe
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Islam is a religion based on the Quran and Saying of Holy Prophet PBUH, but this molvi haven't given any reference from the Quran or Ahadeeth.
Following is one verse from Quran surah-e-Maida verse 33/32
جس نے بھی کسی ایسے نفس کو قتل کیا جس نے کسی دوسرے کی جان نہ لی ہو یا زمین میں فساد نہ پھیلایا ہو تو گویا اس نے تمام انسانوں کو قتل کر دیا۔ اور جس نے اُسے زندہ رکھا تو گویا اس نے تمام انسانوں کو زندہ کردیا اور یقیناً ان کے پاس ہمارے رسول کھلے کھلے نشانات لے کر آ چکے ہی
Following is one verse from Quran surah-e-Maida verse 33/32
جس نے بھی کسی ایسے نفس کو قتل کیا جس نے کسی دوسرے کی جان نہ لی ہو یا زمین میں فساد نہ پھیلایا ہو تو گویا اس نے تمام انسانوں کو قتل کر دیا۔ اور جس نے اُسے زندہ رکھا تو گویا اس نے تمام انسانوں کو زندہ کردیا اور یقیناً ان کے پاس ہمارے رسول کھلے کھلے نشانات لے کر آ چکے ہی
Abdul Allah
Minister (2k+ posts)
Please do not comment on any thing with out knowledge and reference
Misuse of this law should be stopped agreed and it should be very strictly checked for any misuse.
but does this law goes against Islam?
well for this you should check Quran/Hadith and of acts of Sahaba
But any one must Keep one thing in mind that It is duty of state to carried this out.
So here is something for you.
Acts of sahaba
Sahi Muslim
It has been narrated on the authority of 'Abd al-Rahman b. Auf who said: While I was standing in the battle array on the Day of Badr, I looked towards my right and my left, and found myself between two boys from the Ansar quite young in age. I wished I were between stronger persons. One of them made a sign to me and. said: Uncle, do you recognise abu Jahl? 1 said: Yes. What do you want to do with him, O my nephew? He said: I have been told that he abuses the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). By Allah, in Whose Hand is my life, if I see him (I will grapple with him) and will not leave him until one of us who is destined to die earlier is killed. The narrator said: I wondered at this. Then the other made a sign to me and said similar words. Soon after I saw abu Jahl. He was moving about among men. I said to the two boys: Don't you see? He is the man you were inquiring about. (As soon as they heard this), they dashed towards him, struck him with their swords until he was killed. Then they returned to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and informed him (to this effect). He asked: Which of you has killed him? Each one of them said: I have killed him. He said: Have you wiped your swords? They said: No. He examined their swords and said: Both of you have killed him. He then decided that the belongings of abu Jahl he handed over to Mu'adh b. Amr b. al-Jamuh. And the two boys were Mu'adh b. Amr b. Jawth and Mu'adh b. Afra. (Book #019, Hadith #4341)
And also please read A hadith from Sahi Abu dawood on same matter i am not going to post it here do search it you will find it easly. a hadith that clearly shows that any one who think it is against Islam is wrong.
Misuse of this law should be stopped agreed and it should be very strictly checked for any misuse.
but does this law goes against Islam?
well for this you should check Quran/Hadith and of acts of Sahaba
But any one must Keep one thing in mind that It is duty of state to carried this out.
So here is something for you.
Acts of sahaba
Sahi Muslim
It has been narrated on the authority of 'Abd al-Rahman b. Auf who said: While I was standing in the battle array on the Day of Badr, I looked towards my right and my left, and found myself between two boys from the Ansar quite young in age. I wished I were between stronger persons. One of them made a sign to me and. said: Uncle, do you recognise abu Jahl? 1 said: Yes. What do you want to do with him, O my nephew? He said: I have been told that he abuses the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). By Allah, in Whose Hand is my life, if I see him (I will grapple with him) and will not leave him until one of us who is destined to die earlier is killed. The narrator said: I wondered at this. Then the other made a sign to me and said similar words. Soon after I saw abu Jahl. He was moving about among men. I said to the two boys: Don't you see? He is the man you were inquiring about. (As soon as they heard this), they dashed towards him, struck him with their swords until he was killed. Then they returned to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and informed him (to this effect). He asked: Which of you has killed him? Each one of them said: I have killed him. He said: Have you wiped your swords? They said: No. He examined their swords and said: Both of you have killed him. He then decided that the belongings of abu Jahl he handed over to Mu'adh b. Amr b. al-Jamuh. And the two boys were Mu'adh b. Amr b. Jawth and Mu'adh b. Afra. (Book #019, Hadith #4341)
And also please read A hadith from Sahi Abu dawood on same matter i am not going to post it here do search it you will find it easly. a hadith that clearly shows that any one who think it is against Islam is wrong.
