جماعت کا قاعدہ اور القاعدہ

[M Ali Khan]

http://urdu.dawn.com/2013/08/23/jamaat-morsi-alqaeda-and-democracy-am-abid-aq/

Friday 23 August 2013

عبدالمجید عابد







جنرل سیسی اور جنرل ضیاء میں کوئی خاص فرق نہیں اور دونوں ہی کے اقدامات قابل مذمت ہیں۔ ان دونوں واقعات میں ایک واضح فرق البتہ موجود ہے۔ پاکستان میں جمہوریت کے جنازے کو کندھا دینے والی جماعت آج مصر کے حالات پر احتجاج کرنے میں مصروف ہے — فائل فوٹو
​

وہ ملک بہت قربانیوں کے بعد فوجی آمریت کے عفریت سے چھٹکارا حاصل کر سکا تھا۔ نوجوانوں کی ایک بڑی تعداد نے آمریت کے خلاف تحریک میں حصہ لیا تھا۔ اس ملک کی تاریخ کے پہلے ’صاف شفاف‘ انتخابات کے نتیجے میں ایک جماعت نے واضح کامیابی حاصل کرلی۔


امریکہ اس نئی حکومت کو زیادہ پسند نہیں کرتا تھا، یہ اور بات کہ اس جماعت کے سربراہ نے کیلی فورنیا کی ایک یونیورسٹی سے تعلیم حاصل کی ہوئی تھی جس نے کچھ دیر صبر کا مظاہرہ کیا لیکن جلد ہی اقتدار کے نشے میں اس نے بھی آمر کا روپ دھار لیا۔


رفتہ رفتہ مذہبی جماعتوں کے جائز و ناجائز مطالبات مان لیے گئے اور اس سربراہ نے اپنے اقتدار کو طول دینے کی کوششیں شروع کر دیں۔ ایک موقعے پر جناب نے آئین کے ذریعے عدلیہ کی طاقت میں بھی کمی کی کوشش کی۔ ان کی ان حرکتوں سے تنگ آ کر ان کی جماعت کے خلاف ملک گیر ہنگامے شروع ہو گئے۔ حالات اتنے کشیدہ ہو گئے کہ فوج نے پھر سے اقتدار سنبھال لیا۔


ظلم کا ایک نیا دور طلوع ہوا۔ ہزاروں افراد کو غیر قانونی طور پر جیلوں میں بند رکھا گیا، ان پر ظلم کیا گیا اور کئی مقامات پر قتل عام بھی کیا گیا۔ طاقت سنبھالنے والے جرنیل نے بیان دیا کہ؛


’منتخب حکومت عوام کا اعتماد کھو بیٹھی ہے۔ فوج مداخلت نہ کرتی تو ملک خانہ جنگی کا شکار ہو جاتا۔ فوج ضرورت سے ایک دن بھی زیادہ بیرکوں سے باہر نہیں رہے گی۔ ملک میں بہت جلد نئے سرے سے انتخابات کروائے جائیں گے۔‘


اگر آپ سمجھ رہے ہیں کہ یہ مصر کی کہانی ہے تو آپ غلط سمجھ رہے ہیں، یہ پاکستان کی تاریخ کا ہی ایک باب ہے۔ فرق صرف اتنا ہے کہ پاکستان میں فوج کو آتے آتے چھہ سال لگ گئے اور مصر کی فوج ایک ہی سال میں اکتا گئی۔


جنرل سیسی اور جنرل ضیاء میں کوئی خاص فرق نہیں اور دونوں ہی کے اقدامات قابل مذمت ہیں۔ ان دونوں واقعات میں ایک واضح فرق البتہ موجود ہے۔ پاکستان میں جمہوریت کے جنازے کو کندھا دینے والی جماعت آج مصر کے حالات پر احتجاج کرنے میں مصروف ہے۔


جماعت اسلامی، جس نے تاریخی طور پر ہر پاکستانی فوجی آمر کا ساتھ دیا ہے، آج مصر میں فوجی اقتدار پر معترض ہے۔ کیا یہ کھلا تضاد نہیں؟


