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Lets be realistic, even if we agree what you saying army is corrupt, lets count the benefit of army.
protecting your country inside n outside
every day they die fighting for it
if there is natural disaster. you rely 100% on army to help you out.
if there is elections you need army
mostly LBE held under army rule.. empowering the real people
if there was no army, india would have treat you like kasur kids...
do you doubt people love for army is only because they lie.... can you please mention Politicians achievements and anything they done for public interest.
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Ali Farooq
Senator (1k+ posts)
تو باقی جو پچاس فیصد بجٹ بچتا ہے وہ کونسا عوام کے اوپر خرچ ہوتا ہے۔ ہمیں اِس سے کیا فرق پڑتا ہے کہ بجٹ آرمی کھا جائے یا سیاست دان۔ ہمیں تو کوئی فائدہ نہیں۔ اور رہی بات کے نواز کیوں بجٹ کم نہیں کرتا تو بھائی اگر یہ آرمی کو لگام نہیں دے سکتا تو پھر وزیر اعظم کیوں بنا پھرتا ہے۔ اگر اِس سے یہ کام نہیں ہوسکتا تو نہ بنے وزیر اعظم۔ یہ حکومت میں آتا ہی اِس لئے ہے تاکہ ملک کی دولت لوٹ سکے۔ فوج سے پنگا لے کر اپنی روزی پر لات کیوں مارے بھلا۔ اگر یہ عوام کے مینڈیٹ سے آتااور اِسے پتہ ہوتا کہ عوام اِس کے ساتھ ہے اور یہ ملک کی دولت کھانے کے بجائے ملک کی خدمت کرنے آتا تو پھر اِسے کسی چیز کا ڈر نہ ہوتا۔ فوج کے گلے میں پٹہ ڈالنا مشکل نہیں۔ ترکی کی مثال آپ کے سامنے ہے۔
I salute Army Jawans, because they put their lives on the line for us. They follow orders. I also agree that we need a armed services like every other country on this earth. But stop looking at every issue from or security's point of view. We need an army that is accountable, we need an army under our constitution, army that respects and follows civilian elected leadership and works under it, not above it.
Now to your claims for benefit of the army:
protecting your country inside n outside
Historically incorrect. Promoting sectarianism, hatred based on religion, ethnic political violence was done by our military. These are all proven facts, General Zia's dictatorship, and General Musharraf. Pakistan army didn't protect Pakistan's borders in 71, or kargil incursion, or Abottabad.
every day they die fighting for it
True. I don't deny this
if there is natural disaster. you rely 100% on army to help you out.
They are a government institution, can be called in for help. They have resources to do it, and to reach far flung areas. U.S army also helped people in Katrina hurricane, race riots etc.
if there is elections you need army
Yes to provide safe environment for elections. Not to manipulate these elections. I.E IJI, General Ehtasham Zamir, General Mirza Aslam Beg, etc.
mostly LBE held under army rule.. empowering the real people
Thats a tactic used by most dictators who want to look democrat.
if there was no army, india would have treat you like kasur kids...
BS. India is often used by our army as an excuse to justify their illegal, unlawful actions. Whats sad is, the whole purpose of our army's existence is India. They have lied and lied and lied repeatedly to fool us into hating India. By this logic USA would also treat Canada like Kasur kids, and Canadian army doesn't even come close to US. This fear mongering is used to keep people illiterate, and keep selling war. India is not our enemy. They have never attacked us, but we have.
do you doubt people love for army is only because they lie.... can you please mention Politicians achievements and anything they done for public interest.
There you go again. Bashing politicians again. If people love army, then our army should form a political party and go into elections. People have always rejected army rule. In fact people have hated army rule. No civilized country allows its armed forces to break constitution, and rule over them. Corruption is often used as an excuse against politicians to justify army rule. Our elected PM is removed from his position, they are exiled, put in jails for years, hung. But our army always get away with the most heinous crimes. Every time you bring up your hatred to politicians, I will rip this army to shreds.
I will propose a solution.
Army should ask parliament to form committees that specifically hold the institution accountable, military leaders are called in for questioning, seek nomination for top posts.
Entire defense budget should be debated, discussed, and audited. This includes discretionary and non discretionary spending.
who is a threat? who is a friend? who we should talk to? who we should fight? are all important decisions and involve more than just the military's perspective. Army should give input, but ultimate decision must be made in the parliament and the Prime minister.
Foreign policy that is made by our elected leadership, not the army.
Trial of Musharraf under article 6. No general in future dare to do what the generals in the past have done.
Army should ask parliament to form committees that specifically hold the institution accountable, military leaders are called in for questioning, seek nomination for top posts.
Entire defense budget should be debated, discussed, and audited. This includes discretionary and non discretionary spending.
who is a threat? who is a friend? who we should talk to? who we should fight? are all important decisions and involve more than just the military's perspective. Army should give input, but ultimate decision must be made in the parliament and the Prime minister.
Foreign policy that is made by our elected leadership, not the army.
