1 Question for PTI - Imran trash talks IMF & World Bank but his budget suggests otherwise

[gotti]

[MENTION=24375]AsifAmeer[/MENTION]

Nice catch and valid criticism.

I am glad they have started to let people off the hook, including the mods, regarding valid criticism of PTI. Silencing critics is a habit of authoritarian and totalitarian regimes of which we hope Imran wont be a leader.

Given that I have to make a comment about the economic policy since it is a thread regarding that and going off topic won't serve the purpose behind your thread, I have the following to say:

The only other logical solution is aid from a friendly country, which would be palatable to the supporters given that IMF and foreign aid is blasphemy.

If PTI supporters are suggesting that lobbies, both internal and external won't be at play and neither would a loan or aid, then, I am almost certain that their idea is to land him into Islamabad from outer space.

The other likelihood is that he is the second-coming of Christ and in that case, it would be better if he held a position in the GOP because thats the only way he'll get blind faith to work.

As long as logic and observation lives, there shall be criticism and his permission to allow that and respond to public opinion is the reason he has attracted so many followers, including yourself, to come on here and have your say.

No other party would permit that to happen for which credit goes to Mr. Khan. However, his fanatical, over-zealous supporters have started to become impediments in this very important democratic process, which can hurt him greatly as we have already witnessed in recent Gallup polls.

 

[arslan4u]

Arsalan, all those things you mentioned about raising taxes, have already been accounted for to bring the deficit from 8.4% to 4.1%. All that's already been counted into it.

I personally do not want to believe that Imran is "lying". Lekin having a fiscal deficit of $10 billion and not sharing with us how that will be financed, you tell me what I am supposed to make of this.

That's why i said ask a PTI official, try emailing Asad Umar or Jahangir Tareen.

 

[AsifAmeer]

You want a logical answer for an illogical questions. So not sure if I even wanna do that. But let me elaborate.

First of all. We are talking about PTI's projected budget deficit. We arent talking about the US, Japan, China, EU, or Russia. That would be a different topic, which you can freely discuss with me but not on this thread.

2ndly, Talk about the US budget deficit comparison with Pakistan after Pakistan has won WW3, has implement a world financial order and Rupee becomes the World reserve currency.

>>Can I ask you how any government is going to bridge this deficit?
Why a deficit in the 1st place? Do you run your house budget on a perpetual deficit?


>> What is QE
When Central Bankers cant go below ZERO on the federal funds rate, they go negative by buying up junk collateral in the financial REPO markets.

>>Why government around the world floats their short, medium and long term bonds?
Because they live beyond their means and then repay those short, medium and long term bonds by inflating their currencies.

>>Please let me know the name of countries who are in surplus budget?
Surplus is not a problem, but a symptom of a problem. Problem is the idea that an export based economy can bring sustainable prosperity. And to answer your question, Germany, Denmark, China and Some arab countries are running net surpluses. These surpluses will be marked as "bad debt" in an spectacular fashion within our life times.


PTI will not have the luxury to run a country in a textbook format. They cant run the Monetary matters in a status quo system. Some have accused me of teaching textbook economics here. Also everything I advocate goes against whats being taught at the Ivory towers...


I assure you fame isnt my only goal for this thread. Injection of a radical idea is. I see fame as a byproduct and I welcome it too!

Dear Asif,

You are genius... Lets assume Imran Khan lies and you being true and better economist can provide better answer to these.
Can I ask you how any government is going to bridge this deficit?
Please let me know the name of countries who are in surplus budget?
Please also let me know what is the budget deficit of the country you are living in and how they fill this gap?
Do we have any other source of getting loans like IMF, World Bank, ADB
What is QE (Quantitative Easing)?
Why government around the world floats their short, medium and long term bonds?

I hope you will provide logical answers and will not turn this into futile debate. If you will not provide answers to these questions, I would assume that all you are doing is to get attention on the forum as you know most people are PTI supporters. I would suggest not to use these things to get a cheap fame..

Thanks
Zaid

 

[AsifAmeer]

Aid's given to the disabled, the crippled, the unfortunate, the feeble.