Abdul Allah
Minister (2k+ posts)
Now those who said that This law send a negative impact on world etc.... well which world you are talking about?
a world that have "Laws against Holocaust denial" that just by saying that Holocaust never happen one should go to jail for 1-3 years...
a world that have "Laws against Holocaust denial" that just by saying that Holocaust never happen one should go to jail for 1-3 years...
Abdul Allah
Minister (2k+ posts)
Bret Hawk
Senator (1k+ posts)
I think its just mere hatred and disgust by the torch bearers of western fascism and extremism (Which ironically they blame on the adherents of Islam) against every thing which is related to the domain of Islam and its hallowed teachings. In the lands of their almighty lords the blasphemy laws also exists till this day among the most notable of them all are the denial of holocaust massacres, prohibition of even the slaughtering of a group of sacred animals (as per the perceptions of few religious groups), to speak against the existing monarchs of the European continent (For instance the monarchs of UK, Belgium, Denmark etc) and to abuse the sanctity of their respective and glorified (as per their own exaggerations derived from the ideologies of nationalism and racial affiliations) freedom fighters, political & religious ideologues (yes even after the fake adoption of so called secular ideologies by such states) and so on.
The same shameful slaves of western imperialism (NGOs, human rights groups and the supporters of secularism and liberalism) here in Pakistan who never objected the brutal abductions, physical torture and maiming of living human beings, mass killings in the name of national security and eradicating “extremism” and God knows any sort of heinous activities which goes on day in day out basis? Further to compound their double standards and flagrant hypocrisy, I can enumerate many articles in the current constitution of Pakistan along with its clauses & sub clauses which are being misused by the same law enforcement and judicial authorities of Pakistan then by going to their analogy we should abandon and dissolve the current constitution of this state isn’t it? What a pathetic and miserable line of argument these scums of the earth put forward on such sensitive issues that I almost want to puke on their disgusting reasoning.
P.S. I have done an extensive debate in one of the threads of this very forum on this subject matter if someone have the tolerance and heart to digest the whole issue into a different perspective then he / she can feel free to go through the posts of this thread. Hopefully the interested individual will find some satisfactory explanations on the issue of blasphemy and apostasy. Insha Allah!
The same shameful slaves of western imperialism (NGOs, human rights groups and the supporters of secularism and liberalism) here in Pakistan who never objected the brutal abductions, physical torture and maiming of living human beings, mass killings in the name of national security and eradicating “extremism” and God knows any sort of heinous activities which goes on day in day out basis? Further to compound their double standards and flagrant hypocrisy, I can enumerate many articles in the current constitution of Pakistan along with its clauses & sub clauses which are being misused by the same law enforcement and judicial authorities of Pakistan then by going to their analogy we should abandon and dissolve the current constitution of this state isn’t it? What a pathetic and miserable line of argument these scums of the earth put forward on such sensitive issues that I almost want to puke on their disgusting reasoning.
P.S. I have done an extensive debate in one of the threads of this very forum on this subject matter if someone have the tolerance and heart to digest the whole issue into a different perspective then he / she can feel free to go through the posts of this thread. Hopefully the interested individual will find some satisfactory explanations on the issue of blasphemy and apostasy. Insha Allah!
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When prophet mohammad(PBUH) passed from one street at prayer time,one non-muslim lady use to throw garbage on our prophet but our prophet mohammad (PBUH) ,wipe it off ,ignore the incidence and walk away.One day that lady did't throw the garbage on our prophet so our prophet went to inquire what happened,found out that the lady was sick thats why she did't throw the garbage-the lady got so impressed by this gesture that she became muslim right away.Thats what the teachings of islam to be patient not rather become violent and cruel to take someone's life.Sunni council chaiman fazal karim said if govt released Aasia free,we will protest against the govt and Gov. who the hell fazal karim think he is ,does he own the religion of islam and like to see everyone killed who dont agree with him, because of these idiots our country have come on the edge of civil war .He should be treated like the Algerian govt did with those bloody illiterate religious fanatics, eliminate them completely.These fanatics have held the country hostage and unity of the country is in danger because of these B****.No wonder world is so scared from these fanatics.I dont think govt should show any kind of leniency to these fanatics,use the iron fist to shut them up. I also admire the efforts of Mr.salman Taseer to help release aasia.How many muslim countries have adopted "Blasphemy law" ?
