اسلام پاکستان میں فیل ہوچکا ہے

[There is only 1]

I also wanted to know the same, mate.

I think you dint my question : )

MSc in Mechanical Engg!
Fav subjects: Physics, Math, Chem, CS,

 

[Qarar]

دلچسپ بات یہ ہے کہ مسلمان سائنس کی کسی تحقیق یا تھیوری کے سامنے آنے کے بعد ہی کیوں یہ شور مچاتے نظر آتے ہیں کہ دیکھو یہ بات تو پہلے ہی قرآن کی فلاں سورت اور آیات نے بیان کردی تھی ...ایسا کیوں نہیں ہوتا کہ کوئی "اسلامی سائنسدان" سائنس سے پہلے ہی وہ معلومات تفصیل سے سامنے لے آئے ...اس سے سائنس کا بھی بھلا ہو جائے گا سائنس کا کام صرف قرآن کی تصدیق اور تائید کرنا ہی رہ جائے گا ...مسلمان بھی خوش اور سائنس بھی خوش ...اللہ اللہ خیر صلیٰ
لیکن یہ بھی یاد رکھئے کہ سائنس اپنے آپ کو حتمی نہیں کہتی ...کبھی کبھار کوئی نظریہ غلط بھی ثابت ہوجاتا ہے ...لہذا قرآن کی سورتوں کے ثبوت پیش کرنے سے پہلے یہ بھی ذھن میں رکھئے کہ کہیں بعد میں لینے کے دینے نہ پڑ جائیں


مومنین اور مومنات کو یہ سمجھنے کی ضرورت ہے کہ اسلام اور باقی ابراہیمی مذاہب صرف اخلاقیات کا درس دینے آئے تھے ...قرآن اور بائبل وغیرہ کا کام اس سے زیادہ نہیں ....سائنس کا کام سائنس جانے...یہ الگ بات ہے کہ اخلاقیات میں بھی یہ کتابیں زمانے سے پیچھے رہ گئی ہیں


بیسویں سورت طہ آیت نمبر ترپن یہ کہتی ہے


[It is He] who has made for you the earth as a bed [spread out] and inserted therein for you roadways and sent down from the sky, rain and produced thereby categories of various plants


یہ ترجمہ قرآن ڈاٹ کام کا ہے جوکہ مسلمانوں کی ویب سائٹ ہے


سوال یہ ہے کہ زمین کو بنانے والا اللہ یہ کیوں کہ رہا ہے کہ زمین کو بیڈ یا چٹائی کی طرح بچھا دیا ...کیا وہ یہ نہیں کہ سکتا تھا کہ میں نے اسے گول بنایا ہے


یہ بھی یاد رکھئے کہ چھٹی صدی میں اور کافی بعد تک یہ نظریہ مانا جاتا تھا کہ زمین فلیٹ ہے ...کیا ہی اچھا ہوتا کہ قرآن اس زمانے میں موجود نظریے کو غلط کہ دینا کہ نہیں زمین گول ہے ..مگر افسوس

 

[aazad.mubassir]

As I said I don't believe in man made Islam (Number 2 Islam) that you are referring to in shape of Hadith or Tafseer, that is also mentioned in the brackets of each verse translations that you are referring to. When Quran expalins itself why we need to refer to all those man written stuff in the first place. None of the Caliph ever promoted those ahadith or tafseer collection because they knew only Al-Quran is enough for Ummah guidance. Whatever people claiming they were told in a private gathering can never supersede the Quranic verse. That is a main cause of Taffariqah/sectarianism and polarization in the Ummah now a days because each sect has their own collection of authentic Hadith and Tafseer. People are being brain washed to become suicide bombers to attack different sects/religion.

I'm not a comparative religion expert but whatever holy scriptures you just mentioned are not in original shape. Only Al-Quran text is available in its original shape and will be available until the last day of Universe. If that's true then translation and understanding of Al-Quran will also keep changing dynamically according to current situation. We cannot punish thieves today by chopping their hands and legs now those punishment should be taken as cutting off their resources/wealth collected through ill means and counsel them to bring back into the society. The angles are not aliens but laws of nature that govern according to God's will.

You can surely put in brackets whatsoever you want, mate, but that's not what Quran says.

I referred to Ibn Abbas and no one could claim to understand Arabic better than him. He was born in the era when Quran was written. Translations might have errors but I have pasted his Tafseer here, which is self explanatory.


So here's the catch. Until the end of times whenever Science would explore something from Antarctica to Himalaya, you would claim it's in Quran.

Question is if it's in Quran why wouldn't you be able to find it out before the Scientific discovery?

Answer is simple. Because there's no Science in Quran. You rely heavily on "Similarities in words" and try to soothe your guilt- consciencwthat follows Quran by sayin that "O' it was already mentioned in Quran". This is worst kind of "gullibility" in the softest possible words.


In addition, have you not read that exactly same words were found in Old Testament that I wrote down in the above post? That way, based on "Similar Words", all religions claim that they are books of Science.