Also, there's no such thing as a "friendly country". Unicorns are usually dressed up Rhinos. Rest of the time, its the perception of the viewer.

Remember, this is CONTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. I have listened to his social views and I share some of his ideas word-by-word, especially about decentralization of power. I do not want to see PTI fail in any aspect! Lets give HONESTLY AN HONEST CHANCE.

@AsifAmeer

Nice catch and valid criticism.

I am glad they have started to let people off the hook, including the mods, regarding valid criticism of PTI. Silencing critics is a habit of authoritarian and totalitarian regimes of which we hope Imran wont be a leader.

Given that I have to make a comment about the economic policy since it is a thread regarding that and going off topic won't serve the purpose behind your thread, I have the following to say:

The only other logical solution is aid from a friendly country, which would be palatable to the supporters given that IMF and foreign aid is blasphemy.

If PTI supporters are suggesting that lobbies, both internal and external won't be at play and neither would a loan or aid, then, I am almost certain that their idea is to land him into Islamabad from outer space.

The other likelihood is that he is the second-coming of Christ and in that case, it would be better if he held a position in the GOP because thats the only way he'll get blind faith to work.

As long as logic and observation lives, there shall be criticism and his permission to allow that and respond to public opinion is the reason he has attracted so many followers, including yourself, to come on here and have your say.

No other party would permit that to happen for which credit goes to Mr. Khan. However, his fanatical, over-zealous supporters have started to become impediments in this very important democratic process, which can hurt him greatly as we have already witnessed in recent Gallup polls.

 

[gotti]

Aid's given to the disabled, the crippled, the unfortunate, the feeble.

Also, there's no such thing as a "friendly country". Unicorns are usually dressed up Rhinos. Rest of the time, its the perception of the viewer.

Remember, this is CONTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. I have listened to his social views and I share some of his ideas word-by-word, especially about decentralization of power. I do not want to see PTI fail in any aspect! Lets give HONESTLY AN HONEST CHANCE.

Obviously, aid is always attached with strings of geopolitical interests but I disagree with the premise that imran khan has no such allegiances.

To me, if you read between the lines, in his speeches, he is supporting fdi from china and Russia, which is another form of "aid", not the classical form of "charity" such as USAID or now, the more recent alternate, CHINAAID.

I suggest you go over his speech in Karachi where he mentions foreign Pakistanis not bringing in their "wealth". Usually, we associate these two terms ("wealth" and "ex-pats") with the states but he used an odd example such as Russia.

To repeat what I said earlier, aid in the form of investment (given your analogy of unicorns, to me, it applies here, as well, not broadly, but only if you are to use the intent with which investments take place, globally) from China and Turkey, the two places he has visited thus far, will be acceptable to his followers.

However, aid and investment needs to be distinguished and I would agree with you in advance, before you correct me on that but as I have argued in previous posts, the only way to start an economy in Pakistan is to have indigenous manufacturing for export purposes along with entrepreneurial activity to get the country's economy rolling. Investment, alone won't do the trick.

I would hope that you make such suggestions using the tools of delivery available to you through your presence on different sites. Will they fall on deaf ears? Most likely, yes, but if it sticks and works, I won't rub it in your face or ask for returning the favor.

Now, in conclusion, to deal with the adjectives you applied to Pakistan out of pride and the relaization of "self", I have to request you to revisit and reconsider if they truly do apply to the country of your origin, or not.

 

[AsifAmeer]

Haan.. FDI... absolutely! ABSOLUTELY! FDI is good! And in NO WAY FDI = AID.

FDI is Investment. FDI is "Yes we find Pakistan Investment/trustworthy".

And I have no doubt FDI will grow once the situation gets security condition in Pakistan gets better.

I have noticed many times that people argue which being on the same side of the argument, just because they didnt agree on the definition of the terms being used. Its always best to have a clear view of terms being used.

Lekin what you have stated about targeting FDI... I am in complete agreement with you.

Investment over DEBT... anytime!

This way profits from a malinvestments arent guaranteed. If the investment goes bad, which some will.. lender share the risk. The more you disperse risk around, the better. I dont believe in risk trading..

