M Ali Khan

Minister (2k+ posts)
Good article on the start of the Shia-Sunni violence in the 1980s.

But the article missed on two VERY important factors:

1) killing of Allama Syed Arif ul Hussaini in 1988 by Sipah-e-Sahaba hitmen in Peshawar (as I added in article)

2) Saudi-UAE-Kuwaiti support to Salafi/Deobandi/Wahhabi entities to counter Iran
 

1234567

Minister (2k+ posts)
IT WILL KEEP HAPPENING, SHIA KILLING, SUNNI KILLING UNTIL WE START UNDERSTANDING RELIGION OURSELVES AND DON'T TRUST SO CALLED MOLVIES. WE SHOULD BECOME MUSLIM, PAKISTANI AND MASTER OF OUR LIFE. :jazak:
 

QaiserMirza

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
سارا مسلہ ، نفرتیں ، تشدد اس وقت شروع ہوتیں ہیں جب ایک دوسرے کے عقاید میں دخل اندازی کی جاتی ہے
مسلمانوں کو کوئی مطلب نہیں کہ ہندو کب کب کس کس بت کی پوجا کرتے ہیں
یا عیسائی اتوار کو اپنی عبادت کرتے ہیں یا منگل کو
یا رافضی ١٠ محرم کو کٹائی کرتے ہیں یا ٩ ربع الاول کو
جب بھی کوئی ہندو عقاید میں دخل دے گا ان کی طرف سے مزاحمت ہوگی
اسی طرح جب بھی کوئی مسلمانوں کے عقاید میں دخل دیگا یا مسلمانوں کے قابل احترام ہستیوں پر انگلی اٹھائے گا جواب میں اس سے بڑھ کر ہی پائے گا

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wadera

Senator (1k+ posts)
This column/article did not do full justice to the topic at hand.

Fundamental questions were not asked / answered. In my opinion there should be some solutions or scenarios leading to potential solutions that must be offered. Simply, listing some events doesn't help much. To say we are divided is an understatement; we are divided in religion, in language, in ethnicity, etc etc

However, the biggest division in our country is the division of haves and haves not. May Allah have mercy on us, Ameen.
 

M Ali Khan

Minister (2k+ posts)
and wat abt iran supportin shiates against sunnis??

you did not read the article then. read it first, then talk dear

This column/article did not do full justice to the topic at hand.

Fundamental questions were not asked / answered. In my opinion there should be some solutions or scenarios leading to potential solutions that must be offered. Simply, listing some events doesn't help much. To say we are divided is an understatement; we are divided in religion, in language, in ethnicity, etc etc

However, the biggest division in our country is the division of haves and haves not. May Allah have mercy on us, Ameen.
i agree it is a very basic, but still praiseworthy, effort to highlight what historical events and developments saw the mess here in Pakistan.
 

zhohaq

Minister (2k+ posts)
The article is balanced only by the standards of Dawn and the local press.
The History of Afghan Jihad , Saudi funding etc is well known and has been written about in extensive detail but invariably misses out on some of the history of the rise of Khomeinism in Pakistan. Sunni Militancy no matter how violent has been a reactionary force to the allegedly "Revolutionary" aspirations of Khomeni inspired Shia Activism.
This clashed with the earlier model in which Shia-Sunni have coexisted in Pakistan largely peacefully ased on their shared identity in colonial India. Shias have in no way been marginalised in either the government apparatus or the politcs.

Without knowing about this angle you cant understand the whole issue.


ISO was founded in 72 and embraced Khomeniem early only even before the 1979 revolution. Like Basij militia in Iran or Hizbullah it enforces vilyah e Fiqah as the dominant ideology in the heterogeneous Shia community in Pakistan.
Its leader Syed Hasan Zaidi in a interview to Islam times in 2009. states these facts. He also says that Vilayat Fiqah has no boundries and that ISO takes orders directly from the Khameini office in Iran. Infact on assuming power in 1989 Khameni made apoint to address the ISO directly, outlining his vision for Pakistan.http://farsi.khamenei.ir/speech-content?id=2105. He also addresed other Paksitnai Shai groups with his vision http://farsi.khamenei.ir/speech-content?id=2551.

