Economic future of pakistan lies is less taxation , less size of government and islamic capitalism

shaikh

Minister (2k+ posts)
OVERTAXATION FOR NOTHING

An erroneous impression in many power circles and even media is that people do not pay taxes in Pakistan and that for national development we should pay taxes to the tune of whatever percentage a government specifies which should be similar to that of western governments. i.e 20-40% range.

Nothing could be more wrong than this impression. Every soap, every toothpaste , every pepsi , every car and education is taxed. Even interest on savings is taxed , every sizable import even personal is taxed. Just sit in a general store and read inscriptions of taxes.

My view is that if all Pakistanis pay 30% taxation like some Western governments receive , it is not that every unemployed will start to receive allowances or that health care will become free, more likely is that all national money will evaporate abroad via politicians and civil servants in three years time and wide spread closure of industries and starvation will start in this country due to lack of business. The private sector uses single rupee atleast five times in a year , public sector cannot outperform this.


Pakistan needs a smaller govermment and lesser horde of civil servants if it is to prosper .Those politicians who wish to tax more should be rejected outright.

There is also a misguided clamour that rich should be taxed more , this too is self damaging as it is the rich which invests and creates employment. others do not have surplus capital to contribute to economy.

Pakistan's growth rate which is now hardly even 3% was above 10% in Ayub era thanks to respect for private enterprise and strong one unit and presidential system with one overall incharge. All democratic periods of Pakistan were anarchic, slow growth periods. Zia period showed 4-6% Growth rate, Bhutto's period started with average growth and ended in 2% growth rate with negative rate for industrial production.

It is capitalism and capital based economy which can generate funds for non earning populations like under 20 years or house bound females or above 60 years older persons . Without this model you simply cannot have sustaining system for non productive individuals.

The state of Pakistan is keen to show you TV documentaries of roads and bridges being made out of taxes but is not prepare to enter into specific person to government bilateral guaranteed contract or understanding with tax payers that if they pay full tax they will have state benefits for the rest of life. I doubt any state representative will even pay for funeral of a tax payer. Heard anyone being so honoured !.

Ever year every house owner will receive a letter from income office directing to bring lease contract as if house has been leased.

Bhutto like Nehru did not want any person to fund opposition as dynasties were to be built . So they in the name of poor people did not allow growth of private sector or for society to have capital and Bhutto nationalized industries and banks. Mubashar Hassan his finance minister can easily be called the first real Brake on well growing economy of Pakistan. These days this man gives interviews as if he is was an expert. We survived despite him and his boss.

What does state need the funds for ? Our well being , No , they want to fund themselves .

Islamabad Traffic police is good example of mini tax collectors . See them carrying Challan books , you will not see them carry traffic rule book as is required in every car and cop . They will hide in one corner awaiting for you to do something wrong rather than come in front and guide traffic . They will spot a car driver not wearing belt but will not bother that 50% motorcyclists have no rear view mirrors and in danger to die. A ITP villager origin cop will feel great in harassing and fining a female educated lady. He will seize identity card of fined person illegally as keeping ID card is mandated by law. Governmental taxes end up in this way funding such collectors.

Nawaz sharif in previous administration used to tax houses in what was called wealth tax as if a House is hen which even if not rented will yield eggs . Obviously damaging the standard of living of people. Musharaf got the nation rid of those taxes. Last time too it was Ishaq Dar who played an important advisory role , these days too he is busy making IMF happy.

The current 1973 constitution of Pakistan does not give perpetual Islamic right of property and that is the reason that even though state got land at a rate of 70 ruppees per canal in 1960s in Islamabad and though sells these at even 200000/ per yard now and even as early as 1967 for 7000/canal and yet after receiving such amounts gives land to you on lease for at best 99 years , as it does not believe that you own it . Like emperors of the old times it believes that all property belongs to the king (state) . Any DC can order that your property is required for such and such community purpose , and now compare this with prophet of Islam who thought that even the land owned by real owners of spot where Masjid Nabvi is need to be located and paid.

Yes , only respect for investor , for property and for capitalism can result in sustained growth and those clamouring for increasing of taxes be sent packing home.

T
 

shaikh

Minister (2k+ posts)
The word should have been Islam permissible capitalism not Islamic capitalism.

Usual Capitalism often allows any type of business to be run such as wine bars , prostitution houses and so on , Islam permissible capitalism is subject to islamic principles both financial and moral .
 

Unicorn

Banned
The word should have been Islam permissible capitalism not Islamic capitalism.

Usual Capitalism often allows any type of business to be run such as wine bars , prostitution houses and so on , Islam permissible capitalism is subject to islamic principles both financial and moral .

There are legal trades and illegal trades depending on govt.

You definition is way to vague make any assessment. I can see very clearly from the posts one scholar agrees on permissibility while other disagrees.
 

GeoG

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
The word should have been Islam permissible capitalism not Islamic capitalism.

Usual Capitalism often allows any type of business to be run such as wine bars , prostitution houses and so on , Islam permissible capitalism is subject to islamic principles both financial and moral .

Good effort,
Lets start with basic question.
Does Islam places any moral limits on profit ratio or maximum rate of profit ceiling?
 

Darik

MPA (400+ posts)
We have 59 muslim counties but non of them have a true Islamic Banking system. So called Islamic Banking in Pakistan is not a Islamic. Only by naming Islamic Banking does not make it islami. I wonder why can't we develop an Islamic Banking System of our own. The mulana and scholars have to work on it. It is so sab that Interest taking is a war against God but no one takes it serious.
 