Obviously, aid is always attached with strings of geopolitical interests but I disagree with the premise that imran khan has no such allegiances.

To me, if you read between the lines, in his speeches, he is supporting fdi from china and Russia, which is another form of "aid", not the classical form of "charity" such as USAID or now, the more recent alternate, CHINAAID.

I suggest you go over his speech in Karachi where he mentions foreign Pakistanis not bringing in their "wealth". Usually, we associate these two terms ("wealth" and "ex-pats") with the states but he used an odd example such as Russia.

To repeat what I said earlier, aid in the form of investment (given your analogy of unicorns, to me, it applies here, as well, not broadly, but only if you are to use the intent with which investments take place, globally) from China and Turkey, the two places he has visited thus far, will be acceptable to his followers.

However, aid and investment needs to be distinguished and I would agree with you in advance, before you correct me on that but as I have argued in previous posts, the only way to start an economy in Pakistan is to have indigenous manufacturing for export purposes along with entrepreneurial activity to get the country's economy rolling. Investment, alone won't do the trick.

I would hope that you make such suggestions using the tools of delivery available to you through your presence on different sites. Will they fall on deaf ears? Most likely, yes, but if it sticks and works, I won't rub it in your face or ask for returning the favor.

Now, in conclusion, to deal with the adjectives you applied to Pakistan out of pride and the relaization of "self", I have to request you to revisit and reconsider if they truly do apply to the country of your origin, or not.

 

[guest]

shame on you Aamir for pointing out the hypocrisy of Im the Dim and his band of faithful trolls. As if these people have any real conviction or any real ideology on any issue. its just an echo chamber with loud voices.

as the beyghairat brigade put it, they are just good-looking jamat-i-islami on social issues and better looking PMLN on economic issues. I especially dislike their stupid talk about corruption. Corruption of the right sort is thought of as an aid in growth of capitalism. what they should say is they will end all feudal style corruption and bring in big business corruption if they are serious.

 

[ZeeKhan]

Wow.. what a answer.

First of all. We are talking about PTI's projected budget deficit. We arent talking about the US, Japan, China, EU, or Russia. That would be a different topic, which you can freely discuss with me but not on this thread.

2ndly, Talk about the US budget deficit comparison with Pakistan after Pakistan has won WW3, has implement a world financial order and Rupee becomes the World reserve currency.

>>Can I ask you how any government is going to bridge this deficit?
Why a deficit in the 1st place? Do you run your house budget on a perpetual deficit?

You were saying me illogical to compare PTI Economic policy with other countries and you have compared this with house budget.. Good.. I am impressed with your wit.
>> What is QE
When Central Bankers cant go below ZERO on the federal funds rate, they go negative by buying up junk collateral in the financial REPO markets.
I know what it is.. and I intentionally put this to make you realize that this is how 4.7% deficit can be made.. Even UK is doing this so does US.. don't tell me that u cant compare Pakistan with these countries..

>>Why government around the world floats their short, medium and long term bonds?
Because they live beyond their means and then repay those short, medium and long term bonds by inflating their currencies.

This is also one of area which is used for making your budget deficit.. so world bank, IMF and ADB is not necessary..

>>Please let me know the name of countries who are in surplus budget?
Surplus is not a problem, but a symptom of a problem. Problem is the idea that an export based economy can bring sustainable prosperity. And to answer your question, Germany, Denmark, China and Some arab countries are running net surpluses. These surpluses will be marked as "bad debt" in an spectacular fashion within our life times.

I am not talking about import & export surplus.. its budget deficit... dear...


PTI will not have the luxury to run a country in a textbook format. They cant run the Monetary matters in a status quo system. Some have accused me of teaching textbook economics here. Also everything I advocate goes against whats being taught at the Ivory towers...


I assure you fame isnt my only goal for this thread. Injection of a radical idea is. I see fame as a byproduct and I welcome it too![/QUOTE]

 

[AsifAmeer]

you took "mincing words" to a whole new level here.

3 ways to fill the budget gap

1. Local borrowing - Crowd out the private sector
2. Money Printing/State Bank borrowing - i.e. Inflation
3. IMF

Choose one. And then we'll talk.

