contra: Marriage Law in Pakistan
- Thread starter contra
- Start date
It is not a "blank and Open Licence", it is with certain conditions, very rigid ones.
Now you are not talking or referring to Islam, rather a Family Act of 1961 or the prevalent practice, which is not even nearer to Islam.
Yes, human made laws, need to be adjusted with the changing realities and in a democratic way of government it should be done. Marriage Law 1961 should and must be amended to bring to the nearest possible as per Quranic Guidelines, I support your point.
If you need see a elaborated discussion on this topic please click:
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=18188&p=79778#p79778
In our marriage law if amended, should contain the following:
--- Man and Woman should and must declare that they are not "Mushraykeen"
--- The authorities should ensure that "Man" is financially sound;
---- All expenses of marriage should be the responsibility of "Man"
---- An unequivocal declaration should be on the part of the woman that, she is
accepting this marriage with her free will/consent, without any fear, coercion, force and whatosoever pressure from others.
@Contra
Please give a name or reference of that book, which at a time when the "so-called civilized world" was not even aware of the word of "civilization", gave ladies the rights who no one could have imagined. Will you please?
gazoomartian
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
GeoG said:
Actually brother, these three women are for real. they are in the process but no final divorce yet. Their husbands are no longer living with them obviously. But I was just joking, cant afford them all three. Heck, cant afford even the one I have got [funnny]
Leave the Indian(s) alone. they are attention whores
geog, just between you and me, shhhhhhhhhh not a word to any one
When my lady looks at my pic dating back to 1974, taken for Pak Id purposes, she says:
Then, girls were chasing you, and now you are chasing girls [hilar] [hilar]
My hat off for that lady, her level of tolerance speaks for itself. I wonder Niagara Falls did not dry yet!!!!
U r representing Pakistan or a Pakistani point of view on an international board and the subject is "Marriage Law in Pakistan". Falta de vergoinha, como se dise!!!
foqia khan
MPA (400+ posts)
though the law needs amendment but this programme is not conducted properly.
1. no "Muslim" Scholar of Islam was invited in this programme.
2. the explaination on behalf of Islam given by the lady doesn't represent the views of all muslims. which is not right thing .
3. In battle of Uhad both widows n orphan girls were left,then y relate this Ayat only with orphan girls n if it is only related with orphan girls to be marry with ,then can it also be said that the condition for the one marriage is also orphan ,according to this Ayat. (Muslim scholar was needed here).
4. not clear, are they criticising that the interpretation of the Ayat is misunderstood or criticing Law for not being able to protect rights of each wife.
5. point which is not discussed that y can't the person can be charged on base of decisiveness with the proof of the marriage paper in which he mentioned his martial status at the time of his new marriage.
The Quran is the only religious scripture in the world that says,"marry only one".
And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice."[Al-Quran 4:3]
Before the Quran was revealed, there was no upper limit for polygyny and many men had scores of wives, some even hundreds. Islam put an upper limit of four wives. Islam gives a man permission to marry two, three or four women, only on the condition that he deals justly with them.
In the same chapter i.e. Surah Nisa verse 129 says:
"Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women...." [Al-Quran 4:129]
Therefore polygyny is not a rule but an exception. Many people are under the misconception that it is compulsory for a Muslim man to have more than one wife.
The Quran is the only religious book, on the face of this earth, that contains the phrase marry only one. There is no other religious book that instructs men to have only one wife. In none of the other religious scriptures, whether it be the Vedas, the Ramayan, the Mahabharat, the Geeta, the Talmud or the Bible does one find a restriction on the number of wives. According to these scriptures one can marry as many as one wishes. It was only later, that the Hindu priests and the Christian Church restricted the number of wives to one.
Many Hindu religious personalities, according to their scriptures, had multiple wives. King Dashrat, the father of Rama, had more than one wife. Krishna had several wives.