کیا پاکستانی فوج کے شب خون مصری فوج کے شب خون سے بہتر ہوتے ہیں؟


جماعت کی نگاہ میں اسلامی جماعتوں کا ہر مطالبہ ماننے والا بھٹو معتوب، اور اخوان کا نمائندہ مورسی معصوم کیوں ٹھہرتا ہے؟ کیا جمہوریت صرف تب ہی افضل ہے جب اس میں فرقہء مودودیہ یا فرقہء حسن البناء کو برتری حاصل ہو؟


جماعت کو مصر میں اخوان کے کارکنان کے قتل عام پر خوب تکلیف پہنچتی ہے لیکن اپنے وطن میں کئی سال سے اسلام کے نام پر جاری قتل عام پر اعتراض کا خیال بھی کیوں نہیں آتا؟


ہم مصری فوج کے شرمناک اقدام کی کسی طور حمایت نہیں کرتے اور اخوان کے نظریات سے شدید اختلاف کے باوجود اسکی حکومت کے یوں پلٹے جانے کے حق میں نہیں۔ ہمارے خیال میں بدترین جمہوریت بھی بہترین آمریت سے بہتر ہوتی ہے۔


مصر کی صورت حال میں ایک بہت اہم پہلو بہت سے نوجوانوں کو (جنہوں نے اپنی فیس بک ڈی پیز ’رابعہ‘ مسجد کے نام منسوب کر رکھی ہیں) معلوم نہیں اور جماعت اسلامی جیسی بد دیانت جماعت اس پہلو کا کبھی ذکر بھی نہیں کرتی کہ مصر کی فوج کو مصری سلفی جماعت کی بھرپور حمایت حاصل ہے! یعنی اسلام کے ٹھیکے دار وں نے امّہ کے تصور کو لات مارتے ہوئے اخوان کی، جو بزعم خود اسی نوعیت کی ٹھیکے داری کا دعوی رکھتی ہے، حکومت گرانے میں اہم کردار ادا کیا۔ مثل مشہور ہے، اس گھر کو آگ لگ گئی گھر کے چراغ سے۔


اسی دوران سلفیت کے باوا آدم، سعودی عرب نے حال ہی میں مصری فوجی حکومت کے لیے بارہ ارب ڈالر کی امداد کا اعلان کر دیا ہے، اور اس امداد میں کویت اور ابوظہبی کی حکومتیں بھی شامل ہیں۔ ان حالات میں مسلم امہ کی تشکیل کا خواب آنکھوں میں سجائے جماعتی ارکان کس منہ سے مصری فوج کی مخالفت کر رہے ہیں؟


فیس بک پر اپنی تصاویر اخوان کے نام کرنے والے نوجوانوں سے درخواست ہے کہ کچھ وقت نکال کر پاکستانی کی تاریخ کا مطالعہ کریں اور اپنے وطن میں بھی جمہوریت کی حفاظت کرنے کی قسم کھائیں۔ اور اگر برا نہ منائیں تو پاکستان میں آئے روز دہشت گردی کا نشانہ بننے والوں کی یاد میں بھی کبھی تصویر بدل لیا کریں، اور یہ یاد رکھیں کہ آپ کی غلط فہمی کے برعکس مصری فوج بھی مسلمان ہے، اس کی حمایت کرنے والے بھی مسلمان ہیں اور اس کے زیر عتاب اخوان والے بھی مسلمان ہیں۔


یاد رکھیں کہ کراچی میں شہداء رابعہ مسجد کی غائبانہ نماز جنازہ پڑھانے والوں نے اس سے پہلے اسامہ بن لادن کی بھی غائبانہ نماز یوں ہی پڑھائی ہوئی ہے۔

یاد رکھیں کہ اسی جماعت کے کارندوں نے مشرقی پاکستان میں البدر اور الشمس نامی گروہوں میں شامل ہو کر بنگال دانشوروں اور طالب علموں کے قتل عام میں حصہ لیا تھا۔


اسی اجتماع میں سابقہ اخوان کارکن ایمن الظواہری کو بھی سراہا گیا۔ یہ حضرت آج کل القاعدہ نامی ایک تنظیم کے سربراہ ہیں۔ اور القاعدہ نے جتنی خدمت ’انسانی حقوق‘ اور ’جمہوریت‘ کی کی ہے، اسکے لیے گوگل سرچ کرلیں۔
​

 

[M Ali Khan]