Wow.. what a answer.

First of all. We are talking about PTI's projected budget deficit. We arent talking about the US, Japan, China, EU, or Russia. That would be a different topic, which you can freely discuss with me but not on this thread.

2ndly, Talk about the US budget deficit comparison with Pakistan after Pakistan has won WW3, has implement a world financial order and Rupee becomes the World reserve currency.

>>Can I ask you how any government is going to bridge this deficit?
Why a deficit in the 1st place? Do you run your house budget on a perpetual deficit?

You were saying me illogical to compare PTI Economic policy with other countries and you have compared this with house budget.. Good.. I am impressed with your wit.
>> What is QE
When Central Bankers cant go below ZERO on the federal funds rate, they go negative by buying up junk collateral in the financial REPO markets.
I know what it is.. and I intentionally put this to make you realize that this is how 4.7% deficit can be made.. Even UK is doing this so does US.. don't tell me that u cant compare Pakistan with these countries..

>>Why government around the world floats their short, medium and long term bonds?
Because they live beyond their means and then repay those short, medium and long term bonds by inflating their currencies.

This is also one of area which is used for making your budget deficit.. so world bank, IMF and ADB is not necessary..

>>Please let me know the name of countries who are in surplus budget?
Surplus is not a problem, but a symptom of a problem. Problem is the idea that an export based economy can bring sustainable prosperity. And to answer your question, Germany, Denmark, China and Some arab countries are running net surpluses. These surpluses will be marked as "bad debt" in an spectacular fashion within our life times.

I am not talking about import & export surplus.. its budget deficit... dear...


PTI will not have the luxury to run a country in a textbook format. They cant run the Monetary matters in a status quo system. Some have accused me of teaching textbook economics here. Also everything I advocate goes against whats being taught at the Ivory towers...


I assure you fame isnt my only goal for this thread. Injection of a radical idea is. I see fame as a byproduct and I welcome it too!

[/QUOTE]

 

[arshypk]

And thats what I was expecting... circular logic.

Remember I wrote that AFTER taxes have been increased and bla bla.. Govt's deficit will be 4.5%. Its not me who's saying it, its PTI's Economic policy that's stating it.

Also, why do you have to think in a binary mode? Either I am with you or against you.. Life is much more complicated than that. Show me 1 article I have written in support of the IMF, the Dollar or the Banks? I can show you multiple articles against the Dollar, against the International Banking Mafia, and the State Bank of Pakistan!

If ur gonna accuse me of something, least you can do is show sincerity in your allegation. Cant you?

What I am trying to share here is that Imran needs to stop this political scoring and level with the Public. I greatly admire Asad Umer. He doesnt mince words. Maybe IK should learn a bit of verbal integrity from Asad. Or is Imran the new Holy cow?

Well I didn't get you what you are trying to say. Are you paving way for noras or pleeets. Tell me one thing honestly my reall brainless economist brother.... What do you want from Imran Khan? Prove him wrong when he is in the power and not performing. I tell you what, even if he delivers 50% of his promises, he would be a million times better then noras and pleets. So don't confuse stupid pakistani nation who votes for a bag of aata or 1 kg Cheeni with your pseudo intellectualism.

Aur mera bahi aap ko mirchain kis bat ki lug rahee hain. Es dafa vote aur support sirf Imran khan kay hain chahay wo kissi kalay choor say ittehad karay ya us ko sath milayay. Us ki hakkoomat aay gi tu panch sal bad faisla Karain gay Kay Imran khan nay theek Kia ya nahee. Abhi us becharay nay ellection bhi nahe lara aur aap loogoon ko her waqat wohee khatakta hay.

Mujay aik bat batao ....... na us banday nay kabee hakoomat ki na kabee wo power main aaya na kabhi us nay public office hold Kia na kabhi public ya tax money hold Kia tu khaar kis bat ki hay us say

 

[arshypk]

shame on you Aamir for pointing out the hypocrisy of Im the Dim and his band of faithful trolls. As if these people have any real conviction or any real ideology on any issue. its just an echo chamber with loud voices.

as the beyghairat brigade put it, they are just good-looking jamat-i-islami on social issues and better looking PMLN on economic issues. I especially dislike their stupid talk about corruption. Corruption of the right sort is thought of as an aid in growth of capitalism. what they should say is they will end all feudal style corruption and bring in big business corruption if they are serious.