In earlier times, Christian men were permitted as many wives as they wished, since the Bible puts no restriction on the number of wives. It was only a few centuries ago that the Church restricted the number of wives to one.
Polygyny is permitted in Judaism. According to Talmudic law, Abraham had three wives, and Solomon had hundreds of wives. The practice of polygyny continued till Rabbi Gershom ben Yehudah (95% C.E to 1030 C.E) issued an edict against it. The Jewish Sephardic communities living in Muslim countries continued the practice till as late as 1950, until an Act of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel extended the ban on marrying more than one wife.
Hindus are more polygynous than Muslims
The report of the Committee of The Status of Woman in Islam, published in 1975 mentions on page numbers 66 and 67 that the percentage of polygamous marriages between the years 1951 and 1961 was 5.06% among the Hindus and only 4.31% among the Muslims. According to Indian law only Muslim men are permitted to have more than one wife. It is illegal for any non-Muslim in India to have more than one wife. Despite it being illegal, Hindus have more multiple wives as compared to Muslims. Earlier, there was no restriction even on Hindu men with respect to the number of wives allowed. It was only in 1954, when the Hindu Marriage Act was passed that it became illegal for a Hindu to have more than one wife. At present it is the Indian Law that restricts a Hindu man from having more than one wife and not the Hindu scriptures.
Islam is the religion which not only provides solutions for the current issues but also ,always focused on future too. Allowing man for more then one and limits him for four is not meant to provide him physical plesure but is to secure the rights n to protect the family system, which is the important unit of society,countries where there is a ristricton of one marriage has much more divorce n illegal relations rate,which result in illegal n broken family generations. whereas in Islam, allowing but not making it compulsary ,prevent illegal relations in the society and also provide n secure the rights n respect of the woman and especially of the new generations.[/b]
1. no "Muslim" Scholar of Islam was invited in this programme.
2. the explaination on behalf of Islam given by the lady doesn't represent the views of all muslims. which is not right thing .
3. In battle of Uhad both widows n orphan girls were left,then y relate this Ayat only with orphan girls n if it is only related with orphan girls to be marry with ,then can it also be said that the condition for the one marriage is also orphan ,according to this Ayat. (Muslim scholar was needed here).
4. not clear, are they criticising that the interpretation of the Ayat is misunderstood or criticing Law for not being able to protect rights of each wife.
5. point which is not discussed that y can't the person can be charged on base of decisiveness with the proof of the marriage paper in which he mentioned his martial status at the time of his new marriage.
contra said:
The Quran is the only religious scripture in the world that says,"marry only one".
And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice."[Al-Quran 4:3]
Before the Quran was revealed, there was no upper limit for polygyny and many men had scores of wives, some even hundreds. Islam put an upper limit of four wives. Islam gives a man permission to marry two, three or four women, only on the condition that he deals justly with them.
In the same chapter i.e. Surah Nisa verse 129 says:
"Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women...." [Al-Quran 4:129]
Therefore polygyny is not a rule but an exception. Many people are under the misconception that it is compulsory for a Muslim man to have more than one wife.
The Quran is the only religious book, on the face of this earth, that contains the phrase marry only one. There is no other religious book that instructs men to have only one wife. In none of the other religious scriptures, whether it be the Vedas, the Ramayan, the Mahabharat, the Geeta, the Talmud or the Bible does one find a restriction on the number of wives. According to these scriptures one can marry as many as one wishes. It was only later, that the Hindu priests and the Christian Church restricted the number of wives to one.
Many Hindu religious personalities, according to their scriptures, had multiple wives. King Dashrat, the father of Rama, had more than one wife. Krishna had several wives.
In earlier times, Christian men were permitted as many wives as they wished, since the Bible puts no restriction on the number of wives. It was only a few centuries ago that the Church restricted the number of wives to one.
