Cairo Massacre - by Robert Fisk

Bani Adam

Senator (1k+ posts)
Cairo massacre: After today, what Muslim will ever trust the ballot box again?

This marks a tragic turning point, from which it will take Egypt years to recover

Robert Fisk
Wednesday 14 August 2013
injured.jpg


The Egyptian crucible has broken. The unity of Egypt that all-embracing, patriotic, essential glue that has bound the nation together since the overthrow of the monarchy in 1952 and the rule of Nasser has melted amid the massacres, gun battles and fury of yesterdays suppression of the Muslim Brotherhood.

A hundred dead 200, 300 martyrs makes no difference to the outcome: for millions of Egyptians, the path of democracy has been torn up amid live fire and brutality. What Muslim seeking a state based on his or her religion will ever trust the ballot box again?

This is the real story of todays bloodbath. Who can be surprised that some Muslim Brotherhood supporters were wielding Kalashnikovs on the streets of Cairo? Or that supporters of the army and its interim government in middle-class areas of the capital, no less have seized their weapons or produced their own and started shooting back. This is not Brotherhood vs army, though that is how our Western statesmen will mendaciously try to portray this tragedy. Todays violence has created a cruel division within Egyptian society that will take years to heal; between leftists and secularists and Christian Copts and Sunni Muslim villagers, between people and police, between Brotherhood and army. That is why Mohamed el-Baradei resigned tonight. The burning of churches was an inevitable corollary of this terrible business.

In Algeria in 1992, in Cairo in 2013 and who knows what happens in Tunisia in the coming weeks and months? Muslims who won power, fairly and democratically through the common vote, have been hurled from power. And who can forget our vicious siege of Gaza when Palestinians voted again democratically for Hamas? No matter how many mistakes the Brotherhood made in Egypt no matter how promiscuous or fatuous their rule the democratically elected president Mohamed Morsi was overthrown by the army. It was a coup, and John McCain was right to use that word.


The Brotherhood, of course, should long ago have curbed its amour propre and tried to keep within the shell of the pseudo-democracy that the army permitted in Egypt not because it was fair or acceptable or just, but because the alternative was bound to be a return to clandestinity, to midnight arrests and torture and martyrdom. This has been the historical role of the Brotherhood with periods of shameful collaboration with British occupiers and Egyptian military dictators and a return to the darkness suggests only two outcomes: that the Brotherhood will be extinguished in violence, or will succeed at some far distant date heaven spare Egypt such a fate in creating an Islamist autocracy.


The pundits went about their poisonous work today before the first corpse was in its grave. Can Egypt avoid a civil war? Will the terrorist Brotherhood be wiped out by the loyal army? What about those who demonstrated before Morsis overthrow? Tony Blair was only one of those who talked of impending chaos in bestowing their support on General Abdul-Fattah al-Sisi. Every violent incident in Sinai, every gun in the hands of the Muslim Brotherhood will now be used to persuade the world that the organisation far from being a poorly armed but well-organised Islamist movement was the right arm of al-Qaida.


History may take a different view. It will certainly be hard to explain how many thousands yes, perhaps millions of educated, liberal Egyptians continued to give their wholehearted support to the general who spent much time after the overthrow of Mubarak justifying the armys virginity tests of female protesters in Tahrir Square. Al-Sisi will come under much scrutiny in the coming days; he was always reputedly sympathetic to the Brotherhood, although this idea may have been provoked by his wifes wearing of the niqab. Andmany of the middle-class intellectuals who have thrown their support behind the army will have to squeeze their consciences into a bottle to accommodate future events.


Could Nobel Prize-holder and nuclear expert Mohamed el-Baradei, the most famous personality in Western eyes, but not in Egyptian - in the interim government, whose social outlook and integrity looked frighteningly at odds with his governments actions today, have stayed in power? Of course not.
He had to go, for he never intended such an outcome to his political power gamble when he agreed to prop up the armys choice of ministers after last months coup. But the coterie of writers and artists who insisted on regarding the coup as just another stage in the revolution of 2011 will - after the blood and el-Baradeis resignation have to use some pretty anguished linguistics to escape moral blame for these events.


