Confusion: Purposeful or not.

[Star Gazer]

DEAR MEMBERS
For the past few weeks I have been reading threads posted by some members aiming to either confuse people or just because the thread poster is confused in his/her mind and just perpetrating the same because they have access to internet and some free time.

My question to all those members/readers is as follows, please take the time to answer, it will make it clear to all of us how we think and maybe help to clear some doubts also.

All those members who are so vehemently and constantly calling on Army to shoot the drones, or stop US agents from entering the country, or do this and do that. But they do not stop at this and go on to call the Army names(which by the way only reveals their thinking).

Q- What do you want the Army to do? Choose your option, please.

1- Do you want the Army to over ride and defy the civilian governments orders, because it is now the civilian government that is now in control and they have to call the shots?. Please understand that Army can only do what the Prime minister authorises to do in terms of the final goals.

2- Do you want the Army to follow the orders of the civilian government because that is what the democracy is about?

These are the only two options lets see how much thinking have you put into your demands.

 

[desicad]

stop being naive.... you know very well that the civilian govt. has nothing to do with these drones and its the army calling the shots in facilitating the drone attacks.

 

[CoolDool]

:rule: Pakistan army has never been under civilian govt.' orders :-)

 

[Star Gazer]

:rule: Pakistan army has never been under civilian govt.' orders :-)

Can you answer the question instead of trying to derail. I am asking you to demonstrate clarity of your thinking. Posting irrelevant statements does not show that. Please, it gets boring asking the same thing over and over again.

 

[CoolDool]

The question itself has no sense :-)

Can you answer the question instead of trying to derail. I am asking you to demonstrate clarity of your thinking. Posting irrelevant statements does not show that. Please, it gets boring asking the same thing over and over again.

 

[Star Gazer]

stop being naive.... you know very well that the civilian govt. has nothing to do with these drones and its the army calling the shots in facilitating the drone attacks.

As for you! Rest assured huge majority od Pakistanis believe that india is behind the terrorism in Pakistan, read the pole if you have any doubts. And stop trying to pose as an intellectual. You are transparent.

 

[Star Gazer]

The question itself has no sense :-)

Really? Thank you now I know how clearly you think. It is easy to hide behind accusations and demands.
You can not even answer the simple question with any clarity and expect your demands to be met! Enjoy your drawing room discussions.

 

[CoolDool]

Can you answer the question instead of trying to derail. I am asking you to demonstrate clarity of your thinking. Posting irrelevant statements does not show that. Please, it gets boring asking the same thing over and over again.

Well if you ask a question which country is not against Pakistan and you give us 2 options India or Israel. What will you expect from others ?

 

[desicad]

As for you! Rest assured huge majority od Pakistanis believe that india is behind the terrorism in Pakistan, read the pole if you have any doubts. And stop trying to pose as an intellectual. You are transparent.

If India is behind terrorism then paki army should tackle it head on instead of allowing US to kill its own citizens.

 

[Star Gazer]

Well if you ask a question which country is not against Pakistan and you give us 2 options India or Israel. What will you expect from others ?

Sawal ka jawab na dena aur dunya bhar ki batain karna zahir karta hai keh aap ko jawab naheen aata ya aap bohat samajh daar hain aur commitment karna naheen chahatay.
There is a proverb for this " Sawal gandum jawab chana". Now you know why we are not able to elect leaders with good clear thinking?

 

[Star Gazer]

If India is behind terrorism then paki army should tackle it head on instead of allowing US to kill its own citizens.

I agree with you and Insha Allah that day will come soon.

 

[desicad]

I agree with you and Insha Allah that day will come soon.

chalo kisi baat pe aap humse raazi to hui ....... :)

 

[crankthskunk]

Star Gazer,

When PPP tried to give ISI under the control of Civilian Government under the traitor Rehman Malik, they refused and the order issued was cancelled.

I never used to criticise the Army but now after this Davis issue, I have absolutely no choice but to criticise the Army, otherwise I would be a hypocrite not to write my true feelings.

The facts are very clear, the traitor Musharaf bowed down, and he created all this mess in Pakistan. Instead of saying he is with USA, he could have said we are independent and neutral, we are neither with your or against you. He should have closed down the borders with Afghanistan completely by erecting barbed wired boundaries and more observation posts. Isolate Pakistan from Afghanistans problems and let the Americans take care of their dirty work in Afghanistan and let them face the consequences.