I might not be a philosopher like you but still carry a little bit of common sense. You and few others which I can really count on my finger tips want to impose your will on rest of the 99.999999%. I like this term "troll" which has been floated by sick seculars and the status quo of Pakistan. We have two extremes in the country, one tiny minority at both ends one in the shape of Talibans and mullahs and 2nd in your shape. What about us in the middle? Are we supposed to be treated as sheeps and cows?

We are part of the most frustrated segment of the society who are being deprived of basic neccessaties of life and controlled by crooks and two tiny minorities. We see a ray of hope in the shape of Imran khan and don't want any crooks to spoil our hopes. If you call me a troll then so be it, but, I tell you one thing very loud and clear don't come in our way. If you want we can have logical and reasonable discussion on equal terms but if you come out with this kind of attitude then you should know what you deserve in reply.

If you have any passion for the country or the poor inhabitants of the country then answer me few things here
1. Do you think there is no issue with governance in Pakistan?
2. Do you think the system in place in Pakistan is delivering?
3. Do you think people can change or bring the change without changing system?
and finally
4. Name an alternate who can serve our cause better if not Imran khan?

I see no difference between you being part of status quo and Taliban or rest jihadees. If you consider yourself being the most educated and have great intellect then use some common sense and think what has brought us to this stage and what is the way out of it.

Aur mera bahi aap ko mirchain kis bat ki lug rahee hain. Es dafa vote aur support sirf Imran khan kay hain chahay wo jimat e islami ki tarah dikhay ya kalay choor ki tarah. Us ki hakkoomat aay gi tu panch sal bad faisla Karain gay Kay Imran khan nay theek Kia ya nahee. Abhi us becharay nay ellection bhi nahe lara aur aap loogoon ko her waqat wohee khatakta hay en nooroon aur pleeeets per nazar hi nahee perti

Mujay aik bat tu batao ....... na us banday nay kabee hakoomat ki na kabee wo power main aaya na kabhi us nay public office hold Kia na kabhi public ya tax money hold Kia tu khaar kis bat ki hay us say

 

[AsifAmeer]

Bas..? ye jawab hai tumhara?

Let me repeat the question for you apologists

Where's the deficit financing going to come from?
1. Local Banks?
2. State Bank (money printing)?
3. IMF?

Well I didn't get you what you are trying to say. Are you paving way for noras or pleeets. Tell me one thing honestly my reall brainless economist brother.... What do you want from Imran Khan? Prove him wrong when he is in the power and not performing. I tell you what, even if he delivers 50% of his promises, he would be a million times better then noras and pleets. So don't confuse stupid pakistani nation who votes for a bag of aata or 1 kg Cheeni with your pseudo intellectualism.

Aur mera bahi aap ko mirchain kis bat ki lug rahee hain. Es dafa vote aur support sirf Imran khan kay hain chahay wo kissi kalay choor say ittehad karay ya us ko sath milayay. Us ki hakkoomat aay gi tu panch sal bad faisla Karain gay Kay Imran khan nay theek Kia ya nahee. Abhi us becharay nay ellection bhi nahe lara aur aap loogoon ko her waqat wohee khatakta hay.

Mujay aik bat batao ....... na us banday nay kabee hakoomat ki na kabee wo power main aaya na kabhi us nay public office hold Kia na kabhi public ya tax money hold Kia tu khaar kis bat ki hay us say

 

[guest]

i hate debates where generic statements are bandied around like, do you think the system inpakistan is delivering? what does this even mean, unless you give me specific details about what you are gonno do when you come in. Unfortunately for Im the Dim and his band, when they make actual pronouncements about what they will do, someone like [MENTION=24375]AsifAmeer[/MENTION] catches them withFoot-in-mouth disease.

seconldy and lastly stop comparing me with the taliban. Ya we both may have ideas which belong to the two opposite fringes of pakistan society, but when did a "liberal Fascist" (love that word btw, whoever made it up is a first rate idiot) put on a suicide vest and go into Data darbar ad blow himself up? so stop doing what CNN does in america and calling everything even. and if you think we ARE even, I think you need ur head examined.