Polygyny is permitted in Judaism. According to Talmudic law, Abraham had three wives, and Solomon had hundreds of wives. The practice of polygyny continued till Rabbi Gershom ben Yehudah (95% C.E to 1030 C.E) issued an edict against it. The Jewish Sephardic communities living in Muslim countries continued the practice till as late as 1950, until an Act of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel extended the ban on marrying more than one wife.
Hindus are more polygynous than Muslims
The report of the Committee of The Status of Woman in Islam, published in 1975 mentions on page numbers 66 and 67 that the percentage of polygamous marriages between the years 1951 and 1961 was 5.06% among the Hindus and only 4.31% among the Muslims. According to Indian law only Muslim men are permitted to have more than one wife. It is illegal for any non-Muslim in India to have more than one wife. Despite it being illegal, Hindus have more multiple wives as compared to Muslims. Earlier, there was no restriction even on Hindu men with respect to the number of wives allowed. It was only in 1954, when the Hindu Marriage Act was passed that it became illegal for a Hindu to have more than one wife. At present it is the Indian Law that restricts a Hindu man from having more than one wife and not the Hindu scriptures.
Islam is the religion which not only provides solutions for the current issues but also ,always focused on future too. Allowing man for more then one and limits him for four is not meant to provide him physical plesure but is to secure the rights n to protect the family system, which is the important unit of society,countries where there is a ristricton of one marriage has much more divorce n illegal relations rate,which result in illegal n broken family generations. whereas in Islam, allowing but not making it compulsary ,prevent illegal relations in the society and also provide n secure the rights n respect of the woman and especially of the new generations.[/b]
which one is it?
Please read the preceding and following verses in sequence and in contextual form.
[/quote:u60oex2b]
This is not the proper way to project a verse from Quran. You please have to quote it and quote it in full or put some dots before the word "Mary". Here is full verse:
3. And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who
seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to
so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is
more likely that ye will not do injustice.
?????? ???????? ?????? ??????????? ??? ??????????? ??????????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ?????????? ??????? ????????? ????????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ??????????? ??????????? ???? ??? ???????? ????????????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??????????
For love of God, you all Muslims, why you miss or intentionally omit the arabic word
"FA"(THEN), while translating or projecting this verse.
gazoomartian
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Please read the preceding and following verses in sequence and in contextual form.babadeena said:
[/quote:2kkggvv6]
This is not the proper way to project a verse from Quran. You please have to quote it and quote it in full or put some dots before the word "Mary". Here is full verse:
3. And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who
seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to
so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is
more likely that ye will not do injustice.
?????? ???????? ?????? ??????????? ??? ??????????? ??????????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ?????????? ??????? ????????? ????????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ??????????? ??????????? ???? ??? ???????? ????????????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??????????
For love of God, you all Muslims, why you miss or intentionally omit the arabic word
"FA"(THEN), while translating or projecting this verse.[/quote:2kkggvv6]
the above ayah relates only to a situation where, due to war or poverty, there orphans, widows, who can not find a rakhwala, then you marry them if you can keep justice between them.
the ayah that fauqia quoted is good for other situations where a man is need for more than one wife, either because of his advanced sexual desire, or his wife is ill and he needs to have a lady to care of the children and household, then you can have UPTO four wives.
These are two different situations and both are valid. But however, in your pervezi mazhab it may be different. I dont know. But I do know that there more than one surah/ayah in the Book, dont promote just one ayah that suits your own views.
foqia khan
MPA (400+ posts)
Please read the preceding and following verses in sequence and in contextual form.babadeena said:
[/quote:2o01daqn]
This is not the proper way to project a verse from Quran. You please have to quote it and quote it in full or put some dots before the word "Mary". Here is full verse:
3. And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who
seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to
so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is
more likely that ye will not do injustice.
?????? ???????? ?????? ??????????? ??? ??????????? ??????????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ?????????? ??????? ????????? ????????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ??????????? ??????????? ???? ??? ???????? ????????????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??????????
