Character of Imam according to Dr. Allama Iqbal

Baba jee

Councller (250+ posts)
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( Allama Iqbal )

Please be positive and don't post any sectarian comments.
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Muslim1

Banned
Re: Charector of Imam according to Dr. Allama Iqbal

Alama Iqbal used the word "Imam" in the sense of a leader not somebody who has religious authority.

Only Prophets have religious authority. No Imam has religious authority, they can only base their fatwas based on Quraan and Hadeeth. Even Imam fatwa can be challenge if it is contrary to Quraan and Hadeeth.
 
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ahmadalikhan

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Charector of Imam according to Dr. Allama Iqbal

MashAllah, Kya topic chhair diya, Iqbal Ke Mazeed Ashar Imam ke bare Mein, SubhanAllah
bohat Important aur samjhne wale shair hain, I think Iqbal knew about that Imam.

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atensari

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Re: Charector of Imam according to Dr. Allama Iqbal

Alama Iqbal used the word "Imam" in the sense of a leader not somebody who has religious authority.

Only Prophets have religious authority. No Imam has religious authority, they can only base their fatwas based on Quraan and Hadeeth. Even Imam fatwa can be challenge if it is contrary to Hadeeth.

دیکھتے ہیں بابا جی کیا جواب عنائیت فرماتے ہیں، علامہ اقبال نے "امامت" لغوی مفہوم میں استعمال کی ہے یا اصطلاحی مفہوم میں

نسل اگر مسلم کي مذہب پر مقدم ہوگئي
اڑ گيا دنيا سے تو مانند خاک رہ گزر
تا خلافت کي بنا دنيا ميں ہو پھر استور
لا کہيں سے ڈھونڈ کر اسلاف کا قلب و جگر

بابا جی میرے خیال میں دوسرے شعر میں اسی خلافت کا بیان ہے جس کا تذکرہ حدیث میں ملتا اور آپ نے اس حدیث پر ناپسنددگی کا اظہار فرمایا تھا
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?62603-%D8%A7%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%85%D8%AA-%D9%88-%D8%AE%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%81%D8%AA-%DA%A9%DB%8C-%D8%A8%D8%AD%D8%AB!!!-Worth-Reading!&p=371621&viewfull=1#post371621
 
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Baba jee

Councller (250+ posts)
Re: Charector of Imam according to Dr. Allama Iqbal

Asr-e-Man Danundah -e- Assraar Neest
Yousaf-e-Man Baher in Baazaar Neest :doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:


Please don't ask now about in which sense Allama Iqbal mentioned Yousaf here!
 

atensari

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Re: Charector of Imam according to Dr. Allama Iqbal

We simply asked did Iqbal's concepts of Imam matches with yours [Yes/No].
 

Muslim1

Banned
Muslims today, are divided amongst themselves. Such divisions are not endorsed by Islam. Islam believes in fostering unity amongst its followers.

The Glorious Qur’an says:

“And hold fast, altogether, by the rope Which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves.” [Al-Qur’an 3:103]

Which is the rope of Allah that is being referred to in this verse? It is the Glorious Qur’an. The Glorious Qur’an is the rope of Allah which all Muslims should hold fast together. There is double emphasis in this verse. Beside saying ‘hold fast all together’ it also says, ‘be not divided’.

The Qur’an further says,

“Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger” [Al-Qur’an 4:59]

All the Muslims should follow the Qur’an and authentic Ahadith and ensure that they are not divided among themselves.

2.It is prohibited to make divisions in Islam.

The Glorious Qur’an says:

“As for those who divide Their religion and break up Into sects, you have no part in them in the least: Their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.” [Al-Qur’an 6:159]

In this verse Allah (swt) says that one should disassociate oneself from those who divide their religion and break it up into sects.

But when one asks a Muslim, “who are you?” the common answer is either ‘I am a Hanafi or Shafi or Maliki or Hanbali. Some call themselves ‘Ahle-Hadith’.

3.Four Schools of Thoughts

The Islamic world has produced several learned Islamic scholars (Imams), but out of these, four became more famous and their teachings spread in different parts of the world.

