Egypt's so called "Islamic Revolution" and the IMF - Egypt requests IMF for $4.8 billion loan

[mrcritic]

EGYPT has formally asked the International Monetary Fund (IMF) for a $US4.8 billion ($A4.60 billion) loan to boost the country's sagging economy, and said it expects to reach a final agreement by the end of the year.
State TV said Egypt's leaders requested the $4.8 billion loan during a meeting on Wednesday with IMF chief Christine Lagarde in Cairo.

Kandil said the loan will be doled out in five phases, with an interest rate of 1.1 per cent, and that he expects to reach a final agreement with the IMF by no later than December.


Now my argument is:

Is the interest payable on a proposed loan from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) considered as usury and therefore haram? “Yes”, said several Islamist leaders, mainly from the Muslim Brotherhood. But that was before its own candidate, Muhammad Morsi became the president of Egypt. Now these same Islamist leaders are backpedaling, claiming that it is not haram after all, as it is not interest that is being paid on the IMF loan, but administrative fees. But this IMF Loan is not Sharia compliant!!

How can the same IMF loan turned from haram to halal simply because Muslim Brotherhood’s Muhammad Morsi is now the president
of Egypt? Will the IMF bend over and agree to make its loan to Egypt Sharia-compliant?

 

[Wadaich]

I don't know why but there is something fishy about this "Mursi" thing. .... ..... threatening Israel ...... ....... calling IMF. He looks like another "Lawrence of Arabia".

 

[Unicorn]

4.8 Billion I doubt they will get it. If they do than Pakistanis will be in a position to hold signs " Pakistan will never be Egypt " to get even with them.(bigsmile)

 

[KHALIFA.]

IMF doesn't give loan without interest, so where's the so called islam now ??

 

[AsifAmeer]

If you understand the difference b/w cyclical and structural, you'd understand the truth is much uglier than reality!

 

[AsifAmeer]

Also, look up Odious Debt Under international law. Egypt can default on its foreign loans and ask IMF to GTFO. But they wont because Egypt knows it produces less than what it consumes, just like Pakistan

 

[zhohaq]

Is the interest payable on a proposed loan from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) considered as usury and therefore haram? “Yes”, said several Islamist leaders, mainly from the Muslim Brotherhood. But that was before its own candidate, Muhammad Morsi became the president of Egypt. Now these same Islamist leaders are backpedaling, claiming that it is not haram after all, as it is not interest that is being paid on the IMF loan, but administrative fees. But this IMF Loan is not Sharia compliant!!

How can the same IMF loan turned from haram to halal simply because Muslim Brotherhood’s Muhammad Morsi is now the president
of Egypt? Will the IMF bend over and agree to make its loan to Egypt Sharia-compliant?

The Salafi Al Noor Party in Egypt is making the same criticism but the facts are not that simple.
Nothing in the world of finance is sharia compliant, not even, most of so called Islamic finance.
After Collapse of Bretton Wood system and the Dollar becoming the Global reserve currency, Interest is a structural part of the Global financial system. Talking about "intrest free" arrangement is baloney. Sure in a personal fiance level you can try to avoid interest, but in the macro scale you might as well start trading sea shells if you want Sharia comliance. Sad fact of the world.

As for the IMF loan. I dont think Egypt has much of an option. An year and a half of unrest has ruined the economy.
MB just got power a few months back the interim regime just passed the buck to them, after squandering the money KSA and Qtar and other shelled out(around $5.8 Billion) and refusing the IMF programme earlier.

Mubarik followed the dictats of IMFadvisors without even bothering to take up any loans so this is kind of a improvement. lol I do hope MB is able to wriggle it self out of this one.

http://www.opendemocracy.net/tarek-amr/egypt-imf-loan

 

[AsifAmeer]

Did you watch
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...ion-An-Interesting-take&p=1004589#post1004589

The Salafi Al Noor Party in Egypt is making the same criticism but the facts are not that simple.
Nothing in the world of finance is sharia compliant, not even, most of so called Islamic finance.
After Collapse of Bretton Wood system and the Dollar becoming the Global reserve currency, Interest is a structural part of the Global financial system. Talking about "intrest free" arrangement is baloney. Sure in a personal fiance level you can try to avoid interest, but in the macro scale you might as well start trading sea shells if you want Sharia comliance. Sad fact of the world.