Take example of Hindus. From Yoga to Vegetarianism, they prove a lot of Science from their books.


And those who wrote Quran they were folks who believed that Ajwa dates were a treatment for Poison. A white lie. They also believed that a fly's second wing carries off "Treatment" for the diseases on the first wing. These are Sahih Ahadith
They were the guys who drank "Camel Urine" to cure. This is also Sahih Hadith.

That was their understanding of Science.

Come off it, yar!

 

[Username]

As I said I don't believe in man made Islam (Number 2 Islam) that you are referring to in shape of Hadith or Tafseer, that is also mentioned in the brackets of each verse translations that you are referring to. When Quran expalins itself why we need to refer to all those man written stuff in the first place. None of the Caliph ever promoted those ahadith or tafseer collection because they knew only Al-Quran is enough for Ummah guidance. Whatever people claiming they were told in a private gathering can never supersede the Quranic verse. That is a main cause of Taffariqah/sectarianism and polarization in the Ummah now a days because each sect has their own collection of authentic Hadith and Tafseer. People are being brain washed to become suicide bombers to attack different sects/religion.

I'm not a comparative religion expert but whatever holy scriptures you just mentioned are not in original shape. Only Al-Quran text is available in its original shape and will be available until the last day of Universe. If that's true then translation and understanding of Al-Quran will also keep changing dynamically according to current situation. We cannot punish thieves today by chopping their hands and legs now those punishment should be taken as cutting off their resources/wealth collected through ill means and counsel them to bring back into the society. The angles are not aliens but laws of nature that govern according to God's will.

What you're suggesting here, my friend, has been suggested by many Muslim Philosophers, on different occasions and times.

I totally agree with you on some points like forms of Quranic punishment need to be forgotten and I liberalised but as far as my own opinion is concerned Quran is not a Book of God.


Do you know that Quran is a "Reactive" book?
That means that most of its ayah are Incident or event-specific. Something happened and a few verses came up. This is therefore NOT a book planned by God but a Book that aimed at influencing Meccans of that time and at solving their problems or giving them necessary guidelines on certain issues.


2. Quran is not a Book of God because it targets Meccans of that time. Its chief audience are Meccans. What I have to do with the story Abu Jahal? What I have to do with Abu Lahab? What I have to do with so many other petty matters of Arabs of those times?


3. Quran is not a Book of God because it takes same pattern as other Ancient books. It discusses same stories. It took forms of punishment from Romans. It took story of Adam and Eve from Christianity. It took this notion that man and women are made of Water and Dirt from Greek Mythology. So what's new in Quran? What Quran states had already existed and practice in the World.


4. Why Quran is not a book of God is because its laws are impractical, irrational, unfair, and discriminatory. From inheritance laws to Hudod laws, every law lacks quality and fairness. All laws represent Arab culture rather than a God.

4. Quran is not the book of God because it's been used for personal favours to Prophet SAW. From his wish to marry his adoped son Zayd's wife Zainab to his wish to vindicate hazrat Aisha from the charge of Adultery. Many people said Aisha had committed adultery. Specially sister of Zainab Bin Jahsh and Poet of Prophet Hassan. Ali suggested that Prophet SAW should divorce Aisha. Prophet SAW kept thinking and then he makes his mind and on 22nd day of this incident, He SAW says that God has sent a verse that vindicates Aisha from the charge of adultery.
Now think about it. Why did God have to wait for 22 days to announce that Aisha was innocent?
Clearly, Prophet couldn't make a decision about Aisha and finally when He SAW did, He SAW claimed God has sent a verse. God solves Prophets personal marital issues in his "Divine Book"?
There's a list of verses that helped Prophet SAW for achieving personal goals.

5. Quran is not a Book of God because it lacks ethics and morals. It endorsed all unethical and immoral actions of Early Muslims. A classic case is of " Nakhla Raid" when Muslims looted a Caravan and killed an unarmed trader "AMR BIM Hadarami" in the holy month of Rajab in which Arabs dint fight. Prophet SAW cousin had killed the man and looted everything and went to Prophet SAW and gave him His 5th or 6th share. That was extremely unethical and immoral of Muslims and suddenly a verse of Quran comes up and says that it was okay to kill the man.

Another classic case of low morals of Quran is of Agreement of Hudaibiya. According to that treaty Muslims had to hand over anyone coming from Mecca to Medina. When Umm Kulthum came from Mecca to Medina and her brothers came to demand her, Prophet SAW said that in the agreement we talked only about MEN. That was a break of word and trust. A violation of a treaty which Muslims had signed. And suddenly a verse comes up and says it's okay to break the treaty.

7. Quran is not the book of God as it mentions things that do not exist but which were part of Arabs culture and faith. For example jins. Jin do not exist. But because Arabs believed in existence of Jin so Quran thought it a good opportunity to win their hearts by mentioning Jin in Quran. It would also influence their resistance as Arabs were scared of Jins.

I can keep on writing about why Quran is NOT the Book of God.