Iran did the same, they have border with Afghanistan, but are they in the same problems we are? Think about it. What happened to Pakistan after joining this war in terror? Thousands of Pakistanis killed in terrorists attacks, drone attacks, shattered economy, no investment, jobs, any prospect of progress and change? Thats what Musharaf wanted and envisaged for Pakistan?

I am afraid Kiyani and PPP government is following same policies like Musharaf, they have even gone miles ahead compare to Musharaf. Kiyani is an understudy of Musharaf; he had been nurtured by Musharaf and prompted to COAS because Musharaf thought he would allow him to Govern Pakistan as a Civilian President. Kiyani had been involved in negotiation of NRO, part of which was BB as Prime Minister and Mush as President. It is the Army and ISI who has agreed to the drone attacks, and given CIA and Americans air bases and intelligence co-operation. This is back firing on Pakistan, causing death of hundreds of Pakistanis.

Who should we blame you tell us?

 

[gazoomartian]

DEAR MEMBERS
For the past few weeks I have been reading threads posted by some members aiming to either confuse people or just because the thread poster is confused in his/her mind and just perpetrating the same because they have access to internet and some free time.

My question to all those members/readers is as follows, please take the time to answer, it will make it clear to all of us how we think and maybe help to clear some doubts also.

All those members who are so vehemently and constantly calling on Army to shoot the drones, or stop US agents from entering the country, or do this and do that. But they do not stop at this and go on to call the Army names(which by the way only reveals their thinking).

Q- What do you want the Army to do? Choose your option, please.

1- Do you want the Army to over ride and defy the civilian governments orders, because it is now the civilian government that is now in control and they have to call the shots?. Please understand that Army can only do what the Prime minister authorises to do in terms of the final goals.

2- Do you want the Army to follow the orders of the civilian government because that is what the democracy is about?

These are the only two options lets see how much thinking have you put into your demands.

Dear Star

Your question is very reasonable and legitimate but you must not expect a reciprocity from these members - for reasons:

1. They are two young and their brains are very tender and unable to understand the true picture of whats happening in our country.

2. There are some who just have grudge against our army for what ever reasons, may be their loved one have been killed, hurt in cross fire. Even if the fault lies on the other party, army will always take the blame.

3. There are also Indian members who are hired by the Indian govt and are here on every 8hr shift. They do not let an opportunity slip by to attack our forces. Thats what they are here for and that's what they do. I am sure each and every post here is analyzed by the shift lead and forwarded to the head quarter in New Delhi. If I were the owner of the Forum I would steadfastly ban all Indians thru their IP addresses but siasat.pk is a business and has nothing to do with Pak nationality. Therefore, siasat has to cater to the Indian advertisers also. who make sure to let the Siasat managemnet know of their feelings about the postings. This is just my guess and does not reflect the facts since I am no in siasat.

4. Then there are some who were born in UK/US etc to their Pakistani parents and as such there is a big disconnect between our ideology and the ideology of their birth country. Their parents may think differently.

5. Then there are some who are Qadyani. You might have noticed that in every shift there is at least one Qadyani on board. They probably take orders from their HQ located in Jeruslem, Israel and they do not waste a moment to spewing posion to our country.

6. There are some who are active in inter-party war on the forum. Constantly trying to prove that their part is IT. Predominantly members of MQM and PTI are always at each others throat and of course PML-N and Mush.

The only people who seriously think about the country are us, the old folks who have seen the transition of downfall from once strong Pakistan during Ayuub days (at least economically anyway) to the destruction of the country so far.

My heart aches thinking that from the Chief Justice down to the clerk of a rural town in Sindh has gone corrupt and ready to destroy their own country thru corruption, killing, injustice etc.

Faisal RAza Abdi, the other night has reinforced my take on the judges that they are CORRUPT and enemy of the judiciary and social justice. Senator Abdi was 100% correct in claiming that judges are letting terrorist go free. Why? Your guess is just as good mine - CORRUPTION - noton ki guddi

yeh kuch nahi hai but tatheer, thru which once we have gone, will rise a Pakistan that will be strong, powerful and self reliant - will call all the shots - hence the kafereen worried. They know it will happen, that why trying to circumvent it.

I will say it again what Mohammad pbuh says, becomes carved in stone - bus zara teher jao - kaferon ki eint bajani hai - I just wish it happens in my life time

 

[awan4ever]

DEAR MEMBERS
For the past few weeks I have been reading threads posted by some members aiming to either confuse people or just because the thread poster is confused in his/her mind and just perpetrating the same because they have access to internet and some free time.

