contra: Charles Darwin's - Evolution

taul

Siasat.pk - Blogger
contra said:
I have one question for you all:

You all must have heard of the 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami. This left about 200,000 people dead.
My question is, why didn't your God prevent this from happening?



--Death is an Irrefutable and an Eventual fate of all living beings.Just as life is given by Allah ( SWT) death too is only given by Allah (SWT),The All-Knowing the Only Attribute of Allah (SWT) knows how and when the life shall be taken.Some die playing sports,some in disasters,some while praying, while some meeting their demise of other means but all is Known and given by Allah (SWT)..The Creator gives the life and also takes the life back. :)

As stated in The Holy Qur'an:

29:57 "Every soul shall have a taste of death in the end to Us shall ye be brought back"


--Just as we did not have a say while coming to this world,the same applies while departing it.Death can not be prevented and for all there's a set course through which that person will go to meet up that destination,for some health becomes an excuse and for some natural disasters are the door.
 

Bret Hawk

Senator (1k+ posts)
Actually the concept of atheism seems to me very interesting and somewhat appealing to those minds who some way or the another cant comprehend the existence of a Supreme Being in the world of colour and motion with the perfect abilities of reformation and reproduction. But if we consider it for a while the Ultimate Reality of this entire world of motion and colour then our minds (Atheist minds in particular) tends to roam in the realms of confusion and free speculation. To some this whole world is nothing but a constant struggling from the state of potentiality to its eventual actuality. As for a person to become a perfect individual, he has to toil hard in the spheres of ethics, good principles and good conduct. Thats what Dr Iqbal terms as Mard E Maumin (The perfect believer) or Super Man in the colloquial of legendary German Philosopher F.W. Nietzsche and so foth in the works of other gigantic intellectuals.

If we closely scrutinize this concept of becoming a perfect individual or being then I think this concept is existent in almost all the religions or belief systems of the world whether they believe in the concepts of organized faiths or not. I can quote an example here that the concept of Moksha in Hinduism where the individual can attain the state of a free soul from the trials of rebirths, incarnation and other tribulations of the finite world. One can simply ask what the origin of this centuries old thought processes is. Is it simply the conscious choice of those individuals or they tends to pick that concept unconsciously? Because when I view the central figures and the central cohesive system of thought of all the major faiths and belief systems (Including non religious and Philosophical systems) then it becomes evident to me that the choice to attain the heights of individuality whether its a conscious or subconscious choice of those systems and individuals, comes down to this central premise of cosmological and philosophical concept that whence the being is in a state of finite or in-eternity it cant comprehend the Ultimate Reality of the infinite or eternal being.

The same concept is evident from the two great masters of prehistoric era of this world Plato and Aristotle. The same two giants upon whom (And its a consensus among all the social scientists of the world) the whole structure of current worlds social, political, economic and philosophical systems are based. Of course with the passage of time there concepts have been refined and reconstructed with the light of the development of new concepts of reasoning and intriguing by the legendary intellectuals of variant sciences including the natural ones as well. For example Plato (The so called Pagan Theist) uses the term Demiurge for the Almighty God, which means The Divine Artisan. Artisan of who? Let me leave this poignant query for those who can think with the sane and articulate mind. When it come to the second master Aristotle, who again is the biggest prophet of Atheism termed the Almighty God as the perfect Actuality or the First Cause of all the causes of this universe from which the eventual effects originates. So dear self proclaimed atheists of this forum your gigantic gods of atheism itself testifying the existence of God then how come you can go further few steps in front of your lords and have the audacity to say that God does not exists at all? Just think about it if that ability is there in your mortal minds.

Just few words for the misleading and absurd upholders of evolutionists that your Imams / Popes of this theory (Including your arch Pope Darwin) has failed to answer this basic question of the creationists that what was the cause of the first living cell from which the life originates spontaneously through the interfacing forces of nature ? Unless and until you and your deluded Popes of evolutionists become aware of the answer of that basic but very important question (Of course with sensibility and lucidity and in clear terms of logic) then Ill declare here on this forum Ill be the first person who will forsake Islam and join your ranks. But if you fail to provide any convincing answer to that question then either you have to stop posting these absurd links of evolution and atheism on this thread unconditionally. Just make a deal with me.

