Dear all participating members of religion threads.

[abbasiali]

Dear all participating members, I am happy to announce a decision soon will be announced by team to all in general.

Since siasat.pk is a siasat base website, we are not suppose to permit religious thread in our forum ,but on the contrary despite our several reminders our friends stubbornly keep posted religion base threads, which further converts into sectarian debate, which finally leads to either close or delete. Once team did their job in order to keep forum quite and peaceful, our stubborn members start humiliating team for bias behavior, etc etc....recently one of our member started a thread on same basis, which actually challenge the team to respond their allegations or accept them self as being controversial Moderators. How ever it was a great challenge, which actually lead team toward a great session of "brain storm" This session was very fruitful for team because it made team to think how we can keep a standard of equality without making feel a single member annoyed, I believe no could believe that we could come to a conclusion, which could deliver a positive result.

It is really exiting to keep all Pakistanis under one flag of Pakistan without spreading any sectarian violence, do you all need to know how,

For that you all have to wait for "TEAM" thread in this regard, which will include all rules and regulation......

Initially I am advising you, all Islamic thread will be closed with immediate effect till we will bring out the new guidelines in this regard.

We once again thank to all of our members for their positive contribution to forum.

 

[babadeena]

This is upto moderators to decide or frame the rules n regulations, the basic question remains:

a) Will a section of the forum be dedicated exclusively for Islamic Discussion;
b) If "NO", then that is the end of everything;
c) If "Yes", then everyone will definitely portray his/her sect, directly or indirectly;
d) If it will solve the problem or contribute to anything to keep the people mouth closed;
e) or if it will be that let them express;
Good luck to Moderators for their decision, and until then.

 

[abbasiali]

This is upto moderators to decide or frame the rules n regulations, the basic question remains:

a) Will a section of the forum be dedicated exclusively for Islamic Discussion;
b) If "NO", then that is the end of everything;
c) If "Yes", then everyone will definitely portray his/her sect, directly or indirectly;
d) If it will solve the problem or contribute to anything to keep the people mouth closed;
e) or if it will be that let them express;
Good luck to Moderators for their decision, and until then.

Brother Babadeena,

Thanks for your feed back,

For sure Islamic discussion will remain more exclusive and empowered,

So it is yes. both options of direct/indirect will be available at posters own discretion.

We don't want to shut anyone's mouth but on the other end control of respect will be in hands of thread owner.

This is going to be open right of speech to every one.

Friends actually brother Babadeena's reply have given me another thought, Now before team will come out with final extract, why don't you all pour your suggestions and feed back and let see how close we will end up with our members....Good Luck

 

[Salik]

First of all... It was nice to see you after some time Abbasi Bhai...

Well... I am looking forward to the "TEAM" decision....

But the harder we try to draw lines between the religion and siasat.... the impossible it seems....

How can we separate the issues like Salman Taseer's murder from its religious roots and from the roots in politics?

ویسے بھی

..جدا ہو دین سیاست سے تو رہ جاتی ہے چنگیزی۔۔۔۔۔

 

[Salik]

i can debate my wahabi brothers but shia shoud be kicked out if religious duscussions they are a fitna and a jewish creation

Mutual respect.... is something we need to learn...

By the way... if somebody really wants to do something for the deen... they should follow the best example... That is Aqa Huzoor pbuh ... and He pbuh never participated in a debate.... He was a preacher...

 

[cefspan]

I have an advice , instead of Banning religious threads , kindly make a new section e.g Islamic videos .
People here are debating on islamic point of views , it spreads awareness , a platform for people belonging to various sects to share their views , I am of the opinion that a muslim whether Wahhabi , shia , suni is a muslim .All share equal rights .PLEASE DONOT BAN Islamic Religious threads .Its my request.

 

[babadeena]

i can debate my wahabi brothers but shia shoud be kicked out if religious duscussions
they are a fitna and a jewish creation

Abassi Bhai, thanks:

a) There should be no exclusion of any one be it any sect, group, firqa, we should and must develop
an "attitude to accommodate" rather to "exclude".
b) Under no circumstances, no one should be allowed to downgrade any one humanly,
No foul language direct or indirect, no personal attacks;

c) If someone says that for example it is in Quran, then he/she must produce the relevant
verse.