My question to all those members/readers is as follows, please take the time to answer, it will make it clear to all of us how we think and maybe help to clear some doubts also.

All those members who are so vehemently and constantly calling on Army to shoot the drones, or stop US agents from entering the country, or do this and do that. But they do not stop at this and go on to call the Army names(which by the way only reveals their thinking).

Q- What do you want the Army to do? Choose your option, please.

1- Do you want the Army to over ride and defy the civilian governments orders, because it is now the civilian government that is now in control and they have to call the shots?. Please understand that Army can only do what the Prime minister authorises to do in terms of the final goals.

2- Do you want the Army to follow the orders of the civilian government because that is what the democracy is about?

These are the only two options lets see how much thinking have you put into your demands.

The Army is NOT under the civilian control and never has been.

They refused to allow the ISI to come under govt. control by bringing it under the ministry of interior. Ofcourse Abdul Rehman Malik is an idiot who doesn't command any respect yet the fact of the matter is that the Army defied the civilain government.

The Army refuses to allow itself to be held accountable by the elected parliament. They do not allow the defense budget to be discussed in any open forum and neither give details of expenditures. They do not allow the Public Accounts committee to look into the accounts and practices of army backed commercial entities even case in point the NLC container scam. Google it.

So the whole premise of your questions is flawed.
The Army is a state within a state and the generals look at the rest as 'bloody civilians' who need to be kept inline with a 'danda'.

 

[awan4ever]

Gazoo as usual is shootin blanks. If his generation was so worried about the country they would have been smart and done something 20 years ago and stopped our downfall into religious and sectarian hatred or better yet avoided the fiasco of 1971.
Ab aa ker dramay ker raha hay yahan keh he is the most worried and everyone else is either a qadiani or an indian agent or an ignorant fool who doesnt understand the ground realities.
Khud pata nahi kab say canada mein gorion kay pechay bhagta phir aha hay aur logon ko dars deta phirta hay mulk sanwarnay ka.

 

[gazoomartian]

Star Gazer,

When PPP tried to give ISI under the control of Civilian Government under the traitor Rehman Malik, they refused and the order issued was cancelled.

I never used to criticise the Army but now after this Davis issue, I have absolutely no choice but to criticise the Army, otherwise I would be a hypocrite not to write my true feelings.

The facts are very clear, the traitor Musharaf bowed down, and he created all this mess in Pakistan. Instead of saying he is with USA, he could have said we are independent and neutral, we are neither with your or against you. He should have closed down the borders with Afghanistan completely by erecting barbed wired boundaries and more observation posts. Isolate Pakistan from Afghanistans problems and let the Americans take care of their dirty work in Afghanistan and let them face the consequences.

Iran did the same, they have border with Afghanistan, but are they in the same problems we are? Think about it. What happened to Pakistan after joining this war in terror? Thousands of Pakistanis killed in terrorists attacks, drone attacks, shattered economy, no investment, jobs, any prospect of progress and change? Thats what Musharaf wanted and envisaged for Pakistan?

I am afraid Kiyani and PPP government is following same policies like Musharaf, they have even gone miles ahead compare to Musharaf. Kiyani is an understudy of Musharaf; he had been nurtured by Musharaf and prompted to COAS because Musharaf thought he would allow him to Govern Pakistan as a Civilian President. Kiyani had been involved in negotiation of NRO, part of which was BB as Prime Minister and Mush as President. It is the Army and ISI who has agreed to the drone attacks, and given CIA and Americans air bases and intelligence co-operation. This is back firing on Pakistan, causing death of hundreds of Pakistanis.

Who should we blame you tell us?

ISI and other spy agencies should only go under a person or ministry that deserve it. Do you think Malik on own accord was asking to run ISI.