It is a misconception that a Muslim should follow any one of these four schools of thoughts i.e. Hanafi, Shafi, Hanbali or Maliki. There is no proof whatsoever in the Qur’an or any authentic Hadith that a Muslim should only follow one of these four Imams.

4.Respect all the Great Scholars of Islam.

We must respect all the great scholars of Islam, including the four Imaams, Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Shafi, Imam Hanbal and Imam Malik (may Allah be pleased with them all). They were great scholars and may Allah reward them for their research and hard work. One can have no objection if someone agrees with the view and research of any one or more from these four great scholars of Islam.

5.All Four Imam said follow the Qur’an and Sunnah.

All the four great Imams said that if any of their Fatwas or teachings contradict Allah’s word, i.e. the Qur’an, or the sayings of the Prophet (pbuh) i.e. authentic Hadith, then that particulars Fatwa of theirs should be rejected, and the Sunnah of the Prophet should be followed.

Refer:

a.Eeqaadh al-Himam, Al Fulaanee (Imam Abu Hanifa)

b.Al-Majmoo’ of an-Nawawee (1/63) (Imam Shafi)

c.Jaami ‘Bayan al-Ilm, Ibn Abdul-Barr (Imam Malik)

d.Eeqaadh al-Himam (Imam Hanbal)

To give you an example in this context – Imam shafi said that when a women touches a man who is in a state of wudhu, the wudhu of the man breaks. However, this ruling of Imam Shafi contradicts the authentic saying of the Prophet.
Narrated Aisha
The Prophet (may peace be upon him) kissed one of his wives and went out for saying prayer. He did not perform ablution. (Sunan Abu Dawood Vol. 1 Chapter No. 70 Hadith No. 179)

Thus this particular teaching of Imam Shafi contradicts the authentic saying of the Prophet. So I reject this specific ruling of Imam Shafi who himself said , “ If I say something, then compare it to the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of His messenger and if it agrees to them, then accept it and that which goes against them, then reject it and throw my saying against the wall” – This is a saying of ash-Shafi’ee-rahimaullah. See Al-Majmoo’ of an-Nawawee (1/63).

Thus by rejecting this particular teaching of Imam Shafi which contradicts the authentic Hadith, I am practically a better follower of Imam Shafi than those who call themselves ‘Shafi’.

Similarly in practice, I claim to be a better follower of Imam Abu Hanifa than those who call themselves ‘Hanafi’. I claim to be a better follower of Imam Hanbal than those who call themselves ‘Hanbali’. I claim to be a better follower of Imam Malik than those who call themselves ‘Maliki”. If being a ‘Ahle-Hadith’ means following Qur’an and authentic Hadith then I claim to be a better follower of the Qur’an and authentic Hadith than those who call themselves ‘ Ahle-Hadith’. All these are mere labels (Hanafi, Shafi, Hanbali, Maliki, Ahle-Hadith) that are not endorsed by the Qur’an or the Sahih Ahadith.

The only label or title given by the Qur’an and the Sahih Hadith is MUSLIM.

6. All the Groups have sub divisions

I personally have no objection if someone calls himself Hanafi, Shafi, Hanbali, Maliki or Ahle Hadith. People give different labels to themselves to identify which set of teachings they prefer to follow and to disassociate themselves from those people who follow wrong practices. From history we come to know that all the labels given to different groups, at a later stage the people from that group themselves did not follow their teachings and made new sub-groups. Therefore in all the groups you find a sub-division.

But as far as giving a label to identify what a person practices in Islam is concerned, there can not be better label than what Allah (swt) has given i.e. a Muslim.

7. Our Prophet was a Muslim

“Who was our beloved Prophet (pbuh)? Was he a Hanafi or a Shafi, or a Hanbali or a Maliki ?” No! He was a Muslim, like all the other Prophets and Messengers of Allah before him.

It is mentioned in chapter 3 verse 52 of Al-Qur’an that Jesus (pbuh) was a Muslim.

Further , in chapter 3 verse 67, Al-Qur’an says that Ibrahim (pbuh) was not a Jew or a Christian but was a Muslim.

8. Qur’an says call yourselves Muslims

There is no Qur’anic verse or any authentic Hadith that says you should call yourselves Hanafi, Shafi, Hanbali, Maliki or Ahle Hadith.