Stand by, of course, for the usual jargon questions. Does this mean the end of political Islam? For the moment, certainly; the Brotherhood is in no mood to try any more experiments in democracy a refusal which is the immediate danger in Egypt. For without freedom, there is violence. Will Egypt turn into another Syria? Unlikely. Egypt is neither a sectarian state it never has been, even with 10 per cent of its people Christian nor an inherently violent one. It never experienced the savagery of Algerian uprisings against the French, or Syrian, Lebanese and Palestinian insurgencies against both the British and the French. But ghosts aplenty will hang their heads in shame today; that great revolutionary lawyer of the 1919 rising, for example, Saad Zaghloul. And General Muhammad Neguib whose 1952 revolutionary tracts read so much like the demands of the people of Tahrir in 2011.


But yes, something died in Egypt today. Not the revolution, for across the Arab world the integrity of ownership of people demanding that they, not their leaders, own their own country remains, however bloodstained. Innocence died, of course, as it does after every revolution. No, what expired today was the idea that Egypt was the everlasting mother of the Arab nation, the nationalist ideal, the purity of history in which Egypt regarded all her people as her children. For the Brotherhood victims today along with the police and pro-government supporters were also children of Egypt. And no one said so. They had become the terrorists, the enemy of the people. That is Egypts new heritage.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-ever-trust-the-ballot-box-again-8762021.html
 

Petrolhead

Minister (2k+ posts)
Thanks for sharing. Always good to read Robert Fisk's opinions on the developments taking place in the Middle East. This article clearly exposes that Morsi was overthrown because he belonged to an ISLAMIST organisation, DOES NOT MATTER that he was a DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED PRESIDENT.

What Egypt again proves is that West (especially the US and UK) are not against dictatorships. What they are against is anything which hints at bringing ISLAM INTO POLITICS.

Sadly people like me can't do anything. Regardless of what West supports, it's MUSLIMS CUTTING MUSLIMS, whether it's Egypt, Syria or Pakistan.

On the other side look at how peacefully the English, French and Germans; and the Americans and Canadians are living together.

Zaalimon per Allah SWT ki l@n@t!
 

shassan655

Senator (1k+ posts)
I have always regarded Robert Fisk in high regard. You all should listen to his interviews on youtube. It's really an eye opener. My prayer's are with the people who lost their lives in Egypt. No matter what the count was. Tragic truth is Muslims killed Muslims. May Allah guide us ..we on the other hand have destroyed the muslim brotherhood concept and I am saying this with my head bowed down. Regards...
 

shassan655

Senator (1k+ posts)
Thanks for sharing. Always good to read Robert Fisk's opinions on the developments taking place in the Middle East. This article clearly exposes that Morsi was overthrown because he belonged to an ISLAMIST organisation, DOES NOT MATTER that he was a DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED PRESIDENT.

What Egypt again proves is that West (especially the US and UK) are not against dictatorships. What they are against is anything which hints at bringing ISLAM INTO POLITICS.

Sadly people like me can't do anything. Regardless of what West supports, it's MUSLIMS CUTTING MUSLIMS, whether it's Egypt, Syria or Pakistan.

On the other side look at how peacefully the English, French and Germans; and the Americans and Canadians are living together.

Zaalimon per Allah SWT ki l@n@t!


Thanks for your comment. You have very rightly pointed out the reasoning, couldn't agree more with it. Nicely put. May Allah guide us otherwise we are doomed.
 

Exiled-Pakistani

Minister (2k+ posts)
Pakistan needs moral balls to do such an act i.e. kicking out Egyptian ambassador. Pakistani government itself commits acts of mass murder of school children, torture, disappearance of its citizens on daily basis. They don't have moral legs to stand on.