I might not be a philosopher like you but still carry a little bit of common sense. You and few others which I can really count on my finger tips want to impose your will on rest of the 99.999999%. I like this term "troll" which has been floated by sick seculars and the status quo of Pakistan. We have two extremes in the country, one tiny minority at both ends one in the shape of Talibans and mullahs and 2nd in your shape. What about us in the middle? Are we supposed to be treated as sheeps and cows?

We are part of the most frustrated segment of the society who are being deprived of basic neccessaties of life and controlled by crooks and two tiny minorities. We see a ray of hope in the shape of Imran khan and don't want any crooks to spoil our hopes. If you call me a troll then so be it, but, I tell you one thing very loud and clear don't come in our way. If you want we can have logical and reasonable discussion on equal terms but if you come out with this kind of attitude then you should know what you deserve in reply.

If you have any passion for the country or the poor inhabitants of the country then answer me few things here
1. Do you think there is no issue with governance in Pakistan?
2. Do you think the system in place in Pakistan is delivering?
3. Do you think people can change or bring the change without changing system?
and finally
4. Name an alternate who can serve our cause better if not Imran khan?

I see no difference between you being part of status quo and Taliban or rest jihadees. If you consider yourself being the most educated and have great intellect then use some common sense and think what has brought us to this stage and what is the way out of it.

Aur mera bahi aap ko mirchain kis bat ki lug rahee hain. Es dafa vote aur support sirf Imran khan kay hain chahay wo jimat e islami ki tarah dikhay ya kalay choor ki tarah. Us ki hakkoomat aay gi tu panch sal bad faisla Karain gay Kay Imran khan nay theek Kia ya nahee. Abhi us becharay nay ellection bhi nahe lara aur aap loogoon ko her waqat wohee khatakta hay en nooroon aur pleeeets per nazar hi nahee perti

Mujay aik bat tu batao ....... na us banday nay kabee hakoomat ki na kabee wo power main aaya na kabhi us nay public office hold Kia na kabhi public ya tax money hold Kia tu khaar kis bat ki hay us say

 

[AsifAmeer]

Liberal Facist huh? Is it like a female unicorn with balls of steal?

i hate debates where generic statements are bandied around like, do you think the system inpakistan is delivering? what does this even mean, unless you give me specific details about what you are gonno do when you come in. Unfortunately for Im the Dim and his band, when they make actual pronouncements about what they will do, someone like @AsifAmeer catches them withFoot-in-mouth disease.

seconldy and lastly stop comparing me with the taliban. Ya we both may have ideas which belong to the two opposite fringes of pakistan society, but when did a "liberal Fascist" (love that word btw, whoever made it up is a first rate idiot) put on a suicide vest and go into Data darbar ad blow himself up? so stop doing what CNN does in america and calling everything even. and if you think we ARE even, I think you need ur head examined.

 

[arshypk]

i hate debates where generic statements are bandied around like, do you think the system inpakistan is delivering? what does this even mean, unless you give me specific details about what you are gonno do when you come in. Unfortunately for Im the Dim and his band, when they make actual pronouncements about what they will do, someone like @AsifAmeer catches them withFoot-in-mouth disease.

seconldy and lastly stop comparing me with the taliban. Ya we both may have ideas which belong to the two opposite fringes of pakistan society, but when did a "liberal Fascist" (love that word btw, whoever made it up is a first rate idiot) put on a suicide vest and go into Data darbar ad blow himself up? so stop doing what CNN does in america and calling everything even. and if you think we ARE even, I think you need ur head examined.

Here we go again. I was expecting a lot better response from you but got really disappointed by reading what you came up with. I hope it wasn't the best you could do. Well I wasn't going to write a lacture here but now you are pushing me towards it. Let's start with idealogy....