If anyone poses a Muslim the question who are you, he should say “I am a Muslim, not a Hanafi or a Shafi or a Ahle-Hadith”.

In Surah Fussilat chapter 41 verse 33 Allah (swt) says: “Who is better in speech than one who calls (men) to Allah, works righteousness, and says, ‘I am of those Who bow in Islam (Muslim)?’ “[Al-Qur’an 41:33]

The Qur’an instructs, “Say: I am of those who bow in Islam”. In other words, say, “I am a Muslim”.

The Prophet (pbuh) dictated letters to non-Muslim kings and rulers inviting them to accept Islam. In these letters he mentioned the verse of the Qur’an from Surah Al Imran chapter 3 verse 64:

Say ye: “Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (submitting to Allah’s Will).”[Al-Qur’an 3:64]

9. Lip Service Muslims

Allah knew that even in the Muslim Ummah there will be many people who claim to be Muslims (i.e. claim to submit their will to Allah) but practically will not follow Allah’s commands.

Allah refers to such people in the Qur’an as lip service Believers (Al Qur’an 5:41). Thus we can conclude that those who claim to be Muslims but do not follow Qur’an and Sunnah are Lip-Service Muslims. Those who follow the Qur’an and authentic Hadith should not change their label, and stick to the best label given by Allah (swt) i.e. Muslim and which the Prophet also called himself.

10. The Prophet had said that there would be 73 sects.

Some may argue by quoting the Hadith of our beloved Prophet, from Sunan Abu Dawood Hadith No. 4579. In this Hadith the Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said, “My community will split up into seventy-three sects.”

This hadith reports that the prophet predicted the emergence of seventy-three sects. He did not say that Muslims should be active in dividing themselves into sects. The Glorious Qur’an commands us not to create sects. Those who follow the teachings of the Qur’an and Sahih Hadith, and do not create sects are the people who are on the true path.

According to Tirmidhi Hadith No. 171, the prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said, “My Ummah will be fragmented into seventy three sects, and all of them will be in Hell fire except one sect.” The companions asked Allah’s messenger which group that would be. Where upon he replied, “It is the one to which I and my companions belong”.

The Glorious Qur’an mentions in several verses, “Obey Allah and obey His Messenger”. A true Muslim should only follow the Glorious Qur’an and the Sahih Hadith. He can agree with the views of any scholar as long as they conform to the teachings of the Qur’an and Sahih Hadith. If such views go against the Word of Allah, or the Sunnah of His Prophet, then they carry no weight, regardless of how learned the scholar might be. A true Muslim will not follow any ruling or teaching of any great scholar of Islam if that particular ruling or teaching contradicts the Qur’an and Saheeh Hadith.

Thus, the only school of thought that a Muslim should follow, is that of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). The only Madhab that a Muslim should follow, is the Madhab of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). And Allah knows the Best.
If You Find anything That Contradicts With Quran and Authentic Hadiths In their Teaching ,Reject it and Follow what the Quran and Authentic Hadith says.

All The Scholars/Imams of The Madhab Said If any Thing That Contradicts with Quran and Authentic Hadith in their teaching Do not Follow that Teaching and Follow what Quran and Authentic Hadith says.
 

samar

Minister (2k+ posts)
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( Allama Iqbal )

Please be positive and don't post any sectarian comments.
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Thanks Babajee..............

this is one of my favorites................

ALkin babajee hm kabi b khuley zehn or dil se kisi cheez ko nhi parhtey isi liaey hm quran k b apni matlab k meaning nikal letey hain.
instead of understanding what the poet is saying we are trying to give it our own colour.

hmain hr misrey pe ghore krnee chahey k iqbal kia kehr raha he.

Iqbal was asked about the imamat....

