A Tribute to Mard e Momin Zia Ul Haq

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
First of All since you do not believe that Hazrat Eesa As is dead soRead1. Haqiqat ul Wahi page 95 to 130and2. Maseeh Hindustaan mein page 1 to 130.You will findA. Evidence from Bible that Hazrat Eesa As did not die on cross neither was ascended to heaven alive or dead.B. Evidence from Budhmatt religious books about Death of Hazrat Eesa AsC. Evidence from Books of History and historians about the migration of Hazrat Eesa As to Kashmir and his dead there.D. Evidence from Verses of Quran & Ahadees that Maseeh e Nasri ie Hazrat Eesa As is dead and he died before Prophet Mohammad Pbuh.
I don't care about A B or C since those scriptures are corrupted or written by men themselves so they hold no importance. If you are kind enough to give me reference to pages which give reference only to Quranic Ayahs and Hadiths. I will gladly read them. Now read the answer to your other question.
No Ahmadi is kicked out of the Jamaat because he does not pay chanda, pays less chanda or is unable to pay chanda becahse of Finamcial constraints.
What if an Ahmediis rich but does not want to pay the chanda and only the 2% zakat and that also not to the jamat but to someone else ?
Secondly Laazmi chandajaat's are two Chandaaz1. Hissa Aamad which is 1/16 of your monthly pay or 1/10 of your monthly pay if you have done waseehat.Now i have willfully by my owm consent done waseehat so i pay 1/10th.2. Chanda Jalsa Salana which is 0.8333 % of your monthly pay.
No that is incorrect
app_zpsrq8qizk4.jpg
Its well over 30% as mentioned aboved. And when its called Chanda Laazmi, that needs no explaination at all as to what it is. I've read of people being hounded by calls after calls asking them to pay more when they have already paid their supposedly laazmi chandas, which I reiterate is not "laazmi" or fard in Islam, people turning up at their door steps asking money for this ahmedi fund and that. Literally like the Bhatta mafia in Pakistan.

Other than this we pay Zakaat aswell in %age prescribed by He Pbuh. Similarly we give Sadqa aswell and Fitrana Fidya too and we do Ibrahimic sacrifice on Eid ul Adha aswell.Apart from different Jamaat's are given targets worldwide under the categories of1. Tehreek e Jadeed2. Waqf e Jadeed3. Syedana Bilal Fund4. Maryum Shaadi Fund5. Taleemi fund6. Ansarullah Chanda7. Lajna Chanda8. Khuddaam Chanda9. Yaksad Yatama10. Tahir Homeo Pathic11. Fazl e Umar fund12. Mta fund.

See this is also actually one of the things which would turn someone like me really off. The whole beauty of Islam is its not your typical organized religion. I don't need any peer fakir, aalim aur mullah. The Quran and Hadith along with God given common sense is enough for me to be Muslim. I'm not forced to pay for Masjids, schools etc etc. Mirzaiyat on the other hand has this aspect of organized religion church or jamat in your case very deeply ingrained in it. That without the jamat an Ahmedi is nothing and he/she has keep funding it.

Islam on the other hand only the obligatory 2% and that too to his/her own will on who they feel is most deserving.

And even after all that forced chandas, I don't have the latest figures nor could I find them online ( so much for financial transparency ! ) but in 2010 their total collection was 5.6 million pounds from their alleged 200 million or so followers even after such heavy forced chandas from them and every second khutba from your Khalifa is a reminder to pay up.

Even if every Ahamadi paid 1 gbp it would be atleast 200 million pounds, this it proves the figure given of Ahmedis in the world is nothing but a fabrication, every thought about that, why it is so ?

While Shaukat Khanam got more than 4 times that amount without resorting to such pressure tactics and extortion. And this amount is excluding peoples Zakat donations which is almost the same amount. Not to mention the Edhi Foundation too.

We all do it wilfully. 99.9 % of us earn our livelihood by halaal means Alhamdoulillah and We do this financial sacrifice for all the noble, holy and humanitarian works our Jamaat is doing worthwide for Islam.

Correction not for Islam but Ahmadiyat. We all know that is the case, they make no effort to hide it, infact promote it that all of this is from Ahamdiyat and what a wonderful cult it is. Although no good deed should be criticized but its a well know way to gain followers specially among the poor and the illiterate population. A tactic first developed by Christian missionaries and now your missionaries are doing the same. And this point is qualified by your own statement below

Bohat se logoun ko takleef hai k hum iss paisay se dunya mein jo kaam ker rahay hein aor Saeed fitrat loug hamara kirdaar aor ka dekh k Ahmadiat mein daakhil horahah hein alhamdoulillah.


.
Logoun k Propaganda ko 99.9 % Ahmadi Musalmaan jooti ki noke pe rakhtay hein. Hum fully waqif hein k Hazur Ayadullah Taala kaham rehtay hein unki kya zindagi hai. Unka Rehun Sehun hum se dhakka chupa hua nai hai.

Aap se dhaka chupa nahi hai to hum ko bi bataien dein

Hum nai chahtay k Hazur ko Pakistan mein jhootay cases mein Jail mein rehna perhay ya Unn ko Shaheed kiya jaey. Ya Ulema e Soo Gustakhee k jhootay muqadmoun aor Murtadd k fatwoun mein Jaali Aashiq e Rasool k through unka khoon bahaein. So hijrat ker k bilkul theek kiya hai. Jub tak Haalaat iss Nehaj pe nai thay tou 3 Khalifa Pakistan mein rahay. Bilkul theek hijrat ki khalifa Raabay Rt aor Khalifa Khaamis Ayadullah taala benaslil aziz ne . . .

Lekin app ke huzoor aur Jaamat ne maghrabhi duniya mein rehe ke udhar ke kanoon khoob apne mukhalifon ke khilaf istimal kiye hain, aur apnay aap ko mazloom dikha ke unko bewaqoof bi banaya hai aur un ke qanoon se bohat faida bhi uthaya hai. For example the corruption of the Jamat, taking large donations and issuing them good certificates for their asylum applications and those who don't donate a large sum a not so good certificate.

http://www.pi-news.net/2014/11/korrupte-ahmadiyya-im-asylbusiness/

translation of the article

[FONT=&quot]The Federal Office for Migration and Refugees is reviewing allegations against the Muslim Ahmadiyya community. These include human smuggling and dubious credentials, according to ARD magazine [/FONT]Report Mainz[FONT=&quot] and [/FONT]Der Spiegel[FONT=&quot], says a spokeswoman for the authority.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Certificates are required in the asylum procedure and are often issued after large donations payments, the reports say, citing current and former members of the Islamic reform movement (islamischen Reformbewegung).[/FONT]
Those who do not provide the donations do not receive positive certificates.......Active members therefore often have a good chance to be classified in Germany as asylum seekers. However, they have to prove that they are deeply rooted in their communities.
So they need community support in the process [to obtain positive certificates].

....

[FONT=Lucida Grande, Lucida Sans Unicode, Lucida Sans, Geneva, Verdana, sans-serif][/FONT]A case reported concerned a Pakistani, with the Ahmadiyya headquarters providing only an average testimony, even though he was in an honorary capacity in the Wiesbaden community. He had earlier donated 2100 to the community, but this was allegedly 900 euros less than originally agreed.[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][FONT=&quot]Now dismiss this also as propaganda and work of enemies of Mirzaiyat. Wonder what [/FONT][/FONT]enmity[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][FONT=&quot] the German media has with it though?[/FONT][/FONT]


Aap loug pehlay kehtay thay kHumein Tamaam funding Jews & Christian kertay hein. Aor uss paisay se hum tableegh ker rahay......edited to save space

I've read it but don't feel has any relevance to the topic at hand hence no reply

Aapko Ilm hai k Khalifa e Waqt kahan rehtay hein ? Nai aapko nai pata.

Nahi hai to aap bata do

Aor Aapko pata hai k Hamari Jamaat mein Unn Maooun k Sapoot zinda hein jo Tohfatann In love of Hazur ABA unko car gift kertay hein. Aap ko agar takleef hai tou rahay. Allah ne jisay maali kashaish di hai uski marzi. Mujhay b toufeeq millay gee mein b ye kerum ga. Aap kya Jaano Khilafat kya hoti hai.Jub 2010 mein Pakistan mein Lahore mein 95 ahmadi shaheed hogaey thay tou hum ne apni government se aik aana bhee nai liya aor unn tamaam khaandaanoun ki kafalat hum apne financial sacrifice se ker rahay hein. Agar aapko takleef hai tou rahay. Aap hamari Jaib ki hamaray paisay ki fikar na kerein. Aapko kyun Maroarh uth rahay hein ?Raaj Paal Hindu ne Jo Hazur Pbuh pe Ganday Ilzamaat lagaey, jo jo aeyrazaat Meeca ka sub se Aalim Abu Jehal kerta tha uss se kya Islam Ruk gaya khatam hogaya ?Aap loug b 127 saal se Hazrat Maseeh e Mouood As ki zaat pe, Tehreeraat pe, Khulafa k Character pe Aetrazaat ker ker k thaktay nai hein. Hazaaroun aetrazaat. Per agar Hazrat Maseeh e Mouood As ki jamaat ko unkay maan ne waaloun ko Aap ya aapkay Zameeni khuda 127 saal mein nai mita sakay na he iski growth ko rok sakay tou apne zameeni khudaoun se sawaal keejiye jinhoun ne budtareen persecution bhee ki, kaee khoon b kiye per ye jamaat khatam na hui. Phir Allah k aagay apne maathay ragrheeay sajdoun mein aor rou rou k sawaal keejiye k YaAllah Nabioun k Sardaar k mutaliq Nabooat ka Aap ne jo mayaar rakhna jaanchne ka Hazur Pbuh k liye aor unkay baad jo jo jhoota kaazib tha Musalima kazaab se le ker Alexander Dowee tal 29 k 29 ko Aap ne Nishaan e Ibrat bana diya aor unkay Naam leva wo kuch saal mein Safa e hasti se mita diya Surah e Haaqa k waada k aen mutaabiq aaj dunya mein koi unka maan ne waala nai. YaAllah Aap ne 127 saal mein Mirza Ghulam Ahmed As, Khulafa e Ahmadiat aor Ahmadioun ka wo haal kyun nai kiya agar ye Jhootay Kazaab Nabi k maan ne waalay hein.

Once again I feel this has no relevance to the topic at hand and just more cut and paste proselytizing and Mirzai propaganda hence no reply also. If you feel otherwise let me know and I will reply to it too.
 

SachGoee

Senator (1k+ posts)
I don't care about A B or C since those scriptures are corrupted or written by men themselves so they hold no importance. If you are kind enough to give me reference to pages which give reference only to Quranic Ayahs and Hadiths. I will gladly read them. Now read the answer to your other question.What if an Ahmediis rich but does not want to pay the chanda and only the 2% zakat and that also not to the jamat but to someone else ?No that is incorrect
app_zpsrq8qizk4.jpg
Its well over 30% as mentioned aboved. And when its called Chanda Laazmi, that needs no explaination at all as to what it is. I've read of people being hounded by calls after calls asking them to pay more when they have already paid their supposedly laazmi chandas, which I reiterate is not "laazmi" or fard in Islam, people turning up at their door steps asking money for this ahmedi fund and that. Literally like the Bhatta mafia in Pakistan.



See this is also actually one of the things which would turn someone like me really off. The whole beauty of Islam is its not your typical organized religion. I don't need any peer fakir, aalim aur mullah. The Quran and Hadith along with God given common sense is enough for me to be Muslim. I'm not forced to pay for Masjids, schools etc etc. Mirzaiyat on the other hand has this aspect of organized religion church or jamat in your case very deeply ingrained in it. That without the jamat an Ahmedi is nothing and he/she has keep funding it.

Islam on the other hand only the obligatory 2% and that too to his/her own will on who they feel is most deserving.

And even after all that forced chandas, I don't have the latest figures nor could I find them online ( so much for financial transparency ! ) but in 2010 their total collection was 5.6 million pounds from their alleged 200 million or so followers even after such heavy forced chandas from them and every second khutba from your Khalifa is a reminder to pay up.

Even if every Ahamadi paid 1 gbp it would be atleast 200 million pounds, this it proves the figure given of Ahmedis in the world is nothing but a fabrication, every thought about that, why it is so ?

While Shaukat Khanam got more than 4 times that amount without resorting to such pressure tactics and extortion. And this amount is excluding peoples Zakat donations which is almost the same amount. Not to mention the Edhi Foundation too.



