zaid Hamid vs Fasadi

[gazoomartian]

@wsher
Main Issue with zaid hamid is his association with yousaf kazzab and how he is defending it.I am not against his mission of Takmeel-e-Pakistan.I love my country.

Meray bhai Most of your questions are answered here. The content has been taken for the following link.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/topic.php?uid=244922893101&topic=14035



1. Why all Ulemas relied on the News of khabren and gave fatwa against Yousuf Kazzab.

Answer: Ulema give fatwa when an issue is placed in front of them. E.g. I can ask an aalim to give a fatawa on whether if asim lends me 10,000 rupees and asks for 1100 back next month, is this riba or not. If an alim gives fatawa that this is riba, this does not mean Asim actually lent me that money. Maybe he did not. Ulema job is not to investigate, but to give fatwa that "IF" yusuf said this and this as reported, does he qualify to become a kazzab or not. That is the fatwa that they gave.

Any alim, today, would give the same fatwa i.e. if a person says "Ana muhammad", and by that statement, means (naozubillah) Muhammad Rasul Allah (sm), then he is kazzab. The jurisdiction of the fatwa is only theoretical. This is what they said.

The application of this fatwa on kazzab yusuf was decided by the court, after validating from multiple witnesses that yusuf, in fact, actually said that to multiple people. A person very close to me actually validated this fact from the witnesses. The same witnesses disclosed to khabrain. The same witnesses said so in court. Some of those witnesses are still alive. To say that ulema relied on false news of khabrain and other newspapers is all rubbish. No doubt zia shahid was a black mailer, but he black mailed only those against whom he had collected evidences. The devil laughs when one theif robs another. Zia shahid's corruption does not absolve yusuf of what he used to claim and say. The witness against yusuf of this fact are many. Zaid himself has never denied, and never can deny, in specific terms, that yusuf never said "ana muhammad". Privately phone kar ke pooch lain zaid bhai say ke yusuf yeh kehta tha ya naheen. Fatwa was only about this statement. That fatwa still holds. That fatwa can be validated by any contemporary scholar also i.e. if a person says "I am Muhammad" is he a kazzab or not. All ulema say yes to this, that he would be.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2. What is your opinion about the those Ulema who are supporting Zaid Hamid?

Answer: "Supporting" zaid hamid is a very vague statement. There is not a single aalim who supports yusuf kazzab. There is not a single aalim who says that saying "ana muhammad" does not make you a kazzab. If some alim takes a photo session with Zaid, that does not imply he is absolving yusuf, or condoning Zaid's hesitance towards calling yusuf a kazzab. Please give me phone number or show you tube biyan of any one aalim who says yusuf was NOT a kazzab. That means in this issue, no aalim supports him.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

3. Give here a single statement or act i repeat any stem,ent or act by Zaid Hamid where he said "Follow Yousuf Ali".

His act of trying to "absolve" yusuf of kazzabiat to such an extent that he compromised takmeel mission for it, casts doubt over his intentions. Other than that, so far there is no direct statement from him to follow yusuf. But that does not mean anything. If you want to follow him because he hasn't said anything "for" yusuf, then its fine. We stopped following him because he hasn't said anything "against" yusuf either. That is our choice.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

4. What are the requirement to be a Muslim?

To believe in the Kalimah, which includes considering hazrat Muhammad (sm) Bin Abdullah as Rasul Allah. If anyone considers Muhemmed Yusuf Ali as Rasul Allah, or a physical manifestation of him, then that casts doubt on his being muslim also. Muhemmed Yusuf Ali used to call himsef Rasul Allah, and Zaid has never said he is kazzab, which means Zaid believes in this. Irrespective of whether this makes him a muslim or not a muslim, it makes him doubtful.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

5. Proof from Quran and Sunnah that Zaid Hamid is not Muslim...

"Ma kaana Muhammad un abaa ahadin min rijaal ul wa lakin rasul Allah e wa khatam an nabiyeen...".