Iqbal kehta he k Allah aapko meri terha sahib e asraar krey yani in chupey hoey razo ko janney vala bnaey in se parda uthaey...................isi nisbat se Allama kehtey hain "zahir ki aankh se na tamasha krey koi....ho daikhna to deda e dill wah krey koi"

phir aik nishani btatey hain k vo aapko hazir o maujood se bezaar krey.............

is me hazir kia he maujood kia he kionkey hazir ore majood ilahida ilahida use hoey hain to iska matlab jo maujood hain vo hazir nhi............In my understanding by hazir Allama means dunya and by maujood Allama means uqba.........

so the imam should make you not interested in dunya and uqba............in short jo aap k dil se dunya ki tanana ore jannat ki tanna hi nikal de................
ye kaisey ho ga vo aapko vo jalwa e Kibriya dikhayey ga k aapko koi ore cheez pe qarar hi nhi aiey ga or zindagi aapkey liaey dushwaar ho jaey gee us se milney ki tarap main...........kionkey vo maut k baat mulakaat ho gee.
 

samar

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Charector of Imam according to Dr. Allama Iqbal

Alama Iqbal used the word "Imam" in the sense of a leader not somebody who has religious authority.

Only Prophets have religious authority. No Imam has religious authority, they can only base their fatwas based on Quraan and Hadeeth. Even Imam fatwa can be challenge if it is contrary to Quraan and Hadeeth.

pehli baat ye he bhai sahab imam musalmano ka musalman hi hoga koie hindu nhi.agr usey quran o hadyt ka hi nhi pata to phir baat krna hi fazool he koie argument banta hi nhi ye baat krney ka.
 

Baba jee

Councller (250+ posts)
Re: Charector of Imam according to Dr. Allama Iqbal

We simply asked did Iqbal's concepts of Imam matches with yours [Yes/No].

We ? Who do you represent? I am not answerable to you but bhai sahib,laykin kiyah karian moosu Imamat ka hay. Janaab humari kiyah majaal kay Imamat kay maani mian tehreef karian. Mera Imamat kay baray mian wohi tasswar hay jo Allah Subhana wa Tallah nay Quran aur apnay Nabi pbuh kay zareeyeh Muslamaano ko bataya hay.Rahi baat Allama Iqbal ki tu Janab-e-Man, Iqbal tu Imamat ka ashiq tha aur uss ki sooch aur tasswar -e- Imamat ko samajnay kay liyah aik puri omar darkaar hay!!!!!!!!!!!!


 

riverblue

MPA (400+ posts)
Because Islam is a perfect religion, Quran is perfect, the Prophet saw is perfect and his sunnat/shariat is perfect, thus the preservers and protectors of this religion must be perfect in every way, a man we term as an Imam.
 

Muslim1

Banned
Re: Charector of Imam according to Dr. Allama Iqbal

pehli baat ye he bhai sahab imam musalmano ka musalman hi hoga koie hindu nhi.agr usey quran o hadyt ka hi nhi pata to phir baat krna hi fazool he koie argument banta hi nhi ye baat krney ka.

We must respect all the great scholars of Islam, including the four Imaams, Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Shafi, Imam Hanbal and Imam Malik (may Allah be pleased with them all). They were great scholars and may Allah reward them for their research and hard work (Aameen).

All the four great Imams said that if any of their Fatwas or teachings contradict Allah’s word, i.e. the Qur’an, or the sayings of the Prophet (pbuh) i.e. authentic Hadith, then that particulars Fatwa of theirs should be rejected, and the Sunnah of the Prophet should be followed.

References:

a.Eeqaadh al-Himam, Al Fulaanee (Imam Abu Hanifa)

b.Al-Majmoo’ of an-Nawawee (1/63) (Imam Shafi)

c.Jaami ‘Bayan al-Ilm, Ibn Abdul-Barr (Imam Malik)

d.Eeqaadh al-Himam (Imam Hanbal)
 

atensari

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Re: Charector of Imam according to Dr. Allama Iqbal

We ? Who do you represent? I am not answerable to you but bhai sahib,laykin kiyah karian moosu Imamat ka hay. Janaab humari kiyah majaal kay Imamat kay maani mian tehreef karian. Mera Imamat kay baray mian wohi tasswar hay jo Allah Subhana wa Tallah nay Quran aur apnay Nabi pbuh kay zareeyeh Muslamaano ko bataya hay.Rahi baat Allama Iqbal ki tu Janab-e-Man, Iqbal tu Imamat ka ashiq tha aur uss ki sooch aur tasswar -e- Imamat ko samajnay kay liyah aik puri omar darkaar hay!!!!!!!!!!!!

I did not asked what Iqbal's concept of Imamat is, my question was does it match with yours or not?