Everyone has an idealogy he or she follows, some are aware of it and few others simply act ignorant to avoid being questioned. Let's get one thing straight. If it wasn't for difference of ideologies vis-a-vis religious and cultural, there wouldn't have been any two countries in this world or disputes between human beings. I don't mind adopting to best practices no matter where they come from but not at the expense of my religion and culture. When I talk about my religion or culture it doesn't mean I am ignorant or hold fundamental views. I will be more then happy to give up my ill habits and wrong doings for somthing noble, but taking a 180degree turn is not an option for me which you probably have done already.

So let me explain why I compared you with Taliban. Talibans and mullahs think that they are thaikaydars of religion and what they say or do is perfect and rest is all haram or forbidden. Liberals like yourself think that what they believe and how they turn into a coconut is the best way forward and rest negating you are all stupid, idiots, fundamentals and what not......... So correct me if I am wrong about you or if you perceive things any differently. I hate hypocrites and double standard people or douches so I am proud of being who I am and my idealogy, religion, culture and origin.

Now let me comeback to those questions I asked which you miserably faild to understand ;)so let me explain those again for you.

1. Do you think there is no issue with governance in Pakistan? or is Pakistan governed the way it is supposed to?
2. Do you think the system in place in Pakistan is delivering? Or is state of Pakistan providing its masses the means to live a balance and prosperous life on equal terms.
3. Do you think people can change or bring the change without changing system?
4. If you have to swim through an ocean with the help of some one and you have three people available whereas two have them have drowned you already who would be your best bet on third time round?
5. Name an alternate who can serve our cause better if not Imran khan?
6. What is your problem with PTI and Imran Khan?

I do apologies if I was too personal although you were very unreasonable with Im Dim band and then with my mental health. Do comeback to me if you still don't understand my questions.

 

[arshypk]

Bas..? ye jawab hai tumhara?

Let me repeat the question for you apologists

Where's the deficit financing going to come from?
1. Local Banks?
2. State Bank (money printing)?
3. IMF?

I am not an econimist but a banker. I didnt go through the PTI's economic policy that thoroughly the way you did so I can't comment on that in detail. What ever I went through, I understand that you have a point there and I agree there with you to some extent but not entirely. They might struggle for first year or so but after that I think they should be on the track.

Why are you deliberately not posting the fourth option which is foreign investment which will be comming in big numbers if and when they fix the rest of the issues such as corruption on top level, law and order and providing business friendly environment to foreign investors.

 

[guest]

despite all you wrtie, i am not at all convinced. if you want to use vague terms like religion and culture, you have to care to define it. the even worse aspect is that you have used them like they are a pair. as far as i have understood pakistan, themore religious you are getting, the less cultural and the more tribal you are becoming. when was it that you produced the last sitar player, or the last great painter, or the last kathak dancer, or the last film, or the last folk artist of international reputation? when did you produce the last great writer in urdu, or punjabi, or sindhi? even today india proudces more literature in urdu than pakistan and also the quality is much better, because the socio-political consciousness is much higher.

for you culture seems to be dadhi and hijab. otherwise you would neverhave made that cardinal mistake of using the phrase religion & culture. as far as religion is concerned, again how are you comparing me with the taliban? i am a disbeliever, but i never asked anyone else to adopt the same stand as i do. i may think u are a first rate idiot, if you are overtly religious, but why would I stop you from being religious. my only issue would be if you start imposing your religious views on me. so i still think u are making bogus comparisons. you are free to follow your "religion & culture", i dont know dont care. just dont come and tell me what i can or cannot do.

Here we go again. I was expecting a lot better response from you but got really disappointed by reading what you came up with. I hope it wasn't the best you could do. Well I wasn't going to write a lacture here but now you are pushing me towards it. Let's start with idealogy....

Everyone has an idealogy he or she follows, some are aware of it and few others simply act ignorant to avoid being questioned. Let's get one thing straight. If it wasn't for difference of ideologies vis-a-vis religious and cultural, there wouldn't have been any two countries in this world or disputes between human beings. I don't mind adopting to best practices no matter where they come from but not at the expense of my religion and culture. When I talk about my religion or culture it doesn't mean I am ignorant or hold fundamental views. I will be more then happy to give up my ill habits and wrong doings for somthing noble, but taking a 180degree turn is not an option for me which you probably have done already.