 

[abbasiali]

First of all... It was nice to see you after some time Abbasi Bhai...

Well... I am looking forward to the "TEAM" decision....

But the harder we try to draw lines between the religion and siasat.... the impossible it seems....

How can we separate the issues like Salman Taseer's murder from its religious roots and from the roots in politics?

ویسے بھی

..جدا ہو دین سیاست سے تو رہ جاتی ہے چنگیزی۔۔۔۔۔

Thanks a lot brother Salik, I am sure we all believe, when there is a will, there is a way........Definitely, we have to draw lines...and have to set limits, Respect is one of the most important factor, I am personal very thankful to you support to team and your personal confidence on me.

Regards.

 

[cefspan]

Make a new section like Islamic Discussion , no foul language , make reference must .

 

[abbasiali]

i can debate my wahabi brothers but shia shoud be kicked out if religious duscussions they are a fitna and a jewish creation

You will be able to debate to every one, this will be your discretion how you will behave to thread owner being poster.

 

[abbasiali]

Abassi Bhai, thanks:

a) There should be no exclusion of any one be it any sect, group, firqa, we should and must develop
an "attitude to accommodate" rather to "exclude".
b) Under no circumstances, no one should be allowed to downgrade any one humanly,
No foul language direct or indirect, no personal attacks;

c) If someone says that for example it is in Quran, then he/she must produce the relevant
verse.

Insha Allah no one in exclusion list, however one reservation is there, but I am hopeful, with this ongoing discussion, we will find out the solution....Insha Allah...

 

[Salik]

Thanks a lot brother Salik, I am sure we all believe, when there is a will, there is a way........Definitely, we have to draw lines...and have to set limits, Respect is one of the most important factor, I am personal very thankful to you support to team and your personal confidence on me.

Regards.

You are most welcome....

 

[Pakistani1947]

It is really exiting to keep all Pakistanis under one flag of Pakistan without spreading any sectarian violence, do you all need to know how,

Dear Abbasi Ali,

About 97 percent of all Pakistanis are Muslims. Official documentation states that Sunni Muslims constitute 77 percent of the population and that adherents of Shia Islam make up an additional 20 percent. Christians, Hindus, and members of other religions each account for about 1 percent of the population.

If you wish to keep all Pakistanis under one flag then we need to educate them to come under one umbrella of Quraan and Sunnah (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم).

"Why Muslims are so much divided" the answer is ...

... Because of Shirk, innovations and leaving the Sunnah (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم)

Without doubt one of the major causes for people splitting up the religion and leaving holding on to the rope of Allah is shirk. This is the grave sin of ascribing partners with Allah in worship.

Another major reason for disunity is the wide range of beliefs prevalent amongst the Muslims. Despite us having the same Qur'an and the same Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم), Muslims still have different beliefs. Why is this? If we all are referring back to the Qur'an and the Sunnah in every matter then why the differences. Allah says:

" (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم), if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination." [Surah an-Nisaa 4:59]

Another cause for disunity and not holding fast to the rope of Allah is the occurrence of innovations in this Ummah.

Allah has informed us in the Qur'an that He has completed this religion of Islam for us as He says:
" This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion." [Surah al-Maa'idah, 5:3]

" Whoever Innovates in this affair of ours that which is not from it will have it rejected." [Muslim]
Having looked at the reason why we are so divided, the question now arises as to what the means for reviving this Ummah are. Allah has given us the means for the revival of this Ummah, when He says:

" Verily! Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is within themselves." [Surah ar-Ra'd 13:11]

The Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) also said:
" When you involve yourselves in interest bearing business transactions, and you hold on to the tails of cows, and you are pleased with agriculture (i.e. the land) and you abandon making Jihad in the Cause of Allah, Allah will send humiliation down upon you. He will not remove it from you until you return back to your Religion." [Abu Dawood and al-Bayhaqee]

So this humiliation that Muslims are under will not be removed from us until we return back to the religion of Islam. So what is the religion of Islam if not Tawheed, having the correct Aqeedah, worshipping Allah correctly? So should we not start our revival with these issues.