The real shame is that the concept of Human Rights is ridiculed even by the educated people in Pakistan. There is an overwhelming consensus in Pakistan that people in Pakistan are just cattle and a dandda is required to keep them in line. (Laholwila quwat) As a matter of fact Pakistani people have no right to express their moral outrage on what is happening in Egypt.

Kicked out Egypt Ambassador from Pakistan, until they reinstate their democratic elected president.
 

shaikh

Minister (2k+ posts)
Robert Fisk must have been writing for a long time but his articles were always eagerly read by me as they

appeared in the then new British newspaper "The independent". He can be regarding middle east categorized

with another younger correspondent Christiane Amanpour as source of good information , often reliable .


Was he not the same who was manhandled here ? some years back ... some incident...
 

hrbhatti

MPA (400+ posts)
hum 3years egypt mein rahay hain.itni peace tha.everything was fine.humari daughter b egypt mein paida ho v thi.itni acha time hum nay wayan daika hay.egyptians ab itnay araam say nahi baitay gay.public ab army say tang a chuki hay .Allah is america or isreal ko hidayaat day ya apnay pass bulay lay.jab tak egypt mein peace tha in ki ko chay tha.or yo jo baygharat saudi or jinty oil ki maar hah jin countries ko.in ko egypt mein morasi pasand nahi tha.
 

janijoker

Minister (2k+ posts)
14 August ke massacre se West ki munafqat aur Muslim dushmni khul ke saamne aa gayi hai...Syria mein yeh Jihadi groups ko finance aur support kar rahe hain sirf is liye ke Bashar Assad Anti US aur Anti Israel hai..doosri janib 1 democraticly elected govt ko coup ke zariya sirf is liye khatam karaya gaya ke yeh Anti Israel hai...yeh massacre Egypt ki recent history mein bad tareen Qatal e aam record kia gaya hai....1 analyst ka kehna hai ke Egypt ki army DOGS of ISRAEL hain...
 

Bani Adam

Senator (1k+ posts)
Robert Fisk must have been writing for a long time but his articles were always eagerly read by me as they

appeared in the then new British newspaper "The independent". He can be regarding middle east categorized

with another younger correspondent Christiane Amanpour as source of good information , often reliable .

Was he not the same who was manhandled here ? some years back ... some incident...

You're right shaikh sb; he's been based in Beirut since early 1970s, speaks Arabic, has a long list to his credit - considered by many as one of the most objective commentators on the Muslim World. He probably also returned his dad's VC in protest against the UK's role in the Iraq War. Academically, he's a PhD from the Trinity College.

And yes, he was attacked and beaten by the Afghan refugees near Kila Abdullah in 2001 (at the start of the Afghan War).
 

auqab

Minister (2k+ posts)
Muslim will ever trust the ballot box again?

Must read, for all MUSLIMS!

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-ever-trust-the-ballot-box-again-8762021.html

"...A hundred dead 200, 300 martyrs makes no difference to the outcome: [HI]for millions of Egyptians, the path of democracy has been torn up amid live fire and brutality. What Muslim seeking a state based on his or her religion will ever trust the ballot box again?[/HI]"

"....This is not Brotherhood vs army, though that is how our Western statesmen will mendaciously try to portray this tragedy. Todays violence has created a cruel division within Egyptian society that will take years to heal; between leftists and secularists and Christian Copts and Sunni Muslim villagers, between people and police, between Brotherhood and army....."