This verse specifically establishes Muhammad bin Abdullah as the last Prophet(sm) and anyone who believes Muhemmed Yusuf Ali was ALSO a manifestation of Muhammad Rasul Allah, is in opposition to this verse of the Quran, and hence not a muslim. I'm not saying zaid believes it this way which makes him a non-muslim. I am saying if he does not specifically state that he does not, than people have legitimate reason to "doubt" him, which they do, and because of which they have left him, and many are leaving. Its not for us to decide if zaid's a muslim or not. Its for us to make reasonable, responsible judgement on who is being honest and truthful and who is not.


There is a lot more to this issue, which brasstacks is not disclosing. If nothing else, at least they are not being honest, and do not trust the good judgement of their own fan base, which is practically an insult to all of you which you do not realize. If everything about yusuf is clean and he was a great sufi scholar, why not do a program about him and disclose all facts about him, along with their explanations?

I am very scared to Allah while speaking about such issues all I pray to Allah that my intention is not wrong and I do not interfere in anyone's belief. I dont know you might be a better muslims who knows except Allah.

All I am trying to say is Zaid Hamid has announced his aqeeda very wide and clear being a muslim I have no right to question him any further. I should rather look on the work he wants to do which is great prevailing Khilafat and existence of Islamic state.

You know what I must say something to you the issues of religion are very sensitive and they entirly between Allah and a human being we should not interfere between them. We should look on how good we are.

And lets suppose even if Zaid Hamid is wrong what damage he can bring to the country I am sure it wont be more than this current setup made up so called Ulemas of Jamat e Islami.

Therefore I believe I would support him. He never said anything against my beliefs so yes I am going to support him with open minded. And its time to wake up.

[clap] very bold step

 

[gazoomartian]

I request to all moderators to leave this thread separate and please................do not merge this to any previous one so everyone can have a chance to look at the fact and decide that "who is right and who is wrong"

In last 4 hours ZH facebook fan has gone by 300, mashaAllah [clap] [clap]

 

[dukelondon]

[quote="Mujahid????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?? ??

??? ?? ?? ??? ???? ??? [/quote]

100% agree with you. Is Jahil Maulvi nay kabhi school ki shakal nahi dekhi hogi aur ilm say is kay koi wasta nahi hoga. Sirf chand ratay rataiy jumlay logon ko emotional karnay kay liye. Is ko Adalat ka matlab bhi sahi say nahi pata aur kehta hai kay ????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?? ?? .Is ka kaam sirf logon ko wajib-ul-Qatl thairaana hai jaisay kay MaazAllah ye Khuda hai. Bayhairat Besharam Maulvi.

I'm not a Zaid Hamid supporter because he talks a lot of nonsense and war rhetoric and I dont buy his story of Khilafat and all. But when he is saying that he does not believe in Yusuf as a Prophet, we should take his word for that and stop blaming him. I think Zaid is trying to say that Yusuf did not claim that he was a Prophet. He rather claimed other things that Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) came in his dream and told him certain things. Yousuf must be using all of this to gain popularity but I think what Zaid is trying to say is that Yousuf was not saying that he was a Prophet. This is what I've understood from Zaid's interview in the video.

Allah(SWT) knows best what Yousuf was really upto. Does anyone have Yousuf's statement or video proclaiming Prophethood ? If yes, please post here. JazakAllah

 

[wsher]

[quote="Mujahid????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?? ??

??? ?? ?? ??? ???? ???

100% agree with you. Is Jahil Maulvi nay kabhi school ki shakal nahi dekhi hogi aur ilm say is kay koi wasta nahi hoga. Sirf chand ratay rataiy jumlay logon ko emotional karnay kay liye. Is ko Adalat ka matlab bhi sahi say nahi pata aur kehta hai kay ????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?? ?? .Is ka kaam sirf logon ko wajib-ul-Qatl thairaana hai jaisay kay MaazAllah ye Khuda hai. Bayhairat Besharam Maulvi.

I'm not a Zaid Hamid supporter because he talks a lot of nonsense and war rhetoric and I dont buy his story of Khilafat and all. But when he is saying that he does not believe in Yusuf as a Prophet, we should take his word for that and stop blaming him. I think Zaid is trying to say that Yusuf did not claim that he was a Prophet. He rather claimed other things that Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) came in his dream and told him certain things. Yousuf must be using all of this to gain popularity but I think what Zaid is trying to say is that Yousuf was not saying that he was a Prophet. This is what I've understood from Zaid's interview in the video.

