مذاہب کیوں نہیں بتاسکے کہ سورج گرہن کیوں لگتا ہے

Rambler

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
جی بلکل سائنس کی غلطیوں کو سائنس سدھارتی ہے، لیکن جب تک یہ سدھار واقع نہیں ہوتا، تب تک ہم سائنس کو عقیدہ نہیں بنا سکتے۔ اسی لیئے اصل سائنسدان ہمیشہ لرزتا رہتا ہے کہ کیا معلوم کل کو اسکا علم کتنا غلط ثابت ہوتا ہے؟ یہ صرف فضول کے فلاسفروں کا کام ہے جنھیں نہ سائنس کا علم ہوتا ہے اور نہ ہی مذہب کا اور ان دونوں کا مقابلہ کرواتے رہتے ہیں۔
سائنس میں تو ہر بات سائنسدانوں کے لیئے بھی مشکوک ہے

No scientist is ever larazta brother. Most of them are full of themselves. Just to give you an example when electron was discovered physicists believed that that was the end of physics.
 

Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
No scientist is ever larazta brother. Most of them are full of themselves. Just to give you an example when electron was discovered physicists believed that that was the end of physics.
I digress, with all due respect. I have yet to see someone who made a great leap and has credible work on his portfolio, acting like he has reached the alpha & omega of science

As knowledge increases, wonder deepens.

It is a fact that whenever a discovery is made, it brings new questions and quests. I don't know of any such event where after JJ Thomson's discovery of electron, any credible scientist had called it the mortuus finis of scientific discoveries. Perhaps you know of something that I don't; would be obliged if you may provide a reference in support of your statement.
 

Rambler

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I digress, with all due respect. I have yet to see someone who made a great leap and has credible work on his portfolio, acting like he has reached the alpha & omega of science

As knowledge increases, wonder deepens.

It is a fact that whenever a discovery is made, it brings new questions and quests. I don't know of any such event where after JJ Thomson's discovery of electron, any credible scientist had called it the mortuus finis of scientific discoveries. Perhaps you know of something that I don't; would be obliged if you may provide a reference in support of your statement.

Haughtiness and pride comes in various shapes. It’s not just an outwardly flamboyant appearance. Reading the history of science is not for everyone and you tend to miss out the nuances if you are not in the middle of things yourself or do not have a proper background and interest. Scientists are humans with their own biases, proclivities and failings.
 

Rambler

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
کوئی سائنسدان آپکو کبھی مذہب پر پھبتیاں کستے نظر نہیں آئے گا۔
سائنس کوئی دین یا مذہب نہیں۔ سائنس صرف کائنات کو جاننے کا ایک علمی طریقہ کار ہے، جو کہ خود ہی غلطیاں کرتا ہے اور پھر اپنی غلطیوں کو ہی درست کرنے کی کوشش میں لگا رہتا ہے۔ سائنس کی بنیاد ہی اسی بات پر ہے کہ اسمیں کوئی دلیل حتمی قرار نہیں دی جاسکتی۔

ایک چھوٹی سی مثال پیش کروں گا، کششِ ثقل کی: نیوٹن نے کششِ ثقل کا جو ماڈل دیا، اسے آئین شٹائین نے غلط ثابت کردیا۔ آئین شٹائین کی تھیوری جا کر قوانٹم میکینکس پر فیل ہوگئی اور اس نے ایک نیا ماڈل پیش کیا۔ اسکی تردید اسٹرنگ تھیوری نے کی اور اس کے بعد سوپر اسٹرنگ تھیوری آگئی۔ لیکن انسان کو آجتک سمجھ نہیں آئی کہ کششِ ثقل دراصل کیا ہے؟ کیا یہ ایک طاقت ہے یا کلیاتی مظہرِ صفات ہے؟

کہنے کا مقصد ہے کہ نیوٹن کے دور میں وہ سچ تھا، آئین شٹائین کے دور میں نیوٹن غلط ثابت ہوگیا۔ بعد از آئین شٹائین بھی غلط نکلا۔ کیا معلوم آج بھی جو کچھ سائنس مانتی ہے، کل کو وہ سب بھی غلط ثابت ہو؟
اسی لیئے کوئی بھی اصل سانسدان کبھی آپکو سائنسی عم کی بنیاد پر کسی مذہب پر حملہ آور نظر نہیں آئے گا، کیونکہ وہ خود اپنے علم کے بارے میں اندرونی طور پر تذبذب کا شکار ہوتا ہے، یعنی کہ غالبؔ کے الفاظ میں: دِل کو بہلانے کے لیئے ایک خیال لے آتا ہے۔

BTW Newton was never proven 'wrong'. Newton's discoveries and laws including law of gravity were and are still valid and used to build dynamic systems. EinShtein just extended it and ventured into new territories.
 

Wake up Pak

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Wake up Pak does this old worn out fart has some stuff on you that you allow him to boss you around and treat you like shit. Grow up man and tell this gas guzzler to shut up and mind his own business.
Citizen X telling me not to waste my time on the piece of shit that you are.
Should I believe him that you are full of shit, or do you have anything to say about your constipated brain?
 