Correction not for Islam but Ahmadiyat. We all know that is the case, they make no effort to hide it, infact promote it that all of this is from Ahamdiyat and what a wonderful cult it is. Although no good deed should be criticized but its a well know way to gain followers specially among the poor and the illiterate population. A tactic first developed by Christian missionaries and now your missionaries are doing the same. And this point is qualified by your own statement below




.

Aap se dhaka chupa nahi hai to hum ko bi bataien dein



Lekin app ke huzoor aur Jaamat ne maghrabhi duniya mein rehe ke udhar ke kanoon khoob apne mukhalifon ke khilaf istimal kiye hain, aur apnay aap ko mazloom dikha ke unko bewaqoof bi banaya hai aur un ke qanoon se bohat faida bhi uthaya hai. For example the corruption of the Jamat, taking large donations and issuing them good certificates for their asylum applications and those who don't donate a large sum a not so good certificate.

http://www.pi-news.net/2014/11/korrupte-ahmadiyya-im-asylbusiness/

translation of the article

[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][FONT=&quot]Now dismiss this also as propaganda and work of enemies of Mirzaiyat. Wonder what [/FONT][/FONT]enmity[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][FONT=&quot] the German media has with it though?[/FONT][/FONT]




I've read it but don't feel has any relevance to the topic at hand hence no reply



Nahi hai to aap bata do



Once again I feel this has no relevance to the topic at hand and just more cut and paste proselytizing and Mirzai propaganda hence no reply also. If you feel otherwise let me know and I will reply to it too.


I dont agree with what you have written. 99.9 % of us dont have takleef about the phone calls we get.

Extortion & Bhatta kahan jata hai all know very well. And all have to pay at gunpoint otherwise they life is at threat. So your example is quote absurd.

Jub Hazur Pbuh ne Islam k liye Maali jehaad ki appeal ki thee tou kon thay jo Ghar mein jo kuch tha ley aaey thay ? Kon thay jo ghar ka Aadha Maal le aaey thay ? Unhoun ne Choon Chaan nai ki. Us waqt bhee aap jesa aetraaz baaz tola tha.

I know where you are coming from. You are quoting those whose Akhraaj have been done from Jamaat because of their Khilaaf e Shareeat actions or those 0.01 % for whom either worldly life is more imp ie extrene greed of worldly money or those jinkay mutalliq islam says that wo eemaan laatay hein than ultay paoon phir jaatay hein. Aesoun k jhootay Propaganda se hamara na kbi kuch bigrha tha na bigrha hai.

There are only 2 laazmi chandajaat. No Ahmadi is expelled from jamaat if he is unable to pay chanda. Not even 1 such case in the history of Ahmadiat. And same is with Islam wrt Zakaat. No muslim is expelled of Islam if he does not pay Zakaat which is compulsory.


Despite All this Propaganda Machines this is what Allah SubhaanaAllah is giving us. So fight with Allah and further Argue with Allah and knock His door.


1. How and Why this Catholic Christian became Ahmadi Muslim ? He is telling.
He is Ahmadi Muslim now for ten years. Alhamdoulillah


https://youtu.be/u67cZlI76mY



2. How and why this Agnostic person from UK became Ahmadi Muslim. He tells his story of Allah's guidance aswell as what he found out after reading more than 10 books of Promised Messiah AS


https://youtu.be/5EqWoKmNczk



3. This person from Pakistan who became Ahmadi Muslim after He saw an event in 1974 in Pakistan when Mullah's burnt the home of an Ahmadi Muslim because they felt its necesaary to burn Mirzaee Qadiani Home and Properties to serve Islam. When His Sunni & Ahl e Hadees Maulana's could not justify their actions than Just by seeing the Zulm with his eyes and witnessing who the Mazloom was and who the Zaalim was this man became Ahmadi Muslim in 1974 and than by his Daawat e Lillah 26 people accepted Ahmadiat uptil 1993 and Now Alhamdoulillah there are 70 people from that area of Sialkot who are Ahmadi Muslim Alhamdoulillah.


https://youtu.be/aRvcwHz_O6c



4. Story of a Sharaabi Kabaabi Zaani financially Corrupt Police Officer who accepted Ahmadiat Islam after witnessing the Character and Knowledge of Ahmadi Muslim Prisoners in Jail who were prisoned for Blasphemy charges. How that DSP became Ahmadi Muslim & how just like Awaleen of 1500 years ago Ahmadiat transformed him where he stopped drinking, stopped doing Zana, stopped taking Bribe and how entering real Islam made him into a better human being and better Muslim. This is the change Ahmadiat brings in a person.


https://youtu.be/3HqXx2309VU



5. My Mother's Father became Ahmadi in 1940's when he was a Sunni Muslim in his 20's. He became Ahmadi after reading 20 plus books of Hazrat Maseeh e Mouood As at that time books were not banned.

While My Father's Grand Father became Ahmadi in 1903 after meeting Hazrat Maseeh e Mouood AS in person and reading his Teachings. Whereas My Father's great Grand Father from his maternal side was the first Arab to accept Ahmadiat. He was a Palestinian and was sitting in his fruit farm when a man came to meet him in 1928 and introduced himself as a Missionary from India and said that Imam Mehdi AS has come and has passed away. He started tellinh his claim but That Arab stopped him and said Di you have any picture of the claimant ? He said Yes. He showed him the picture and He said give me Bait forms. That Missionary said to him that I havent yet told you the claim and have just started my talk but that Pious Arab said look I had seen a Dream few years ago where Allah showed me this person and told me that He is Imam Mehdi of the time accept him and I was searching for him since many years. Now the picture you showed is exactly the same. He went home told His wife and 5 family members did Bait. Today Alhamdoulillah there is a Jamaat of 20,000 Palestinian Ahmadi Muslims in Palestine and about 10,000 who have migrated.


With every passing Day despite the persecution in Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, Indonesia, Algeria, Malaysia and in Few African Countries by the Mullahs whom He Pbuh called Ulema e Soo and the rubbish online Propaganda of Packets of Lies Our Eemaan is strengthening by the grace of Allah almightly. And our Jamaat is strengthening with every passing day by Allah's grace.


We need Billions of Rupees for the work Our Jamaat is doing Worldwide and We sacrifice Billions of Rupees from Our Income for this Noble and Holy Cause and we will keep on doing this Since our Last Breaths. Just to tell you wrt Tahir Heart Institute where Poor Non Ahmadi Muslims and Non Ahmadi's (85 % of Patients) get free Treatment whether its Angiography, Angioplasty or ByPass, The Annual Budget of the Hospital is in Billions. And without Money neither this Project can be successful nor the other 30 odd projects. In some countries we distribute 5 million Pumphlets every year. How much it costs to Print 5 million Pumplets ?
In Thar we have digged 230 Water Wells how much does that Cost ?
In Countries like Ghaana our One School has 15000 Students studying free because of the extreme poverty. How much it costs for laboratories, computers and Staff Pay ? We have built Our Mosques in the heart of European Cities how many Million Pounds is needed for building one Mosque ? ?


We are doing Jehaad Bil Qalam & Maali Jehaad to spread Real Islam and to serve Ailing Supressed Humanity along with doing Jehaad Bin Nafs by following Islam in its spirit to become a living example of Practicing Peaceful Muslims with Character and Deads of Muslims.

Aap loug Jehaad Bin Saif k Naam pe Terrorism ker rahay ho (Not All). Aor iss se Islam ka naam budnaam horaha dunya bhar mein aor 80 % se zayada Khoon Qalma Go musalmaanoun ka beh raha hai iss so called Jehaad Bin Saif k Naam pe. Jub k Hazur Pbuh ne kaha tha k Imam Mehdi jub aaey ga tou Talwaar k Jehaad ko suspend ker de ga aor Qalam aor Maal k jehaad ko tarweej de ga. So Wo aaey aor unhoun ne aesa he kiya aor jo jo unki umbrella k neechay wo aesa he ker raha.


Aap k jitne bhee Aeyrazaat hein Mazeed Jamaat e Ahmadiyya per ya Personalities per ya belief system per unkay liye Aap Program Rah e Huda pe live call kerein aor Aapko live jawaab milay ga. Ya Aap Faith matters program ko email kerein tou aapka sawaal adress hojaey ga. Ya letter likhein program Fiqa ee Masail, ya email Real Talk aapko jawabaat mil jaein ge har aap k aetraaz k. Alternatively aap Alislam.org, Real-Islam, muslim.org, Ahmadianswers.com pe jaa k har sawaal k aetraaz k jawabaat text, audio ya video form mein bhee perh, sunn ya dekh saktay hein aor Facebook pe har Saturday Rabwah Times Program Live Aata hai. So wahan comments mein aap apne sawaal likh saktay hein aapko Jo banda program kerta hai wo live jawaab de de ga.
 

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
I dont agree with what you have written. 99.9 % of us dont have takleef about the phone calls we get.

Extortion & Bhatta kahan jata hai all know very well. And all have to pay at gunpoint otherwise they life is at threat. So your example is quote absurd.

Jub Hazur Pbuh ne Islam k liye Maali jehaad ki appeal ki thee tou kon thay jo Ghar mein jo kuch tha ley aaey thay ? Kon thay jo ghar ka Aadha Maal le aaey thay ? Unhoun ne Choon Chaan nai ki. Us waqt bhee aap jesa aetraaz baaz tola tha.

I know where you are coming from. You are quoting those whose Akhraaj have been done from Jamaat because of their Khilaaf e Shareeat actions or those 0.01 % for whom either worldly life is more imp ie extrene greed of worldly money or those jinkay mutalliq islam says that wo eemaan laatay hein than ultay paoon phir jaatay hein. Aesoun k jhootay Propaganda se hamara na kbi kuch bigrha tha na bigrha hai.

There are only 2 laazmi chandajaat. No Ahmadi is expelled from jamaat if he is unable to pay chanda. Not even 1 such case in the history of Ahmadiat. And same is with Islam wrt Zakaat. No muslim is expelled of Islam if he does not pay Zakaat which is compulsory.


Despite All this Propaganda Machines this is what Allah SubhaanaAllah is giving us. So fight with Allah and further Argue with Allah and knock His door.


1. How and Why this Catholic Christian became Ahmadi Muslim ? He is telling.
He is Ahmadi Muslim now for ten years. Alhamdoulillah


https://youtu.be/u67cZlI76mY



2. How and why this Agnostic person from UK became Ahmadi Muslim. He tells his story of Allah's guidance aswell as what he found out after reading more than 10 books of Promised Messiah AS


https://youtu.be/5EqWoKmNczk



3. This person from Pakistan who became Ahmadi Muslim after He saw an event in 1974 in Pakistan when Mullah's burnt the home of an Ahmadi Muslim because they felt its necesaary to burn Mirzaee Qadiani Home and Properties to serve Islam. When His Sunni & Ahl e Hadees Maulana's could not justify their actions than Just by seeing the Zulm with his eyes and witnessing who the Mazloom was and who the Zaalim was this man became Ahmadi Muslim in 1974 and than by his Daawat e Lillah 26 people accepted Ahmadiat uptil 1993 and Now Alhamdoulillah there are 70 people from that area of Sialkot who are Ahmadi Muslim Alhamdoulillah.


https://youtu.be/aRvcwHz_O6c



4. Story of a Sharaabi Kabaabi Zaani financially Corrupt Police Officer who accepted Ahmadiat Islam after witnessing the Character and Knowledge of Ahmadi Muslim Prisoners in Jail who were prisoned for Blasphemy charges. How that DSP became Ahmadi Muslim & how just like Awaleen of 1500 years ago Ahmadiat transformed him where he stopped drinking, stopped doing Zana, stopped taking Bribe and how entering real Islam made him into a better human being and better Muslim. This is the change Ahmadiat brings in a person.


https://youtu.be/3HqXx2309VU



5. My Mother's Father became Ahmadi in 1940's when he was a Sunni Muslim in his 20's. He became Ahmadi after reading 20 plus books of Hazrat Maseeh e Mouood As at that time books were not banned.