Last but not least my reply to Mr Shri Nepali Pandit on the issue of the infallibility and divine nature of Holy Quran (I cant make a similar stand for other Holy scriptures here as to some of them great corruption and alteration has been occurred since the day they were revealed to their nominated group of people) and Ill use the words of the same Holy Quran here that If you have any doubt about the veracity and authenticity of this Quran then go and create the like of this as a whole or its one of the chapter which consists of mere three limited lines of sentences. And call all of your helpers and associates to whom you call and rely in your daily lives among the learned men and Jinn (Supernatural forces as well|) apart from Him The Master of all universe Allah. And if you cant produce the like of it and surely is you definitely would not be able to do that then behold He is the master of the Day of Judgment and no infidel would be able to escape from His painful and agonizing punishment at that eventful day. If youre man enough Mr Nepali Pandit then accept this 14 centuries old challenge of my Lord and lets see how truthful you are in your assertion that all the sacred books of world religions are just merely the figment of the minds of few individuals. Not in Holy Qurans case buddy I can bet my whole existence on it.





Bret Hawk
 
A

abbasiali

Guest
A very impressive thread, replies are so logical, I can feel the healthy outcome of this thread, I have revised lot of things and gain some knowledge as well.

This is what our motive is, to bring a healthy knowledgeable forum, which could bring from individuals to friendship and then a great team.

Regards.
 
C

commander

Guest
There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; and he who rejects false deities and believes in Allah (The God) has grasped a firm handhold which will never break. And Allah is ALL-Hearing, All-Knowing (256)
Allah is the Protecting Guardian of those who believe. He brings them out of the darkness into the light; as for those who disbelieve, their guardians are false deities. They bring them out of light into darkness... (257)" AL-QUR'AAN (CHAPTER # 2, VERSES # 256-257)


Conversation between atheist professor and a student

WHY SCIENCE FAILS TO EXPLAIN GOD?
At an educational institution: Professing to be wise, they became fools

"LET ME EXPLAIN THE problem science has with God."

The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Student, aren't you, son?"
"Yes, sir."

"So you believe in God?"
"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"
"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"
"Yes."

The professor grins knowingly and considers for a moment.

"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help them? Would you try?"
"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"
"I wouldn't say that."

Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you could in fact most of us would if we could... God doesn't.
[No answer]

He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Student who died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. How is this God good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"
[No answer]

The elderly man is sympathetic. "No, you can't, can you?" He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. In philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones. Let's start again, young fella."

"Is God good?"
Er... Yes."

"Is Satan good?"
"No."

"Where does Satan come from?" The student falters.
From... God...

That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? The elderly man runs his bony fingers through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking, student audience.

"I think we're going to have a lot of fun this semester, ladies and gentlemen."

He turns back to the Student. "Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"
"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did God make everything?"
"Yes."

Who created evil?
[No answer]

Is there sickness in this world? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All the terrible things - do they exist in this world?"
The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

Who created them? "
[No answer]

The professor suddenly shouts at his student.
"WHO CREATED THEM? TELL ME, PLEASE!"

The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the students's face.

In a still small voice: "God created all evil didn't He, son?"
[No answer]

The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and fails. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace the front of the classroom
like an aging panther. The class is mesmerised. "Tell me," he continues,

How is it that this God is good if He created all evil throughout all time? The professor swishes his arms around to encompass the wickedness of the world.

All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all the torture, all the death and ugliness and all the suffering created by this good God is
all over the world, isn't it, young man?
[No answer]

Don't you see it all over the place? Huh? Pause. "Don't you?"