Rambler

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Citizen X telling me not to waste my time on the piece of shit that you are.
Should I believe him that you are full of shit, or do you have anything to say about your constipated brain?

I apologize for trying to dignify you - You are one of his farts personified so you deserve such treatment. Stay smelly, stay fecal.
 

Wake up Pak

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
I apologize for trying to dignify you - You are one of his farts personified so you deserve such treatment. Stay smelly, stay fecal.
I knew your mental capacity but I always give you the benefit of the doubt, now it is crystal clear that you are full of shit and you belong in a toilet and need to be flushed down the toilet before you spew more shit.
 

Rambler

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I knew your mental capacity but I always give you the benefit of the doubt, now it is crystal clear that you are full of shit and you belong in a toilet and need to be flushed down the toilet before you spew more shit.

No my friend you can have the sewer to yourself and your mentor ejaculate. Good bye and enjoy your fecal feast.
 

Wake up Pak

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
No my friend you can have the sewer to yourself and your mentor ejaculate. Good bye and enjoy your fecal feast.
All I said was that the shit like you needs to be flushed down the toilet before you spread the shit in the society where you don't belong. Now deliver pizzas which you are good at or go in hiding in a jungle where an animal like you will be welcomed.
 

Rambler

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
All I said was that the shit like you needs to be flushed down the toilet before you spread the shit in the society where you don't belong. Now deliver pizzas which you are good at or go in hiding in a jungle where an animal like you will be welcomed.

Thanks for the advice sewer rat - Scumbags like you deserve to be treated like filth and thrown away at first contact. Your miserable skunk of an existence must always be kept at an arms length otherwise you start emitting stink. Now go and party with your partner the old fart. Ta ta !!!
 

Wake up Pak

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Thanks for the advice sewer rat - Scumbags like you deserve to be treated like filth and thrown away at first contact. Your miserable skunk of an existence must always be kept at an arms length otherwise you start emitting stink. Now go and party with your partner the old fart. Ta ta !!!
Oh No! All I said was that you do not belong in civilized society, but you have taken it to heart by showing your true colors and confirming that you belong in a jungle.
 

Rambler

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Oh No! All I said was that you do not belong in civilized society, but you have taken it to heart by showing your true colors and confirming that you belong in a jungle.

That's enough of an attention I can grant you for today sewer rat and you pathetic dull little existence is not very interesting. So stay happy stay filthy stay stinky.
 

Wake up Pak

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
That's enough of an attention I can grant you for today sewer rat and you pathetic dull little existence is not very interesting. So stay happy stay filthy stay stinky.
Go back to the jungle where you belong, you filthy animal.
 

Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
BTW Newton was never proven 'wrong'. Newton's discoveries and laws including law of gravity were and are still valid and used to build dynamic systems. EinShtein just extended it and ventured into new territories.
Perhaps studying the planet Mercury didn't do scientist's too good to understand the flaws in the Newtonian physics. Secondly, the elevator story/observation of Einstein perhaps did prove that gravity is a force. Perhaps I also need to go back to the school to learn the basics.

 

Rambler

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Perhaps studying the planet Mercury didn't do scientist's too good to understand the flaws in the Newtonian physics. Secondly, the elevator story/observation of Einstein perhaps did prove that gravity is a force. Perhaps I also need to go back to the school to learn the basics.


I think you are just not getting the point and it is an important point which needs to be understood by everyone as it applies to all kinds of knowledge and its application. Scientific theories and laws always work in a paradigm and frame of reference. Any theory / law that always works even within certain parameters can never be considered 'wrong' and certainly not Newton's theories on which classical physics is based and most of the engineering marvels that you see and experience everyday are built using it. New discoveries just extend that framework by giving out a more generalized version. I can give you numerous examples here but I am a lazy writer. However if you still have any doubt let me know and I will try to explain further. Just remember we will never be able to peel off all the layers of the onion hence every theory and law will have caveats and always will break down at the boundary (and the boundary may not be known for a long time).

P.S: Never learn about siense and teknology from newspaper stories as they always have to spice it up to gain attention of a maximum of their viewership.
 

Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
P.S: Never learn about siense and teknology from newspaper stories as they always have to spice it up to gain attention of a maximum of their viewership.
Actually I just put up a lookup reference for you, in easy language. My sources of learning are definitely not the newspapers, specially in this case.

However, in General Theory of Relativity (which Einstein crafted after Special Theory of Relativity), gravity had always been the epicenter of the paradigm, as only the Gen Theory has practical applications & this is why in every inertial frame of reference, gravity does exist in the form which Einstein described. Though, I can also refer you some books to acquaint yourself with the ideas of Classical and Modern Physics, but I guess this may not be the right place for it. We can always discuss the issues on some other thread dedicated for the subject.

To the subject matter of this thread, my thoughts are in consonance -- Science is just a trial & error method of learning about the Universe, through our limited capabilities of senses & thought processing. Therefore, it has other usages than providing the very foundations of a belief system. Though, it may provide us with some validating theories and facts about the religion, but it still falls short in its scope for defining all the stated and implied parameters of religion.