While My Father's Grand Father became Ahmadi in 1903 after meeting Hazrat Maseeh e Mouood AS in person and reading his Teachings. Whereas My Father's great Grand Father from his maternal side was the first Arab to accept Ahmadiat. He was a Palestinian and was sitting in his fruit farm when a man came to meet him in 1928 and introduced himself as a Missionary from India and said that Imam Mehdi AS has come and has passed away. He started tellinh his claim but That Arab stopped him and said Di you have any picture of the claimant ? He said Yes. He showed him the picture and He said give me Bait forms. That Missionary said to him that I havent yet told you the claim and have just started my talk but that Pious Arab said look I had seen a Dream few years ago where Allah showed me this person and told me that He is Imam Mehdi of the time accept him and I was searching for him since many years. Now the picture you showed is exactly the same. He went home told His wife and 5 family members did Bait. Today Alhamdoulillah there is a Jamaat of 20,000 Palestinian Ahmadi Muslims in Palestine and about 10,000 who have migrated.


With every passing Day despite the persecution in Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, Indonesia, Algeria, Malaysia and in Few African Countries by the Mullahs whom He Pbuh called Ulema e Soo and the rubbish online Propaganda of Packets of Lies Our Eemaan is strengthening by the grace of Allah almightly. And our Jamaat is strengthening with every passing day by Allah's grace.


We need Billions of Rupees for the work Our Jamaat is doing Worldwide and We sacrifice Billions of Rupees from Our Income for this Noble and Holy Cause and we will keep on doing this Since our Last Breaths. Just to tell you wrt Tahir Heart Institute where Poor Non Ahmadi Muslims and Non Ahmadi's (85 % of Patients) get free Treatment whether its Angiography, Angioplasty or ByPass, The Annual Budget of the Hospital is in Billions. And without Money neither this Project can be successful nor the other 30 odd projects. In some countries we distribute 5 million Pumphlets every year. How much it costs to Print 5 million Pumplets ?
In Thar we have digged 230 Water Wells how much does that Cost ?
In Countries like Ghaana our One School has 15000 Students studying free because of the extreme poverty. How much it costs for laboratories, computers and Staff Pay ? We have built Our Mosques in the heart of European Cities how many Million Pounds is needed for building one Mosque ? ?


We are doing Jehaad Bil Qalam & Maali Jehaad to spread Real Islam and to serve Ailing Supressed Humanity along with doing Jehaad Bin Nafs by following Islam in its spirit to become a living example of Practicing Peaceful Muslims with Character and Deads of Muslims.

Aap loug Jehaad Bin Saif k Naam pe Terrorism ker rahay ho (Not All). Aor iss se Islam ka naam budnaam horaha dunya bhar mein aor 80 % se zayada Khoon Qalma Go musalmaanoun ka beh raha hai iss so called Jehaad Bin Saif k Naam pe. Jub k Hazur Pbuh ne kaha tha k Imam Mehdi jub aaey ga tou Talwaar k Jehaad ko suspend ker de ga aor Qalam aor Maal k jehaad ko tarweej de ga. So Wo aaey aor unhoun ne aesa he kiya aor jo jo unki umbrella k neechay wo aesa he ker raha.


Aap k jitne bhee Aeyrazaat hein Mazeed Jamaat e Ahmadiyya per ya Personalities per ya belief system per unkay liye Aap Program Rah e Huda pe live call kerein aor Aapko live jawaab milay ga. Ya Aap Faith matters program ko email kerein tou aapka sawaal adress hojaey ga. Ya letter likhein program Fiqa ee Masail, ya email Real Talk aapko jawabaat mil jaein ge har aap k aetraaz k. Alternatively aap Alislam.org, Real-Islam, muslim.org, Ahmadianswers.com pe jaa k har sawaal k aetraaz k jawabaat text, audio ya video form mein bhee perh, sunn ya dekh saktay hein aor Facebook pe har Saturday Rabwah Times Program Live Aata hai. So wahan comments mein aap apne sawaal likh saktay hein aapko Jo banda program kerta hai wo live jawaab de de ga.

Just to have policies where the "religion" can kick you out is disturbing to say the least and of course they will say that to save when in most cases the people have the left the cult out of their own free will.

You say you disagree with 99.9% of what I have said yet fail to counter any point I have put across. I have asked a number of questions in a very methodical and clear manner, to which there is no reply. A huge cut and paste sermon about mirzaiyat is this and mirzaiyat is that, same can be found on any ahmadi site, and then you blame me for cut and paste propaganda ?!?!

All the videos you have posted ( I have seen some of them ) I can post a equal number videos of people who have left Mirzaiyat, and like I mentioned earlier in one of my posts. The Ahamdi converts are usually muslims on paper with no real knowledge of Islam or following whatever religion the same way. In fact its easier to con non muslims in Mirzaiyat, because they are attracted to true Islam, after converting to Mirzai as shown early half leave it in a short while.

While people who leave Ahmediyat on which later the jamat says they have been kicked out. Are well educated devout Ahmedis and usually leave it by getting exposed to more writings of GM. Or people non muslims, even Christian Priests who have become muslims.

You have written so much without countering any point or answering any questions. I will list them again just to make it easier for you.

1. References of just the Quran and Hadith from GM books proving he is the Mahdi and Jesus. And once again like I said earlier I will reads them gladly

2.Why only a collection of a measly sum of 5.6 million GBP ( in 2010 )when you claim a membership of 100s of millions. Your yourself have mentioned that the jamat is audited and very financially transparent. I tried my best to look for this information online but I could not. Since I compared it to Shaukat Khanam. All I had to do was type in Budget for Shaukat Khanam 2015 and it pops right up as the first return on a search. Maybe you can post this information about the Jamat.

3.How and where your Khalifa lives and what is his lifestyle and expense. You said you know this very well I just asked you to share this information with me.

4.No counter or comment to the German media articles on the corruption of the Jamat in regards to donations.

I'm not even including many of the other points I made.

P.S : Please spare me the regular sermons of Mirzai is this and mirzai is that, we do this and we do that, we around for 127 years and will be for another 127 etc etc. Things you've already repeated several times without any relevance or cause.
 
Last edited:

SachGoee

Senator (1k+ posts)
Just to have policies where the "religion" can kick you out is disturbing to say the least and of course they will say that to save when in most cases the people have the left the cult out of their own free will.

You say you disagree with 99.9% of what I have said yet fail to counter any point I have put across. I have asked a number of questions in a very methodical and clear manner, to which there is no reply. A huge cut and paste sermon about mirzaiyat is this and mirzaiyat is that, same can be found on any ahmadi site, and then you blame me for cut and paste propaganda ?!?!

All the videos you have posted ( I have seen some of them ) I can post a equal number videos of people who have left Mirzaiyat, and like I mentioned earlier in one of my posts. The Ahamdi converts are usually muslims on paper with no real knowledge of Islam or following whatever religion the same way. In fact its easier to con non muslims in Mirzaiyat, because they are attracted to true Islam, after converting to Mirzai as shown early half leave it in a short while.

While people who leave Ahmediyat on which later the jamat says they have been kicked out. Are well educated devout Ahmedis and usually leave it by getting exposed to more writings of GM. Or people non muslims, even Christian Priests who have become muslims.

You have written so much without countering any point or answering any questions. I will list them again just to make it easier for you.

1. References of just the Quran and Hadith from GM books proving he is the Mahdi and Jesus. And once again like I said earlier I will reads them gladly

2.Why only a collection of a measly sum of 5.6 million GBP ( in 2010 )when you claim a membership of 100s of millions. Your yourself have mentioned that the jamat is audited and very financially transparent. I tried my best to look for this information online but I could not. Since I compared it to Shaukat Khanam. All I had to do was type in Budget for Shaukat Khanam 2015 and it pops right up as the first return on a search. Maybe you can post this information about the Jamat.

3.How and where your Khalifa lives and what is his lifestyle and expense. You said you know this very well I just asked you to share this information with me.

4.No counter or comment to the German media articles on the corruption of the Jamat in regards to donations.

I'm not even including many of the other points I made.

P.S : Please spare me the regular sermons of Mirzai is this and mirzai is that, we do this and we do that, we around for 127 years and will be for another 127 etc etc. Things you've already repeated several times without any relevance or cause.


Theek hai.
 

SachGoee

Senator (1k+ posts)
@Citizen X


Bhaee last Post.


Fact Check: Biggest Charity Fraud in Panama Papers
May 15, 2016 By Rabwah Times
charity_fraud_panama

Kill Ahmadis Hate Group alleges financial misconduct by the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.

An anti-Ahmadi activist with links to the extremist Khatme Nabuwat group recently wrote a libelous article alleging financial misconduct on the part of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. The allegations are so absurd, they do not merit a response. But for the benefit of those who are unaware of the community and how it works, here is a brief point-by-point response to the allegations.

1) Author belongs to Khatme Nabuwat Hate Group:

Akber ChoudhryFirst of all, the article in question is written by Akber Chaudry, a full-time anti-Ahmadi fanatic who has devoted his professional career to attacking the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. He is the spokesperson for the Khatme Nabuwwat, hate group which is in the forefront of the ongoing persecution of Ahmadi Muslims in Pakistan, and other Muslim countries. Its UK branch was recently reported by the BBC to have published and distributed leaflets calling for the faith-based murder of Ahmadis. Chaudry even gave the BBC an interview at the time to defend these atrocities. In an interview given to IB Times Choudhry said there is nothing wrong with Kill Ahmadis leaflets.

Taking his analysis of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community as gospel is exactly like going to professional Islamophobes such as Ayan Hirsi Ali to learn about Islam: or to an antisemite Mullah to learn about Judaism. With that perspective in mind, let us turn to the content of the article.

2) Charity Commission in the UK audits Ahmadiyya Muslim Community:

The article makes a number of unsupported claims. It begins however by mentioning that the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is registered with the Charity Commission in the UK (and is also registered with similar public organizations in the numerous other countries in which it operates). The Charity Commission (and similar bodies in other countries) completes an independent audit of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community annually. This is always passed in flying colors and is available as public record (pictured right).

This is as opposed to other charities belonging to certain other sects which are regularly flagged by the Charity Commission.

And who would know better than Akber Choudhry himself, who has three companies listed under his name in public registries in the UK and Canada. The first one (QERN academy) had to be compulsorily struck off by the British government under the Companies Act 2006 (Section 1000(3)) for lack of payment. The status of his annual flings for his second company based in Canada is also not up-to-date and listed as overdue. And a third company (DIGIWAVE) under his name also narrowly escaped suspension is overdue again and pending suspension.

3) Offshore Accounts ≠ Fraud.

Screen Shot 2016-05-15 at 3.38.46 AMThe piece basically states that since the Ahmadiyya Community held offshore accounts at one point, hence it is guilty of financial fraud. There is no evidence of this charity fraud provided at any point during the article. This allegation is a deliberate attempt at misleading the reader, if not due to genuine ignorance of the worlds financial system. Merely owning an offshore account does not equal illegitimacy. There are many legal and sound reasons for companies, trusts and organizations to keep offshore accounts. In fact, the disclaimer on the Panama Leaks database states this fact in bold on its front page (picture attached).

What are some of these legal reasons to keep an offshore account? Here are 10. Asset protection and ease of international transactions are two. We will discuss this more in #9 below.

panama_papers_ahmadiyya

4) Does the Ahmadiyya Community Force the Poor for Donations?

Unfortunately, Mr. Chaudry is prone to making statements that are not truthful. For example, in his article he writes:

And this wealth is not through business. It is by forcing poor people to cough up 510% of their income.

Anyone close to the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community knows this is a practice frowned upon in the community. Instead of taking from the, there are multiple schemes (loans, grants etc) that actively help those suffering in poverty. The Khalifa, Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad, reminded office-holders of this in the recent past:

Management should be thoughtful about such people and should not force (poor) people to pay. Sometimes finance secretaries pursue people [and should not do so in these cases]. Contributions should be taken in accordance with peoples situations. (Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad, Friday Sermon 7 November 2014)

That said, I am glad the Khatme Nabuwat group has for the first time admitted that the communitys funding comes from the pockets of common Ahmadi Muslims. In the past, the group has accused the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community of being funded by the West.

5) Ahmadiyya Muslim Communitys Dubious Projects?

flood_relief_ campLater, Chaudry writes:

Money flows as charitable donations from have countries like U.S.,. Canada, Pakistan, Germany and U.K. into AMJ International from where it is distributed into dubious projects around the world.