The professor leans into the student's face again and whispers, Is God good?"
[No answer]

"Do you believe in God, son?"
The student's voice betrays him and cracks.
"Yes, professor. I do."

The old man shakes his head sadly. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. You have never seen God,
Have you?
"No, sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your God?"
"No, sir. I have not."

"Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God or smelt your God...in fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God whatsoever?"
[No answer]

"Answer me, please."
"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"You're AFRAID... you haven't?"
"No, sir."

"Yet you still believe in him?"
"...yes..."

"That takes FAITH!" The professor smiles sagely at the underling. According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable
protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?

Where is your God now?"
[The student doesn't answer]

"Sit down, please."
The student sits...Defeated.

Another student raises his hand. "Professor, may I address the class?"

The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, another student in the vanguard! Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering." The Student looks around the room. "Some interesting points you are making, sir. Now I've got a question for you.

"Is there such thing as heat?"
Yes, the professor replies. "There's heat."

"Is there such a thing as cold?"
"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No, sir, there isn't."
The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly goes very cold. The second, Student continues.

You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat but we don't have anything
called 'cold'. We can hit 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than 458 - - You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. "Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it." Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom.

"Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?"
"That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn't darkness? What are you getting at...?"

So you say there is such a thing as darkness?"
"Yes..."

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright
light, flashing light but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we
use to define the word. In reality, Darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker and give me a jar of it. Can
you...give me a jar of darker darkness, professor?"

Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before him. This will indeed be a good semester.

"Would you mind telling us what your point is, young man?"
"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with and so your conclusion must be in error...."

"The professor goes toxic.Flawed...? How dare you...!"
"Sir, may I explain what I mean?"

The class is all ears.

"Explain... oh, explain..." The professor makes an admirable effort to regain control. Suddenly he is affability itself. He waves his hand to silence the class, for the student to continue.

"You are working on the premise of duality," the Student explains.

That for example there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science cannot even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism but has never seen, much less fully understood them. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, merely the absence of it."

The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbor who has been reading it.

"Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids this country hosts, professor.

Is there such a thing as immorality?"
"Of course there is, now look..."

"Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality.

Is there such thing as injustice?
No. "Injustice is the absence of justice. Is there such a thing as evil?"

The Student pauses.

"Isn't evil the absence of good?"

The professor's face has turned an alarming color. He is so angry he is temporarily speechless. The Student continues. "If there is evil in the world, professor, and we all agree there is, then God, if he exists, must be accomplishing a work through the agency of evil. What is that work, God is accomplishing?

Islam tells us it is to see if each one of us will, choose good over evil."

The professor bridles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't vie this matter as having anything to do with any choice; as a realist, I
absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any other theological factor as being part of the world equation because God is not
observable.

"I would have thought that the absence of God's moral code in this world is probably one of the most observable phenomena going,"
the Student replies.

"Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week! Tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a
monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."
"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth and gives his student a silent, stony stare.

"Professor. Since no-one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a priest?"

"I will overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical discussion. Now, have you quite finished?" the professor hisses.

"So you don't accept God's moral code to do what is righteous?"
"I believe in what is - that's science!"

"Ahh! SCIENCE!" the student's face splits into a grin.

"Sir, you rightly state that science is the study of observed phenomena. Science too is a premise which is flawed..."

"SCIENCE IS FLAWED..?" the professor splutters.

The class is in uproar.The Student remains standing until the commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student,> may I give you an example of what I mean?"

The professor wisely keeps silent. The Student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen air, Oxygen,
molecules, atoms, the professor's brain?"

The class breaks out in laughter. The Student points towards his elderly, crumbling tutor.

Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain... felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain?"

No one appears to have done so. The Student shakes his head sadly. It appears no-one here has had any sensory perception of the
professors brain whatsoever. Well, according to the rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science, I DECLARE that the professor has no brain."
 

biomat

Minister (2k+ posts)
Assalam-o-alaikum
Jaza-k-ALLAH commander bhai
Best words to explain. no need of explaination..
thanks a lot...
 

contra

Senator (1k+ posts)
nepali bhai,
1. You are right, Christopher Hitchens is one of the foremost atheists and is known for his strong views on religion and debating style.
His book - God is not Great, is a masterpiece.