Trial of Musharraf under article 6. No general in future dare to do what the generals in the past have done.
Pakistan Army is not smarter or mightier than U.S army. But America's civilian leadership enjoys full control over its military force. Their first General, George Washington won their first war of independence and could have easily used that as an excuse for "Azeez Humwatno." He instead respected the constitution, and left the decision to civilian politicians. Never in their 200 year history, has their army violated the constitution despite many chances and many reasons. They had civil war, and country was facing deep problems during Abe Lincoln, General Ulysses S. Grant didn't do "Azeez Humwatno." You want to talk about India? they had a cold war with Russia, where the whole world was at the brink of nuclear apocalypse. Their Generals didn't do "Azeez Humwatno."
Saboo
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
O ji original documents to ghaib ho gaye hein jo Shamsul Hasan ki kar mein thay
aur photo copy aap manein gay nahin?...(bigsmile)
protecting your country inside n outside
Historically incorrect. Promoting sectarianism, hatred based on religion, ethnic political violence was done by our military. These are all proven facts, General Zia's dictatorship, and General Musharraf. Pakistan army didn't protect Pakistan's borders in 71, or kargil incursion, or Abottabad.
You must be referring to political parties, Anp,Mqm etc for ethnic political violence. As for losing 71 war, you don’t always win. Kargil we were winning until your great PM lay a fart. Did American army saved it country from 9/11 or pearl harbor attack.
every day they die fighting for it
True. I don't deny this
cause you can’t.
if there is natural disaster. you rely 100% on army to help you out.
They are a government institution, can be called in for help. They have resources to do it, and to reach far flung areas. U.S army also helped people in Katrina hurricane, race riots etc.
you didn’t read open eyes, I said rely 100% on army, means even if there is a small disaster you call army let alone big disasters.
if there is elections you need army
Yes to provide safe environment for elections. Not to manipulate these elections. I.E IJI, General Ehtasham Zamir, General Mirza Aslam Beg, etc.
have u seen army in any elections in Canada , uk, us or any other country ? means you cant run 1 institution without army
mostly LBE held under army rule.. empowering the real people
Thats a tactic used by most dictators who want to look democrat.
So why don’t democratic governments use these tactics to look show the real democracy.. dictators act like democratic n democrats act like dictators .. right, unfortunately this year they have conduct LBE on the order of SC. Shame isn’t it. Politicians need to be forced to implement democracy
if there was no army, india would have treat you like kasur kids...
BS. India is often used by our army as an excuse to justify their illegal, unlawful actions. Whats sad is, the whole purpose of our army's existence is India. They have lied and lied and lied repeatedly to fool us into hating India. By this logic USA would also treat Canada like Kasur kids, and Canadian army doesn't even come close to US. This fear mongering is used to keep people illiterate, and keep selling war. India is not our enemy. They have never attacked us, but we have.
Seriously.. india is not our emeny they never attacked us. Who attacked us in 65 n then 71… we only attacked them in kargil. so Get your facts right
do you doubt people love for army is only because they lie.... can you please mention Politicians achievements and anything they done for public interest.
There you go again. Bashing politicians again. If people love army, then our army should form a political party and go into elections. People have always rejected army rule. In fact people have hated army rule. No civilized country allows its armed forces to break constitution, and rule over them. Corruption is often used as an excuse against politicians to justify army rule. Our elected PM is removed from his position, they are exiled, put in jails for years, hung. But our army always get away with the most heinous crimes. Every time you bring up your hatred to politicians, I will rip this army to shreds.
Your are wrong. People love Army cause Army is doing what people wants. Don’t you think if you do good things people will Praise you…. If you act like Zardari you know what people will say…
So do you think Pakistan is a civilized country? It is in top corrupt countries in the world where every institution is full of corruption. Judiciary is the most corrupted as we haven’t seen it working. Civilization need its monsters to be hanged, if it cant then its law of jungle as we see nowadays in land of pure.
When you involve army into every single matters of government, your political fights, your failing economy, your security, economics terrorism. When You can’t satisfy your Political rivals n run to army chief begging for political solution. When politicians ruling Karachi for 30 years make a mess of it then my friend its their right to throw you away like a carrot.
You still didn’t answer my question… what are the achievements of politicians for public benefit.. did they made public life easy n gave them the basic needs of life health, security, education ?,
politicians n army both have corruption but who is giving back more thats the main question.if politicians have made institutions strong, army wouldn’t dare to deseat them.
You will rip this army to shreds… why don’t try in real instead of bn a keyboard warrior
Historically incorrect. Promoting sectarianism, hatred based on religion, ethnic political violence was done by our military. These are all proven facts, General Zia's dictatorship, and General Musharraf. Pakistan army didn't protect Pakistan's borders in 71, or kargil incursion, or Abottabad.
You must be referring to political parties, Anp,Mqm etc for ethnic political violence. As for losing 71 war, you don’t always win. Kargil we were winning until your great PM lay a fart. Did American army saved it country from 9/11 or pearl harbor attack.
every day they die fighting for it
True. I don't deny this
cause you can’t.
if there is natural disaster. you rely 100% on army to help you out.