Those dubious projects include the building and maintenance of 16,000 mosques worldwide, the publication of the Quran with translation in over 70 languages, the running of several multi-language global free-to-air and commercial-free TV channels, the running of numerous websites, radio stations and mobile apps. The building and staffing of over 600 charitable schools and 40 hospitals in some of the poorest parts of the world. The building of thousands of water pumps, solar panels and other facilities in disadvantaged parts of Africa and Asia etc. Other dubious projects include providing for the families of Ahmadi martyrs, widows and less advantaged members of society, and securing Ahmadiyya Mosques around the world from extremists such as those belonging to the Khatme Nabuwat group.

Non-Ahmadis who have visited Ahmadiyya missions across the world bear testimony to the astonishing scale of charitable work going on. Many dignitaries who have spoken at the communitys annual gatherings have praised these efforts and lauded the community as a champion of human welfare and selfless service.

Akber himself has previously tweeted about the work done by the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.


6) Income & Expenses balancing out is proof of financial regularity, not misconduct:

Screen Shot 2016-05-15 at 7.14.49 PM

Chaudry continues with absurd statements such as:

Al-Shirkatul-Islamiyyah, and curiously, its income and expenses almost balance every year.

Al-Shirkatul-Islamiyyah is a charity based in London. Those Ahmadi Muslims who visit London are regularly given tours of its offices. Only those who are prone to undue suspicion could find anything other than signs of good management in the fact that its income and expenses balance out each year. The real sign of fraud would be if the community was (1) hoarding donations which went unspent with income exceeding expenses or (2) overspending beyond its means with expenses exceeding income. Balanced sheets which are publicly available with the UK Charity Commission being presented as a crime is frankly absurd. It demonstrates how Chaudry repeatedly presents a virtue as a vice for the sake of his own agenda. For this, he relies heavily on an ignorant readership.

7) Ahmadi Muslims spending on projects unrelated to organization goals?

Regrettably, the author digs himself even deeper in the sentences that follow:

Since Mirza Masroor Ahmad came to power, he has focused on investing in properties and totally unrelated to the goals of the organization.

And what are these properties whose unrelated purposes the Khatme Nabuwat activist fails to explain or give a single example of? Well, in 2011 a total of 419 of them were mosques. Yes, the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community built or purchased 419 mosques worldwide in 2011. In 2013, the community managed 394 mosques. Maybe Chaudry thinks Mosques are unrelated to the goals of the Ahmadiyya Community because he neither identities the Ahmadis as Muslims nor Ahmadiyya Mosques as Mosques. But clearly, Ahmadi Muslims around the world disagree. In 2014 one of those dubious projects was providing relief to Pakistanis affected by the floods. In 2016 members of Ahmadiyya sect met with Palestinian leaders to find ways to provide scholarships to provide scholarships to Palestinian students.

In fact, just two days ago, the Khalifa Hadhrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad, inaugurated a state-of-the-art Mosque in Sweden.

Jammat e Ahmadiyya Pakistan also lead the flood relief efforts during the Pakistan floods of 2014, the beneficiaries of these relief efforts were mostly non-Ahmadis and the below video is testament to the great work done by the community.




8) Does the Ahmadiyya Khalifa Live in Extravagance?

khalifa_residence
Khalifas residence is a small flat by the Mosque, on the first floor of community offices.
In fact, Ahmadis will find these allegations even more loony given the Khalifa, now in his position for thirteen years, lives in a small flat above the Fazal Mosque in London. Hundreds of thousands of Ahmadi Muslims have visited him there and met him personally in his small office. This is someone who is the head of a religious organisation whose members donate tens of millions a year in the UK alone, not to mention hundreds of millions more worldwide. If he is so corrupt, why have he and his wife spent the last thirteen years living in a small flat, wearing an inexpensive white shalwar kameez (Asian shirt) and working from a small cramped office by a mosque? Clearly, far from being a corrupt hoarder of money, the Khalifa is a humble and honest man of great integrity and simple means.

9) Ahmadiyya Property Seized in Pakistan:

29PAKISTAN-superJumboAs far as the offshore accounts are concerned, it must be remembered that the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is severely persecuted in Pakistan. Its mosques and properties are regularly seized by the government and by extremist mobs belonging to or supported by the Khatme Nabuwat group. In the Ahmadiyya town of Chenab Nagar (Rabwah) to which Chaudry refers, property was seized from Ahmadis by the government recently and then sold at a profit, with the provision that those who buy the property must sign to confirm that they are not Ahmadis and promise never to sell or return the land to Ahmadi Muslims. Given these circumstances, it is hardly surprising that the Ahmadis of Pakistan chose to keep their assets offshore. It is perfectly legal for them to do so and there is no evidence of any wrongdoing or fraud whatsoever.

An offshore bank account also protects you from overzealous government agencies armed with the summary power to freeze your assets. (Source: 10 Reasons Why You Need an Offshore Bank Account Today)

Would you not prefer to save your charitys money (which is tax-exempt anyway) from being seized by a hostile agency, especially when there is a history of such abuse in the past?

10) Interesting Confession by Khatme Nabuwat Group:

Tahreek Khatam e NabuwatFor many decades, the anti-Ahmadi Khatme Nabuwat group alleged that the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community was funded by the West. We now know that it was Pakistans Sunni Tehreek which received funds from the United States. And Saudi Arabia has funneled hundreds of billions of dollars around the world to promote their Wahhabi version of Islam, and in many instances lead to rise of religious extremism, especially in countries such as Pakistan. This is the first time the Khatme Nabuwat group has come out admitting the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is funded by common Ahmadis. But the new line seems to be to convince the Ahmadis that their well-earned money is being spent on extravagance and dubious projects. The only problem here is that there is neither any proof of extravagance, nor of any suspicious projects. As they say, the onus of wrongdoing is on the accuser. We will wait for evidence.

In short, charities are already tax-exempt. The only reason to save these funds outside Pakistan is security, not evasion. The way these funds are generated and spent is routinely audited both internally and externally, and in the words of the Khatme Nabuwat activist always balance out. If there is any evidence of fraud, let the Khatme Nabuwat group present it to the world.

If the above proof is not enough, the Akbers own claims are contrary to the statements he himself made in a video on the same subject.



For the picture of Lavish Home and Lifestyle refer to point 8.

https://www.rabwah.net/fact-check-biggest-charity-fraud-in-panama-papers/
 

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
@Citizen X




Bhaee last Post.




Fact Check: Biggest Charity Fraud in Panama Papers
May 15, 2016 By Rabwah Times
charity_fraud_panama


Kill Ahmadis Hate Group alleges financial misconduct by the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.


EDITED FOR SPACE TO AVOID NEEDLESS SCROLLING UP AND DOWN


https://www.rabwah.net/fact-check-biggest-charity-fraud-in-panama-papers/


Once again you reply with another cut and paste job with just barely touches on the questions posed. I'm sure you are capable of formulating your own answers rather than the regular cut and pastes. You can link and quote sources but just whole sale and pastes jobs are in my view being lazy and dishonest.


Third time I'm asking you to send me references of GMs books where he cites the quran and hadith to back up his claims, and only because it is you who told me to go read his material, and now I'm just asking you in the interest of saving time to be a little more specific, and you have ignored the questions 3 times now. Whats up with that ?


And this whole article is against some Akbar Chaudry I have never even heard about and I didn't even know Mirzai organizations were named in the Panama Papers and once again the whole thing in its entirety is off topic.


I mentioned the article in the German press which has nothing to do with your Akbar Chaudry or his organisation and its about Donations for Asylum Scam.


he and his wife spent the last thirteen years living in a small flat, wearing an inexpensive white shalwar kameez (Asian shirt) and working from a small cramped office by a mosque


And the tiny bit that is ON topic is filled with exaggeration

oldfloorplan.jpg


Now I would hardly call this "tiny" or "cramped" by any means specially in a city like London.

Further more they planned to expand it to this in 2010

newfloorplan.jpg



I dare even you to call this small and cramped. Only reason it didn't get built for some mess up between the City Planning Board and the Jamat.

And one only has to google his name to see the "the inexpensive white shalwar kameez" he wears
 

SachGoee

Senator (1k+ posts)
Once again you reply with another cut and paste job with just barely touches on the questions posed. I'm sure you are capable of formulating your own answers rather than the regular cut and pastes. You can link and quote sources but just whole sale and pastes jobs are in my view being lazy and dishonest.


Third time I'm asking you to send me references of GMs books where he cites the quran and hadith to back up his claims, and only because it is you who told me to go read his material, and now I'm just asking you in the interest of saving time to be a little more specific, and you have ignored the questions 3 times now. Whats up with that ?


And this whole article is against some Akbar Chaudry I have never even heard about and I didn't even know Mirzai organizations were named in the Panama Papers and once again the whole thing in its entirety is off topic.


I mentioned the article in the German press which has nothing to do with your Akbar Chaudry or his organisation and its about Donations for Asylum Scam.





And the tiny bit that is ON topic is filled with exaggeration

oldfloorplan.jpg


Now I would hardly call this "tiny" or "cramped" by any means specially in a city like London.

Further more they planned to expand it to this in 2010

newfloorplan.jpg



I dare even you to call this small and cramped. Only reason it didn't get built for some mess up between the City Planning Board and the Jamat.

And one only has to google his name to see the "the inexpensive white shalwar kameez" he wears


I want to complete my masters with shining grades and get a funded Phd or a cool Job so that I can sacrifice a Major chunk of my Monthly Pay by giving Chanda in 16 sub titles atleast to Jamaat for All the Noble causes its doing. So tell me if I answer your questions day and night without you getting convinced will i achieve my goals ? So that after a few montha or years you Argue with me oh pleaseeeee dont give this money to Jamaat.


Hazrat Usmam RA ki khilafat pe, hazrat Ali RA ki khilafat pe kum aetrazaat huay thay and horahay hein aaj tak ? ?

Logoun ne Hazrat Ayesha RA ko bhee nai baksha ? ?

Iss forum pe Gandi Ghaleez gaaleean di gaeen Sahaba RA aor Umahatul Momineen RA ko. Per kya iss se unka Baal bhee bheega hua ? Unki Azeem Shaan mein kami hui ? Hargiz nai.


Aap Aetraazoun ki factory hein balkay Industrial city of Aetrazaat hein aap. Aap ko jo jo mein btaun ga k jamaat ye ye ker rai jis pe Araboun rupay sarf horahay uss sub ko aap radd ker k Mafroozoun pe baat kerein ge aor aetrazaat phenkein ge hujjatein dhundein ge.


Meray farishtoun ko bhee khabbar nai hai k ye Naqshay kaham k hein. I just know k Germany mein Aik city mein jamaat ko officially muslim organisation ka status mila hai. So mumkin hai wahan ye construction hona ho. Per Agar Khalifa k Naam pe kuch offices buildings houn tou aapko iss se kya aetraaz ? Kya aapko pata k ye official buildings Khalifa e Waqt ki agli nasal ko transfer nai hoteen aor ye jamaat ki property hoti hein ? Do you even know this ? ?

Aor Agar ye article publish hua hai tou iska kya jawaab jamaat has given i do not know. Will check.


But the question is k meray n hamaray paisay se Jamaat ka jo bhee bun raha hai myjhay takleef nai hamari 99.9 % majority ko takleef nai tou aapko kyun ? Jub humein Jamaat batati hai and dikhati ha k kahan hamara paisa lag raha hai hamari majority satisfied hai tou aap ko kya problem hai ? Hamara Paisa hai hamaray ghar mein lag raha hai.


As far as Hazrat Maseeh e Mouood As books is concerned You only mentioned Hazrat Eesa As being Alive view thats it and i referred you Two books with the Page numbers aswell tp read where the Ahadees aswell as Verses of Quran are mentioned. Read those.


As far as Chandaaz are concerned this was Initiated by He AS and it isnt mebtioned in Quran or Hadees but We have Accepted a Prophet As Prophesized by He Pbuh as the Prophesis got fulfilled and we do Ataat of Allah's Nabi in letter and Spirit. And as the Jamaat has spread worlwide our Projects have vastened aswell. For instance during 2nd Khilafatt there were only 2 Janmias and there was no Tahir Heart Institute or Mta or Radio channels so we did not need this much money as of today. There was no peace conferences and Literature in millions wasnt being distrubted. Same with Schools colleges hospitals etc and Jamaat had 5 % of paid employees compared to today's quantity of Paid Ahmadiz worldwide working for Jamaat. And we had few dozen mosques limited to few countries. Now We have spread and our financial needs are increasing so as has Allah Promised in Surah e Juma aswell as in Surah e Maidah the Caliphood for believers and as He Pbuh Prophesized Saanwi Khilafatt after Nabooat ie Khilafatt Alla Minhaaj un Nabooa so after He As Caliphood begun. And whatever New Tehreek our Caliph starts as A Caliph of Allah 99.9 % of us say Labbaikk and contribute to it. Our money is being accounted for so we are satisfied and happy alhamdoulillah.