(I'm on my cell. Ignore errors please )

 

[نادان]

اقوام متحدہ نے کب کہا کہ وہ کوئی "خدائی کتاب " کی حامل ہے


ایسے دعوے تو مذہب کرتا ہے


دوسرا' عمل کس بات پر کرنا ہے؟


برقہ پہنا دیا جائے آپ کو؟
آپکا جیون ساتھ تین اور بیویاں رکھ لے؟
ساتھ ہی ساتھ "اسلامی ریاست شام و عراق " سے خریدی ہوئی لاتعداد لونڈیاں بھی گھر ڈال لے؟
کوئی زنا کرے تو اسے زمین میں دبا کر پتھر مار مار کر اس جہاں سے رخصت کر دیں؟
وحشیانہ سزائیں دینا شروع کر دیں انسانوں کو؟ ہاتھ اور پاؤں کاٹ دیا کریں- پاؤں کاٹنا تو سنت بھی ہے- صحیح بخاری
میں لکھا ہے
مسلمان ملکوں میں رہنے والے غیر مسلموں سے "جزیہ " لینا شروع کر دیں ؟ پھر دیکھیں غیر مسلم ممالک میں مسلمانوں
کے سر پر کیسے تنا تن جوتیاں پڑتی ہیں
ٹی وی' ڈرامے' فلمیں' فائن آرٹس' شاعری' ادب' موسیقی سب پہ پابندی لگوانی ہے کیا ؟


کس بات کو نافد کرنا چاہتی ہیں آپ اسلام کی؟

یہ تو اس بات کا جواب تھا کہ اقوام متحدہ کا چارٹر نافظ کر دیا جائے ....ارادے نیک نہ ہوں تو کچھ بھی نافظ کر دو ....

اسلام تاکید کرتا ہے ..مشورہ دیتا ہے اور باقی آپ پر چھوڑ دیتا ہے کہ آپ عمل کریں یا نہ کریں ....
یہ ہے اپنے نبی سے فرمایا کہ آپ کا کام صرف پیغام دینا ہے ...زور زبردستی ، جبر تو ہے ہی نہیں ....میں اپنے اعمال کی جواب دہ ہوں ..اور وہ بھی روز قیامت ...
مرد کو چار شادی کی اجازت ہے لیکن ساتھ ہی مشورہ ہے کہ ایک پر ہی اکتفا کرو تو اچھا ہے کیونکہ آپ انصاف نہ کر پاؤ گے .....کہ انصاف صرف مالی طور پر ہی نہیں جذباتی طور پر بھی کرنا ہو گا ...
اور جہاں اجازت نہیں ہے کیا وہاں مرد گھر سے باہر منہ ماری نہیں کرتا ...
لونڈیوں کا جواب مجھے اسی فورم پر مل چکا ہے ....گئے زمانے کا رواج تھا ..اسلام ہر زمانے کے لئے ہے ..جس زمانے میں یہ رواج نہیں اس کو دوبارہ زندہ کرنا حماقت کے سوا کچھ نہیں ..اسلام نے ان سے شادی پر زور دیا تھا ....
اسلام میں زنا کی سزا رجم یا سنگساری نہیں ہے ...
سزا جرم کی نوعیت دیکھ کر دی جاتی ہے ..ایسا نہیں کہ میں نے ایک روٹی چرائی اور میرے ہاتھ کاٹنے کا حکم ہو گیا .....عادی مجرم کی سزا ہے اور وہ بھی جرم کی شدت کے حساب سے ..وہ بھی یک دم پورا ہاتھ کاٹنا نہیں .....جس نے میری عمر بھر کی کمائی لوٹ لی ہو ....اس کے لئے کیا میں سخت سے سخت سزا کی تمنا نہ کروں گی ؟
یہ جزیہ والی بات پتا کر کے بتاؤں گی کہ قرآن کیا کہتا ہے اس بارے میں ...
بیہودگی اور عریانی پر ضرور پابندی ہونی چاہئے ..چلیں اسے اسلام سے نہ جوڑیں ..کلچر سے ہی جوڑ لیں ..ہمارے ہاں ابھی بھی بہت سے گھرانے فحش ڈرامے یا فلمیں اکھٹے بیٹھ کر نہیں دیکھ سکتے ..باقی حدود کے اندر میرے حساب سے سب جائز
میں ملا کے اسلام کو نہیں مانتی ....آپ نے ملا کے اسلام کا نقشہ کھینچا ہے

 

[There is only 1]