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I like to give one more cruel incidence of blasphemy law that couple of years ago in gujranwala,one christian became muslim and start praying and reading Quran every day.One day he was reading holy Quran and by chance,holy Quran fell from his hands, he picked it up kissed quran felt very sad but finish his reading.After the reading he went to the street and talk to someone that by chance,holy book fell from his hands so what he should do in this case.That person he talked to ,start shouting that this person threw holy book on the ground and gathered some people from the neighbourhood-without finding the facts,people beat him to death, then those people tie the legs of that dead body to a jeep and drag the dead body around the city.There was no one to stop this cruelty even the police , now the country is paying the price.when dishonesty and cruelty cross the limits,then that nation have "AZAB-I-ELAHI" .what this coutry is going through,its not hard to understand it.I know some people wont like my arguments about it but not telling the truth is also a big sin.
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Brother Bret Hawk is right when he says that its been discussed in detail in another thread. However he like a "good muslim" ommitted the facts discussed. He put the link in his post of his own writings and few people who agree wtih his view points but failed to show the hole post where i have rebuttled his argument and shown him that he misquoted the Quranic verses. If you are interested in finding the truth, you need to read the whole thread not Brother Bret Hawks own view points and here is the link. I will let you read the hole thread and than decided.
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...to-Hypocrisy-Pope-Urges-Realease-of-Asia-Bibi
In my view, The biggest problem that we muslims face today is the we are forbidden to look into deep in Quran and islam. We have made Quran a holy books which should be kissed and put on the highest place in the house. If anyone of us gives reference to few Aayat(wrong reference, it maybe) we think he is a very knowlegdable. We will never bother to open the Holy Quran oursleve and read the surah to see if he is telling the truth or just taking Aayats out of context to prove his point. The onus lies with us to confirm and stop these self proclaimed scholars on these threads.
Like I was saying before, there was a time when muslim looked into the Quran as it is stated by Allah, "Their are clear signs from us for those who seek knowledge". When were were doing and looking into Quran, we came up with Bu Ali Sina, Abu Hashim and many other scientists who started, Math, Chemistry, Medical, astronomy and biology etc. The muslim were the leaders in the world. Then came a time when muslims were told to just kiss the quran, read it and put it away as you will not understand it and you should go to Maulvi sahab to ask question.
Most(Not all) of these Molvi sahabs are all those kids who run away from school after 3 or 4th grade or were not good in studies and their parents put them in a madressa to learn Quran. They might read Quran but don't have knowledge about the history, the shariat( the judisprudence) and all other aspect of the religion. If we make a list of Pakistani scholars who graduated from any accredited Islamic University to edcuated , the ratio will be less then 1%.
Now a days a new trend is started in Pakistan. If you read Quran and its tafseer and try to explain the reality to some one, he will call you "shameful slaves of western imperialism" or better "an american or Isreali agent" simple because they can't come up with a better arguement or they are not accpeting you interpratation of Islam.
Brothers just because we believe in peace, love and harmony you are accusing us being imperial slaves. We believe in Allah who is the most merciful, we beleive in the Prophet who was "rahmat-ul-Alamin" who forgave those who hurt him, we believe in sahab like Hazart Ali who forgave someone in a war, just because he spitted on his face. Revenage is your right and always available but Allah love those who forgive.
Islam seeks to reform the criminal. The Quran often makes mention of repentance in association with the crimes that it deals with, making it clear that the door to repentance is open whenever the criminal abandons his crime and behaves properly. It has made repentance a means of waiving a fixed punishment. God says:
“…except for those who repent before you take hold of them. Then know that God is the Forgiving, the Merciful.” (Quran 5:34)
God says regarding the punishment for fornication:
“It they both repent and mend their ways, then leave them alone. Verily, God is the Accepter of repentance, the Merciful.” (Quran 4:16)
God says after mentioning the punishment for false accusation:
“… except for those who repent afterwards and makes amends, then verily God is the Forgiving, the Merciful.”