Agar Khuda ka Nabi ya Khalifa aapko kuch kehta tou Aap uski ataat kerne mein Saadat samajhtay hein. Allah ka fazal hai k hum Bagjdaadi Qaatil k maatehtoun ki tarah nai jo insaaniat ka khoon ker rahay. Hum mein se beshtarr Aemaal e Saleha ki rah pe hein Khilafat ki Ataat mein.

Aapko jo meinay link bheja hai point 8 mein lavish home ki tasweer dekh lein. Baaqi Mafroozoun pe meray paas baat kerne k liye kuch nai hai. Khalifa Awall, Saani, Saalis, Raabay RT k naam pe jo jo projects shuru huay thay un mein se aik bhee unki family ko biwo bachoun ko agli nasloun ko transfer nai hua. Agar Bait ul Fatooh k saath k offices and Halla Hazur Aba k naam pe hein that does not mean its his personal propertu that means its jamaat's property. Aor jub aor Agar koi Khilafat Castle kaheen bunnay ga jo 1986 se 2016 tak Nai bana Europe or anywhere else tou aap Mujhay zarur dikhana aor batana. Than we will talk on that.


Lastly, i have told u multiple forums where you can raise all your questions and you will get the answers. I am not an official representative of jamaat. If that place is in Germany than write a Letter to Ahmadiyya Muslim Spokesperson for germany, President Ahmadiyya Muslim Community Germany and write a Letter to Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad Aba aswell mentioning your concern and you will be answered.
 

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
I want to complete my masters with shining grades and get a funded Phd or a cool Job so that I can sacrifice a Major chunk of my Monthly Pay by giving Chanda in 16 sub titles atleast to Jamaat for All the Noble causes its doing. So tell me if I answer your questions day and night without you getting convinced will i achieve my goals ? So that after a few montha or years you Argue with me oh pleaseeeee dont give this money to Jamaat.

EDITED FOR SPACE AGAIN

I have no issue you, can can give 99.9% of all your earnings to the Jamat and live like a beggar and your family can starve if you want that. My whole point is your religion or rather cult (because that is a more fitting description ) IS your jamat. If there is no Jamat there is not Qaidiani. The whole Qaidiani existence is linked to the existence of the Jamat. Rather weak. Islam did not need nor does it need any Jamat.

Just like Scientology and Mormonism if their repected churches dissolve so with the cult along with it. Hence all three have this mandatory system of forced donation, although its members are brainwashed to think its voluntary. If you don't believe me, don't pay any chandaa to the Jamat for 6 months or a year. Pay your zakat and sadaqah to other non qaidiani charities or people and see what happens and how they treat you.

This whole thing we have survived for 127 years and Allah has spread the true word. Katy Perry has 90 million followers on twitter, more than 10 times the followers of so is Allah helping spreading the true of message of Katy Perry ??? So that argument is useless. On top of that most of those followers know more of Katy Perrys work by heart than the Qaidianis know GMs works by heart.

And those plans are from Wanward City Planning in UK and not Germany. Its where your current Khalifa lives and there was a proposed expansion of 5.5 million gbp, later rejected and not given permission by the city.

You can find them and the entire case file here

https://planning.wandsworth.gov.uk/WAM/showCaseFile.do?appType=planning&appNumber=2010/0486


The problem with you Qaidianis is you don't read your own prophets books, which by the way, Prophets don't write books and poetry. Allah reveals his message to them through his angels. And not tichi tichi and our dear Prophet s.a.w was unlettered for the very same reason so no one can point fingers that he was a learned scholar and wrote the Quran himself.

Just like I've see many videos of accounts of people accepting Mirzaiyat I've seen many videos of people who have left Mirzaiyat. And the biggest common factor among all their accounts for leaving it was not that someone came to them and invited them to Islam and did dawah but they started to read GMs books and found out person who has written all of this certainly cannot be a man of god let alone a prophet.

Hence I asked you earlier, how much and many of GMs books have you read. Maybe if you did read more of his book you would have a better understanding of GM.

By the way thanks for informing me of Akbar Chaudray. I looked him up, turns out he's an ex mirazi too and has interesting things to say hence the Qaidianis are so against him.

And it is nothing short of tapping out when you say things write to the jamat and the khalifa if you want answers, you came here defending your faith of your own free will, but offered nothing but cut and paste Mirzai propaganda, we are this and we are that. anything slightly out of the box you very cunningly avoid and if you don't have answers to such simple questions why are you even a part of this cult ?
 

SachGoee

Senator (1k+ posts)
I have no issue you, can can give 99.9% of all your earnings to the Jamat and live like a beggar and your family can starve if you want that. My whole point is your religion or rather cult (because that is a more fitting description ) IS your jamat. If there is no Jamat there is not Qaidiani. The whole Qaidiani existence is linked to the existence of the Jamat. Rather weak. Islam did not need nor does it need any Jamat.

Just like Scientology and Mormonism if their repected churches dissolve so with the cult along with it. Hence all three have this mandatory system of forced donation, although its members are brainwashed to think its voluntary. If you don't believe me, don't pay any chandaa to the Jamat for 6 months or a year. Pay your zakat and sadaqah to other non qaidiani charities or people and see what happens and how they treat you.

This whole thing we have survived for 127 years and Allah has spread the true word. Katy Perry has 90 million followers on twitter, more than 10 times the followers of so is Allah helping spreading the true of message of Katy Perry ??? So that argument is useless. On top of that most of those followers know more of Katy Perrys work by heart than the Qaidianis know GMs works by heart.

And those plans are from Wanward City Planning in UK and not Germany. Its where your current Khalifa lives and there was a proposed expansion of 5.5 million gbp, later rejected and not given permission by the city.

You can find them and the entire case file here

https://planning.wandsworth.gov.uk/WAM/showCaseFile.do?appType=planning&appNumber=2010/0486


The problem with you Qaidianis is you don't read your own prophets books, which by the way, Prophets don't write books and poetry. Allah reveals his message to them through his angels. And not tichi tichi and our dear Prophet s.a.w was unlettered for the very same reason so no one can point fingers that he was a learned scholar and wrote the Quran himself.

Just like I've see many videos of accounts of people accepting Mirzaiyat I've seen many videos of people who have left Mirzaiyat. And the biggest common factor among all their accounts for leaving it was not that someone came to them and invited them to Islam and did dawah but they started to read GMs books and found out person who has written all of this certainly cannot be a man of god let alone a prophet.

Hence I asked you earlier, how much and many of GMs books have you read. Maybe if you did read more of his book you would have a better understanding of GM.

By the way thanks for informing me of Akbar Chaudray. I looked him up, turns out he's an ex mirazi too and has interesting things to say hence the Qaidianis are so against him.

And it is nothing short of tapping out when you say things write to the jamat and the khalifa if you want answers, you came here defending your faith of your own free will, but offered nothing but cut and paste Mirzai propaganda, we are this and we are that. anything slightly out of the box you very cunningly avoid and if you don't have answers to such simple questions why are you even a part of this cult ?




Messiah of Last time was supposed to reform Islam and revive it in its original form through divine guidance of Allah almighty.

If you have the Brain of the size of a peanut than you should know that in the world of 1900 where there were hundreds of countries your message could only be sent worldwide through your writings. And if He As wrote nothing than you and people like you would have said that Whatever Ahmadi's say that He As claimed there is no proof of that and Ahmadi's lie upon the person in whom they believe.


From BudRasoomaat of Marriage and Death, from denouncing Muttah, from challenging Vaid faith of Hindus, pronouncing Hazrat Eesa As as dead from Quran o Hadees, challenging Court marriages concepts, suspending Jehaad bil Saif unless fighting for your country's freedom defense, Reviving real teachings of Islam on Apostasy and Blasphemy all this needed to be documented for the world. Furthermore the Mubahilla's with Hindus needed to be be documented aswell and so for the Manaazraas and Aarya Samaaj.


Hazur Pbuh was a Law bearing Prophet and Quran was revealed on He Pbuh. So he pbuh needed not to write any other book neither he was ordered by Allah to do so. Because a Complete religion and last religion was revealed upon him Pbuh.


Where as Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS was not a law bearing Prophet and Islam and Quran are and were last Religions and Last Holy Book. And with Last Sheraee Nabi Pbuh the need for Law bearing Shareeat and revelation ceased and terminated by the wish and order of Allah almighty.


Hazur AS only and only did religious poetry and many muslims accepted him after getting the message through his poetry aswell. Because you raise questions at Mirza Sahib's being A poet trying to ridicule him in a capacity that Poets are liars and No prophet ever did Poetry than have the audacity to read Arabic Couplets of He Pbuh and dare to question He Pbuh aswell. After those couplets the non believers and otherwisr also used to call he pbuh as a poet, a magician and a liar and read the verses of Holy Qur'an where Allah said what about there allegations ? ? So if you want to rasie the same allegations on Mirza sahib as Jews and Christians used to raise on He Pbuh than you are most welcome. Carry On.




Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat was named Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat in early 20th century because of only 1 reason and that was that Census had to be conducted in order to determine our number. We believe that We are the 73rd sect of Islam. Also many renowned Islamic scholars of past gave Nishaani of that 73rd sect to be a Jamaat. Don't be lazy Man dependent upon Spoon feeding and search and read who who mentioned that sect as a Jamaat more than 150 years ago and before that time.


As far as Uk gov is unconcerned we are Law Abiding Muslim Citizens of every country except for those laws which try to stop us from Islamic Injunctions and Worshipping/Ibaadaat(Pakistan) so if Uk gov currently has reservation over our planned construction than we are fine. We would adress their concerns and whatever limits Gov will allow us we will build it acvordingly. It is neither deewaar e cheen nor a matter of our faith or religious belief which will fall if we dont get permission.


You believe we are a Cult, We will vanish if no chanda etc etc. Believe whatever you want. Its your right. But despite government stading against us We are standing tall alhamdoulillah and progressing well. Alhamdoulillah. If you or anybody has the power than Ye Chanday ka Nizaam khatam ker k dikhao ya Ahmadiat ko Mitta k dikhao. Come On. 127 saal se Tamaam mukhalfeen k tamaam harbay naakaam huay aaenda bhee houn ge inshaAllah Allah k fazal se. Aeyrheean Ragrho aor Maathay ghissao Sajdoun mein Allah k aagay k jisay tum fitna aor cult samajhtay ho wo mitt jaey. Zayada se zayada tum Apostasty k naam pe Ahmadioun ka Nahaq khoon baha rahay ho 127 saal se. Shaheed ker rahay ho apni janaab se jahanumm raseed kerne ka soch k so matt aao baaz. Ahmadiat nai mitti, hamaray diloun se La ilaha illalah mohammad ur Rasool Allah na Mitta sakay na mitta sako ge inshaAllah Taala. Per Khuda ki Taqdeer se darro. Dunya ya Aakhrat ki Pakarh se darro.


Aor tum meray Aqaid pe aetraaz kero ge tou mein apne literature se tumhein jawaab dun ga khoa apne ilfaaz ya copy paste.


Aor jo daleelein Quran o Hadees se dun ga tou just reference b dey sakta kyun k yahan screenshot Copy paste nai ker sakta. So kaakay na bano aap aor khud perho.





" He Pbuh ne farmaya meri ummat pe bhee wo Haalaat aaein ge jo Bani Israel per Aaey thay jin mein aesi mutaabqat hogee jesay aik paoon k jootat ki dusray paoon k jootay se hoti hai yahan tak k agar unn mein se koi apni maa se bhee budkaari ka murtakib hua tou meri ummat mein se koi aesa budbakht nikal aaey ga. Bani Israel 72 firqoun mein butt gaey thay meri ummat 73 firqoun mein butt jaey gee lekin aik firqa k siwa baaqi sub jahanumm mein jaein ge sahaba RA ne pucha ye Naaji firqa kon sa hoga ? Hazur Pbuh ne farmaya jo forqa meri aor meray sahaba RA ki sunnat per amal pera hoga "
(Tirmazi Abwaab up Eemaan, Baab Ifteraaq haazal ummata volume 2, page 88,89)


Ya jis k haalaat meray aor meray Sahaba RA jesay houn ge. Ye dono maanay hein yaani jis haal per tum mujhay aor meray sahaba RA ko paatat ho iss firqay ko iss haal pe paao ge. Jin khayalaat o aqaid per mujhay aor meray sahaba ko paatat ho unn khayalaat aor aqaid per agar kisi firqay ko Paao ge tou wo meray waala firqa hai aor wohi naaji firqa hai.



