Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
bayta, jab tumhara deemagh mature ho jaay ga tu baat karna.
Abhi doosray thread may bhi tum "look who is talking" say aagay sooch nahi sakay.
"Zakat & Social Development"
- Thread starter Wake up Pak
- Start date
Abhi doosray thread may bhi tum "look who is talking" say aagay sooch nahi sakay.
afsoos tumhari zahni ghulami pr . yea video main tum hi ho kia,
khud video bana kr yahan post kr de hahahahahahahah
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
عجیب بات ہے ڈھائی ہزار برس قبل اس قماش کا ایک بھی شخص بھی موجود نہیں تھا جو نماز، زکوۃ، صیام، حج کا درست مفہوم جانتا ہوتا۔ پھر بارہ سو سال بعد کچھ نمونے پیدا ہونے لگے جن کا دعوی وہ دین جانتے ہیں اور کوئی نہیں جانتا۔
Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
How do you follow the Prophet, by following the thing which the prophet himself followed and was revealed to him. The Quran. And while he was among the people, he was their leader and people had to follow him. Now he is gone, we can only follow what he has left us and this is only the Quran and nothing else.
And these verses are about judgements, so when he was with his people, he would be the judge and when he is gone, we obey those in authority i.e courts and judges. Not mullahs and muftis.
In the Quran there is mention of only one hadith and one sunnah and those are of Allah.
And also stop this old trick of quoting out of context or partial verses of the Quran that suit you. The Quran itself strictly forbids this and gives us the example of the Jews who used to cover passages of the scriptures that went against their wishes.
The complete verse is
O you who have believed, obey Allāh and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allāh and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allāh and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result.
This verse says if there is a disagreement among you refer it to Allah and the messenger. Since the messenger is no longer with us we can only refer it to Allah. And how do you refer it to Allah? With the Quran of course.
And the Quran itself says it is a detailed book, it is clear and easy to understand, if there was a need Allah would have sent us many books but he didn't.
So following the the very Ayat you quoted, you case for "hadith" goes out the window.
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Kiya logic hay bhai tumhari? Kaash kay tumhari ankhoon say rawayaat key ainak utar jaay phir he shayad koi logic key baat kar sako.
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
May nay kaha hay na kay phelay deemaghi toour per itnay baray ho jao kay koi rational discussion kar sako.
jy sa tum aik namoona hoo, itni waisay hi tumhara yea video main jo bole raha hy i am sure you both are the same,
gole mole batain , translation ko manipulate krna
simple c logic hy Quran pr ky say believe krty ho Quran jis form main humaharay pass hy vo bhe to kisi ny leekha hy na kitab ki shakal de 30 paray banai, etc etc
but i know you are gonna come with a lame excuse and and illogic argument but i ll try to guide just may be kisi hedayat mil jae kisi ko bhee
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Aray babwa, kehna kiya chah rahay ho?
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
تمھاری منطق یہی ہے، علم دین ہزار برس قبل گم گیا تھا. اب کچھ منطقی اس کا احیاء کر رہے ہیں. دین صرف منطق سے سیکھانا مطلوب ہوتا تو اللہ تعالی ہر کتاب کے ساتھ رسول نتھی نا کرتے
tum apnay nannay demag pr zoor na do, tum ko samagh aanay wali nahi jis ko wazu namaz zakat rozay ka nahi pata vo kia kia samghay ga
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Mayri nahi tamam loog jo apni thori si bhi aqal istimaall kartay hain woh iss baat per qail hain kay Deen siraf aur siraf Quran may hay baqi sub rawayat per mabni mazhab hay jis ka Deen islam say koi layna dayna nahi.
Rasool ka kam Quran loogon tak pohanchana tha iss ziada aur kuch nahi.
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Bayta chalu naamz ka batao kis nay tumhain seekhai aur Quran may iskey detail kahan hay?
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Bayta yeah parh lo shayad thora sa deemagh khul jay...
When we tell people that 'we believe the Quran alone is all we need
They will respond by claiming we have denied the sunna of the messenger because God says "obey God and the messenger" in the Quran
And they claim that 'obey God' refers to the Quran, and 'obey the messenger' with the books of Hadith and Sunna
So they believe 'obey God and the messenger' is to follow two different sources.
So let's study the phrase 'obey God and the messenger' from a Quranic point of view
The first Observation: The Quran always says 'obey God and the messenger'.
Never does it say 'obey the prophet' or 'obey Muhammad'.
It is always 'obey God and the messenger'
So it is important to understand what the term 'messenger' (Rasool) means.