For love of God, you all Muslims, why you miss or intentionally omit the arabic word
"FA"(THEN), while translating or projecting this verse.[/quote:2o01daqn]
Thanks for correcting me ,sect was not the right word which I used !
@GAZOOMARTIAN
You should and must not jump in the thread if you did not have any knowledge of Quran and I am sure that you are total ignorant of what you are talking about. In whole of Quran, this is the only verse which specifically talks about polygomy (number of wives). Sister Foqia pasted the same verse, but in half, which I pasted in full. You, better now produce another one from Quran, either then YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING. Ignorance of high degree and chal paray baraymian Quran ko discuss karnay.
gazoomartian
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
babadeena said:
YES I do not know naything, but you know everything maulana muft babadeena madzill-hu-lali :roll:
you are just looking for recognitions thats all. To get that you must be good and eductaed, which is lacking deeply on your part.
I hereby title you today: Maulana Hujjati
you should get some education...... case closed. no more talking to pervezis
GeoG
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Gazoo Bhai,
With all the due respect to yourself, very humbly and respectfully I have to second Brother Babadeena on this issue.
One can reliably judge one's grasp on subject from one's writings and it is very sad but a fact that our knowlege of Quran is limited to a few Suras we learnt many years ago and then occasional reading in Arabic with no translation.
We don't have to respond on each and every thread, we can leave a few and personally due to my limitation of knowledge, I do not comment or get into an argument because I know my short comings.
I am humbly going to request to please lets enjoy social subjects and tussle with our foes but leave these Quranic reference threads.
I am sure Brothers Babadeena, Suchbolo, Taul, Patriot, Abduttawab and many others learned brothers with authentic knowlege of our Holy Book read threads with all our Bak Bak but never comment, let us reciprocate.
Hope you will understand and no hard feelings, it is only a request.
With all the due respect to yourself, very humbly and respectfully I have to second Brother Babadeena on this issue.
One can reliably judge one's grasp on subject from one's writings and it is very sad but a fact that our knowlege of Quran is limited to a few Suras we learnt many years ago and then occasional reading in Arabic with no translation.
We don't have to respond on each and every thread, we can leave a few and personally due to my limitation of knowledge, I do not comment or get into an argument because I know my short comings.
I am humbly going to request to please lets enjoy social subjects and tussle with our foes but leave these Quranic reference threads.
I am sure Brothers Babadeena, Suchbolo, Taul, Patriot, Abduttawab and many others learned brothers with authentic knowlege of our Holy Book read threads with all our Bak Bak but never comment, let us reciprocate.
Hope you will understand and no hard feelings, it is only a request.
A
abbasiali
Guest
I agree with you GeoG, Add Foqia Khan in your list as well, her authentic contribution is highly appreciated.GeoG said:
gazoomartian
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
abbasiali said:
I already comitted not to post to him any more. But you should also tell him not to contniue attacking me. Or do you two not see his comments. I suppose it always has to be favored.... good day
I never claimed that I know everything.There is always room for learning and understanding and I am just a student of Quran. But I bet you that one third of your total life's time I have on this book. But I do not interfere in a thread which I do not have any knowledge. U r pasting many threads about ZH, but you may not believe as usual, I do not know anything about that man, so I do not interfere, until I will get some information or read about him. This is just an example.
Recognition for what. Never even occurred to my mind. My Allah has bestowed me much more than I deserved. Millions of thanks to Him. I am not that type of person to love to be a "recognized". you better rest assured.
As I told you "recognition" is not mine objective at all. If I have some kind of deficiency and as a human I do, I recognize that also. And no one is perfect in this world except the only ONE.
No. Please do not push me to that limit. Because this is a Pakistani board and I have lot of respect for that. Please do not force me that I may pay you in same coins at each and every thread.