1- Professor Ghafoor, 2 - Mehmood Azam Farooqui & 3 - Senator Professor Khursheed from Jamat-e-Islami had joined the Martial Law Cabinet of General Ziaul Haq after 1977 and helped General Zia similarly like MQM helped General Musharraf from 1999 till Musharraf resignation in 2008

Mawlana Wahiduddin Khan has written extensively on Jamat-e-Islami and and their antics in his book "Asbaq-e-Tarikh" http://www.scribd.com/doc/100799947/asbaq-e-tarikh-by-maulana-wahiduddin-khan

so for Jamaatias to go out of their way to protest against Egyptian military dictators speaks well on how credible they were in dealing with Zia and Mush :)

HYPOCRITES AND OPPORTUNISTS!

 

[seekers]

ایک پرانا گانا تھا ، اس کے بول جماعت پر آج کل بڑے فٹ آتے ہیں جو اخوان اور اپنے آقا سعودیہ کے درمیان کنفیوزن کا شکار ہیں ، ایک کی حمایت تو کر سکتے ہیں لیکن دوسرے کی محالفت نہیں کر سکتے .

ایک طرف اس کا گھر ،ایک طرف میکدہ . کہاں میں جاؤں ہوتا نہیں فیصلہ

 

[zhohaq]

1- Professor Ghafoor, 2 - Mehmood Azam Farooqui & 3 - Senator Professor Khursheed from Jamat-e-Islami had joined the Martial Law Cabinet of General Ziaul Haq after 1977 and helped General Zia similarly like MQM helped General Musharraf from 1999 till Musharraf resignation in 2008

Mawlana Wahiduddin Khan has written extensively on Jamat-e-Islami and and their antics in his book "Asbaq-e-Tarikh" http://www.scribd.com/doc/100799947/asbaq-e-tarikh-by-maulana-wahiduddin-khan

so for Jamaatias to go out of their way to protest against Egyptian military dictators speaks well on how credible they were in dealing with Zia and Mush :)

HYPOCRITES AND OPPORTUNISTS!

30 yr ago man.
For context consider most of PPP leadership joined Zia regime, even many current PPPP leaders started of in Zia regime. Care to tell what Aitizaz,Babar Awan,Watoo,Khars,Amin Fahim,Gillani etc etc were upto during Zia era?

Zia used religion to sucker JI in. Jammatis like NAP, Baloch Nationalist had suffered through 8 years of Bhuttos FSF, assassinations, jails, false cases. They decided to get even, so what is really so surprising?
That was how politics was at the time.

Should be noted Bhutto and Prof Khurshid reached a deal before Martial law was declared. MR v Principled Air Marshal Asghar Khan was the spoiler. I dont blame him he was clearly disgusted with Bhutto and his politics.

Wasnt Bhutto himself not the only civilian in a Martial law cabinet. Wasnt he a thoroughly an establishment man?
How about his roles in 65 war, Break up of E Paksitan, Balochistan war etc etc. All should be forgiven and forgotten because the Army Chief he selected turned agasitn him?

How about this fact. What makes Bhuttos 71 mandate legitimate? He never accepted the mandate of Mujibur Rehman.
Wasnt Bhutto put into power in essentially a military coup by younger officer (which Bhutto instigated) against former patron Yahya? Wasn't he a civilian Martial law administrator.
Wouldn't Democratic norms dictate fresh elections after half of the country was gone?

Add to that JUIF,ANP,MQM PML F all joined hands with Zia.
So why direct opprobrium at Jamaatis alone? Ok its they do serve as a useful punching bag but Its intellectually Lazy.


On Musharaf I agree tey made huge blunders.
The explanation they give was that Mushi and co basically arm twisted them.
Saying he would pack them all of to Gitmo if they gave him any trouble.
The split in Jamat was far more serious then the split it went through Zia time.
They made the decision that they had to work or risk total annihilation at the hands of Mushi who fancied himself as the second coming of Ataturk.
Consider this reason ,to the purely selfish reason other parties give.
Why did PPP,ANP cut deal with Mushi by 2002 through americans? (Ref Wikileaks)
Even PTI collaborated with Mush at the beginning.

I think Jamaat has to learn lesson Muslim Brotherhood learnt after Nasserite purges.
Remain non violent and stay within political realm. Organize from the bottom up and forget about any shortcuts to power. Move from an urban middle class base to a rural base.