God says after mentioning the prescribed punishment for theft:
“Whoever repents after his wrongdoing and makes amends, then verily God will accept his repentance and verily God is the Forgiving, the Merciful.” (Quran 5:39)
Now the Blasphemy law was always on the books since 1935 and it was extended in after 1977 Coup by gen. Zia who himself was a religious fanatic. His Majlis a shoora enacted on the amendement (1985) and created this extended blasphemy law. No one is saying the law is bad or everyone should not be punished if he says derogatory remarks about our holy prophet Muhammad(PBUH). The sensitive arguement is, its abuse in Pakistan. The courty where 95% are courpt and talking a rashvat(bribery) is a norm. Where witnesses are standing outside the court house to lie under oath for money and people are convicted everyday based on false testimonies. In this enviorment how will you enact on this law that requires 4 people to come forward to make up a story about blasphemy. How will you stop the abuse? We have so many case of absue of this law as highlighted in the program.
In my humble opinion, it should be enacted only if the Government is the plaintiff(complainant) a fair and impartial investigation by a judge is conducted and if found guilty, the death sentence should be served, However, if the court finding are that, it was a false accusation, those people who filed the original complaint and the witnesses who lied should be hanged in public. Trust me people will think million times before acusing anyone or falsely testifying.
Nowhere in Quran it states that a person committing blasphemy should be killed. The Quranic Aayat quotes by Brother Bred hawk are out of contest, and are related to waging a war against all and his messanger and the rules of war for the muslims.
Its the Almighty Allah who will punish them. Here is the correct reference Surah Al Ahzaab Ayat(57-58):
Surely (as for) those who speak evil things of Allah and His Messenger, Allah has cursed them in this world and the here after, and He has prepared for them a chastisement bringing disgrace.
And those who speak evil things of the believing men and the believing women without their having earned (it), they are guilty indeed of a false accusation and a manifest sin.
Asia bibi has repented. She has said in her interview that she believes the our Holy prophet Muhammad(PBUH) was the last Prophet. Now we should all pray that May ALLAH guide her to the right path and she becomes a muslim lady.
May Allah Bless us all.
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...to-Hypocrisy-Pope-Urges-Realease-of-Asia-Bibi
In my view, The biggest problem that we muslims face today is the we are forbidden to look into deep in Quran and islam. We have made Quran a holy books which should be kissed and put on the highest place in the house. If anyone of us gives reference to few Aayat(wrong reference, it maybe) we think he is a very knowlegdable. We will never bother to open the Holy Quran oursleve and read the surah to see if he is telling the truth or just taking Aayats out of context to prove his point. The onus lies with us to confirm and stop these self proclaimed scholars on these threads.
Like I was saying before, there was a time when muslim looked into the Quran as it is stated by Allah, "Their are clear signs from us for those who seek knowledge". When were were doing and looking into Quran, we came up with Bu Ali Sina, Abu Hashim and many other scientists who started, Math, Chemistry, Medical, astronomy and biology etc. The muslim were the leaders in the world. Then came a time when muslims were told to just kiss the quran, read it and put it away as you will not understand it and you should go to Maulvi sahab to ask question.
Most(Not all) of these Molvi sahabs are all those kids who run away from school after 3 or 4th grade or were not good in studies and their parents put them in a madressa to learn Quran. They might read Quran but don't have knowledge about the history, the shariat( the judisprudence) and all other aspect of the religion. If we make a list of Pakistani scholars who graduated from any accredited Islamic University to edcuated , the ratio will be less then 1%.
Now a days a new trend is started in Pakistan. If you read Quran and its tafseer and try to explain the reality to some one, he will call you "shameful slaves of western imperialism" or better "an american or Isreali agent" simple because they can't come up with a better arguement or they are not accpeting you interpratation of Islam.
Brothers just because we believe in peace, love and harmony you are accusing us being imperial slaves. We believe in Allah who is the most merciful, we beleive in the Prophet who was "rahmat-ul-Alamin" who forgave those who hurt him, we believe in sahab like Hazart Ali who forgave someone in a war, just because he spitted on his face. Revenage is your right and always available but Allah love those who forgive.
Islam seeks to reform the criminal. The Quran often makes mention of repentance in association with the crimes that it deals with, making it clear that the door to repentance is open whenever the criminal abandons his crime and behaves properly. It has made repentance a means of waiving a fixed punishment. God says:
“…except for those who repent before you take hold of them. Then know that God is the Forgiving, the Merciful.” (Quran 5:34)
God says regarding the punishment for fornication:
“It they both repent and mend their ways, then leave them alone. Verily, God is the Accepter of repentance, the Merciful.” (Quran 4:16)
God says after mentioning the punishment for false accusation:
“… except for those who repent afterwards and makes amends, then verily God is the Forgiving, the Merciful.”