2. You views on origin of religion is something i agree with. All religion are man made.

Nepali Pandit said:
I don't have to explain to you Contra that In terms of literature and knowledge Hinduism if by far the most biggest/advance/oldest religion, it is your privilege to be born into a Hindu family, you share the Hindu wisdom passed on to you by ancestors for 1000's of years, where you have choice to debate your religion and ultimately take your own path. You have freedom by law. We don't believe in conversion. I think knowledge about sanatan Dharma is again rising and whole world will benefit from it. Once I asked two very a 2 very knowledgeable people to explain me Santan Dharma in one word, one said it is LOVE and the other one said KNOWLEDGE.

3.a) You are entitled to your beliefs, but i don't agree with you completely.
Hinduism is the oldest, yes. But, the biggest and advanced? I think this is open for debate.
It is definitely not perfect. I think Zoroastrianism can definitely give competition to Hinduism.

b) Anyway, we were under British rule for 200 yrs., before that under Muslim rule for about 800 yrs., if religion had any role to play, then why did this happen?
Also, how many holy men etc. speak up against Untouchability? Even if some did, why did they fail in stopping it?

c) Religion is a man made thing, which is used by the strong to exploit and subjugate the weak.

4. One thing that i like about Hinduism is that it doesn't claim finality or superiority, neither is there a punishment for leaving Hinduism.
 

contra

Senator (1k+ posts)
biomat bhai,
You asked me to give the definition of God...you want to know how i define god, here it is [this is what i have heard other people say, of course]:

1. God made the whole universe in 7 days. The world was made about 5000 yrs. ago. He made Adam and Eve...then the "Apple incident"... Adam and Eve land on Earth, and they are the first humans on earth. We all trace our ancestory to these two.

2. God controls everything, nothing happens without his knowledge and approval. He decides the outcome of everything.
We act the way we do because of God, his influence.
I still don't understand the concept of "Free Will".

3. God made all the animals and plants etc.
To keep god happy, you should worship him, and sacrifice animals etc. on his name.

4. God is continuously testing people. People who are "bad" will burn in hell for eternity.
Also, those who do not believe in God, and do not acknowledge his existence will burn in hell.

5. There will be a day of judgement, when the whole world will be destroyed.
etc. etc.

*List is not exhaustive.
 

taul

Siasat.pk - Blogger
contra said:
2. God controls everything, nothing happens without his knowledge and approval. He decides the outcome of everything.
We act the way we do because of God, his influence.
I still don't understand the concept of "Free Will".



---It's quite simple,let's suppose you wish to do something of which you plan that in your head and do not know the outcome of it(Supposing in this case you wished to win big by playing lottery)you haven't shared that with anyone,you go ahead and take that action with your only free will..You Played hoping to win but did not and lost..

--All of this right from the idea that came to your head till the outcome of it was already known by Allah (SWT)..Allah (SWT) already knew the outcome of it even though you did not :)
 

foqia khan

MPA (400+ posts)
contra said:
biomat bhai,
You asked me to give the definition of God...you want to know how i define god, here it is [this is what i have heard other people say, of course]:

1. God made the whole universe in 7 days. The world was made about 5000 yrs. ago. He made Adam and Eve...then the "Apple incident"... Adam and Eve land on Earth, and they are the first humans on earth. We all trace our ancestory to these two.

2. God controls everything, nothing happens without his knowledge and approval. He decides the outcome of everything.
We act the way we do because of God, his influence.
I still don't understand the concept of "Free Will".

3. God made all the animals and plants etc.
To keep god happy, you should worship him, and sacrifice animals etc. on his name.

4. God is continuously testing people. People who are "bad" will burn in hell for eternity.
Also, those who do not believe in God, and do not acknowledge his existence will burn in hell.