Most important lesson,Be suspicious of the Army or any Deep state endeavour like Kashmir Jehad, Afghan Jehad or even defending homeland like it try to do In E Pakistan. In every case Jamaat made real sacrifices but when State predictably changed policy they wreckage fell on them.


Interestingly very early on Jamaat had the right idea about these so called PROXY RUN Jihad mission.

From Vali Nasr book.

 

[atensari]

لبرلز بھی کم نہیں ہے ضیا سے بغض رکھتے ہیں اور مشرف کو سر آنکھوں پر بٹھایا تھا

لبرلز کے لیے جمہوریت تبھی قابل قبول ہے جب ننگ دھڑنگ ہو، ورنہ آمریت ہی بہتر ہے. ضیا کا درد ابھی تک اٹھ رہا ہے، سیسی کے مظالم پر ہوا بھی روک کر رکھے ہوئے ہیں. ضیا کے پردے میں مذہب کی مخالفت اور عالمی فرقہ سیکولر کے پیروکار ہونے کے ناطے سیسی سے ہمدری

عالمی فرقہ سیکولر کا پیروکار ہونے کے ناطے بھارت نواز علیحدگی پسند سیکولرز مکتی باہنی سے پاکستانی سیکولر کا پیاراور پاکستان سے محبت کے صلے میں سیکولر نشنلسٹ کے ظلم کا نشانہ بننے والوں سے پاکستانی سیکولرز کی نفرت فطری ہے
​

 

[barca]

ایک پرانا گانا تھا ، اس کے بول جماعت پر آج کل بڑے فٹ آتے ہیں جو اخوان اور اپنے آقا سعودیہ کے درمیان کنفیوزن کا شکار ہیں ، ایک کی حمایت تو کر سکتے ہیں لیکن دوسرے کی محالفت نہیں کر سکتے .

ایک طرف اس کا گھر ،ایک طرف میکدہ . کہاں میں جاؤں ہوتا نہیں فیصلہ

 

[seekers]

جماعت حیرانی و پریشانی

 

[cheetah]

Very good, keep on fighting, no break well done, keep on blaming rather to address the root problem. If the same spirit is kept then that day is not far away when the massacres also take place here in Pakistan, already here conditions are near to civil war. Come on spend your energies in the unity of Muslim Ummah. Past is past concentrate on present to secure the future. No Sunni, no Shia, no wahabi, no brelvi we are one.

 

[M Ali Khan]

30 yr ago man.
For context consider most of PPP leadership joined Zia regime, even many current PPPP leaders started of in Zia regime. Care to tell what Aitizaz,Babar Awan,Watoo,Khars,Amin Fahim,Gillani etc etc were upto during Zia era?

Zia used religion to sucker JI in. Jammatis like NAP, Baloch Nationalist had suffered through 8 years of Bhuttos FSF, assassinations, jails, false cases. They decided to get even, so what is really so surprising?
That was how politics was at the time.

Should be noted Bhutto and Prof Khurshid reached a deal before Martial law was declared. MR v Principled Air Marshal Asghar Khan was the spoiler. I dont blame him he was clearly disgusted with Bhutto and his politics.

Wasnt Bhutto himself not the only civilian in a Martial law cabinet. Wasnt he a thoroughly an establishment man?
How about his roles in 65 war, Break up of E Paksitan, Balochistan war etc etc. All should be forgiven and forgotten because the Army Chief he selected turned agasitn him?

How about this fact. What makes Bhuttos 71 mandate legitimate? He never accepted the mandate of Mujibur Rehman.
Wasnt Bhutto put into power in essentially a military coup by younger officer (which Bhutto instigated) against former patron Yahya? Wasn't he a civilian Martial law administrator.
Wouldn't Democratic norms dictate fresh elections after half of the country was gone?

Add to that JUIF,ANP,MQM PML F all joined hands with Zia.
So why direct opprobrium at Jamaatis alone? Ok its they do serve as a useful punching bag but Its intellectually Lazy.


On Musharaf I agree tey made huge blunders.
The explanation they give was that Mushi and co basically arm twisted them.
Saying he would pack them all of to Gitmo if they gave him any trouble.
The split in Jamat was far more serious then the split it went through Zia time.
They made the decision that they had to work or risk total annihilation at the hands of Mushi who fancied himself as the second coming of Ataturk.
Consider this reason ,to the purely selfish reason other parties give.
Why did PPP,ANP cut deal with Mushi by 2002 through americans? (Ref Wikileaks)
Even PTI collaborated with Mush at the beginning.