"[HI]In Algeria in 1992, in Cairo in 2013 and who knows what happens in Tunisia in the coming weeks and months? Muslims who won power, fairly and democratically through the common vote, have been hurled from power. And who can forget our vicious siege of Gaza when Palestinians voted again democratically for Hamas? No matter how many mistakes the Brotherhood made in Egypt no matter how promiscuous or fatuous their rule the democratically elected president Mohamed Morsi was overthrown by the army. It was a coup, and John McCain was right to use that word."[/HI]

"The Brotherhood, of course, should long ago have curbed its amour propre and tried to keep within the shell of the pseudo-democracy that the army permitted in Egypt not because it was fair or acceptable or just, but because the alternative was bound to be a return to clandestinity, to midnight arrests and torture and martyrdom. This has been the historical role of the Brotherhood ...."

""History may take a different view. It will certainly be hard to explain how many thousands yes, perhaps millions of educated, liberal Egyptians continued to give their wholehearted support to the general who spent much time after the overthrow of Mubarak justifying the armys virginity tests of female protesters in Tahrir Square. Al-Sisi will come under much scrutiny in the coming days; he was always reputedly sympathetic to the Brotherhood, although this idea may have been provoked by his wifes wearing of the niqab. And many of the middle-class intellectuals who have thrown their support behind the army will have to squeeze their consciences into a bottle to accommodate future events."

"[HI]Could Nobel Prize-holder and nuclear expert Mohamed el-Baradei, the most famous personality in Western eyes, but not in Egyptian - in the interim government, whose social outlook and integrity looked frighteningly at odds with his governments actions today, have stayed in power? Of course not.[/HI] He had to go, for he never intended such an outcome to his political power gamble when he agreed to prop up the armys choice of ministers after last months coup. [HI]But the coterie of writers and artists who insisted on regarding the coup as just another stage in the revolution of 2011 will - after the blood and el-Baradeis resignation have to use some pretty anguished linguistics to escape moral blame for these events[/HI]."

"...[HI]For the Brotherhood victims today along with the police and pro-government supporters were also children of Egypt. And no one said so. They had become the terrorists, the enemy of the people. That is Egypts new heritage.[/HI] "
 

atensari

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Re: Muslim will ever trust the ballot box again?

پاکستانی جمہوریت پسند سینہ تان کر کہتے تھے "عوام نے الیکشن میں مذہبی جماعتوں کو مسترد کر دیا". اب یہ بہانہ بھی گیا. ترکی میں فوج نے منتخب مذہب پسندوں کے ساتھ جو کچھ کیا وہ بھی یاد ہے ذرا ذرا
 

TONIC

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Muslim will ever trust the ballot box again?

Yeah why not.....we are full of Morons....any doubt on that!!!
 

pkpatriot

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Muslim will ever trust the ballot box again?

This Form of Democracy is Just a foreign Agenda...
 

Amna Rizvi

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Muslim will ever trust the ballot box again?

More than 3000 dead in egypt. They capture old Pakistani's and parade them as terrorists! Shoot innocent protestors whose hands are raised in the air, and claim the innocent people dying are the terrorists!!

What is the difference between Israeli Army and Egypt? Egypt kills its own people!

Democracy.. hahaa, that is just BS.. USA doesnt want democracy! They are the ones supporting egyptian army AGAINST democracy!
 

desicad

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Muslim will ever trust the ballot box again?

More than 3000 dead in egypt. They capture old Pakistani's and parade them as terrorists! Shoot innocent protestors whose hands are raised in the air, and claim the innocent people dying are the terrorists!!

What is the difference between Israeli Army and Egypt? Egypt kills its own people!

Democracy.. hahaa, that is just BS.. USA doesnt want democracy! They are the ones supporting egyptian army AGAINST democracy!
how you know US is supporting egyptian army?..........have they declared their support or is it blame US for anything wrong happening in the muslim world?............
 

Amna Rizvi

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Muslim will ever trust the ballot box again?

how you know US is supporting egyptian army?..........have they declared their support or is it blame US for anything wrong happening in the muslim world?............

read sisi's interview: He said US fully supported him against MB.
Also, US hasn't stopped Egypt Military's 1.3 billion $ aid
And US still says it was NOT a coup!!
Besides, we all know US hates MB