As for the IMF loan. I dont think Egypt has much of an option. An year and a half of unrest has ruined the economy.
MB just got power a few months back the interim regime just passed the buck to them, after squandering the money KSA and Qtar and other shelled out(around $5.8 Billion) and refusing the IMF programme earlier.

Mubarik followed the dictats of IMFadvisors without even bothering to take up any loans so this is kind of a improvement. lol I do hope MB is able to wriggle it self out of this one.

http://www.opendemocracy.net/tarek-amr/egypt-imf-loan

 

[guest]

islamists behaving like first rate munafiq hypocrites...move on..nothing to see here....

 

[tz00007]

what has islam to do with taking a loan??

wake up u dumb ppl.. he has to run the country too...

if Islam is counted by load..then all Pakistanis are kafirs... since decades...lolz

no wonder y the world laughs at us..

 

[zhohaq]

Did you watch
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...ion-An-Interesting-take&p=1004589#post1004589

Thanks I first thought you linked to that silly Salon Article I had already read, will look at this seems interesting::biggthumpup:

Silly Salon Article:http://www.salon.com/2012/08/31/the_gold_standard_delusion/

 

[gazoomartian]

@mrcritic

EGYPT has formally asked the International Monetary Fund (IMF) for a $US4.8 billion ($A4.60 billion) loan to boost the country's sagging economy, and said it expects to reach a final agreement by the end of the year.
State TV said Egypt's leaders requested the $4.8 billion loan during a meeting on Wednesday with IMF chief Christine Lagarde in Cairo.

Kandil said the loan will be doled out in five phases, with an interest rate of 1.1 per cent, and that he expects to reach a final agreement with the IMF by no later than December.


Now my argument is:

Is the interest payable on a proposed loan from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) considered as usury and therefore haram? “Yes”, said several Islamist leaders, mainly from the Muslim Brotherhood. But that was before its own candidate, Muhammad Morsi became the president of Egypt. Now these same Islamist leaders are backpedaling, claiming that it is not haram after all, as it is not interest that is being paid on the IMF loan, but administrative fees. But this IMF Loan is not Sharia compliant!!

How can the same IMF loan turned from haram to halal simply because Muslim Brotherhood’s Muhammad Morsi is now the president
of Egypt? Will the IMF bend over and agree to make its loan to Egypt Sharia-compliant?
​

The country is trying to start out again without all the money looted by Mubarak govt. What would they do, any suggestions?

Can the oil rich nations bail them out like EU bailed out Greece?? NOT. Middle East is too busy buy arms from the US weapon manufacturers. Also, this is the reason why Free Masons have destroyed Egypt to put it again in their debt.

 

[gotti]

Sabse pehlay to mujhe tag kernay ka bahut bahut shukriya

Phir, main shukriya ada kerna chahunga Milton Friedman aur Ben Bernanke ki najaiz aulad ka kay unhon nay hum ghareeb or jahil logon ko apni maujudgi aur ilm say nawaza

Dar asal baat yeh hai dosto kay Ameeeka ki yaari say faida yeh hai kay Washington main qaaim IMF aapko loan dayta hai

Yeh loan misr ko iss liye laina parra kyunkay unhain aik inqilaab say nawaza gaya hai jiss ki deal zara yun hai:

Buy one revolution, get one loan free and never ending debt trap as a side order

Yeh mustaqqil pithu bana nay ki tarkeeb Amreeka nay Russia say seekhi hai jis nay Iran main iss qism ka "islami" inqilaab la ker apna mustaqqil pithu wahan qaaim kiya

Wahan, kyunkay dunya say taaluqat munqatta ho gaye to Russia nay apnay hathyar aur technology kay darwazay kholay aur gas pohonchanay ka bandobast kiya

Yahan, misr main, gas ya oil nahi laikin suez canal hai aur wo hi mulk ki zarya e aamdani hai to Saudi ki tarah sirf hathyar ya banking ki madad say kaam nahi chalaya ja sakta

Saudi main aajkal kaafi paisa hai aur amreeka uska maqrooz ho chuka hai kyunkay jo tel (oil) amreeka ya deegar mumaalik ko becha jata hai, uskay zariye Saudi amreeka ki hakumat kay bonds khareedtay hain, jis say amreeka ki hakumat ka paiyya ghumta hai...saudi kay saath saath amreeka China ka bhi maqruz hai