I think Jamaat has to learn lesson Muslim Brotherhood learnt after Nasserite purges.
Remain non violent and stay within political realm. Organize from the bottom up and forget about any shortcuts to power. Move from an urban middle class base to a rural base.


Most important lesson,Be suspicious of the Army or any Deep state endeavour like Kashmir Jehad, Afghan Jehad or even defending homeland like it try to do In E Pakistan. In every case Jamaat made real sacrifices but when State predictably changed policy they wreckage fell on them.


Interestingly very early on Jamaat had the right idea about these so called PROXY RUN Jihad mission.

From Vali Nasr book.

I fully agree with your entire premise. But given the Jamaat's unique history of artificially inflated political power at the whims of the establishment, (other parties not far behind either, but Jamaat is Jamaat) and their worries of stuff happening have a world away yet conveniently dodging bullets of the chaos at home, the piece I shared is very pertinent.

Plus its funny, JI receives much of its foreign support from the Gulf Arab royals, yet the Gulf Arabs (esp, Saudi) ban political parties at home. Hum Mustafavi Mustafavi Mustafavi hain......

 

[M Ali Khan]

Come on spend your energies in the unity of Muslim Ummah. Past is past concentrate on present to secure the future. No Sunni, no Shia, no wahabi, no brelvi we are one.

there's a small problem here. the problem is called History. and History tells a different thing that what we wish to perceive.

Divisions in Islam have been present since the time of the Khulafa e Rashida in which even Sahabas became opponents of one another!!! and no matter how much our Islamiyat books want to avoid highlighting them....they still have to include them!

 

[Mayam Nawaz]

I fully agree with your entire premise. But given the Jamaat's unique history of artificially inflated political power at the whims of the establishment, (other parties not far behind either, but Jamaat is Jamaat) and their worries of stuff happening have a world away yet conveniently dodging bullets of the chaos at home, the piece I shared is very pertinent.

Plus its funny, JI receives much of its foreign support from the Gulf Arab royals, yet the Gulf Arabs (esp, Saudi) ban political parties at home. Hum Mustafavi Mustafavi Mustafavi hain......

I am not sure you sit on the computer after eating lots of sh*t or you do that afterwards...
Jamat was helped by establishment and Arabs, what??? ones who were really helped by establishment were in power and are still in power like Ganjas and Bbuttos... you telling me after all these years Arabs and Establishment joined Evil Forces could not make one JI's PM? you have something seriously wrong with your fat brain! Please post some documentary proof here since you are claiming Jamat is receiving financial support by 'Gulf Arabs' and Establishment.

 

[zhohaq]

I fully agree with your entire premise. But given the Jamaat's unique history of artificially inflated political power at the whims of the establishment, (other parties not far behind either, but Jamaat is Jamaat) and their worries of stuff happening have a world away yet conveniently dodging bullets of the chaos at home, the piece I shared is very pertinent.

Plus its funny, JI receives much of its foreign support from the Gulf Arab royals, yet the Gulf Arabs (esp, Saudi) ban political parties at home. Hum Mustafavi Mustafavi Mustafavi hain......

For the first part I think if you talk to enough Jamatis you get the feeling they share a sense of being alone in a hostile socio-cultural milieu. This isnt as severe as Syed Qutb Jahiliyah. But Maududi and Hasan al Banna writing have this theme at various point.
For Islamic revivalist, their country have been economically,spiritually,socially hijacked by forces unleashed from the west since colonial times for subjugation. And they as a vanguard group have to fight the long lonely fight. Add to this the tight organizational structure. Takes around 8 yr to break into JI or MB ranks. Only the committed stay.
If you start thinking in this way your only true comrades are fellow travellers spread out all over the planet.
Despite protests to the contrary (and a good degree of reaction formation) ,Islamist don't really believe nationalism is a valid concept.


My point is these dudes have far more in common to one other then to us regular slobs who may be from the same country/culture. MB which is mother ship is close to being crushed violently. Same goes for JI in Bangladesh. MB in Syria,Libya also are facing real threats. In Tunisia Enahada is in real trouble from Opposition and UGTT,
I am surprised JI in Pakistan isnt throwing a bigger hissy fit cause for them its like a century old movement is at the risk of being erased from pages of history.