We should be thankful that Keyani didnt let that idiot run the ISI. Had it been under his control, Pasha and other top brasses would have been handed over to US within a week. You saw the Raymond Davis case. How cleverly they handed over and it didnt bother them that Pakistan has been inured

 

[moazzamniaz]

١-سب سے پہلے نمبر پر تو یہ پراکسی فساد کی پالیسی ختم کریں. اور سب دراندازی بند کر کے پاکستان کی جغرافیائی سرحدوں کا دفاع کریں.جو مجاہدین بناے گئے ہیں، انکی 'معاشرتی بحالی' کی جائے. اور انکی نرسریوں یعنی مدرسوں کے نصاب سے فرقہ ورانہ نفرت ختم کی جائےاور تکفیری عناصر کو لگام دی جائے

٢- اپنی کرپشن، توسیع پسند پالیسیاں اور اللے تللے بند کر کے سارا پیسہ عوام کی تعلیم، صحت، سائنس، ٹیکنالوجی وغیرہ پر خرچ کریں.اپنے پروردہ سیاستدانوں، جاگیر داروں، صنعتکاروں وغیرہ کو اس 'ٹوپی ڈرامے' سے رخصت دی جائے اور صحیح اور مخلص لوگوں اور قانون کی مطلق حکمرانی پر مبنی حکومت قائم کی جائے. اور اگر کوئی سویلین حکومت وغیرہ کی طرف سے رکاوٹ کی بات کرنا چاہتا ہے تو حقیقت یہ ہے کہ پاکستان کا کوئی بھی ادارہ، فوج کے ایک جوتے کی مار بھی نہیں ہے. یہ بات میں دن میں دس بار دیکھتا ہوں

یہ بیس، پچیس سال ان پر عمل کر لیں. اسکے بعد پھر چاہے افغانستان کی اندھی گہرائیوں میں 'جخ' ماریں، یا کہ کشمیر و انڈیا فتح کرتے رہیں، مجھے کوئی اعتراض نہیں. سارے طاقتور ممالک دنیا میں کمزور ممالک پر یہی تجربات کرتے پھر رہے ہیں

 

[gazoomartian]

١-سب سے پہلے نمبر پر تو یہ پراکسی فساد کی پالیسی ختم کریں. اور سب دراندازی بند کر کے پاکستان کی جغرافیائی سرحدوں کا دفاع کریں.جو مجاہدین بناے گئے ہیں، انکی 'معاشرتی بحالی' کی جائے. اور انکی نرسریوں یعنی مدرسوں کے نصاب سے فرقہ ورانہ نفرت ختم کی جائےاور تکفیری عناصر کو لگام دی جائے

٢- اپنی کرپشن، توسیع پسند پالیسیاں اور اللے تللے بند کر کے سارا پیسہ عوام کی تعلیم، صحت، سائنس، ٹیکنالوجی وغیرہ پر خرچ کریں.اپنے پروردہ سیاستدانوں، جاگیر داروں، صنعتکاروں وغیرہ کو اس 'ٹوپی ڈرامے' سے رخصت دی جائے اور صحیح اور مخلص لوگوں اور قانون کی مطلق حکمرانی پر مبنی حکومت قائم کی جائے. اور اگر کوئی سویلین حکومت وغیرہ کی طرف سے رکاوٹ کی بات کرنا چاہتا ہے تو حقیقت یہ ہے کہ پاکستان کا کوئی بھی ادارہ، فوج کے ایک جوتے کی مار بھی نہیں ہے. یہ بات میں دن میں دس بار دیکھتا ہوں

یہ بیس، پچیس سال ان پر عمل کر لیں. اسکے بعد پھر چاہے افغانستان کی اندھی گہرائیوں میں 'جخ' ماریں، یا کہ کشمیر و انڈیا فتح کرتے رہیں، مجھے کوئی اعتراض نہیں. سارے طاقتور ممالک دنیا میں کمزور ممالک پر یہی تجربات کرتے پھر رہے ہیں

yaar even one 5 yr term would be enough if leaders are honest. Just ONE etrm with honest and imaandaar and hubbul watan leader and brave bhi jo sirf allah aur uske nabi pbuh sey drey

دیکھیے پاتے ہیںہم پی ٹی ا ئی سے کیا فیض
اک برہمن نے کہا ہے کہ عمران اچھا ہے

(bigsmile)(bigsmile)​

 

[CoolDool]

Sawal ka jawab na dena aur dunya bhar ki batain karna zahir karta hai keh aap ko jawab naheen aata ya aap bohat samajh daar hain aur commitment karna naheen chahatay.
There is a proverb for this " Sawal gandum jawab chana". Now you know why we are not able to elect leaders with good clear thinking?

lols sawal theek hou ga tou jawab bhi theek hou ga na, jub sawal he gandum hou ga tou jawab tou chana milay ga na, have you heard Fouzia Wahab's statement in which she said civilian govt has no control over Pakistan foreign policy.