1. Hazrat Imam mohamaad bin Abdul Wahaab RT aik bohat berhay mouhid buzurg guzray hein. Musalmaan hajaaz ki bhaari taadaad unhein mujaddid maanti hai. Wo iss Hadees k mutaliq apni kitaab (Mukhtasirr Seerat e Rasool Page 18 matbooya Qaira) mein likhtay hein


" Yaani 73 mein se 72 k Naari aor 1 k jannati honay ka masla aik aze ushaan masla hai jo issay samajhta hai wohee fiqaheea hai aor jo iss per amal kerta hai. Yaani 72 firqoun ko Amalan naari aor 1 ko jannati karaar deta hai sirf aor sirf wohi musalmaan hai."

Yaani imam mohammad bin abdul wahab ne yahan musalmaan ki tareef yahan pohanch ker ye kerdi k ye hadees itni ehum hai aor He pbuh ne iss mein jo masla pesh kiya hai wo itni ehmiat ka haamil hai k jo shakhs iss ko tasleem nai kerta aor iss per amal nai kerta aor ye maanta hai k haan jub ummat e muslima firqoun mein butt jaey gee tou 72 naari aor 1 jannati hoga aor wohi hai jo musalmaan hai aor dusra musalmaan he koi nai.



2. Shaareh Mishkaat aor Fiqa e Hanfi k Musallima Aalim Hazrat Imam Mulla Ali Qaari Rt 73 firqoun waali hadees e nabwi pbuh ki sharah mein likhtay hein :


" Puss ye 72 firqay sub k sub Aag mein houn ge aor Naaji firqa wo hai jo roshan sunnat e mohammadiya aor pakeeza tareeqa e ahmadiyya per qayem hai "

(Miqaatul Maateeh tee Sharra Mishkaat al Masabeeh volume 1 page 448)


Kitne Azeem us Shaan Buzurg thay aor kesay Taaluq Billah waalay loug thay aik peshgoee per aik aor peshgoee ker rahay hein aor khoob khol ker bata rahay hein k wo mohammiya firqa ahmadiyya firqa k aesay rastay per hoga jo kaheen aor tumhein nazar naheen aaey ga.



Iss Hadees ko Musalmaanoun k Har Garoh ne Tasleem kiya aor wo issay aone ooper Jispaan kertay rahay. Shia kehtay hein k wo aik firqa hum hein aor baaqi saaray firqay 72 mein shaamil hein jub k sunni kehtay hein k naheen hum hein wo 1 firqa.



3. Aik Shia Mujtahidd issi hadees ka hawala dey ker likhtay hein k


" Shoa Hazrat Ali RA ko khalifa bila fasal baad peghambar aakhir uz zamaan pbuh k jaantay hein aor unkay baad unki aolaad se 11 farzan imam mehdi aakhir uz zamaan As takk yakkay baad deegarray khalifa tul rasool aor imam barhaqq maantay hein. Lekin baaqi 72 firqay pehla khalifa abu bakar, dusra umar, teesra usman chotha Ali As ko jaantay hein "

Iss kisum ki aor bhee Alaamtein bayaan kerne k baad aakhir per likhtay hein :

" khulasa : Tamaam Asool aor Faro mein yehi aik shia firqa 72 firqoun se alehda hai jis ka joarh kisi surat mein unn k saath naheen ho sakta. Kyun k berhay berhay masael asool o faro mein unn ka sakht ikhtalaaf hai. Iss liye tamaam islami firqay islami firqa Shia ko mukhaalif samajhtay hein. Lekin Hadees Mazkoora k mutaabiq yehi aik firqa baaqi firqoun se bilkul juda honay ki wajah se naaji aor bahishtee hai "
(Fatawa haaera part 2, Az afadaat e Aaliya hujja tul islam wal muslameen sadr ul mufsareen sultan ul mohadeseen mohai ul millat ............. alama syed haaeri sahib qibla mujtahid ul asar uz zamaan bar 3 page 5,6)



4. Jamaat e Islami ka mashoor organ Tarjumaan ul Quran hai wo iss hadees ko tasleem kertay huay iss per likhtay hein :


" Islam mein na Aksareeat ka kisi baat per mitaffiq hona iss k haq honay ki daleel hai na Aksareeat ka naam Soda e Azam hai.
(Berhee Khul ker baat ki hau) Na her bheerh Jamaat k hukum mein Daakhil hai aor Na kisi muqaam k Moulvioun ki kisi Jamaat ka kisi Raaey ko Ikhtayaar ker lena Ijmah hai.... Iss matlub ki Taeed iss Hadees e Nabwi Pbuh se hoti hai jo Abdullah Bin Umroo se Baeen Ilfaaz marwi hai (the hadees i have mentioned above) Bani Israel 72 firqoun mein butt gaee thee aor meri ummat 73 mein butt jaey gee jo sub k sub jahannum mein perh jaein ge bajuzz aik k. "


Iss k baad Tarjumaan ul Quran likhta hai :


" Ye Garoh na kasrat mein hoga na apni kasrat ko apne barhaq honay ki daleel thehraey ga balkay iss ummat k 73 forqoun mein se aik hoga. Aor iss Maamoor Dunya mein iss ki Hesiat Ajnabi aor Begaanah logoun ki hogee "



Citizen X sahib aik hamara firqa reh gaya hai jis ko aaj ye hesiat haasil hai ajnabi aor beganaah honay ki magar Allah ki shaan dekhein k kis tarah unn k munn se haq kehalwa diya aor inn laantein daalnay waaloun ki taraf se khuda ne humein duaaein dilwa deen. Khuda ki taqdeer ne zabardasti unn k munn se Humein rehmatein dilwa deen.


Hazoor Pbuh ki hadees hai k Islam Ghurbar se shuru hua tha phir Ghareeb hojaey ga jesa k pehlay ghareeb tha
" Fatoobil Ghurba "
Puss Khushkhabreean aor Mubarkein houn unn ghuraba ko jo Aakhri Zamama mein Islam ki khaatir Ghareeb ul Wattan hojaein ge aor Ghareeb kehlaein ge. Issi hawalay mein Tarjumaan ul Quran likhta hai :


" Puss Jo jamaat Mehuz apni Aksareeat ki Bina per Apne Aap ko Jamaat qaraar de rahi hai jis per Allah ka haath hai.... iss k liye tou iss hadees mein umeed ki koi kiran naheen kyun k iss hadees mein iss jamaat ki 2 Alaamtein numayaan torr per bayaab ker di gaee hein aik tou ye k woh Aanhazrat Pbuh aor Aap k Sahaba RA k tareeq per hogee dusri ye k nehayat Aqleeat mein hogee . "

(Tarjumaan al Quran Sept Oct 1945 page 175 176 volume 27, shumara 3, martaba 4 Syed Abul Aala Modoodi)



In 1952 Molvi Akhtar Ali Khan Son of Moulwi Zafar Ali Khan ne Jub Ahmadioun k Khilaaf Tehreek chalaee gaee tou berhay Fakhar se ye baat Pesh ki. Wo kehtay hein :


" Majlis e Amal ne Guzashta 1300 saal ki tareekh mein dusri martaba Ijmah e Ummat ka Moqa Mohaeea kiya hai. Aaj Mirza e Qadianiat ki Mukhalfat mein Ummat k 72 firqay Mutahidd o Mutafiqq hein. Hanafi aor Wahabi, Deobandi, Barelwi Shia, Sunni, Ehl e Hadees sub k Ulema, Tamaam Peer aor Tamaam Soofi iss mutaaleba per mutafiqq o muttahid hein k Mirzaee Kaafir hein aor Unhein Unhein Musalmaanoun se aik Alehda Aqleeat Qaraar dou. "

(" Zameendaar" 5th november , 1952 , page number 2 column number 4)

Yaani 72 firqay Musalmaan aor Aik Gher muslim hai jo Naari (Jahanummi) hai.



1974 mein Nawa e Waqt Lahore ne berhee Khushi se aor berhay fakhar k saath
" 72 firqoun ka Ijmah " ki headline k saath Eelaan kiya.

Citizen X dekhein kis tarah Khuda Jhoota kerta hai logoun ko. Unn ko pata he nai lagta k khuda ki taqdeeer hum se kya khel khel rai hai.

Quran mein Allah says :

" Allah unkay Maqroun aor Unn ki Tadbeeroun ko Unn per ulta deta hai "


So Nawa e Waqt ka ye Note Issi Haqeeqat ki Ghumaazi kerta hai :


" Islam ki Saari Tareekh mein iss qadar pooray tourr per kisi ehum masla per kabhi Ijmah e Ummat nai hua. Ijmah e Ummat mein mulk k sub berhay se berhay Ulema e Deen aor Haamilaan e Sharra Mateen k Ilawa Tamaam Sayasi leader aor Har group ka Sayasi Rahnuma Kama Haqqa Mutaffiq huay hein. Aor Soofiya e Karaam aor Aarfeen e Billah Burgazeedgaan e Tasawwuf wa Tareeqat ko bhee poora poora ittefaq hua hai. Qadiani firqa ko choarh ker jo bhee 72 firqay musalmaanoun k btaey jaatay hein sub k sub iss mas-ala k iss hal per mutaffiq aor khush hein. "
(Nawa e Waqt 2nd October 1974 page 4)



Citizen X sahib,

Kya iss baat per khush hein k hum Bahattar (72) hein jo pehlay apne aap ko aik kaha kertay thay aor gheroun ki taraf ungli utha k kya kaha shia aor kya sunni kaha kertay thay k tum 72 ho aor hum wo 1 firqa hein jo jannati.

Ab dekhiay Taqdeer ne kya khel khela. Unhoun ne newspapers mein headlinen jama deen aor fakhar se eelaan kiya k hum 72 hein aor Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS ki jamaat wo 1 hai.

" Wo 1 hai , Wo aik hai "



Puss Khuda ki kasan! Agar wo 1 hai aor tum 72 ho tou phir tumhara fatwa nai chalay ga. Fatwa Hazrat Aqdas Mohammad Mustafa Pbuh ka chalay ga aor koi Maa naheen hai jis ne koi aesa bacha peda kiya ho jo mohammad e mustafa Pbuh k fatway ko ghalat qaraar de ya issay ulta sakay.

Yaad rakho! 7 September 1974 ka din tumharay liye Raat bun ker Aaya hai aor hamaray liye iss din Roshni ka aik Suraj Talooh hua hai jis ne Ahmadiyyat ko Baqa unn Noor Bana diya. Tum ne tou ikhthay ho ker Apne haathoun se ye Faisla dai diya hai k aaj Mohammad e Mustafa Pbuh ki Peshgoee poori hui aor choonkay tum issi faisla mein Aanhazrat Pbuh k nikaalay huay Nateeja ki taqzeeb k murtakib huay iss liye wo peshgoee aor bhee zayada shaan se poori hui. Tumhari iss Zaalmana Rawish ne ye Faisla ker diya k Tum Jhootay ho kyun k tum ne wo nateeja nikaala hai jo mohammad e mustafa pbuh k nikaalay huay nateeja se mukhaakif hai.


Puss ye hai tumhari Aksareeat aor ye hai Tumhari Aksareeat ki Hesiat. Iss Aksareeat ki humein aik Korhee Barabar Parwah nai kyun k iss Aksareeat ki Hamaray Aaqa o Mola Mohammad e Mustafa SAW ko koi parwah naheen.

Tum ne humein Mohammad e Mustafa Pbuh se kaatne k liye ye Iqdaam kiya tha magar iss din ne tou Hamesha k liye Hamara pewand Hazrat Mohammad Mustafa Pbuh se aor bhee zayada Pakka ker diya.