---

Your second point is a popular misunderstanding. Let me assure you KSA govt hates JI & vice versa.
The break is usually traced to JI opposing the first Gulf war in 1991. But their is something far more elementary.
KSA royalty see's Political Islam as an existential threat. They will use their leverage at any opportunity to undermine JI.
(For a really strange example after recognizing Afghan Taliban they requested Taliban govt to shut down JI Jehadi camps close to Jalalabad)
Hence also its finacing the coup against MB in Egypt.
Read this for Background:http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/08/19/egypts_coup_and_the_saudi_opposition

 

[shami11]

Very good, keep on fighting, no break well done, keep on blaming rather to address the root problem. If the same spirit is kept then that day is not far away when the massacres also take place here in Pakistan, already here conditions are near to civil war. Come on spend your energies in the unity of Muslim Ummah. Past is past concentrate on present to secure the future. No Sunni, no Shia, no wahabi, no brelvi we are one.

Well said ...!!!! the only thing I see here people are arguing and sometime it does not make any sense the point they are trying to make...

 

[shami11]

Does it matter what's happened in 1971 or Zia era...!!! water under the bridge.... Certainly we can not go back in time start sorting the mess created in past.
Move on and let's make the future better...

 

[cheetah]

there's a small problem here. the problem is called History. and History tells a different thing that what we wish to perceive.

Divisions in Islam have been present since the time of the Khulafa e Rashida in which even Sahabas became opponents of one another!!! and no matter how much our Islamiyat books want to avoid highlighting them....they still have to include them!

In the Quran ALLAH (SWT) "Allah ki rasi mazbooti sey thaam or apus mein tafraqay neh parho" Messenger of Allah (PBUH) has whole Muslim Ummah Aik jism ki tarah hai. Ok. Now coming to your point regarding Sahaba, first of all we are equivalent to the shoes of these towering personalities and should not dare to question about them reason being what is my and your virtual status, secondly even if there was any rift between them this might be result of some misunderstanding, but their intentions would not be questioned and again I and you are in no position to comment upon it, ALLAH knows better. Thirdly authenticity of the history, how it is finely manipulated in different times is an established fact. Lastly I want to add shahadat of Hazarat Imam Hussain, RA is the most tragic incident of our history
and yazeed is responsible for it, Curse upon him. By the grace of ALLAH the Holy QURAN is unquestionably authentic and we should follow it brother, brother if you agree with me and hopefully you will be then spread this message of Muslim unity. Thanking you in anticipation and please let me know.

 

[M Ali Khan]

In the Quran ALLAH (SWT) "Allah ki rasi mazbooti sey thaam or apus mein tafraqay neh parho" Messenger of Allah (PBUH) has whole Muslim Ummah Aik jism ki tarah hai. Ok. Now coming to your point regarding Sahaba, first of all we are equivalent to the shoes of these towering personalities and should not dare to question about them reason being what is my and your virtual status, secondly even if there was any rift between them this might be result of some misunderstanding, but their intentions would not be questioned and again I and you are in no position to comment upon it, ALLAH knows better. Thirdly authenticity of the history, how it is finely manipulated in different times is an established fact. Lastly I want to add shahadat of Hazarat Imam Hussain, RA is the most tragic incident of our history
and yazeed is responsible for it, Curse upon him. By the grace of ALLAH the Holy QURAN is unquestionably authentic and we should follow it brother, brother if you agree with me and hopefully you will be then spread this message of Muslim unity. Thanking you in anticipation and please let me know.

My friend, we should understand History for what it is and not as some article of faith.

Reading about the internal rifts that began very early among the Sahaba and reached critical mass in the final years of Hazrat Usman's caliphate and then Hazrat Ali's rule are FACTS!

Fellow Muslims assassinated Hazrat Usman, the battles of Jaml and Siffin had Muslims fighting Muslims and featuring not just Sahaba but even Hazrat Aisha are FACTS! Hazrat Ali was also assassinated by a fellow Muslim.

Even Hazrat Umar was assassinated by a Persian convert to Islam! Hazrat Imam Hussain and his family were killed and imprisoned by fellow Muslims. Oh and lets not forget the bloody war between the Ummayads and the Abbasids to claim the Caliphate later on!

Oh and here's an interesting fact. The Yazeedi forces that were ordered to pursue, surround, and attack Imam Hussain's camp were led by a man called Amr ibn Saad....and guess who was Amr's father: a prominent Sahabi named Hazrat Saad bin Abi Waqqas !!!

the Quran is a Book of Faith. Remember, all these events happened AFTER the Quran's final revelation and AFTER passing away of Holy Prophet. and I prefer to have a non-sectarian point of view as well.

I am not questioning the faith and belief of the Sahaba at all! They were fully committed to their faith, however the matter of politics and tribal feuds are also a reality we people are very reluctant to understand because it goes against the "feel-good fantasy" factor of the propaganda labelled as Islamiat being force fed to us from an early age.

once again, we should take History for what it is and not as some article of faith. Because this clouds our judgement and fuels the desire for conspiracy theories in our society.

I am not against Muslim unity at all! I am all for a pluralistic and tolerant society that appreciates people for who they are and treats them as equal human beings without discrimination.

But I realise the difficulty in this task as, once again, history proves these divisions are as old as history of Islam after Holy Prophet and we cannot simply wish them away.

I hope I helped you understand my point of view. I would highly recommend you read the historic works of Muslim scholars like Ibn Khaldun, Ibn Ishaq, Ibn Hisham, and even the Hadith literature to understand these aspects.

 

[M Ali Khan]

For the first part I think if you talk to enough Jamatis you get the feeling they share a sense of being alone in a hostile socio-cultural milieu. This isnt as severe as Syed Qutb Jahiliyah. But Maududi and Hasan al Banna writing have this theme at various point.
For Islamic revivalist, their country have been economically,spiritually,socially hijacked by forces unleashed from the west since colonial times for subjugation. And they as a vanguard group have to fight the long lonely fight. Add to this the tight organizational structure. Takes around 8 yr to break into JI or MB ranks. Only the committed stay.
If you start thinking in this way your only true comrades are fellow travellers spread out all over the planet.
Despite protests to the contrary (and a good degree of reaction formation) ,Islamist don't really believe nationalism is a valid concept.


My point is these dudes have far more in common to one other then to us regular slobs who may be from the same country/culture. MB which is mother ship is close to being crushed violently. Same goes for JI in Bangladesh. MB in Syria,Libya also are facing real threats. In Tunisia Enahada is in real trouble from Opposition and UGTT,
I am surprised JI in Pakistan isnt throwing a bigger hissy fit cause for them its like a century old movement is at the risk of being erased from pages of history.

---

Your second point is a popular misunderstanding. Let me assure you KSA govt hates JI & vice versa.
The break is usually traced to JI opposing the first Gulf war in 1991. But their is something far more elementary.
KSA royalty see's Political Islam as an existential threat. They will use their leverage at any opportunity to undermine JI.
(For a really strange example after recognizing Afghan Taliban they requested Taliban govt to shut down JI Jehadi camps close to Jalalabad)
Hence also its finacing the coup against MB in Egypt.
Read this for Background:http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/08/19/egypts_coup_and_the_saudi_opposition

Here's the thing about the likes of Maududi and al-Banna and their respective brands of Islamism and revivalism. they cater to the nostalgic fantasies people have rather than crude harsh realities of the societies they are from. there is a strong difference of opinion, if not hostility, between the various Muslim religious groups and these Islamists/revivalists.

these ideologies are, in long term, unsustainable. Not just because of the West-appointed elite but also because these groups have failed to give out a clear alternative nor have the necessary widespread popular support that can facilitate a change in system. Remember, when Hosni's regime was falling, MB initially remained mostly in the background but were very active to grab a slice when the opportunity came.

This meant many Egyptians automatically eyed MB with suspicion and deemed the actions of Morsi as consolidating his own power - not just the liberal secular ones but also the Salafi groups did not like MB suddenly becoming thekeydaars of Egypt! Most Egyptians, even before this so-called Arab Spring took place, only sympathised with MB etc because of the stuff they faced under the military rulers. But they certainly had a bubbling mistrust, if not downright hostility, towards Ikhwan and other groups of such kind.

But at the end of the day, their solidarity with each other - while admirable at some levels - is basically a desperate sign that they cannot sustain themselves. they face opposition yes but that is because they actually have a LOT of internal weaknesses that are so easily exploitable to undermine their cause.

these groups arent as mass appealing as they would think and that is why they have faced the chittars of reality the hard way.

oh and Saudi royals regard Islamism as an existential threat since the days of Juhayman al-Oteibi. so how did they deal with the problem? by exporting to other Muslim socities of course! diverting the domestic rifts away to other countries and also using them in their rivalry with Iran. Saudi royals have pumped in BILLIONS to fund madrassahs in Pakistan etc that preach the same ideology they regard as a threat back at home. But eventually the Saudi royals wont last long and Iran's mullahs are clutching at straws.

when Saudi and Iran's current elites fall, then the fun will REALLY begin.

back to Pakistan: JI has had a history of instigating violence since the 1950s in Pakistan. They are infamous for being thugs and street vagabonds. IJT has a strong history of college badmashi long before PSF emerged. and please, lets not compare the individual defections from PPP PML etc to support Zia etc, with the COLLECTIVE SUPPORT JI gave them as a political entity.

I certainly do not give a damn about JI facing the heat. Maududi's dinosaur is on life support for years. Its time to pull the plug on them.

oh and remember when I said Saudis havent had a problem supporting an existential threat they face for their own benefit outside their land? http://moneyjihad.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/saudi-backed-tycoon-finances-jamaat-e-islami/

 

[cheetah]

My friend, we should understand History for what it is and not as some article of faith.

Reading about the internal rifts that began very early among the Sahaba and reached critical mass in the final years of Hazrat Usman's caliphate and then Hazrat Ali's rule are FACTS!

Fellow Muslims assassinated Hazrat Usman, the battles of Jaml and Siffin had Muslims fighting Muslims and featuring not just Sahaba but even Hazrat Aisha are FACTS! Hazrat Ali was also assassinated by a fellow Muslim.

Even Hazrat Umar was assassinated by a Persian convert to Islam! Hazrat Imam Hussain and his family were killed and imprisoned by fellow Muslims. Oh and lets not forget the bloody war between the Ummayads and the Abbasids to claim the Caliphate later on!

Oh and here's an interesting fact. The Yazeedi forces that were ordered to pursue, surround, and attack Imam Hussain's camp were led by a man called Amr ibn Saad....and guess who was Amr's father: a prominent Sahabi named Hazrat Saad bin Abi Waqqas !!!

the Quran is a Book of Faith. Remember, all these events happened AFTER the Quran's final revelation and AFTER passing away of Holy Prophet. and I prefer to have a non-sectarian point of view as well.

I am not questioning the faith and belief of the Sahaba at all! They were fully committed to their faith, however the matter of politics and tribal feuds are also a reality we people are very reluctant to understand because it goes against the "feel-good fantasy" factor of the propaganda labelled as Islamiat being force fed to us from an early age.

once again, we should take History for what it is and not as some article of faith. Because this clouds our judgement and fuels the desire for conspiracy theories in our society.

I am not against Muslim unity at all! I am all for a pluralistic and tolerant society that appreciates people for who they are and treats them as equal human beings without discrimination.

But I realise the difficulty in this task as, once again, history proves these divisions are as old as history of Islam after Holy Prophet and we cannot simply wish them away.

I hope I helped you understand my point of view. I would highly recommend you read the historic works of Muslim scholars like Ibn Khaldun, Ibn Ishaq, Ibn Hisham, and even the Hadith literature to understand these aspects.

You are right but my point is what is the source of guidance for us and you will agree with me it is only the Quran and Sunnah(PBUH), now coming to the history, many questions can be raised, historian can't be neutral personal liking and disliking always predominates unintentionally, present circumstances also affect when historian is like the history. Above all history is learnt to have a lesson rather to make basis for the perpetual infighting, when the Holy Quran and the messenger of ALLAH(PBUH) forbade us in having sects are we not violating the Quran. May Almighty ALLAH guide me and us to right path, Ameen. One thing more history tells us it is the mutual fighting of Ummah which has damaged us the most and what we learnt from it. Students keep on cramming the reasons for the downfall of Ummah, Muslim Empire in subcontinent but what is the fun in cramming if we are not going to take moral from it and more importantly implement it.