They are a government institution, can be called in for help. They have resources to do it, and to reach far flung areas. U.S army also helped people in Katrina hurricane, race riots etc.
you didn’t read open eyes, I said rely 100% on army, means even if there is a small disaster you call army let alone big disasters.
if there is elections you need army
Yes to provide safe environment for elections. Not to manipulate these elections. I.E IJI, General Ehtasham Zamir, General Mirza Aslam Beg, etc.
have u seen army in any elections in Canada , uk, us or any other country ? means you cant run 1 institution without army
mostly LBE held under army rule.. empowering the real people
Thats a tactic used by most dictators who want to look democrat.
So why don’t democratic governments use these tactics to look show the real democracy.. dictators act like democratic n democrats act like dictators .. right, unfortunately this year they have conduct LBE on the order of SC. Shame isn’t it. Politicians need to be forced to implement democracy
if there was no army, india would have treat you like kasur kids...
BS. India is often used by our army as an excuse to justify their illegal, unlawful actions. Whats sad is, the whole purpose of our army's existence is India. They have lied and lied and lied repeatedly to fool us into hating India. By this logic USA would also treat Canada like Kasur kids, and Canadian army doesn't even come close to US. This fear mongering is used to keep people illiterate, and keep selling war. India is not our enemy. They have never attacked us, but we have.
Seriously.. india is not our emeny they never attacked us. Who attacked us in 65 n then 71… we only attacked them in kargil. so Get your facts right
do you doubt people love for army is only because they lie.... can you please mention Politicians achievements and anything they done for public interest.
There you go again. Bashing politicians again. If people love army, then our army should form a political party and go into elections. People have always rejected army rule. In fact people have hated army rule. No civilized country allows its armed forces to break constitution, and rule over them. Corruption is often used as an excuse against politicians to justify army rule. Our elected PM is removed from his position, they are exiled, put in jails for years, hung. But our army always get away with the most heinous crimes. Every time you bring up your hatred to politicians, I will rip this army to shreds.
Your are wrong. People love Army cause Army is doing what people wants. Don’t you think if you do good things people will Praise you…. If you act like Zardari you know what people will say…
So do you think Pakistan is a civilized country? It is in top corrupt countries in the world where every institution is full of corruption. Judiciary is the most corrupted as we haven’t seen it working. Civilization need its monsters to be hanged, if it cant then its law of jungle as we see nowadays in land of pure.
When you involve army into every single matters of government, your political fights, your failing economy, your security, economics terrorism. When You can’t satisfy your Political rivals n run to army chief begging for political solution. When politicians ruling Karachi for 30 years make a mess of it then my friend its their right to throw you away like a carrot.
You still didn’t answer my question… what are the achievements of politicians for public benefit.. did they made public life easy n gave them the basic needs of life health, security, education ?,
politicians n army both have corruption but who is giving back more thats the main question.if politicians have made institutions strong, army wouldn’t dare to deseat them.
You will rip this army to shreds… why don’t try in real instead of bn a keyboard warrior
What is your source of information? Because the history I read is much different from yours. Se before we even begin, we need to disclose where we get our information from. Your point about 65, kargil are factually incorrect.
hahaha, aap Zaradri ke khilaaf documents laa nahin sakte. Tau mein fauj jo ghaple kerti hai uske documents kahaan se laon. Mere paas tau koi fauj nahin hai.
بھائی لوگوں آپ کس بات میں الجھ گئے بات تو یہی سیکھنے کی ہے نا ہمارے لوگوں کے لیے کہ جب اپنی ضرورت سے کہیں زیادہ ہو جائے تو ضرورت مندوں کو دیا جائے، یہاں تو لوگ باز ہی نہیں آتے ایسا لگتا ہے جیسے سب کو نشہ ہو گیا ہے کرپشن کر کے پیسہ جمع کرنے کا۔
1947-48 65 n kargil war was a result of kashmir conflict which is going on from day 1 both countries engage from time to time but the full scale invasion was done by india in 65 not pakistan... by the way topic wasnt of war, so cant you please give me a good reason for your argument.
mostly LBE held under army rule.. empowering the real people
Thats a tactic used by most dictators who want to look democrat.
So why don’t democratic governments use these tactics to show the real democracy.. dictators act like democratic n democrats act like dictators .. right, unfortunately this year they have to conduct LBE on the order of SC. Shame isn’t it. Politicians need to be forced to implement democracy
waiting for your reasonable answer
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Again, you didn't disclose your source of information. Be it Kargil, be it 65, be it 71. And do you honestly believe that politicians run Pakistan? Cuz I think there is another elephant in the room goes by the name of army. They have ruled Pakistan since much of its inception, unless you think that this fact is also a propaganda.
P4kistani
Minister (2k+ posts)
khattak001
MPA (400+ posts)
Bilal Qutab Praising Bill Gates & Mark Zuckerberg To Help Peoples