Allah(SWT) knows best what Yousuf was really upto. Does anyone have Yousuf's statement or video proclaiming Prophethood ? If yes, please post here. JazakAllah[/quote]

They do not have any video proofs but they want us to trust their words of mouth. :shock:

 

[Tabrez]

Recently I was listening to a speaker who was talking about a war between Pakistan and India, and was quoting some hadeeth to support that the Prophet made predictions about the Muslim conquest of India. The speaker was promoting a dangerous philosophy advocating a deadly war between two nuclear armed nations.

As is always the case with me, I decided to review this alleged hadeeth in the light of Gods Book al-Quran. I wanted to know if the Quran supports this claim and if there is any indication in the Quran that the Prophet made predictions about future events events of the ghaib or unknown and if it were part of the mission that was assigned to him by God. The following verses from the Quran give a completely different picture than what the speaker was implying in his speech:

Say [O Prophet]: It is not within my power to bring benefit to, or avert harm from, myself, except as God may please. And if I knew that which is beyond the reach of human perception, abundant good fortune-would surely have fallen to my lot, and no evil would ever have touched me. I am nothing but a warner, and a herald of glad tidings unto people who will believe. (Quran 7:188)

I was struck by this extremely plain and logical verse from the Quran. The prophet is made to say that if he did have knowledge of the future ghaib then no calamities would have befallen him and he would have all the treasures of the world. The history tells us that the Prophet faced severe hardships in his life, which he could have avoided had he known what is in the future.

The above verse is not the only verse where the Prophet is made to declare that he has no knowledge of the ghaib. There are several other verses emphasizing this point. Here are a few examples:

Say [O Prophet]: I do not say unto you, God's treasures are with me,; nor [do I say], I know the things that are beyond the reach of human perception; nor do I say unto you, Behold, I am an angel: I but follow what is revealed to me. Say: Can the blind and the seeing be deemed equal? Will you not, then, take thought? (Quran 6:50)

This declaration of the Prophet was not new. Prophets before him also made such declarations as well.

Prophet Noah said:

And I do not say unto you, God's treasures are with me; nor [do I say], I know the reality which is beyond the reach of human perception; nor do I say, Behold, I am an angel; nor do I say of those whom your eyes hold in contempt, Never will God grant them any good- for God is fully aware of what is in their hearts. Were I to speak thus, verily, I would indeed be among the evildoers. (Quran 11:31)
What is revealed to the Prophet of the ghaib is identified clearly in the Quran as the stories of the past prophets:

These accounts of something that was beyond the reach of thy perception We [now] reveal unto thee, [O Muhammad: for] neither thou nor thy people knew them [fully] ere this. Be, then, [like Noah,] patient in adversity - for, behold, the future belongs to the God-conscious! (Quran 11:49)

This account of something that was beyond the reach of thy perception We [now] reveal unto thee, [O Prophet:] for thou wert not with Joseph's brothers when they resolved upon what they were going to do and wove their schemes [against him]. (Quran 12:102)

It is sad that people invent stories that have no basis in the Quran and that defy the Quran. Since the Quran is the Furqan the criterion to distinguish between what is correct and what is false, we should always seek its help in determining if a certain idea or report or story - especially as it pertains to the Prophet - is correct or false.

Or have they a ladder by which they could [ascend to ultimate truths and] listen [to what is beyond the reach of human perception]? Let, then, any of them who have listened [to it] produce a manifest proof [of his knowledge]! (Quran 52:38)
There are traditions that describe the details of the last Day and the signs that herald the coming of the last Day. However, Only God knows the coming of the hour and It will come suddenly:

They will ask thee [O Prophet] about the Last hour: When will it come to pass? Say: Verily, knowledge thereof rests with my Sustainer alone. None but He will reveal it in its time. Heavily will it weigh on the heavens and the earth; [and] it will not fall upon you otherwise than of a sudden. They will ask thee - as if thou couldst gain insight into this [mystery] by dint of persistent inquiry! Say: knowledge thereof rests with my Sustainer alone; but [of this] most people are unaware. (Quran 7:187)