5. There will be a day of judgement, when the whole world will be destroyed.
etc. etc.

*List is not exhaustive.




1. Free will:Allah Mighty knows before creating anything, that He is going to create it and that it shall be of such and such magnitude, quality or nature, etc. He also specifies the time of its coming into being and its passing away, and the place of its occurrence. If so, then one who believes in the true God should believe that there are no accidents in nature. If something disagreeable happens to him, he should say Allah qaddara (ordained), and He did what He willed and not grieve himself by wishing that it had not occurred, or worrying why it should occur. If, in contrast, something agreeable happens to him he should not boast of it, but thank Allah for it. In this context, Allah says, Naught of disaster befalleth in the earth or in yourselves but it is in a Book before We bring it into being. Lo! That is easy for Allah. That ye grieve not for the sake of that which hath escaped you, nor yet exult because of that which hath been given. Allah loveth not all prideful boasters. (Al-Hadid: 22-23)

If Allah Almighty predetermines everything, that includes our so-called free actions, in what way can they be said to be free, and how are we responsible for them?

Suppose a master sends his servant to the market to buy a book for him. The master has no idea for the price of the book ,so he gives 50 $ to his servant and without telling him, decides that if the book cost less than 50$ he will give the remaining money to his servant as gift. The book cost 25 $. and the servant knew that his master doesn't know the real price of the book , so he decides to keep the remaining and tells his master that the book cost 50$ .

Now those 25$ which the servant kept without his master's permission were written in his luck but it was he who chose his own way by using his free will ,but the true believer will always trust in Allah and submit his/her will towards him bcoz he/she knows, all what he will get ,will not be more or less than whatever is written in his luck and his/her eternal success also depends upon the choices he/she make .

2. people who are believers also suffer punish for the bad things that they would have done in life and after suffering their punish will enter the heaven. but if they repented in life and Allah (who is most merciful )accepted their repentance then they can also enter heaven without going through hell.
according to religion ,those who are non-believers will burn in hell forever ,even if they had done good things in life bcoz like in maths when your formula is wrong ,it doesn't matter in how many steps your answer match the right answer ,you get Zero, so in same way Tauhid (oneness of Allah)the message which Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) brought is the foundation or basic formula for getting marks.
 

biomat

Minister (2k+ posts)
Assalam-o-alaikum all
I find this article on net regarding the question raised by contra bhai..
In the Name of Allah. Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
We all know about TSunami Attack . thousand peoples died,The Killer wave distroyed every thing.thousand peoples are still missing . It was all,Punishment from Allah to those peoples.The wave distroyed every thing, but was not able to distroy a Masjid. If Allah wished to end your life,No one can save you,if he wished to keep you,then No One can Kill you!See the pictures of that masjid,pictures are taken from satellite.
Almighty Allah Says in QURAN : We will show them Our signs in all the regions of the earth and in their own souls until they clearly see that this is the truth (Surah Fussilat 41:53)
indomosq_good_w.jpg