God says after mentioning the prescribed punishment for theft:
“Whoever repents after his wrongdoing and makes amends, then verily God will accept his repentance and verily God is the Forgiving, the Merciful.” (Quran 5:39)
Now the Blasphemy law was always on the books since 1935 and it was extended in after 1977 Coup by gen. Zia who himself was a religious fanatic. His Majlis a shoora enacted on the amendement (1985) and created this extended blasphemy law. No one is saying the law is bad or everyone should not be punished if he says derogatory remarks about our holy prophet Muhammad(PBUH). The sensitive arguement is, its abuse in Pakistan. The courty where 95% are courpt and talking a rashvat(bribery) is a norm. Where witnesses are standing outside the court house to lie under oath for money and people are convicted everyday based on false testimonies. In this enviorment how will you enact on this law that requires 4 people to come forward to make up a story about blasphemy. How will you stop the abuse? We have so many case of absue of this law as highlighted in the program.
In my humble opinion, it should be enacted only if the Government is the plaintiff(complainant) a fair and impartial investigation by a judge is conducted and if found guilty, the death sentence should be served, However, if the court finding are that, it was a false accusation, those people who filed the original complaint and the witnesses who lied should be hanged in public. Trust me people will think million times before acusing anyone or falsely testifying.
Nowhere in Quran it states that a person committing blasphemy should be killed. The Quranic Aayat quotes by Brother Bred hawk are out of contest, and are related to waging a war against all and his messanger and the rules of war for the muslims.
Its the Almighty Allah who will punish them. Here is the correct reference Surah Al Ahzaab Ayat(57-58):
Surely (as for) those who speak evil things of Allah and His Messenger, Allah has cursed them in this world and the here after, and He has prepared for them a chastisement bringing disgrace.
And those who speak evil things of the believing men and the believing women without their having earned (it), they are guilty indeed of a false accusation and a manifest sin.
Asia bibi has repented. She has said in her interview that she believes the our Holy prophet Muhammad(PBUH) was the last Prophet. Now we should all pray that May ALLAH guide her to the right path and she becomes a muslim lady.
May Allah Bless us all.
Cause he is frm Ahl-e-hasees jamat and they r minority so they r powerful n dun forget they r supported by Saudi Arab so their visibility on media is also more (Zakir Naik is also an ahl-e-hadees). Mufti moneeb n others r ahl-e-sunnat.
I personally think Khaild Ranjhas suggestions are valuable n this law shuld never b misused. It earns a bad name for Islam n our Prophet SAW.
Haider Qureshi
Voter (50+ posts)
is hassas mozu par media nay sanjida aur zimma darana makalama shuru kar dia hay...so achhay ki umeed ki jani chahiay.
Bret Hawk
Senator (1k+ posts)
Brother Molson4u I need to confess one thing about me and which is that those people to whom I respect then I don’t like to argue persistently with them out of humbleness and restraint. You’re a respectable person no doubt and always use respectable decorum of such lively debates and I’m no doubt grateful to you for showing your respect to me and yet when it comes to the view points related to this academic debate you like to put forward your own opinion in an honest manner and I assure you, that I’m very much adhere to this notion as well. Respect is there and has its entity for some selective members of this forum (Because unfortunately majority of them are free from the concepts of brotherhood, morality and ethical norms of humanity). I can assure you that my harsh wordings on this thread was not directed towards you but towards the media personalities mainly which have appeared so far to express their misleading views on this sensitive issue. However I would like to differ on your point of view as well dear brother Molson and therefore earnestly would urge you to go through with my posts once again if you’ve got the time and try to tally them with the credible sources on which I’ve alluded to in my discussions and no doubt you can testify them with your own preferable sources as well on which you have the confidence to rely with on such disputed matters. May Allah SWT bless nice and respectful persons like you. Ameen!
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atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Mr. Bishop what would you say about JEWS and their attitude towards Hazrat Mariam and Hazrat Essa AS.
Throughout the history Christen used to persecute Jews for their believes towards Hazrat Mariam and Hazrat Essa AS until in last century Jews are given pardon by Christens for all the humiliation and insult Jews committed to Hazrat Essa AS.
Whole Christen world is stand guard to JEWs for what?
Throughout the history Christen used to persecute Jews for their believes towards Hazrat Mariam and Hazrat Essa AS until in last century Jews are given pardon by Christens for all the humiliation and insult Jews committed to Hazrat Essa AS.
Whole Christen world is stand guard to JEWs for what?
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