Agar tum Sachay ho Naoozbillah min Zaalik aor Mohammad e Mustafa Pbuh Naoozbillah min Zaalik ghalat hein tou humein wo 1 bunn-na manzoor hai jo ghalat ho ker bhee hanaray Aaqa Mohammad e Mustafa Pbuh k saath rehta hai humein hargizz ye manzoor naheen hai k hum unn 72 k saath shaamil houn jo hamaray Aaqa o Mola Mohammad Mustafa Pbuh ko manzoor naheen. Iss liye jhoota kaho ge. Tub bhee hum apne aaqa mohammad e mustafa Pbuh k saath rahein ge. Sacha kaho ge tou phir tou hum hein he sachay. Iss liye ab nikal k dikhao iss rah se. Khud tumhara bichaya hua Daam hai jis ne tumhein gher liya hai. Aik bhee tum mein se baaqi na raha. Shia Sunni kabhi wehum bhee nai ker saktay thay k saaray mutafiqq hojaein ge k wo sub apne ikhtalaaf e aqaid k bawajood iss mas-ala per mutaffiq hein aor ye k unn k buzurgoun k saaray fatway jhootay hein. Iss din Khuda ne Azeem ush Shaan Fatah ka Sooraj Hamaray liye Tulu Farmaya. Hum iss par Raazi hein.

Allah Huma Sall e Alla Mohammadin Wa Aalay Mohammad Wa baarik Wasallam inna ka Hameed dum Majeed.
 

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Messiah of Last time was supposed to reform Islam and revive it in its original form through divine guidance of Allah almighty.

If you have the Brain of the size of a peanut than you should know that in the world of 1900 where there were hundreds of countries your message could only be sent worldwide through your writings. And if He As wrote nothing than you and people like you would have said that Whatever Ahmadi's say that He As claimed there is no proof of that and Ahmadi's lie upon the person in whom they believe.


From BudRasoomaat of Marriage and Death, from denouncing Muttah, from challenging Vaid faith of Hindus, pronouncing Hazrat Eesa As as dead from Quran o Hadees, challenging Court marriages concepts, suspending Jehaad bil Saif unless fighting for your country's freedom defense, Reviving real teachings of Islam on Apostasy and Blasphemy all this needed to be documented for the world. Furthermore the Mubahilla's with Hindus needed to be be documented aswell and so for the Manaazraas and Aarya Samaaj.


Hazur Pbuh was a Law bearing Prophet and Quran was revealed on He Pbuh. So he pbuh needed not to write any other book neither he was ordered by Allah to do so. Because a Complete religion and last religion was revealed upon him Pbuh.


Where as Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS was not a law bearing Prophet and Islam and Quran are and were last Religions and Last Holy Book. And with Last Sheraee Nabi Pbuh the need for Law bearing Shareeat and revelation ceased and terminated by the wish and order of Allah almighty.


Hazur AS only and only did religious poetry and many muslims accepted him after getting the message through his poetry aswell. Because you raise questions at Mirza Sahib's being A poet trying to ridicule him in a capacity that Poets are liars and No prophet ever did Poetry than have the audacity to read Arabic Couplets of He Pbuh and dare to question He Pbuh aswell. After those couplets the non believers and otherwisr also used to call he pbuh as a poet, a magician and a liar and read the verses of Holy Qur'an where Allah said what about there allegations ? ? So if you want to rasie the same allegations on Mirza sahib as Jews and Christians used to raise on He Pbuh than you are most welcome. Carry On.




Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat was named Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat in early 20th century because of only 1 reason and that was that Census had to be conducted in order to determine our number. We believe that We are the 73rd sect of Islam. Also many renowned Islamic scholars of past gave Nishaani of that 73rd sect to be a Jamaat. Don't be lazy Man dependent upon Spoon feeding and search and read who who mentioned that sect as a Jamaat more than 150 years ago and before that time.


As far as Uk gov is unconcerned we are Law Abiding Muslim Citizens of every country except for those laws which try to stop us from Islamic Injunctions and Worshipping/Ibaadaat(Pakistan) so if Uk gov currently has reservation over our planned construction than we are fine. We would adress their concerns and whatever limits Gov will allow us we will build it acvordingly. It is neither deewaar e cheen nor a matter of our faith or religious belief which will fall if we dont get permission.


You believe we are a Cult, We will vanish if no chanda etc etc. Believe whatever you want. Its your right. But despite government stading against us We are standing tall alhamdoulillah and progressing well. Alhamdoulillah. If you or anybody has the power than Ye Chanday ka Nizaam khatam ker k dikhao ya Ahmadiat ko Mitta k dikhao. Come On. 127 saal se Tamaam mukhalfeen k tamaam harbay naakaam huay aaenda bhee houn ge inshaAllah Allah k fazal se. Aeyrheean Ragrho aor Maathay ghissao Sajdoun mein Allah k aagay k jisay tum fitna aor cult samajhtay ho wo mitt jaey. Zayada se zayada tum Apostasty k naam pe Ahmadioun ka Nahaq khoon baha rahay ho 127 saal se. Shaheed ker rahay ho apni janaab se jahanumm raseed kerne ka soch k so matt aao baaz. Ahmadiat nai mitti, hamaray diloun se La ilaha illalah mohammad ur Rasool Allah na Mitta sakay na mitta sako ge inshaAllah Taala. Per Khuda ki Taqdeer se darro. Dunya ya Aakhrat ki Pakarh se darro.


Aor tum meray Aqaid pe aetraaz kero ge tou mein apne literature se tumhein jawaab dun ga khoa apne ilfaaz ya copy paste.


Aor jo daleelein Quran o Hadees se dun ga tou just reference b dey sakta kyun k yahan screenshot Copy paste nai ker sakta. So kaakay na bano aap aor khud perho.





" He Pbuh ne farmaya meri ummat pe bhee wo Haalaat aaein ge jo Bani Israel per Aaey thay jin mein aesi mutaabqat hogee jesay aik paoon k jootat ki dusray paoon k jootay se hoti hai yahan tak k agar unn mein se koi apni maa se bhee budkaari ka murtakib hua tou meri ummat mein se koi aesa budbakht nikal aaey ga. Bani Israel 72 firqoun mein butt gaey thay meri ummat 73 firqoun mein butt jaey gee lekin aik firqa k siwa baaqi sub jahanumm mein jaein ge sahaba RA ne pucha ye Naaji firqa kon sa hoga ? Hazur Pbuh ne farmaya jo forqa meri aor meray sahaba RA ki sunnat per amal pera hoga "
(Tirmazi Abwaab up Eemaan, Baab Ifteraaq haazal ummata volume 2, page 88,89)


Ya jis k haalaat meray aor meray Sahaba RA jesay houn ge. Ye dono maanay hein yaani jis haal per tum mujhay aor meray sahaba RA ko paatat ho iss firqay ko iss haal pe paao ge. Jin khayalaat o aqaid per mujhay aor meray sahaba ko paatat ho unn khayalaat aor aqaid per agar kisi firqay ko Paao ge tou wo meray waala firqa hai aor wohi naaji firqa hai.



1. Hazrat Imam mohamaad bin Abdul Wahaab RT aik bohat berhay mouhid buzurg guzray hein. Musalmaan hajaaz ki bhaari taadaad unhein mujaddid maanti hai. Wo iss Hadees k mutaliq apni kitaab (Mukhtasirr Seerat e Rasool Page 18 matbooya Qaira) mein likhtay hein


" Yaani 73 mein se 72 k Naari aor 1 k jannati honay ka masla aik aze ushaan masla hai jo issay samajhta hai wohee fiqaheea hai aor jo iss per amal kerta hai. Yaani 72 firqoun ko Amalan naari aor 1 ko jannati karaar deta hai sirf aor sirf wohi musalmaan hai."

Yaani imam mohammad bin abdul wahab ne yahan musalmaan ki tareef yahan pohanch ker ye kerdi k ye hadees itni ehum hai aor He pbuh ne iss mein jo masla pesh kiya hai wo itni ehmiat ka haamil hai k jo shakhs iss ko tasleem nai kerta aor iss per amal nai kerta aor ye maanta hai k haan jub ummat e muslima firqoun mein butt jaey gee tou 72 naari aor 1 jannati hoga aor wohi hai jo musalmaan hai aor dusra musalmaan he koi nai.



2. Shaareh Mishkaat aor Fiqa e Hanfi k Musallima Aalim Hazrat Imam Mulla Ali Qaari Rt 73 firqoun waali hadees e nabwi pbuh ki sharah mein likhtay hein :


" Puss ye 72 firqay sub k sub Aag mein houn ge aor Naaji firqa wo hai jo roshan sunnat e mohammadiya aor pakeeza tareeqa e ahmadiyya per qayem hai "

(Miqaatul Maateeh tee Sharra Mishkaat al Masabeeh volume 1 page 448)


Kitne Azeem us Shaan Buzurg thay aor kesay Taaluq Billah waalay loug thay aik peshgoee per aik aor peshgoee ker rahay hein aor khoob khol ker bata rahay hein k wo mohammiya firqa ahmadiyya firqa k aesay rastay per hoga jo kaheen aor tumhein nazar naheen aaey ga.



Iss Hadees ko Musalmaanoun k Har Garoh ne Tasleem kiya aor wo issay aone ooper Jispaan kertay rahay. Shia kehtay hein k wo aik firqa hum hein aor baaqi saaray firqay 72 mein shaamil hein jub k sunni kehtay hein k naheen hum hein wo 1 firqa.



3. Aik Shia Mujtahidd issi hadees ka hawala dey ker likhtay hein k


" Shoa Hazrat Ali RA ko khalifa bila fasal baad peghambar aakhir uz zamaan pbuh k jaantay hein aor unkay baad unki aolaad se 11 farzan imam mehdi aakhir uz zamaan As takk yakkay baad deegarray khalifa tul rasool aor imam barhaqq maantay hein. Lekin baaqi 72 firqay pehla khalifa abu bakar, dusra umar, teesra usman chotha Ali As ko jaantay hein "

Iss kisum ki aor bhee Alaamtein bayaan kerne k baad aakhir per likhtay hein :

" khulasa : Tamaam Asool aor Faro mein yehi aik shia firqa 72 firqoun se alehda hai jis ka joarh kisi surat mein unn k saath naheen ho sakta. Kyun k berhay berhay masael asool o faro mein unn ka sakht ikhtalaaf hai. Iss liye tamaam islami firqay islami firqa Shia ko mukhaalif samajhtay hein. Lekin Hadees Mazkoora k mutaabiq yehi aik firqa baaqi firqoun se bilkul juda honay ki wajah se naaji aor bahishtee hai "
(Fatawa haaera part 2, Az afadaat e Aaliya hujja tul islam wal muslameen sadr ul mufsareen sultan ul mohadeseen mohai ul millat ............. alama syed haaeri sahib qibla mujtahid ul asar uz zamaan bar 3 page 5,6)



4. Jamaat e Islami ka mashoor organ Tarjumaan ul Quran hai wo iss hadees ko tasleem kertay huay iss per likhtay hein :


" Islam mein na Aksareeat ka kisi baat per mitaffiq hona iss k haq honay ki daleel hai na Aksareeat ka naam Soda e Azam hai.
(Berhee Khul ker baat ki hau) Na her bheerh Jamaat k hukum mein Daakhil hai aor Na kisi muqaam k Moulvioun ki kisi Jamaat ka kisi Raaey ko Ikhtayaar ker lena Ijmah hai.... Iss matlub ki Taeed iss Hadees e Nabwi Pbuh se hoti hai jo Abdullah Bin Umroo se Baeen Ilfaaz marwi hai (the hadees i have mentioned above) Bani Israel 72 firqoun mein butt gaee thee aor meri ummat 73 mein butt jaey gee jo sub k sub jahannum mein perh jaein ge bajuzz aik k. "


Iss k baad Tarjumaan ul Quran likhta hai :


" Ye Garoh na kasrat mein hoga na apni kasrat ko apne barhaq honay ki daleel thehraey ga balkay iss ummat k 73 forqoun mein se aik hoga. Aor iss Maamoor Dunya mein iss ki Hesiat Ajnabi aor Begaanah logoun ki hogee "



Citizen X sahib aik hamara firqa reh gaya hai jis ko aaj ye hesiat haasil hai ajnabi aor beganaah honay ki magar Allah ki shaan dekhein k kis tarah unn k munn se haq kehalwa diya aor inn laantein daalnay waaloun ki taraf se khuda ne humein duaaein dilwa deen. Khuda ki taqdeer ne zabardasti unn k munn se Humein rehmatein dilwa deen.