Shareef

Minister (2k+ posts)
Excellent suggestions. Couldn't agree more. Pray these suggestions are implemented sooner than later.
 

Sedqal

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
- The indirect taxes are there because large segment of population does not pay taxes. The tax increase also hits the salaried class as there is nominal taxation on agricultural goods and traders most often don't pay it.

- Earnings from Stock exchanged should be taxed more, specifically taxes should be put on property (sale/ purchase) earnings. The salaried class is being singled out at the moment and pays double taxes (direct taxes via income tax and indirect taxes on good - which were imposed to tackle the shortfall created due to non-payment of taxes by a vast majority).

- I agree that percentage of taxes should be reduced once tax net is increased.
 

shaikh

Minister (2k+ posts)
Indirect taxes collect a lot of money and direct taxation is not really needed. We need to reduce size of government. There is no point in taxing atleast government salaried class as there is no fun in giving and then taking back. Via indirect taxation already all 180 million are tax payers, there is no point in going for direct taxation which is just a nuisance for society and door to corruption and high handedness of income tax staff.

The idea that those with more wealth pay a higher percentage of tax is bogus and notice that Zakat for example is not levied at a higher rate for rich or that rich are ordered to pray 10 times a day rather than five.

Governments encourage politicians who talk of more taxation.

About what is permissible and what is not economically I did try to start a thread in Islamic forum but was closed for reasons i do not know .

One of the problems is while in Quran there are very few laws and restrictions , the interpreters of Islamic law seem to make them more as this class is not involved in commerce or reality on land .
 

Shareef

Minister (2k+ posts)
Agree with shaikh.
We pay tax when we buy toilet paper, eat in a restaurant, put fuel in our car, make a telephone call, buy an airline ticket, purchase medicines, visit a cinema hall, buy a pocket of cigarettes, even a matchbox. In fact almost every thing a person does he/she is paying tax to the government. This amounts to phenomenal revenue income. If spent honestly and thriftily, this is more than enough to run the government. Yes if we spend unfathomable amounts on defence, overhead and non productive government expenditures, then this is not enough, nor will any further amount collected be enough. The solution is not in raising more taxes, but reducing government expenditures is the answer. There is no need to tax salaries or other legal income. Only Luxurious houses (above 2 Kanals) and luxurious vehicles (above 1500 cc) should be taxed directly. Public transport should be allowed free of tax.
Setting our priorities right instead of preying on more taxes from peoples hard earned money, is the right approach forward.
 

shaikh

Minister (2k+ posts)
Already Tax collection is more than two trillion Rupees. Which is quite a sum considering that state has not taken any duty of free health care , education or retirement benefits for every citizen . Only a few million state service employees are covered that too mostly in higher cadres.

There are three interested parties in increasing taxation in Pakistan , first and foremost are the civil servants who want ever increasing expansion of civil service so that all grade 16 of today can become director generals of next decades with large departments , second are military generals who despite atomic devices are not reducing conventional arms expenditure and third are politicians who want tens of thousands of jobs for their non merit type voters including ghost workers.

Although for the last 23 years there are plans to privatize , WAPDA, Railways and almost all departments but these departments are not only still gobbling up hundreds of 500 billions of rupees but WAPDA will not allow private power producers to use its electricity network , nor railways allow to use their rail lines to run private sector trains , nor Civil Aviation allow any large number of airlines. No business is allowed whenever possible by state monopolies .

A third rate performing judicial setup means that financial wheel cannot restart soon in case of any dispute.

Direct Taxation of any kind must end , it is a recipe to harassment of individuals . I am not concerned if any body is driving BMW or lives in Mansion as along as on the way reasonable taxation is paid there is no need to remind someone that he is living in a big house every year . What has state to do with it.

A rural origin low education custom inspector or policeman or any state empowered employee is always to ready to pounce upon urban respectables the moment you allow their departments to expand their function.

A friend of mine opened a factory, even before it started to produce any profit the social security inspectors , labor inspectors , income tax men and even local political walas invaded for their pie . Ultimately he locked the factory and moved to Punjab.

The time has arrived that demonstrations against more state taxation must occur and rubber stamp parliaments are done away with.
 

AsifAmeer

Siasat.pk - Blogger
You forgot to mention the 8~12% inflation, which too is an indirect tax derived from the federal deficit.

Lekin glad to year your opinions.

Here's what I have realized so far. Banking is a necessary evil. You need it to counter/leverage hoarding of currency. But Banks should not be viewed at "Private Entities". They are not private. They are not even public corporation. They are more like Utility companies that can only work thru powers of the State.

Instead of "lending", Banks should only be allowed to "invest". There is a major difference. One draws profits via interest - i.e. guarantied profits, while investing is equity based profit sharing. The Germans practiced this form of banking before WW1. This practice was laid to rest after the World wars settled. Dont compare this with Islamic Banking, which is similar to halal prostitution. Islamic Banks buy and sell securities/bonds in the repo markets which gets its liquidity from the Central Bank. Central Banking is the way Risk is centralized, causing economies to blow up instantaneously.

Equity Sharing would mitigate risk and will not centralize it. Also, it keeps participants' "skin in the game"
 

shaikh

Minister (2k+ posts)
Another mode which is possible in Banking is that banks are directed to keep profit making audit accounts of various types of profits accruing ventures separate and this information is available to a board of Islamic reviewers to calculate as to which types of business activities bore profits regarded as Islamically clean and how much .

Banks do many types of activities not all of which are objectionable commercial activities as far as Islamic teachings are concerned.
 

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