We know from the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) that the way towards realizing this revival is only one way, and it is the way which Allah has mentioned in His saying:

" And verily, this is My Straight Path, so follow it, and follow not (other) paths, for they will separate you away from His Path." [Surah al-An'aam 6:153]

The only way to revive the Ummah is to return every affair of the Muslim back to the Qur'an and the Sunnah as understood and implemented by the best generation, the Companions (رَّضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمْ). To believe as they believed, to worship as they worshipped, to look like them, to give da'wah in the way they gave it. Then only will we be united and have a true Islaamic revival.

Jizakallah

 

[Pakistani1947]

If it is decided to keep the Islamic corner open then I would request the moderators to restrict the member to quoting Quraan and Authentic Hadeeths only.

The reason is that first of all it is basically a Siasi forum. Secondly, the moderators are not Aalim to judge whether somebody is posting an unauthentic or fabricated Hadeeth. Hence by allowing anything to quote from which ever source will do more harm than good. As per Qurran and authentic Hadeeths:

1. Allaah says: "And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allaah (i.e., this Qur'an), and be not divided among yourselves." Surah Aali-`Imraan [3:103]

2. And He says: "And do not be among the polytheists. Of those who split up their religion and became sects, each sect rejoicing in that which is with it." Surat-ur-Room [30:31-32]

3. "And if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it back to Allaah and His Messenger (pbuh), if you believe in Allaah and in the Last Day. That is more suitable for final determination." Surat-un-Nisaa' [4:59].

refer it back to Allah = Quraan
His Messenger = Sunnah pbuh (Hadeeths)

4. And He also says: "But no, by your Lord, they can have no Eemaan (Faith), until they make you (O Muhammad) a judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission." Surat-un-Nisaa' [4:65].

5. "O you who believe! Do not be forward in the presence of Allaah and His Messenger and fear Allaah. Verily, Allaah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing." Surat-ul-Hujuraat [49:1].

6. The Messenger of Allaah said: "I counsel you to have Taqwaa of Allaah and to hear and obey, even if an Abyssinian slave were to command you. For, verily, whoever amongst you lives (to grown old), he will see many differences. So stick to my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the rightly guided khaleefahs. Cling tightly onto it and hold onto it with your molar teeth. And beware of newly invented matters. For, indeed, every newly invented matter is an innovation, and every innovation is a thing that leads astray, and everything that leads astray is in the Hellfire." (An authentic hadeeth reported by Abu Dawood and others.)

7. Ibn Mas'ood said: "The Messenger of Allaah drew a line for us and then said: 'This is the Straight Path of Allaah.' And he drew lines on the left and right of it, and then said: 'These are paths of which there is not one except that there is a devil upon it calling towards it.' Then he recited the statements of Allaah (Surat-ul-Ana'aam [3:153]): 'And verily, this is My Straight Path, so follow it, and do not follow (other) paths for they will separate you away from His path." (An authentic hadeeth recorded by Ahmad and An-Nasaa'ee.)

I would again request moderators to make the first rule for Islamic post that nobody shall quote anything outside Qur'aan and Sihah Sitta Books.

The Six Authentic Hadeeth Books (Sihah Sitta) are:

- Sahih al-Bukhari
- Sahih Muslim
- Sunan an-Nasa'i al-Sughra
- Sunan Abu Dawood
- Sunan al-Tirmidhi
- Sunan ibn Majah

 

[babadeena]

Insha Allah no one in exclusion list, however one reservation is there, but I am hopeful, with this ongoing discussion, we will find out the solution....Insha Allah...

If u wish to share with the participants, perhaps some one may have solution for that
also?

 

[cefspan]

If it is decided to keep the Islamic corner open then I would request the moderators to restrict the member to quoting Quraan and Authentic Hadeeths only.