No feelers. I know from which frequency u r coming. So No feelers. Education is a relative term, be my guest on any topic, ranging from Computer Sciences, International Relations, Politics, Religion, Music, choice is yours, I shall, inshallah, get u to the content of your heart. Let us decide right here on the board, the level of education!!!!!!!!!!!!. Show me any post of mine, where I have started attacking you, Believe me I have still not used my right of reply to you, due to Brothers like Abbasiali and GeoG!!!
Live4Pakistan
Citizen
Two Different Possible Translation....Make Your Own Decision...NOT A ROCKET SCIENCE
http://www.dar-us-salam.com/TheNobleQuran/surah4.html
Surah An-Nisa' (The Women)
2. And give unto orphans their property and do not exchange (your) bad things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by adding it) to your substance. Surely, this is a great sin.
3. And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan?girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice.
4. And give to the women (whom you marry) their Mahr (obligatory bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) with a good heart, but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, take it, and enjoy it without fear of any harm (as Allah has made it lawful).
**********************************************************************************************************
http://www.guidedways.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=4&translator=2&mac=
Surah An-Nisa' (The Women)
2. To orphans restore their property (when they reach their age), nor substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin.
3. If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or that which your right hands possess. That will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
4. And give the women (on marriage) their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, take it and enjoy it with right good cheer.
I Will Suggest First study by yourself and Then Consult ISLAMIC SCHOLAR....
Marry More than one if you have to do justice in the brought up of Orphans...Not the Orphan Women.....Marry only one if you fear that you can not do justice more than one women...
Their (Video Anchor and Guests) Condition about Marrying more than One woman....is that other must be Orphan...Is Not Justified according 2 Quran....And I think there must be an ISLAMIC Scholar to Debate on this Issue....Not the Lawyers....
Correct Me...May ALLAH forgive Me....and Guide Me...
Why the word "with" has been used for an arabic word "Fee".
It is very good approach, but just one suggestion. Keep with you available as much translations of different translators as possible, then go word by word in arabic text and translated text. Things will become pretty clear, how people have twisted the things.
From where you took the words "brought up", ????????? they are not in Arabic Text.
Some Very important points about this verse:
---- Some people like it or not, they may mention it or hide it, but FACT IS, that "element of Orphans" is the first conditional clause in the verse.
--- The Arabic words "FA (Then)" have been used in two places in the verse. Any person of any language knows it very well, that "this word (Then)" when used in a sentence restricts the sequence with preceding and succeeding text.
--- The verse starts with the Arabic word "waoo(And)", it implies that the subject matter is connected with the previous text.
---- Specially attention to the beginning "wa in khiftum ???? ???????? " and in the middle
?????? ???????? "fa in khiftum". The first one fear is "If you fear", the second one is "Then if You fear".
Inshalla, I can go further to elaborate on more words in the verse, but let someone with Quranic Knowledge may come forward so that discussion may be constructive and fruitful.
Quran is very easy to learn, what it requires is "intention, persistence, and hard work", unfortunately when it comes to Quran we do not bother, but when it is any other book how much difficult it may be, but our career depends on it, we parrot it in best way and wishes to get A plus.
I will suggest to each one to please refer "Islam" as "DEEN" not religion. Islam as explained in QURAN is the perfect way of living to the whole mankind and provide solution to all the past, present and future issues.
QURAN is a simple and logical, but we need to qualify ourselves to get direction for it.
The qualification is described in the beginning of Quran, I.E. in Surey Al-Baqar. it is a book from Allah and only the MUTTAQEEN who believes on Un-seen can get benefit from it.
ALLAH give us strength to qualify to get direction from QURAN in order to resolve all the issues (AMEEN).
QURAN is a simple and logical, but we need to qualify ourselves to get direction for it.
The qualification is described in the beginning of Quran, I.E. in Surey Al-Baqar. it is a book from Allah and only the MUTTAQEEN who believes on Un-seen can get benefit from it.
ALLAH give us strength to qualify to get direction from QURAN in order to resolve all the issues (AMEEN).