دلچسپ بات یہ ہے کہ مسلمان سائنس کی کسی تحقیق یا تھیوری کے سامنے آنے کے بعد ہی کیوں یہ شور مچاتے نظر آتے ہیں کہ دیکھو یہ بات تو پہلے ہی قرآن کی فلاں سورت اور آیات نے بیان کردی تھی ...ایسا کیوں نہیں ہوتا کہ کوئی "اسلامی سائنسدان" سائنس سے پہلے ہی وہ معلومات تفصیل سے سامنے لے آئے ...اس سے سائنس کا بھی بھلا ہو جائے گا سائنس کا کام صرف قرآن کی تصدیق اور تائید کرنا ہی رہ جائے گا ...مسلمان بھی خوش اور سائنس بھی خوش ...اللہ اللہ خیر صلیٰ
لیکن یہ بھی یاد رکھئے کہ سائنس اپنے آپ کو حتمی نہیں کہتی ...کبھی کبھار کوئی نظریہ غلط بھی ثابت ہوجاتا ہے ...لہذا قرآن کی سورتوں کے ثبوت پیش کرنے سے پہلے یہ بھی ذھن میں رکھئے کہ کہیں بعد میں لینے کے دینے نہ پڑ جائیں


مومنین اور مومنات کو یہ سمجھنے کی ضرورت ہے کہ اسلام اور باقی ابراہیمی مذاہب صرف اخلاقیات کا درس دینے آئے تھے ...قرآن اور بائبل وغیرہ کا کام اس سے زیادہ نہیں ....سائنس کا کام سائنس جانے...یہ الگ بات ہے کہ اخلاقیات میں بھی یہ کتابیں زمانے سے پیچھے رہ گئی ہیں


بیسویں سورت طہ آیت نمبر ترپن یہ کہتی ہے


[It is He] who has made for you the earth as a bed [spread out] and inserted therein for you roadways and sent down from the sky, rain and produced thereby categories of various plants


یہ ترجمہ قرآن ڈاٹ کام کا ہے جوکہ مسلمانوں کی ویب سائٹ ہے


سوال یہ ہے کہ زمین کو بنانے والا اللہ یہ کیوں کہ رہا ہے کہ زمین کو بیڈ یا چٹائی کی طرح بچھا دیا ...کیا وہ یہ نہیں کہ سکتا تھا کہ میں نے اسے گول بنایا ہے


یہ بھی یاد رکھئے کہ چھٹی صدی میں اور کافی بعد تک یہ نظریہ مانا جاتا تھا کہ زمین فلیٹ ہے ...کیا ہی اچھا ہوتا کہ قرآن اس زمانے میں موجود نظریے کو غلط کہ دینا کہ نہیں زمین گول ہے ..مگر افسوس

اس آیات میں آپ " تمہارے لئے " کے الفاظ پڑھنا بھول گیے

دوسرا ایسی کئی باتیں ہیں جو ابھی تک سائنس نے نہیں دریافت کی اور ہمیں بتائی گئی ہیں ، آپ اپنا پسندیدہ سبجیکٹ بتایں اور میں آپ کو باتیں بتاتا ہوں

 

[free_thinker]

Please do not rely on the ridiclous translation by ignornt mullahs!

Here, go read all the different translation available in this link:
http://quran.com/67/5

Or the tasfirs of Al-Jalalayn

And verily We have adorned the lowest heaven, the one closest to the earth, with lamps, with stars, and made them missiles against the devils, should they [attempt to] listen by stealth, in which case a meteor of fire detaches itself from the star, just like a brand is taken from a fire, and either kills that jinn or deprives him of his senses: it is not that the star itself is displaced from its position; and We have prepared for them the chastisement of the Blaze, the ignited Fire.

OR

Tanwr al-Miqbs min Tafsr Ibn Abbs
(And verily We have beatified the world's heaven) the first heaven (with lamps) with stars, (and We have made them) i.e. the stars (missiles for the devils) such that some of them become bewitched, some are killed while others are burnt, (and for them) for the devils (We have prepared) in the Hereafter (the doom of flame

Or

Qatadah said, "These stars were only created for three purposes: Allah created them as adornment for the heaven (sky), as missiles for the devils and as signs for navigation. Therefore, whoever seeks to interpret any other meanings for them other than these, then verily he has spoken with his own opinion, he has lost his portion and burdened himself with that which he has no knowledge of.'' Ibn Jarir and Ibn Abi Hatim both recorded this statement



Looks to me you are the ignorant one here and not these well known translations/tafsirs.

​

 

[There is only 1]

Here, go read all the different translation available in this link:
http://quran.com/67/5

Or the tasfirs of Al-Jalalayn

And verily We have adorned the lowest heaven, the one closest to the earth, with lamps, with stars, and made them missiles against the devils, should they [attempt to] listen by stealth, in which case a meteor of fire detaches itself from the star, just like a brand is taken from a fire, and either kills that jinn or deprives him of his senses: it is not that the star itself is displaced from its position; and We have prepared for them the chastisement of the Blaze, the ignited Fire.

OR

Tanwr al-Miqbs min Tafsr Ibn ‘Abbs
(And verily We have beatified the world's heaven) the first heaven (with lamps) with stars, (and We have made them) i.e. the stars (missiles for the devils) such that some of them become bewitched, some are killed while others are burnt, (and for them) for the devils (We have prepared) in the Hereafter (the doom of flame

Or

Qatadah said, "These stars were only created for three purposes: Allah created them as adornment for the heaven (sky), as missiles for the devils and as signs for navigation. Therefore, whoever seeks to interpret any other meanings for them other than these, then verily he has spoken with his own opinion, he has lost his portion and burdened himself with that which he has no knowledge of.'' Ibn Jarir and Ibn Abi Hatim both recorded this statement



Looks to me you are the ignorant one here and not these well known translations/tafsirs.