So let me explain why I compared you with Taliban. Talibans and mullahs think that they are thaikaydars of religion and what they say or do is perfect and rest is all haram or forbidden. Liberals like yourself think that what they believe and how they turn into a coconut is the best way forward and rest negating you are all stupid, idiots, fundamentals and what not......... So correct me if I am wrong about you or if you perceive things any differently. I hate hypocrites and double standard people or douches so I am proud of being who I am and my idealogy, religion, culture and origin.

Now let me comeback to those questions I asked which you miserably faild to understand ;)so let me explain those again for you.

1. Do you think there is no issue with governance in Pakistan? or is Pakistan governed the way it is supposed to?
2. Do you think the system in place in Pakistan is delivering? Or is state of Pakistan providing its masses the means to live a balance and prosperous life on equal terms.
3. Do you think people can change or bring the change without changing system?
4. If you have to swim through an ocean with the help of some one and you have three people available whereas two have them have drowned you already who would be your best bet on third time round?
5. Name an alternate who can serve our cause better if not Imran khan?
6. What is your problem with PTI and Imran Khan?

I do apologies if I was too personal although you were very unreasonable with Im Dim band and then with my mental health. Do comeback to me if you still don't understand my questions.

 

[AsifAmeer]

Glad to know that you arent an economist. We have something in common. Bet you my 3yr nephew has more commonsense than the "expert economists"

Strangely you call yourself a banker but failed to differentiate b/w Financing and Investment.

No one "invests" in negative returns or bad debt, unless you are listening to an "economist" who call t-bills as "risk-free"

I am not an econimist but a banker. I didnt go through the PTI's economic policy that thoroughly the way you did so I can't comment on that in detail. What ever I went through, I understand that you have a point there and I agree there with you to some extent but not entirely. They might struggle for first year or so but after that I think they should be on the track.

Why are you deliberately not posting the fourth option which is foreign investment which will be comming in big numbers if and when they fix the rest of the issues such as corruption on top level, law and order and providing business friendly environment to foreign investors.

 

[AsifAmeer]

Think I missed your post. I have tried to reply to every sane reply on this thread.

Went thru the report. It doesnt address PTI's deficit financing plan. The whole report.

You're saying that the deficit financing with be done thru the local banks? That is exactly what the current Govt is doing... How is that any different? Most's of the banking sector's profits are coming from carry trade on the interest spreads. Plus, if local financing will be used, then its gonna cause a crowd out effect. The private sector wont grow due to the crowding out of Govt deficit financing. theek? If the Private sector doesnt grow, you will see high unemployment, high welfare cost, more deficit spending .. more inflation and so on.

Just because other countries are doing, does not make it right.

Aur mein ne ye kabhi nahi kaha that ppl should vote for PPP or PML. Infact I specifically stated that in my thread. Reason for this thread is to bring awareness to people that they shouldnt idolize IK as the savior. Maintain hopes.. but realistic hopes. Same goes to IK. He needs to sober up too. Ye wala dentonic nahee chalay ga.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/45052795/26183528-Pakistan-s-Economy-and-the-Role-of-IMF-and-World-Bank
answer to your question is written in the last page of the link.

In addition we need IMF because of imbalance in international trade. Most of our foreign currency is taken out of country by illegal means. This is mainly done by corrupt mafia and status quo. With Imran in power corruption will fall and illegal transfer of Foreign currency is stopped than the deficit will be covered from internal loans. Another thing, you can't climb a mountain in one step. Every thing will improve gradually even your perception change will take time. Top level corruption can be eliminated immediately by changing corrupt person with an honest professional.

For all PTI supporters please don't blame a person raising genuine question, if you don't know please consult with some professional and reply as advised.

For Asif Ameer, no body is perfect. We tried PPP in 1970's, PML(N) & PPP in 1990's and also in 2008. My personal view is that if results are not good that means people we selected are unable to resolve the isssues. Therefore, in my opinion lets tray Imran Khan once. If he fail (I am sure he will not) than instead of giving him chance again we should look for a new leader. Because democracy works when we change the failed person with new one. If we continue with the old person than result will remains the same.