The first community to be radicalised was Parachina Toori Shias. Who have a historic reputation for being fiercely independent and militant. Ali Akbar Omid-Mehr Iranian Diplomat in Pakistan who later defected to the west is on record saying it was Khomeinis policy to use Parachinar as a "Spring board" into Pakistan. The reason for Khomeis fixation on Parachinar was that he fell under influence of Syed Arif Hussein al Husseini a cleric from Parachinar visiting Khomeini in exile in Iraq in the 1970. He later followed Khoemi in Qom and became his clerical representative to Pakistan.
The Shia Militants followed well established models in Iraq and Lebanon. The two main militants organization in the Kurrum valley called the "Mahdi Militia" and the "Hizbullah" respectively. They are led by clerics who received religious instruction in Qoma nd further military experience in camps in the Bekaa Valley.

In 1984 in a convention Arif Al Huseini was elected as the chairman of TNFJ. This led to a group of traditional Shia leaders to leave the group being wary of the disruptive Iranian Influence.

In an Interview to Maliha Lodhi published dint he thrid world quarterly April 1988. Arif Husseini minces in no words and said that the goal was to make Pakistan a Shia Theocratic state modeled on Iran.

A hint at the radicalisation of Shia groups in the eighties can be gauged by Khameini visit to Pakistan in 1986.(Detailed in Wikileaks cable:86ISLAMABAD1587). Iran per policy wanted to stoke Anti Americanism that had receded in the Muslim World after Americans started funding the Afghan Jehad project. So the rallies for his arrival were virulently anti American and Pro Libya(Qadhafi was being bombed by the Americas for the Berlin Disco Bombing etc).
Zia car was surrounded by Shia activist and obscene gestures were made. Activist were brought in from the entire country to Lahore and Islamabad to welcome Khameini.
Shia activism included proselyting and settling,conversion in Mastung by Quetta based activist. And militancy in Gilgat Baltistan that nec necessitated operation in the eighties.

Its in this climate that the reactionary Sunni militant groups started forming primarily in Central punjab. They used the unique class conflict to their advantage. i.e the large landowning class or Pirs are mostly of Shia extraction. The landless tenants are Sunni. Hence LeJ,SSP, Riaz Basra wtc and most of the sectarian Sunni militancy can be traced to the district of Jhang.

The third aspect is how the Shia all seminaries(Around a hundred or so) in Pakistan with 15,000 students and 4000 clergy (Figures from BBC farsi service Harun Najifzada) all have fallen into direct Iranian Influence.All are linked to the seminary in Qom through their international outreach office (The Daftar-e Tabliqat-e Eslami-e Howzeh-e Elmiyeh-e Qom). While the traditionalist earlier were linked to Najaf ,Karbala prior the revolution.
The clerical power of the Marjah broke down and was replaced by the Irani theocratic state radicle Vilayat e Fiqah Aagenda.

This can be gauged by statements of prominent clerics like Syed Jawad Naqvi who liozie Khameini. He also follwed the regime line in denouncing the Green movement protest in Iran writing a small book on it(Book about the Defeat of the velvet Revolution:http://www.hawzah.net/FA/NewsView.html?NewsID=81069.). He regularly speaks in Iran at various forums, the state controlled iranian press has called him Pakistan Hassan Nasrullah)

Syed Sajid Naqvi of TJp has been even more effusive in his praise to Khameni policy.Speaking in the Internation Islamic Awakening conference in Iran. He is on record as saying the Khameni would trnasform the region in the Arab srping.(Ahle Bayt News Agency http://www.abna.ir/data.asp?lang=3&id=266215.)

So any mosque constructed or Seminary has to get approval and funding from the office of Qom.
Here is an example for an application fo ra mousqe in Quetta and a Smeinary elsewhere
http://farsi.khamenei.ir/sahifeh-content?id=14855
http://farsi.khamenei.ir/sahifeh-content?id=13759.


On the Conflict in Kurrum the narrative in the press is one sided. Its tribal war based on limited resources etc fuelled by outside forces on Both sides.
The Sunni Bangash and Parcham Kani tribes control Lower and central Kurrum while the Shia toori control Upper Kurrum.
The Shia Toori receive funding an training from Iran and NA faction sympathetic to their cause.
Iran clergy as detailed above have historicle ties and use the lopsided account of Kurrum as a potent proparganda tool(Khameni and the official press have compared it to Gaza), NA and the Afghan govt see them as useful and effective proxies in the otherwise unsympathetic tribal areas. Also the Toori living on the Border region help secure it from inflitrators. Kurrum border being close to Kabul.