baitulah-masjid-copy.jpg

indomosq_after2_w.jpg
 

biomat

Minister (2k+ posts)
salam
In the Name of Allah. Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Be sure We shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere. [156] Who say, when afflicted with calamity: "To Allah we belong, and to Him is our return" [157] They are those on whom (descend) blessings from their Lord, and Mercy, and they are the ones that receive guidance. [2:155-157]
****************************************
Anas asked our Mother `A'isha about earthquakes: Is it a punishment?
She replied: A mercy and a blessing and an admonishment for the Believers and an exemplary punishment and wrath and bane on the disbelievers. [A Hadeeth; Ibn Abi al-Dunya narrated it in al-`Uqubat and al-Hakim in the Mustadrak.]
***********************************************************************
bhai contra, either non muslim or muslim, if they do openly what ALLAH (GOD) have told us not to do, then ALLAH send HIS signs, still doesnot correct themselves, then HIS wrath on those people. So i will not specify whose fault was this (do remember what was the date of that deadly TSUNAMI, every one was busy making fun that night, also muslims & nonmuslims both were involved, or if not involved but didnot stop those acts & allowed to happen... but make this clear, muslims can get more punishment from ALLAH if they disobey HIM openly rather than nonmuslims, because they are disobeying ALLAH after accepting that they will follow HIS commands. There is a duty to all muslims specially to islamic or muslim state, they should do AMAR BIL MAAROOF WA NAHI ANIL MUNKER that is
Amongst the greatest obligations are amr-bil-Maroof (ordering for acknowledged virtues) and nahi anil munkar (forbidding from sin). Allah (SWT) says: And there should be a group amongst you who invite towards good, order for acknowledged virtues, forbid from sin and these it is that are the successful ones (Ale Imran: 104).
So earthquakes, floods, storms,terrorism, killings, occupation, drought, fear all are shapes of AZAB or wrath of ALLAH on people.. Some are signs to correct ourselves & some are HIS anger.. So in short if we as muslims donot do our job which we have to do that is spread word of ALLAH & correct our lives for 24hr in favour of ALLAH's commandment, then ALLAH says in quran (MAFHOOM or summarizing) that if we donot do what we are send to do, then ALLAH doesnot need such people, HE will riseup another group of people who will be far better than the prev ones, who will spread ALLAH words & perform their 24hr lives in full accordance with ALLAH commandments.. I hope u will understand this delicate issue.. May ALLAH give u reward for this contra bhai & give u right direction. My request to u again contra bhai altleast keep this thing in your mind that I NEED TO FOLLOW THE RIGHT PATH WHICH EVER IS TRUE.. I know u dont believe in GOD, so just keep this thought in mind insha ALLAH, ALLAH will guide you, according to your thirst.. With regards..

Sorry for my english.. May ALLAH help me so that i can express my feelings into words.. Forgive me..
 

contra

Senator (1k+ posts)
biomat bhai,
biomat said:
We all know about TSunami Attack . thousand peoples died,The Killer wave distroyed every thing.thousand peoples are still missing . It was all,Punishment from Allah to those peoples.The wave distroyed every thing, but was not able to distroy a Masjid. If Allah wished to end your life,No one can save you,if he wished to keep you,then No One can Kill you!See the pictures of that masjid,pictures are taken from satellite.
:shock: :shock: :shock:

1. This is the height of insensitivity!!!

2. The fisherman colony was a slum, made of metal sheets, plastic etc., whereas the mosque is made up of concrete!!!
That's the reason it is still standing.

Punishment from Allah to those peoples.
3. So, your god punished small children as well? What was their crime???

:evil: :evil: :evil:
 

taul

Siasat.pk - Blogger
contra said:
3. So, your god punished small children as well? What was their crime???

:evil: :evil: :evil:


---That's where Allah (SWT) stands all alone in HIS attributes where only Allah ( SWT) knows what bad they had indulged themselves into!!..Allah (SWT) is the Most just and Verily all happens with HIS knowledge :)
 

contra

Senator (1k+ posts)
taul said:
contra said:
3. So, your god punished small children as well? What was their crime???

:evil: :evil: :evil:


---That's where Allah (SWT) stands all alone in HIS attributes where only Allah ( SWT) knows what bad they had indulged themselves into!!..Allah (SWT) is the Most just and Verily all happens with HIS knowledge :)

taul bhai,
You are DELUSIONAL!!! you need help!!!
 

taul

Siasat.pk - Blogger
contra said:
taul bhai,

You are DELUSIONAL!!! you need help!!!