And why God did not say 'obey the prophet (nabi)'?
Muhammad had two statuses: The status of NUBUWA (prophethood) And the status of RASOOL (messenger)
The status of NUBUWA - the word NUBUWA means 'high or elevated place'.
This means that God has chosen Muhammad, out of all the humans, to communicate with him certain news, prophecies, etc.
So the status of NUBUWA (prophet) means that a human being is communicating with God.
The status of RASOOL - God tells us the status of RASOOL in the Quran:
(5:67) O messenger, deliver what was sent down to you from your Lord. And if you do not, then you have not delivered His message...
We see that God clearly tells us the duty of the messenger is to deliver the message of God
God also says: (24:54) ...there is nothing upon the messenger except the clear delivery...
This teaches us that the sole duty of the messenger is to deliver the message to the people
So if God did not give Muhammad the 'message', then he would not be called 'messenger' (Rasool).
So God calls him 'Rasool because Muhammad is carrying the 'message'.
What is this message that Muhammad carried? The messenger himself answers this in the Quran:
(6:19) ...this Quran has inspired me to deliver it to you and whoever it reaches...
All these verses teach us that the duty of a messenger is to deliver the message.
Muhammad - the messenger - is required to send us the Quran
So when God says "obey the messenger" we are essentially obeying the 'message' itself
Another observation: God says in the Quran (4:80) "Whoever obeys the messenger, has obeyed God..."
This means when we obey the messenger - the message - the Quran, we have in reality obeyed God
All these verses teach us that 'obey God and the messenger' is essentially obeying ONE source - the Quran
Let's assume that the Quran tells us "obey God" without mentioning obeying the messenger. How would we do that?
This would mean that God Himself would have to come to earth and give us the Quran directly
This of course is illogical
This is why we are to 'obey God and the messenger' - because God gave Muhammad 'the message' which makes him a messenger
And the messenger is required to deliver it to humanity.
So this is what 'obey God and the messenger' means from the Quran.
"Obey God and the messenger" is essentially ONE source - the Quran.
We obey the messenger because he has the 'message
maray pyaray baytay lagta hy tum ko mara sawal samagh main nahi aaya, jis logic sy tum hadith ko nahi maantay vo he logic Quran pr bhee lag sakte hy , at the end of the day Quran bhe kisi ny leekh kr he agay distribute kia hy
sawal ghoor sy parho , tumharay matric main kitny number aai thay, pahlay yea batao tum real life main krty kia ho beside tableegh lol
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Chunnu munnu yeah bhi parh lo shayad tumhara bundh deemagh khul jaay...
The Word Hadith in The Quran
The following is a list of the occurrence of the word hadith/hadeeth and its use in The Quran/Koran.
Possible meanings of the word hadith = narrations, sayings, words, speech, opinions, statements, utterance, discourse, account, and tale.
There are 26 occurrences of the word hadith in The Quran and they are shown below. Please remember to read the context (surrounding verses) as this is crucial to understanding the actual verse:
On that day those who rejected and disobeyed the messenger will desire that the earth will swallow them, but they cannot hide any hadith from GOD. [4:42]
Wherever you may be, death will find you, even if you are in fortified towers. If any good befalls them, they say: "This is from God," and if any bad befalls them, they say: "This is from you!" Say: "All is from God;" what is wrong with these people, they barely understand a hadith! [4:78]
GOD, there is no god but He. He will gather you for the day of resurrection in which there is no doubt. Who is more truthful in hadith than GOD?. [4:87]
And it has been sent down to you in the book, that if you hear GOD's verses being rejected in and ridiculed in, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different hadith; if not, then you are like them. GOD will gather the hypocrites and the disbelievers in hell all together [4:140]
And if you see those who meddle in Our verses, then turn away from them until they meddle in a different hadith; and if the devil lets you forget, then do not sit after remembering with the wicked people [6:68]
Did they not look at the dominion of heavens and earth, and all that GOD has created?. Perhaps their time is coming near; so in which hadith after this will they have faith? [7:185]
And it is such that your Lord Has chosen you, and He teaches you the interpretation of hadith, and He completes His blessings upon you and upon the family of Jacob, as He completed it for your fathers before that, Abraham and Isaac. your Lord is Knowing, Wise. [12:6]