Hazoor Pbuh ki hadees hai k Islam Ghurbar se shuru hua tha phir Ghareeb hojaey ga jesa k pehlay ghareeb tha
" Fatoobil Ghurba "
Puss Khushkhabreean aor Mubarkein houn unn ghuraba ko jo Aakhri Zamama mein Islam ki khaatir Ghareeb ul Wattan hojaein ge aor Ghareeb kehlaein ge. Issi hawalay mein Tarjumaan ul Quran likhta hai :


" Puss Jo jamaat Mehuz apni Aksareeat ki Bina per Apne Aap ko Jamaat qaraar de rahi hai jis per Allah ka haath hai.... iss k liye tou iss hadees mein umeed ki koi kiran naheen kyun k iss hadees mein iss jamaat ki 2 Alaamtein numayaan torr per bayaab ker di gaee hein aik tou ye k woh Aanhazrat Pbuh aor Aap k Sahaba RA k tareeq per hogee dusri ye k nehayat Aqleeat mein hogee . "

(Tarjumaan al Quran Sept Oct 1945 page 175 176 volume 27, shumara 3, martaba 4 Syed Abul Aala Modoodi)



In 1952 Molvi Akhtar Ali Khan Son of Moulwi Zafar Ali Khan ne Jub Ahmadioun k Khilaaf Tehreek chalaee gaee tou berhay Fakhar se ye baat Pesh ki. Wo kehtay hein :


" Majlis e Amal ne Guzashta 1300 saal ki tareekh mein dusri martaba Ijmah e Ummat ka Moqa Mohaeea kiya hai. Aaj Mirza e Qadianiat ki Mukhalfat mein Ummat k 72 firqay Mutahidd o Mutafiqq hein. Hanafi aor Wahabi, Deobandi, Barelwi Shia, Sunni, Ehl e Hadees sub k Ulema, Tamaam Peer aor Tamaam Soofi iss mutaaleba per mutafiqq o muttahid hein k Mirzaee Kaafir hein aor Unhein Unhein Musalmaanoun se aik Alehda Aqleeat Qaraar dou. "

(" Zameendaar" 5th november , 1952 , page number 2 column number 4)

Yaani 72 firqay Musalmaan aor Aik Gher muslim hai jo Naari (Jahanummi) hai.



1974 mein Nawa e Waqt Lahore ne berhee Khushi se aor berhay fakhar k saath
" 72 firqoun ka Ijmah " ki headline k saath Eelaan kiya.

Citizen X dekhein kis tarah Khuda Jhoota kerta hai logoun ko. Unn ko pata he nai lagta k khuda ki taqdeeer hum se kya khel khel rai hai.

Quran mein Allah says :

" Allah unkay Maqroun aor Unn ki Tadbeeroun ko Unn per ulta deta hai "


So Nawa e Waqt ka ye Note Issi Haqeeqat ki Ghumaazi kerta hai :


" Islam ki Saari Tareekh mein iss qadar pooray tourr per kisi ehum masla per kabhi Ijmah e Ummat nai hua. Ijmah e Ummat mein mulk k sub berhay se berhay Ulema e Deen aor Haamilaan e Sharra Mateen k Ilawa Tamaam Sayasi leader aor Har group ka Sayasi Rahnuma Kama Haqqa Mutaffiq huay hein. Aor Soofiya e Karaam aor Aarfeen e Billah Burgazeedgaan e Tasawwuf wa Tareeqat ko bhee poora poora ittefaq hua hai. Qadiani firqa ko choarh ker jo bhee 72 firqay musalmaanoun k btaey jaatay hein sub k sub iss mas-ala k iss hal per mutaffiq aor khush hein. "
(Nawa e Waqt 2nd October 1974 page 4)



Citizen X sahib,

Kya iss baat per khush hein k hum Bahattar (72) hein jo pehlay apne aap ko aik kaha kertay thay aor gheroun ki taraf ungli utha k kya kaha shia aor kya sunni kaha kertay thay k tum 72 ho aor hum wo 1 firqa hein jo jannati.

Ab dekhiay Taqdeer ne kya khel khela. Unhoun ne newspapers mein headlinen jama deen aor fakhar se eelaan kiya k hum 72 hein aor Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS ki jamaat wo 1 hai.

" Wo 1 hai , Wo aik hai "



Puss Khuda ki kasan! Agar wo 1 hai aor tum 72 ho tou phir tumhara fatwa nai chalay ga. Fatwa Hazrat Aqdas Mohammad Mustafa Pbuh ka chalay ga aor koi Maa naheen hai jis ne koi aesa bacha peda kiya ho jo mohammad e mustafa Pbuh k fatway ko ghalat qaraar de ya issay ulta sakay.

Yaad rakho! 7 September 1974 ka din tumharay liye Raat bun ker Aaya hai aor hamaray liye iss din Roshni ka aik Suraj Talooh hua hai jis ne Ahmadiyyat ko Baqa unn Noor Bana diya. Tum ne tou ikhthay ho ker Apne haathoun se ye Faisla dai diya hai k aaj Mohammad e Mustafa Pbuh ki Peshgoee poori hui aor choonkay tum issi faisla mein Aanhazrat Pbuh k nikaalay huay Nateeja ki taqzeeb k murtakib huay iss liye wo peshgoee aor bhee zayada shaan se poori hui. Tumhari iss Zaalmana Rawish ne ye Faisla ker diya k Tum Jhootay ho kyun k tum ne wo nateeja nikaala hai jo mohammad e mustafa pbuh k nikaalay huay nateeja se mukhaakif hai.


Puss ye hai tumhari Aksareeat aor ye hai Tumhari Aksareeat ki Hesiat. Iss Aksareeat ki humein aik Korhee Barabar Parwah nai kyun k iss Aksareeat ki Hamaray Aaqa o Mola Mohammad e Mustafa SAW ko koi parwah naheen.

Tum ne humein Mohammad e Mustafa Pbuh se kaatne k liye ye Iqdaam kiya tha magar iss din ne tou Hamesha k liye Hamara pewand Hazrat Mohammad Mustafa Pbuh se aor bhee zayada Pakka ker diya.

Agar tum Sachay ho Naoozbillah min Zaalik aor Mohammad e Mustafa Pbuh Naoozbillah min Zaalik ghalat hein tou humein wo 1 bunn-na manzoor hai jo ghalat ho ker bhee hanaray Aaqa Mohammad e Mustafa Pbuh k saath rehta hai humein hargizz ye manzoor naheen hai k hum unn 72 k saath shaamil houn jo hamaray Aaqa o Mola Mohammad Mustafa Pbuh ko manzoor naheen. Iss liye jhoota kaho ge. Tub bhee hum apne aaqa mohammad e mustafa Pbuh k saath rahein ge. Sacha kaho ge tou phir tou hum hein he sachay. Iss liye ab nikal k dikhao iss rah se. Khud tumhara bichaya hua Daam hai jis ne tumhein gher liya hai. Aik bhee tum mein se baaqi na raha. Shia Sunni kabhi wehum bhee nai ker saktay thay k saaray mutafiqq hojaein ge k wo sub apne ikhtalaaf e aqaid k bawajood iss mas-ala per mutaffiq hein aor ye k unn k buzurgoun k saaray fatway jhootay hein. Iss din Khuda ne Azeem ush Shaan Fatah ka Sooraj Hamaray liye Tulu Farmaya. Hum iss par Raazi hein.

Allah Huma Sall e Alla Mohammadin Wa Aalay Mohammad Wa baarik Wasallam inna ka Hameed dum Majeed.


First of so you don't accuse me later of anything. I have read everything you wrote. now

This whole long post has only points. One is the regular overplayed and overused card of the Qadianis, of look at poor old us. We are so down trodden and big old Pakistan has been so mean to us. Although I have no idea what this has to do in the context of our current argument.

Second ignoring the huge treasure of authentic sahih Hadith we have, Qadianis concentrate on a very few select one, which after distortions in translations and huge verbal gymnastics they try to fit it into their belief systems and yet fail

Here we have this one Hadith which has been repeated over and over again

Abdullah bin Amr narrated:“The Prophet (saw) said: “My Ummah will face what bani Israel faced step by step, even if one of them approached his mother publicly (sexually) there will be one of my Ummah will approach his mother.
And verily the Bani Israel divided into seventy two sects and my nation would divide into seventy three sects all are to hell except one (sect).“ We asked “which one is saved?” the Prophet (saw) said: “Those who remain on which I and my companions remain” (Tirmidhi: 2651)


1st. Qadianis claim to be that one special sect that will go to paradise. Well I've been asking a simple question many times overs with absolutely no answer, as to which one of many sect of the Qadianis is that supposed sect. I still haven't gotten an answer to that.

2nd. I have no clue as how the Qadianis can claim this validates their cult. "Those on who remain on which I and my companions are" I don't know about you but nazobilla I don't ever recall The Prophet s.a.w and the sahaba following Ghulam Mirza or any of the laghiwiyat he wrote.

3rd. Today its is a consensus in the Muslim ummah and all its ulema and centers of learning is that Qadianis and all its sects are not in the fold of Islam, hence not muslims. To be any one of the 73 sects forget the one which is going to paradise the main requirement is you have to be Muslim first. Qadianis are not Muslims, regardless of what they claim.

Our Prophet s.a.w came after Isa a.s he did not call his followers Christians. Joseph Smith Jr also claims to be a prophet and they are not also not accepted as Christians by mainstream christianity but rather called Mormons.

Now Qadianis claim they have a prophet after our beloved s.a.w so with the same line of reasoning cannot be called and should not call themselves muslims also

They just distort twist and stretch these few hadiths which they think serve their cause while very conveniently ignore the many many others disproving the lies of GM. A small example:

[FONT=&amp]Sahih Bukhari Chapter No: 34,
Hadith no: 425
[/FONT]
Narrated: Abu Huraira
allah's apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, son of Mary Isa (Jesus) will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) as a just ruler and will break the Cross and kill the pig and abolish the Jizya (a tax taken from the non-Muslims, who are in the protection, of the Muslim government). Then there will be abundance of money and nobody will accept charitable gifts.


The hadith talks about Isa Ibn Maryam was GM son of Maryam? No he was the son of Chirag Bibi, altough he did claim he was Maryam himself and then became pregnant with Isa AS which according to him was also himself, Prophecy ?!?!? or rather the rantings of a man high on opium and booze, anyways thats besides the point here. Neither did GM abolish the jizya, not finish Christianity not rid us of pork. Nor was there an abundance of wealth so much so there will be no one left to accept zakat and sadaqah.

And by the way Gulam Mirza use to ( noazubilla ) make a lot of fun of this hadith ( and Ive seen qadianis also make fun of this hadith ) saying that of this is true then when Isa AS would come again, people will go to his house and ask where is Isa AS, members of his household have to gone to the forest to go kill pigs, is this the type of messiah people are waiting for and would burst into uncontrollable laughter so much so that tears would roll down his eyes. Is this is character of a man of God ? Let alone a so called prophet, this is nothing but blasphemy

Seerat ul Mahdi Page 809, article number 945. You can check it yourself here

https://archive.org/details/SeeratUlMahdi

And the funny thing is, with all the so called ulema qaram and all the khidmat, schools etc etc which the Qadianis fund, they have not been able to translate this book into English in the last 100 years. Khutbahs of their Khalifas on youtube are translated in a dozen or so languages minutes after he has delivered them but somehow the complete works of their Prophet, his sons and then his sahabas, translations cannot be found. So in a 100 years or so the jammat has not been able to translate the works of its founder, his sons and sahabas. No wonder its spread is so stunted. And majority I would say 90-95% of Qadianis are of Punjabi decent who have been Qadiani since generations now and usually belong to Qadian itself i.e jaddi phusti Mirzais, very few new members in this cult.

And of all the references of scholars cited by my friend

Mostly talk of the 73 sect Hadith trying to prove it is authentic or something of that sort. This is a moot point because no Muslim doubts the Hadith or has any qualms about it. Only the way as with most things Qadianis distort to fit their agenda. And Inshallah that also I have disproved above with 3 very simple points.

Once again there is a lot material presented but very little is relevant and even less is what can be consider a counter point of view or defense and if that very weak and easily debunked at that.

And in conclusion


Aor tum meray Aqaid pe aetraaz kero ge tou mein apne literature se tumhein jawaab dun ga khoa apne ilfaaz ya copy paste.
Aor jo daleelein Quran o Hadees se dun ga tou just reference b dey sakta kyun k yahan screenshot Copy paste nai ker sakta. So kaakay na bano aap aor khud perho.


Yes please do ! I have been literally asking you to do this for the last few posts. I am waiting.
















 
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