--We all know here very well who needs help badly :D .you stand by freedom of the West then echo your sentiments against em :( you unable to see anything in it's clarity even when presented and backed by scientific facts still you remain defiant and delusional and love to swim in the illusion of your own mind :cry:
 

Nepali Pandit

MPA (400+ posts)
pali420 said:
contra said:
biomat bhai,
You asked me to give the definition of God...you want to know how i define god, here it is [this is what i have heard other people say, of course]:

1. God made the whole universe in 7 days. The world was made about 5000 yrs. ago. He made Adam and Eve...then the "Apple incident"... Adam and Eve land on Earth, and they are the first humans on earth. We all trace our ancestory to these two.

2. God controls everything, nothing happens without his knowledge and approval. He decides the outcome of everything.
We act the way we do because of God, his influence.
I still don't understand the concept of "Free Will".

3. God made all the animals and plants etc.
To keep god happy, you should worship him, and sacrifice animals etc. on his name.

4. God is continuously testing people. People who are "bad" will burn in hell for eternity.
Also, those who do not believe in God, and do not acknowledge his existence will burn in hell.

5. There will be a day of judgement, when the whole world will be destroyed.
etc. etc.

*List is not exhaustive.

PROBLEM:

1. The debate that God is or God is not is a problem not a solution.
2. More people are killed in the name of God then any war or epidemic in whole human history.
3. Both believer in god and atheist are ignorant of the realty and indulging themselves in useless debate. Both of them have no personnel knowledge if it is or it is not. its like if a wet cat comes in the room, one person concludes its raining outside and one says its not raining out and cat is wet because of some other reason. Neither of them wants to go out and check themselves if its raining or not.
4. Neither of them is satisfied, both are suffering from ages, in fact believers are suffering more then the atheist, as believers go killing others. only a person who is miserable can kill others.
5. Then Is there a solution? yes.

SOLUTION:

1. Neither the believer nor the atheist can prove their point of existence or non existence of god, But they both can not deny that they both are. Self-denying is impossible.
2. Once you grasp self existence, then its fairly easy to pin point your issues.
a. Every being's(self) no. 1 issue is that they dont want to die. Every body wants to live forever, that's why they have these fantasies of heaven, rebirth, having kids so they can live in them after they die. Scientific research is also going on to gain immortality. etc. etc. Conclusion is every being (self) wants to be immortal.

b. Every being wants to know more actually wants to know everything, these newspapers, tv, radios, cinema, internet and all kind of other media, going out into space, looking in other peoples lives, window watching, all prove that self want to know more and more. So their is a pursuit for knowledge.

c. Every being wants to be happy, all these power grabbing, money making, hording, clubs, music, relations are pursuits for happiness.

3. Once you realize these three bondage, then you can try to figure them out how to get out of them. So now you have a destination But if you are a driver and know about the directions then you know to reach a destination you need to know your origin, your starting point.

4. So it comes back to you (Self), you need to know yourself( The I), once you know your self immediately you will know if God is or is not. And by the way that's what sanatana dharma(Hindu, Buddh, Jain, Sikh) teaches, It teaches that you find only oneness, the non dual, but not in books only by self awareness by questioning yourself by meditation. Sanatana Dharma neither believe in God nor not believe in god, it believes in pursuit of self knowledge.

5. I know its hard way, the lazy and easy way is to read some books and make an opinion if god is or is not and keep debating and keep suffering endlessly.


Absolute beauty,
Thats Sanatana Dharma in few lines, (probably) most advanced Dharma in the whole world. I had put some quotes by Chanakya but moderator quickly removed it. I thought that quote could be useful to all irrespective of religion. But looks like moderator is quite insecure when it comes to other religions and cultures.
 

foqia khan

MPA (400+ posts)
biomat said:
Anas asked our Mother `A'isha about earthquakes: Is it a punishment?
She replied: A mercy and a blessing and an admonishment for the Believers and an exemplary punishment and wrath and bane on the disbelievers. [A Hadeeth; Ibn Abi al-Dunya narrated it in al-`Uqubat and al-Hakim in the Mustadrak.]


I 'm quoting few Hadiths to clearify the meaning of the Hadith you have mentioned.