The reason is that first of all it is basically a Siasi forum. Secondly, the moderators are not Aalim to judge whether somebody is posting an unauthentic or fabricated Hadeeth. Hence by allowing anything to quote from which ever source will do more harm than good. As per Qurran and authentic Hadeeths:

1. Allaah says: "And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allaah (i.e., this Qur'an), and be not divided among yourselves." Surah Aali-`Imraan [3:103]

2. And He says: "And do not be among the polytheists. Of those who split up their religion and became sects, each sect rejoicing in that which is with it." Surat-ur-Room [30:31-32]

3. "And if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it back to Allaah and His Messenger (pbuh), if you believe in Allaah and in the Last Day. That is more suitable for final determination." Surat-un-Nisaa' [4:59].

refer it back to Allah = Quraan
His Messenger = Sunnah pbuh (Hadeeths)

4. And He also says: "But no, by your Lord, they can have no Eemaan (Faith), until they make you (O Muhammad) a judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission." Surat-un-Nisaa' [4:65].

5. "O you who believe! Do not be forward in the presence of Allaah and His Messenger and fear Allaah. Verily, Allaah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing." Surat-ul-Hujuraat [49:1].

6. The Messenger of Allaah said: "I counsel you to have Taqwaa of Allaah and to hear and obey, even if an Abyssinian slave were to command you. For, verily, whoever amongst you lives (to grown old), he will see many differences. So stick to my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the rightly guided khaleefahs. Cling tightly onto it and hold onto it with your molar teeth. And beware of newly invented matters. For, indeed, every newly invented matter is an innovation, and every innovation is a thing that leads astray, and everything that leads astray is in the Hellfire." (An authentic hadeeth reported by Abu Dawood and others.)

7. Ibn Mas'ood said: "The Messenger of Allaah drew a line for us and then said: 'This is the Straight Path of Allaah.' And he drew lines on the left and right of it, and then said: 'These are paths of which there is not one except that there is a devil upon it calling towards it.' Then he recited the statements of Allaah (Surat-ul-Ana'aam [3:153]): 'And verily, this is My Straight Path, so follow it, and do not follow (other) paths for they will separate you away from His path." (An authentic hadeeth recorded by Ahmad and An-Nasaa'ee.)

I would again request moderators to make the first rule for Islamic post that nobody shall quote anything outside Qur'aan and Sihah Sitta Books.

The Six Authentic Hadeeth Books (Sihah Sitta) are:

- Sahih al-Bukhari
- Sahih Muslim
- Sunan an-Nasa'i al-Sughra
- Sunan Abu Dawood
- Sunan al-Tirmidhi
- Sunan ibn Majah

I personally think that u r the one who doesnot accept any reference from any one .
Haven't Cheeko given u enough authentic references?

I would like the moderators to also warn those debates who doesn't accept others references.

 

[abbasiali]

Brother Pakistan1947

With due all respect, at this moment, please make your points brief and short in order to come to a respectful acceptable solution to all members.

Regards.

 

[babadeena]

I would again request moderators to make the first rule for Islamic post that nobody shall quote anything outside Qur'aan and Sihah Sitta Books.

Brother, No one can control that. But the Respondent should have confidence and
knowledge to counter that, of course in a decent and convincing manner.

 

[famamdani]

about this problem I give only example......................jab ek insaan ghar banata he ..........to is ko puri tarah apni zaroorat ke hisab se sajata he ...............or koshish karta he ke zaroorat or pasand ki har cheez is me sama jai................isi siasat.pk bhi hamare liye ek ghar ki hesiat rakhti he.............or is me se relegion ke section ko cut off karna aise hi he jaise jhoomer to bara shandar laga lain ..................lekin bijli nidarad..............................or without electric lighting ho sakti he.......................never

 

[babadeena]

Further little bit more views, if modes decided to keep the Islamic Section Open:

a) The section may be divided into three sections:
i) Discussion with reference to Quran only.
ii) Discussion with reference to Hadiths only;
iii) Discussion with reference to Quran & Hadith
b) There should be no discrimination of any sect, group, firqas, whosoever it may be.
This is sovereign right of everyone to express;
c) No vilification, defamation, personal attacks, ID attacks, etc.
d) Attention special to words "Kafir, Mushrik, Munafiq", let us accept the reality that
people will use such words, these should not be taken as the infringement of rules.

Just suggestions, final decision is yours dear Modes.