Ab saudi ki daulat aur Pakistan kay zarye china say taaluqat honay ki wajah say Egypt hi iss khitay ka haqeeqi pithu ban sakta hai

Iss liye mere azeez aur jazbaati bhaiyyo, iss maslay ko shar'i ya ghair shar'i bunyaadon per rakh kay na dekho

Maamla bain al aqwaami siasat yaani middle east say east Asia main "drift" honay wali siasat ka hai

Apni iman ki hararat per qaabu paiyye

Momino, iss topic ko Allah kay nur say na dekho

aur kisi gumraah do numberi investor ki matrix wali nigaahon say to bilkul bhi na dekho kyunkay un nigaahon per lagi hui k.ali ainak sirf numbers dekh sakti hai

Badqismati say, won ainak siasat ya dunya ko to kya unn numbers ko bhi seedhi tarah nahi dekh sakti (andheray main chashmay laganay say yeh hi hota hai)

Main aap logon ki tawajjo ka bahut mashkoor hun

 

[mrcritic]

@gotti loved your quote - "Buy one revolution, get one loan free and never ending debt trap as a side order"

(clap)(clap)

 

[gazoomartian]

I don't know why but there is something fishy about this "Mursi" thing. .... ..... threatening Israel ...... ....... calling IMF. He looks like another "Lawrence of Arabia".

Who played Lawrence of Arabai? Was it Peter Oh Fool?

 

[mehwish_ali]

قرضہ لے کر بھی اخوان المسلمین کم از کم مبارک کی "کرپٹ" حکومت سے اپنے آپ کو بہتر ثابت کر سکتی ہے۔
جتنی بھی آمدنی ہو، اُسے انصاف اور طریقے سے عوام کی فلاح و بہبود کے لیے خرچ کیا جائے تو کوئی وجہ نہیں کہ مستقبل قریب میں اخوان مصر کو ان غیر ملکی قرضوں سے نجات دلانے میں کامیاب نہ ہو۔
حتی کہ اگر آج عمران خان بھی حکومت میں آئے گا تو وہ بھی ابتدائی طور پر قرضے کے لیے آئی ایم ایف کے پاس لازمی جائے گا۔

اور تو اور کیا آپ بھول گئے کہ طالبان دور حکومت میں جب کابل کے سٹیڈیم میں فٹبال کی بجائے لوگوں کو لٹکانے اور پھانسیاں دینے اور گولیوں سے قتل کرنے کے لیے استعمال کیا جانے لگا اور اس پر عالمی برادری نے احتجاج کیا تو طالبان حکومت کا وزیر خارجہ بیان دے رہا تھا کہ پھر عالمی ادارے ہمیں پیسہ دیں تاکہ فٹبال کے سٹیڈیم میں فٹبال ہو اور پھانسی دینے اور لٹکانے کے لیے علیحدہ سٹیڈیم بنایا جا سکے۔

پیسہ اس دنیا کی ایک حقیقت ہے۔ پیسہ ایک کمزوری ہے، مگر اس کمزوری پر رفتہ رفتہ قابو پایا جا سکتا ہے۔

​

 

[gotti]

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​

main firqawarana baaton ka muntazir tha...aadhi post parrhi, samajh na aya kay inn aunty nay ahl-e-tashi ya iran ka zikr nahi kiya ya unki policy ko nahi shaamil kiya

phir mujhe, mubarak waali baat samajh aayi, laikin khair humain misr, libya aur tunisia main acha lagta hai "inqilaab", syria main nahi

meri favorite video hai (bigsmile)

acha, phir uskay baad aapnay afghanistan main qaaim inteha-pasand hakumat ko hadaf banaya takay log uska difa kerain aur aap un per ilzaam lagain inteha-pasandi aur
pata nahi kis aur cheez ka

laikin kiya iran main bhi beech bazaar main logon ko taanga nahi jaata aur aurton ki bayhurmati aur qatal nahi kiya jata?

agar aapko iran ki inteha-pasandi say koi ikhtilaaf nahi to phir afghanistan ko kis mun say bura keh rahi hain?

ho sakta hai kay shayad aapko sirf mazhabi firqay say ikhtelaaf hai, inteha-pasandi chalay gi ;)