1. Sunan Abudawud (35:4265) Narrated AbuMusa:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: This people of mine is one to which mercy is shown. It will have no punishment in the next world, but its punishment in this world will be trials, earthquakes and being killed.


2. Sahih Muslim (020:4706)
It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira (through another chain of transmitters) that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Whom do you consider to be a martyr among you? They (the Companions) said: Messenger, of Allah, one who is slain in the way of Allah is a martyr. He said: Then (if this is the definition of a martyr) the martyrs of my Umma will be small in number. They asked: Messenger of Allah, who are they? He said: One who is slain in the way of Allah is a martyr; one who dies in the way of Allah, is a martyr; one who dies of plague is a martyr; one who dies of cholera is a martyr. Ibn Miqsam said: I testify the truth of your father's statement (with regard to this tradition) that the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) said: One who is drowned is a martyr.

3. Sahih Bukhari (11:624) Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "While a man was going on a way, he saw a thorny branch and removed it from the way and Allah became pleased by his action and forgave him for that." Then the Prophet said, "Five are martyrs: One who dies of plague, one who dies of an abdominal disease, one who dies of drowning, one who is buried alive (and) dies and one who is killed in Allah's cause." (The Prophet further said, "If the people knew the reward for pronouncing the Adhan and for standing in the first row (in the congregational prayer) and found no other way to get it except by drawing lots they would do so, and if they knew the reward of offering the Zuhr prayer early (in its stated time), they would race for it and they knew the reward for 'Isha' and Fajr prayers in congregation, they would attend them even if they were to crawl')

4. Sunan Abudawud (14:2535) Narrated Hasana' daughter of Mu'awiyah:
She reported on the authority of her paternal uncle: I asked the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him): Who are in Paradise? He replied: Prophets are in Paradise, martyrs are in Paradise, infants are in Paradise and children buried alive are in Paradise.


5. Malik's Muwatta(8: 8.2.6)
Yahya related to me from Malik from Sumayy, the mawla of Abu Bakr ibn Abd ar-Rahman from Abu Salih from Abu Hurayra that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "If a man who is walking along a road finds a branch of thorns on the road and removes it, Allah thanks him for doing it and forgives him." He also said, "martyrs are five: the one killed by a plague, the one killed by a disease of the belly, the one who drowns, the one killed by a collapsing building, and the martyr in the path of Allah.' He also said, "If people knew what there was in the call to prayer and the first row, and they could find no other way except to draw lots for it, they would draw lots for it. And if they knew what there was in doing dhuhr at its time, they would race each other to it. And if they knew what there was in the prayers of isha and maghrib, they would come to them even if they had to crawl .
 

foqia khan

MPA (400+ posts)
contra said:
biomat bhai,
biomat said:
We all know about TSunami Attack . thousand peoples died,The Killer wave distroyed every thing.thousand peoples are still missing . It was all,Punishment from Allah to those peoples.The wave distroyed every thing, but was not able to distroy a Masjid. If Allah wished to end your life,No one can save you,if he wished to keep you,then No One can Kill you!See the pictures of that masjid,pictures are taken from satellite.
:shock: :shock: :shock:

1. This is the height of insensitivity!!!

2. The fisherman colony was a slum, made of metal sheets, plastic etc., whereas the mosque is made up of concrete!!!
That's the reason it is still standing.

Punishment from Allah to those peoples.
3. So, your god punished small children as well? What was their crime???

:evil: :evil: :evil:
1.If the reason for the standing of the mosque is concrete than I agree with you but I don't think that the construction material would be different from other buildings in making of these mosques bcoz countries where houses and buildings are made of artifical wood and plastic kind of materials ,their only foundations are made of concrete ,and it is not affordable for anyone to make whole building with it .

2. death itself is a start of punishment for the non believers and the disasters of TSunami and earthquakes etc are the reminders for all the people who are alive to learn lesson .

3. children are not punished for any crime ,its only that life and death is in Allah's hand and He know when to take it.
children are not included in non believers.
 

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