The two Shia militias as stated above are well equipped. and well motivated called the Mahdi militia and Hizbullah.They are led by radical cleric Adil Hussein al Husseini.
The Sunnis turned to TTP militants. These Wikileaks cables detail the entire conflict which is pretty vicious on both sides by now. Thanks to the govt non intervention in 07 when Sunni villages were attacked(around Sadda and Baghazi) and the Sunni enclave of Bushera was cut off from the rest of kurrum.
THe non intervention probably stems from the Colonial era policy of keeping the Levies (Kurrams police force ) and Kurrum Militia a predominantly Shia force. At tit for tat response followed that included TTP and Hafiz Gul bahadur group supporting the Bangash tribes. The intrest of TTP is that Kurrum is 60 km from Kabul and so control of the Agency is an enticing prospect. (09ISLAMABAD1671,ISLAMABAD 1464 ,KABUL 1733,PESHAWAR 11 ,PESHAWAR 477 ,PESHAWAR 248 )

The most dangerous flash point though is Karachi. With a large Shia population that has become increasingly militant and radical Both PPP and MQM have pandered to the radical sections of the society to instill a siege mentality that would benefit them electorally The govt failure of the setting up of Sunni sectarian militant outfits in the city and not able to stop the large scale murder of clerics on both sides can be understood when this political objective is known.The tit for tat killing have gone unchecked for 6 years.
The sense of siege is utilized for political ends. So opponents of PPP whether CJ,PTI PML N are made some how complicit in the failure of the govt in stopping the killing. (See any interview of Abdi)The other side is not engaged and banned as to marginalize it into radicalization and increasing violence.As this serves the ruling coalistion putpose quite well.


This is just the Religious side . On the secular Shia side as discussed else where is the increasing Shis tilt of PPP one of the countries largest political parties. This can be judged by one of its main blogs Critical PPP run by the activist Abul Nishapuri. Recent rally at Beanzir Shrine where PPP leader Aitazaz used the imagery of Kerbala to pay homage to BB is just a taste of this internal party narrative. He subscribes to the Shia Ascency(Shia Revival) framework developed by the likes of American intellectual Vali Nasr.
Which has been discussed else where in this forum.
 
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M Ali Khan

Minister (2k+ posts)
so essentially the Shia-Sunni divide has perpetuated, faciliated, and strengthened by both Iranian and Saudi interests in the reason, Iran being a bit too ambitious and Saudi being a bit too reactive.
 

zhohaq

Minister (2k+ posts)
so essentially the Shia-Sunni divide has perpetuated, faciliated, and strengthened by both Iranian and Saudi interests in the reason, Iran being a bit too ambitious and Saudi being a bit too reactive.

Yes thats my take in on it.. Unfortunately our nationalism is weak and we fall prey to this ridiculousness.
While for them its just pure geopolitics. My wish is to see Pakistan interfering in their countries for a change one day.

yoo.jpg
 

wadera

Senator (1k+ posts)
so essentially the Shia-Sunni divide has perpetuated, faciliated, and strengthened by both Iranian and Saudi interests in the reason, Iran being a bit too ambitious and Saudi being a bit too reactive.

I don't agree with this.

The main reason is that we Pakistanis love to be divided. Let us not blame anyone else but ourselves for this mess.

If you don't agree with what I just said, please tell me why other parts of the world this doesn't happen. Or how about Ireland where christians were pitted against each other - will you describe that being provoked by Catholic and Protestant countries? I dont think so!

We love to be divided. Don't trust me? Ask your neighbor, or remember your school / college days .. which were the people you hung around with? Were they of your same ethnicity or not? Did you not ridicule others?

For example - calling a Pathan brother an 'akhrot' ..

This is not against M Ali Khan etc its a general comment. Bottomline is please stop blaming others for the problems that we have created for ourselves.
 

romihussain

Councller (250+ posts)
in order to carry out any sort of treatment the doctor has to develop a diagnosis of any illness. you cannot be able to defeat sectarian violence until and unless you're not ready to understand the root causes of that particular issue. one of the main causes of sectarian violence (there's infinite number of reasons behind the sect violence... i'm just discussing the one) is the shia demonstrations taking place during the month of Holy Muharram. I don't understand that if it's your religious obligation to do so then why don't you do it in your places of worship?? Why do you want to shut down the whole city. is it necessary to march across the predominant majority areas of sunnis. if it is .... then there should be no question remain on who's spreading the sectarianism..... if the government restricts every one to worship at their places of worships then this issue could easily be resolved. only a person with violent intentions can deny this.........