​

Thanks for your comments! But I failed to understand whether you are defending Islam or atacking Islam!

 

[کک باکسر]

یہ تصور کرکے کہ آپ واقعی بھولے بھالے دنیا سے ناواقف،پاکستانیوں کے ہمدرد ہیں،یہ عرض کرنا چاہتا ہوں کہ
آج کی دنیا میں دو ملک، مذہب کے نام پر وجود میں آئے ہیںِ پاکستان ،،اور اسرائیل
کیا خیال ہے آپکا،اسرائیل اور اسکی قوم ترقی پر ہے ،یا نہیں؟

یہ تو آپ نے اس کے منہ پر کرارا تھپڑ مارا ہے

 

[Sohail Shuja]

پاکستان میں اسلام نافذ ہی کب ہوا ہے ، جو آپ نے نتیجہ نکال لیا ہے ، سب کاغذی کاروائیاں ہیں ، صرف آئین میں لکھا ہے ، حکمران تو اس سے ایسے بھاگتے ہیں جیسے یہ بے چارے مسلمان ہی نہیں ، اب تو لبرل بننے کا جنون ہے ، یہ شوق بھی پورا کر لیں

وہ زمانے میں معزز تھے مسلماں ہو کر
اور تم خوار ہوئے تارک قرآں ہو کر

اپنی ملت پر قیاس اقوام مغرب سے نہ کر
خاص ہے ترکیب میں قوم رسول ہاشمی

مذہب انسان کی ترقی کی راہ میں رکاوٹ نہیں ہے ، اسلام مذہب نہیں ہے ، مذہب اسلام کا حصہ ہے ، اسلام کو مذہب سمجھ کر اس پر تقید کرنے والے نا سمجھ ہیں ، پہلے وہ اپنا تصور دین درست کریں ، پھر اسلام پر مذہب کے حوالے سے بات کریں، روشن خیالی کا چورن بیچنے کے شوق میں ہم اکثر مذہب پر تنقید کر رہے ہوتے ہیں ، الله قران میں ہر مسلمان کو غور و فکر کی دعوت دیتا ہے ، جس نے عمل کیا وہ آج ترقی پر ہے ، جس نے چھوڑا وہ ذلت کا شکار ہے

​

AIk Islami Nazaryati Council banayee to thi jo har dafa apnay ijlaas main fatiha parh ker halwa kha ker har dakaar pe AL_HAMDULILLAH kehti ghar chali jaati hay... un sey bhi kabhi pochain na k asal Islam ka nifaz kyun kar aaj tak na ho saka... hum abhi tak kyun sood k nizam main phansay uhay hain? kyun aaj tak hamaray paas koi aur mutabadil (alternate) nahi hay? kyun Government sharab per tax leti hay aur issay halaal samajhti hay? iss sab k liye aaj tak kya kiya gaya mazhabi jamaton ki taraf sey? hum ney to sirf wajib ul qatal k fatway hi lagaye hain .... Muhtaram, iss tarha sey koi faida nhi ho ga... Pakistan ko iss haal main pohnchanay main jahan haath in pseudo liberals ka hay to inn mazhabi logon ka kirdaar bhi kuch kam nhi hay... in ki wajha sey hi aik khalaa (vacuum) paida hua jis main yeh pseudo liberals ghuss gaye hain aur jinko abb Islam sey hi nafrat ho chali hay... iss sab k zimmadar bhi yeh sab mazhabi jamatain hain, jinhon ney mazhab ko aksar apnay zaati mufaad k liye istimaal kiya

 

[Sohail Shuja]

میری ایڈمن سے گزارش ہے کہ ان جیسے مکاروں کے تھریڈ جواسلام کے خلاف ہیں اور مذہب کو دہست گردی سے جوڑتے ہیں ..ایسے تھریڈ ہٹا دیے جائیں اور ہمارے جذبات کا احترام کیا جاے .
یہی لوگ اصل کے دہشت فرد ہیں جو پہلے را کا ایجنٹ بن کر دھماکے کرواتے ہیں اور پھر اسلام پر برس پڑتے ہیں .
اسلام امن کا دیں ہے .
ان جیسے لوگوں کو فورم پر بین کر دیا جاے .ورنہ یہ سائٹ مذھبی منافرت کا پلیٹ فارم بن جاے گی .
شکریہ

Aur in sey poocha jaye k UN Charter ki kaunsi shiq Islam k nazaryaat k khilaf jaati hay ? Itni lambi bakwas likhay hain laikin aqal sey paidal hi rehtay hain... inhon ney kaha k Islam fail ho chuka hay, laikin iss ki koi daleel nhi hay k Islam fail hua hay ya aaj kal k Musalman fail huay hain.... pathetic goons they are

 

[Sohail Shuja]

چلو، ایک ہی جملے میں اسلام کے نام پر ہونے والی دہشت گردی کو غیروں کی سازش قرار دے کر بات ہی لپیٹ دی


بھائی، تھریڈ اسٹارٹر نے کوئی گالی نہیں دی، کوئی فتویٰ نہیں دیا، صرف اپنی راۓ دی ہے. آپ دلیل سے اسکا جواب دے دو


یہ تھریڈ بین کرنے کی ریکویسٹ کوئی سمجھ میں نہیں آئی

Ji inki daleel ka jawab yeh hay k jis UN k charter ki yeh baat kertay hain woh Iraq main weapons of mass destruction dhoondtay huay aur Israel k khilaf 72 sey zayed aur Kashmir k haq main resolution pass kernay k baad bara "pass" ho gaya hay jis k liye humko un k system per chalna chahiye aur Islam ko fail declare ker daina chahiye

 

[Sohail Shuja]

کوئی تو شرم ہوتی ہے حیا ہوتی ہے، اسلام امن کا دین ہے؟ جو خود کش کتا معصوم لوگوں کے درمیان جا کر پھٹ گیا وہ کیا بدھ مذہب کا جنونی تھا؟

Ji ji,,,,,, jo bomb bandh ker phat gaya woh to junooni tha, jis ney remote control drone sey uss becharay k saarey ghar walon ko maar diya aur collateral damage ka nam dey diya, woh muhazzib aur tamam roshan khayalon ka daada abbu....yaar waqai.. koi sharam hoti hay, koi haya hoti hay... ksi ney kabhi socha hay k aakhir woh kaunsa cheezain hain jinki wajha sey aik insaan khudkush banta hay ? kabhi kuch din guzar ker aayein un logon k saath jinkay sar k ouper sey roz drone guzartay hain, jinko dehshat gardi k shak main tafteesh k liye utha liya jata hay aur un per kaisay kaisay mazalim dhaye jatay hain.... aur teesri baat yeh, k unko khudkush k training denay walay aur funding kernay walay hi dunya main sab sey ziada Islam k khilaf naaray maartay hain....

 

[Piyasa]

اسلام کہتا ہے کہ علم حاصل کرو ، کائنات پر غور و خوص کرو ، عالم با عمل کو عبادت گزار پر برتری حاصل ہے ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ یعنی سائنس و تحقیق کو اسلام میں بہت اہمیت حاصل ہے تو اب جو اس اصول کو اپنے اپناۓ گا وہی ترقی کرے گا

آپ کا ديا ہوا سبق ان جيسوں کے سمجھ سے پرے ہۓ کيونکہ آپ کی بات لوجيکل ہۓ جو يہ ماننے کے ليۓ تيار کبھی نا ہوںگے۔ يہ اسی انتہا پسندی کی دوسری شکل ہۓجو تحريک طالبان اور ديش جيسی تنظيموں ميں کار فرما ہۓ۔ يہی وہ لوگ ہيں جو دھشت گردی کے دھاگے مذھب سے جوڑتے ہيں جبکہ کوئ مذھب دھشت گردی نہيں سکھاتا۔

 

[Admiral]

کوئی تو شرم ہوتی ہے حیا ہوتی ہے، اسلام امن کا دین ہے؟ جو خود کش کتا معصوم لوگوں کے درمیان جا کر پھٹ گیا وہ کیا بدھ مذہب کا جنونی تھا؟

خوارجی، اسلام کو قتل و غارت کا دین سمجھتے ہیں اور تم جیسے بھی انہی خوارج کے ہم۔خیال ہیں۔۔
تم بھی انہی کے پریسپیکٹیو سے دیکھتے ہو ہر چیز کو
خوارج اور ان کے ہم۔خیال دونوں ہی اس قتل و غارت کو اسلام کہتے ہیں ْ
اور ان دونوں (خوارج اور ان کے ہم۔خیال) فساد پسندوں کا علاج صرف یہ ہے کہ ان کا مکمل خاتمہ کیا جائے، تا کہ عام پاکستانی امن سے رہ سکے

 

[aazad.mubassir]

All the events you quoted here are from same man made N2I translations/tafseer. I'm posting a link of translation, that probably help you to understand, how Quran can explain itself. You don't need all those fairy tales or Shan-e-Nozool type translations.

http://www.drshabbir.com/library/qxpvi_w_arabic_text.pdf

What you're suggesting here, my friend, has been suggested by many Muslim Philosophers, on different occasions and times.

I totally agree with you on some points like forms of Quranic punishment need to be forgotten and I liberalised but as far as my own opinion is concerned Quran is not a Book of God.


Do you know that Quran is a "Reactive" book?
That means that most of its ayah are Incident or event-specific. Something happened and a few verses came up. This is therefore NOT a book planned by God but a Book that aimed at influencing Meccans of that time and at solving their problems or giving them necessary guidelines on certain issues.


2. Quran is not a Book of God because it targets Meccans of that time. Its chief audience are Meccans. What I have to do with the story Abu Jahal? What I have to do with Abu Lahab? What I have to do with so many other petty matters of Arabs of those times?


3. Quran is not a Book of God because it takes same pattern as other Ancient books. It discusses same stories. It took forms of punishment from Romans. It took story of Adam and Eve from Christianity. It took this notion that man and women are made of Water and Dirt from Greek Mythology. So what's new in Quran? What Quran states had already existed and practice in the World.


4. Why Quran is not a book of God is because its laws are impractical, irrational, unfair, and discriminatory. From inheritance laws to Hudod laws, every law lacks quality and fairness. All laws represent Arab culture rather than a God.

4. Quran is not the book of God because it's been used for personal favours to Prophet SAW. From his wish to marry his adoped son Zayd's wife Zainab to his wish to vindicate hazrat Aisha from the charge of Adultery. Many people said Aisha had committed adultery. Specially sister of Zainab Bin Jahsh and Poet of Prophet Hassan. Ali suggested that Prophet SAW should divorce Aisha. Prophet SAW kept thinking and then he makes his mind and on 22nd day of this incident, He SAW says that God has sent a verse that vindicates Aisha from the charge of adultery.
Now think about it. Why did God have to wait for 22 days to announce that Aisha was innocent?
Clearly, Prophet couldn't make a decision about Aisha and finally when He SAW did, He SAW claimed God has sent a verse. God solves Prophets personal marital issues in his "Divine Book"?
There's a list of verses that helped Prophet SAW for achieving personal goals.

5. Quran is not a Book of God because it lacks ethics and morals. It endorsed all unethical and immoral actions of Early Muslims. A classic case is of " Nakhla Raid" when Muslims looted a Caravan and killed an unarmed trader "AMR BIM Hadarami" in the holy month of Rajab in which Arabs dint fight. Prophet SAW cousin had killed the man and looted everything and went to Prophet SAW and gave him His 5th or 6th share. That was extremely unethical and immoral of Muslims and suddenly a verse of Quran comes up and says that it was okay to kill the man.

Another classic case of low morals of Quran is of Agreement of Hudaibiya. According to that treaty Muslims had to hand over anyone coming from Mecca to Medina. When Umm Kulthum came from Mecca to Medina and her brothers came to demand her, Prophet SAW said that in the agreement we talked only about MEN. That was a break of word and trust. A violation of a treaty which Muslims had signed. And suddenly a verse comes up and says it's okay to break the treaty.

7. Quran is not the book of God as it mentions things that do not exist but which were part of Arabs culture and faith. For example jins. Jin do not exist. But because Arabs believed in existence of Jin so Quran thought it a good opportunity to win their hearts by mentioning Jin in Quran. It would also influence their resistance as Arabs were scared of Jins.

I can keep on writing about why Quran is NOT the Book of God.

(I'm on my cell. Ignore errors please )

 

[Admiral]

آپ ان لوگوں کو کو کس بناء پر لبرل کہہ رہے ہیں، جناب؟ یہ نہ لبرل لگتےہیں اور نہ پاکستانی
ممکنہ طور پر یہ لوگ کسی بھارتی ایجنسی کے کارندے ہیں، جو پاکستان میں اپنئے تئیں مادر پدر آزاد فضا بنادینے کے بعد اپنے کام کے کارندوں کی تلاش میں ہیں
اسلام اور مسلمان سے نا واقف بے وقوف لوگ

یہی لوگ اصل کے دہشت فرد ہیں جو پہلے را کا ایجنٹ بن کر دھماکے کرواتے ہیں اور پھر اسلام پر برس پڑتے ہیں .
اسلام امن کا دیں ہے .
ان جیسے لوگوں کو فورم پر بین کر دیا جاے .ورنہ یہ سائٹ مذھبی منافرت کا پلیٹ فارم بن جاے گی .
شکریہ

اسلام نہیں ، اسلام کا نا خلف ٹھیکیدار فیل ہو چکا ہے
اور اسلام میں عدل کی حکومت کا تصور ہے ، اگر عدل ہے تو حکومت کامیاب اگر نہیں تو ناکام ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ اگر آپ کو سیکولر ازم عدل کا نظام لگتا ہے تو مرحبا مرحبا

aap ka column mein nay nahi parha .. lekan aap k subject per mujhay aiteraz hay.. islam religion fail honay k liye nahi aaya .. na hee ye ta qayamat kabhi fail ho sakta hay.. haan ham musalman apni zindagion mein isay lanay mein fail zaroor ho saktay hein..

Allah ka deen qayamat tak qaim rahnay k liye hay...

او بھائی کیا ہو گیا ہے؟
اس کے انداز سے نہیں آپ کو پتہ چل رہا کہ اس کو صرف وہی چیز اسلام لگتی ہے جو خوارج اور تکفیری کہتے اور کرتے ہیں، اس کو صرف دہشتگردی ہی اسلام لگتی ہے۔۔
ایسا کیوں ہے؟ اس کی وجہ یہ ہے کہ یہ خود انہی حرامیوں کا ہمنوا ہے، انہی کے دین کو اسلام مانتاہے
انہی جہنم کے کتوں میں سے ہے یہ بھی

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Brother, what's the point of such purposeless one liner insults, especially whose which are not even relevant?


Let's forget others, and focus on Muslims of South Asia:

- Hasn't religion hindered us in the last 200 years? Mullah fought Sir Syed who said that we must learn modern language. Today we all do with pride.

Please lets get our facts right first.... Pakistan had been the world's fastest growing economy from 1947 to 1990's ... what was it which made Pakistan to prosper at that rate? still Qatar and many other Islamic states are among the world's richest and peaceful nations... what is the reason? Sir Syed did say to learn English, but why did he publish his book Al Khutbat al Ahmadiya (1870), in reply to Muir''s "Life of Mahomet" If he was so westernized then tell me why did he chose the uniform of Aligarh University to be Sherwani and still it is like that.... ??? any logical answers ?

- Then, isn't it because of our religious doctrine that half of the population (women) are not productive part of the economy? (they are to a bit while running homes, but forcing all women to do that is massively under utilizing them).

This is utter B.S which the west has inculcated in our minds. Being a housewife does not mean that anyone is an idle part of the economy... if they are rendering their services in a support role of raising good children then they are making also in a support role of developing an economy. Moreover, is it only the economy and material well-being which should be the indicator of development? would you like to elaborate that why the family life in the west is so dysfunctional? why so many people commit suicide due to anomaly?

- Then, haven't we suffered enough in the name of sectarianism and jihad? And violence in the name of religion? Aren't Muslims of South Asia divided in three parts while Hindus are united just because we came up with the stunt of a opening a small shop next door to the biggest competitor enemy?

I wish that people who say this have even an iota of knowledge about Islam and have a little sense as well. Where does Islam promotes sectarianism ? OK, if we hadn't been involved in the Afghan Jihad, then you think that Pakistan would be safe nowadays? please wake up and smell your coffee.... Russia did not invade for being at Afghanistan alone and send flowers and chocolates to Pakistan as gifts.

 

[دوسرا_سوال]

Please lets get our facts right first.... Pakistan had been the world's fastest growing economy from 1947 to 1990's ...

[hilar] - what a lovely pair of contradicting statement. And you expect me to reply to you with a straight face.

Qatar and many other Islamic states are among the world's richest and peaceful nations... what is the reason?

Oil. The end. Nothing else. Take the oil away, and you got nothing. It's always the oil, man. Don't you know?

..If he was so westernized then tell me why did he chose the uniform of Aligarh University to be Sherwani and still it is like that.... ??? any logical answers ?

Nobody's saying western clothing is an obligation. Come on man, what are you getting at?!?

...Being a housewife does not mean that anyone is an idle part of the economy...

...is...economy...material well-being...indicator of development?...

...family life... in west...dysfunctional? ...suicide...

agree with women contributing as housewives, but disagree with the obligation on all women to do so, as recommended by religion

no, hunger and illness is the correct indicator... :doh:

 

[Sohail Shuja]

[hilar] - what a lovely pair of contradicting statement. And you expect me to reply to you with a straight face.

I know you cannot respond to this with neither a straight face or a twisted one.... get me the facts and figures my mate... I have seen many jokers lying on the floor on this forum trying to cover up their goofiness ... so not amused at all.

Oil. The end. Nothing else. Take the oil away, and you got nothing. It's always the oil, man. Don't you know?

So do you mean to say that Oil (economic riches) washes down every negative bit of Islam from a country??? then this implies that if we get certain resources here, the problems we are facing will die down..... think twice... you are contradicting your own statement here.... but I do tend to agree to the fact that poverty is the mother of many evils and if we control poverty, we can see a slum in this sort of religious fanaticism which has defaced Islam all over the world.

Nobody's saying western clothing is an obligation. Come on man, what are you getting at?!?

Why you ducked my first question in this regard??? tell me about the book I mentioned by Sir Syed Ahmed Khan? was he really anti religion or did he want a reform in our thoughts ?

agree with women contributing as housewives, but disagree with the obligation on all women to do so, as recommended by religion

Now where does religion implies that all women should stay at home? Yes, it is liked that a woman should remain inside a house rather than being a model whose beauty is sold like a commodity in adverts.... that's a moral degradation and even in the west people are against it.

no, hunger and illness is the correct indicator... :doh:

My dear, even hunger and ailments can be introduced by natural calamities and political devastation... If U.S finds that Assad is a dictator and thinks he should be removed... then how many people who do not share the same idea or does not have anything to do with it are forced out of their jobs, made to flee their homes and leave everything behind and are made beggars.... Now tell me who is responsible for this chaos and their plight ? think again my dear... this has nothing to do with it... its a game which is played in the name of religion and secularism.... in secularism it may be justified that you can invade a nation like Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and Syria and just say an apology for the victims of this war and the ones who died in the collateral damage.... in essence, this secularism has no moral or ethical grounds.... for the sake of money and riches, they act no different than these religious retards... even worse