Verily, with God alone rests the knowledge of when the Last hour will come: and He [it is who] sends down rain; and He [alone] knows what is in the wombs: whereas no one knows what he will reap tomorrow, and no one knows in what land he will die, Verily. God [alone] is all-knowing, all-aware. (Quran 31:34)

People will ask thee about the Last hour. Say: knowledge thereof rests with God alone; yet for all thou knowest, the Last hour may well be near! (Quran 33:63)

In none of the above verses the Prophet is made to say that yes such and such events will indicate that the Last Hour is near. It is strange that the Book of God makes no such claims on behalf of the Prophet, and yet, the traditions are full of stories of details will happen near the time of Qiamat and these traditions show contrary to the reports in the Quran that the Prophet had knowledge of all these future events.

The fact is that it was not the mission of the Prophet to forecast or predict the future, and nowhere is he shown in the Quran to ever make any such claims about the ghaib. As opposed to that he is clearly made to identify his mission in the Quran in no uncertain terms so that the people after him do not invent false stories about his mission.

The Mission of the Prophet:
"You are NOTHING but a Warner <in inta illa nazeerun>. Surely We have sent you with the truth as a bearer of GOOD NEWS and a WARNER <basheerun wa nazeerun>, and there is not a people but a Warner has gone among them."(Quran 35:23-24)

"Do they not reflect that their companion has not unsoundness in mind; he is ONLY A PLAIN WARNER <Illa Nazeerum Mubeenun>." (Quran 7:184)

"Then, it may be that you will give up part of what is revealed to you and your breast will become straitened by it because they say: Why has not a treasure been sent down upon him or an angel come with him? You are ONLY A WARNER< <innama anta nazeerun>; and it is Allah that arranges all affairs." (Quran 11:12)

And We have not sent you BUT as a giver of good news and as a warner <wama arsalnaka illa mubashirun wa nazeerun>." (Quran 25:56)

"Say: I exhort you only to ONE thing, that rise up for Allah's sake in twos and singly, then reflect: there is no madness in your companion; he is NOTHING BUT A WARNER to you <hua illa nazeerun> before a severe chastisement." (Quran 34:46)

"Say: I am ONLY a warner <innama ana munzirun>, and there is no god but Allah, the One, the Subduer (of all)." (Quran 38:65)

"ONLY this has been revealed to me: that I am to give warning plainly <in yuHaiya illaiya illa annama ana nazeerum mubeenun>."(Quran 38:70)

"Say: O people! I am ONLY A PLAIN WARNER to you <ana lakum nazeerum mubeenun>." (Quran 22:49)

I am commanded ONLY that I should serve the Lord of this city, Who has made it sacred, and His are all things; and I am commanded that I should be of these who submit; and that I should RECITE THE QUR'AN. Therefore whoever goes aright, he goes aright for his own soul, and whoever goes astray, then say: I am ONLY ONE OF THE WARNERS <inama ana minul munzareena>. (Quran 27:91-92)

"And they say: Why are not signs sent down upon him from his Lord? Say: The signs are only with Allah, and I am only a plain warner <innama ana nazeerum mubeenun>." (Quran 29:50)

"They say: When will this promise come true if you speak the truth? Say: The knowledge is with Allah only, and I am ONLY a plain warner <innama ana nazeerum mubeenun>."(Quran 67:26)

In no uncertain terms the Prophet has been made to emphasize his mission on this earth: He is only here to warn that consequences of bad actions will be bad, and to give good news that the consequences of good actions will be good. He is not here to establish Gods government or kingdom on earth (Gods government has always been on earth and will always be there whether there are Muslims in the world or not); and he is not here to make predictions of future wars.

The fact is that certain individuals are using falsehood to perpetrate war and bloodshed on earth. They promote these false ideas in the guise of Islam (Peace).These are the individuals against whom the Quran warns:

When it is said to them: Make not mischief on the earth, they say: Why, we only want to make peace! Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not. (Quran 2:11-12)

We should be aware of such people and always use the Quran the Furqan to distinguish what is right from what is wrong.