And the one from Egypt who bought him said to his wife: 'make his stay generous, perhaps he will benefit us or we make take him as a son'. And it was thus that We established Joseph in the land and to teach him the interpretation of hadith. And GOD Has full power over His affairs, but most of mankind do not know. [12:21]
'My Lord, you have given me sovereignty and taught me the interpretations of hadith. Initiator of the heavens and earth, you are my protector in this world and the hereafter. Make me die a Submitter, and join me with the good doers'. [12:101]
In their stories is a lesson for the people of intelligence. It was not a hadith that was invented, but an authentication of what is already present and a detailing of all things, and a guidance and mercy to a people who have faith. [12:111]
Perhaps you will torment yourself in grief over them, because they will not believe in this hadith at all. [18:6]
And did the hadith of Moses come to you? [20:9]
Then We sent Our messengers in succession. Every time there came to a nation their messenger, they denied him. So We made them follow one another, and We made them a hadith. So away with a people who do not believe. [23:44]
And from the people, there are those who accept baseless hadith to mislead from the path of GOD without knowledge, and takes it as entertainment. Those will have a humiliating retribution. [31:6]
O you who believe, do not enter the prophet's homes except if you are invited to a meal, without you forcing such an invitation. But if you are invited, you may enter. And when you finish eating, you shall leave, without staying to wait for hadith. This used to bother the prophet, and he was shy to tell you. But God does not shy away from the truth. And if you ask his wives for something, ask them from behind a barrier. This is purer for your hearts and their hearts. And it is not for you to harm God's messenger, nor that you should marry his wives after him. This is indeed a gross offense against God. [33:53]
[68:44]
So in what hadith after this will they believe? [77:50]
Did the hadith of Moses come to you? [79:15]
Has the hadith come to you of the soldiers? [85:17]
Has the hadith come to you of that which will overwhelm? [88:1]
Conclusions
1) God uses the word hadith to describe The Quran itself, as well as its general meaning.
2) The Quran never uses the word hadith in the way the word is commonly used today (i.e. referring solely to Prophet Muhammad's hadith, or hadith books).
This is understandable as the 6 hadith books were compiled between 180-280 years after Prophet Muhammad's death. Long after The Quran.
3) In 12:111 God states this hadith (The Quran) is a detailing of all things.
4) There are people who accept baseless hadith, according to 31:6.
5) God states that The Quran is the best and most truthful hadith [4:87, 39:23].
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
A commonly stated argument by those who wish to raise traditional hearsay/ahadith to divine-status level is that its compilation was the same as The Quran.
Is that really true? Let's look at the simple and obvious facts...
The Quran = God's Word
Ahadith = man's word
The Quran = 100% fact/truth/Perfect
Ahadith = mix of truth and falsehood (hence weak and strong hadith)
The Quran = was recorded under the DIRECT supervision of the prophet Muhammad
Ahadith = not recorded under the DIRECT supervision of prophet Muhammad
The Quran = written AND memorized word for word as soon as it was transmitted
Ahadith = no one ever claimed to record and memorize ahadith word for word as soon as it was transmitted
The Quran = is protected explicitly by God Himself as stated in The Quran
Ahadith = no such explicit protection stated
The Quran = no Muslim doubts its credibility
Ahadith = Each sect has its own versions, weak & strong ones, etc
The Quran = an in-built verification mechanism, e.g. challenges others to find an inconsistency, brings a chapter like it, etc.
Ahadith = no such in-built mechanism, full of inconsistencies, etc.
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
وہ تمام عقلمند لوگ گذشتہ ڈھائی سو برس کے دوران برصغیر ہی میں نمودار ہوئے۔ اس سے قبل ایک ہزار برس تک امت ایک بھی عقلمند پیدا نہیں کر سکی۔
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Bilkul sahih kaha aur ab yeah tehreek puri dunya may zoor pakar rahi hay kay Islam siraf Quran may hay, baqi sub mazhabi puja paat hay....
Yeah ayah parh lo agar Allah nay Deen complete/perfected kar diya hay tu iss bahar jaanay key kiya zaroorat hay?
Partial verse 5:3
"This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
ڈھائی سو برس قبل برصغیر کے عجمی خود سے قرآن مجید سمجھنے لگ گئے جبکہ عربی جن کی مادری زبان ہے انہیں سمجھ نہیں ائی۔
وَيُعَلِّمُهُمُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَيُزَكِّيهِمْ
www.siasat.pk
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Agar Arabi jin key madri zaban hay unko samajh nahi aai tu Dr Israr ko kaysay samajh aa gai?ڈھائی سو برس قبل برصغیر کے عجمی خود سے قرآن مجید سمجھنے لگ گئے جبکہ عربی جن کی مادری زبان ہے انہیں سمجھ نہیں ائی۔
وَيُعَلِّمُهُمُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَيُزَكِّيهِمْ
