Why Zulfi Bukhari’s name removed from ECL? Asif Mahmood

[Kavalier]

Both Hassan and Hussain didn't spend their lifetime making that money like Zulfi.They become billionaires by the age of 13 when they were living in Pakistan.Nor, Zulfi had a three time prime minister as his father.Remember what Nab prosecutor said that having properties on your son, daughter name is how corrupt practices are done in Pakistan.Neither did Zulfi lied about being owner of those properties.No way to compare both scenarios.

Can NAB simply ask him about money trail of his capital which he used to start that business?

 

[Hate_Nooras]

@Kavalier, what is the actual issue? if he has committed corruption then by all means put him in the ECL, but so far no one has said anything about any charges.

 

[Kavalier]

Has the guy committed corruption in PK? if he hasnt and there isnt any interpol warrants, what is the issue.

How will you know if he has done corruption or not by not investigating it and asking him about the money trail???

 

[Kavalier]

@Kavalier, what is the actual issue? if he has committed corruption then by all means put him in the ECL, but so far no one has said anything about any charges.

Sir the issue is not Zulfi, not ECL etc.... The issue is IK and PTI, why can't we ask IK questions? Why can't we make someone accountable? Why do we have to defend every right or wrong of IK/PTI? If we want change, it comes from the top and top is IK; he should be under the microscope and answerable to all his actions. In principle, if Zulfi name is in ECL, it is interior ministry and courts who have to decide whether it should be removed or not, why would IK, still with no official position, try to take someone with him whose name is on ECL? IK or PTI should have themselves shouted that his name is on ECL, he should not be allowed to leave the country until the concerned agencies are satisfied.

As I said above, if we start defending them like this, they will be fearless and will think themselves as Gods, not answerable to anything. Today, it seems something small, but it will only grow if we do not raise it as an issue, as they say, nip the evil in the bud.

 

[miafridi]

Why lose heart before even trying and contesting? If you go in with the fear of defeat, you will definitely lose. I would like a gradual but real change instead of short-cuts and eventually landing in bigger trouble than today. I hope I answered the question, if not please rephrase your question, may be I am too simple to understand. :)

Electables are not new to PTI. Don't know why Media and people are reacting as if PTI has suddenly started to do something. If you don't remember the past very well, let me remind you, that Electables like Javed Hashmi, Shah Mehmood Qureshi, Khursheed Qasuri, started joining PTI after 2010. So electables are nothing new to PTI.. Yes but if those electables are clear convicts or criminals then there is always resistance within PTI against them, and we always resist them. You could also see that PTI kicked out 20 MPA's, while it could turn a blind eye on them and they could easily win again for PTI in KPK, but PTI didn't turn a blind eye and this was a great thing..

In short Electables are not new to PTI so we shouldn't be too emotional about it. But yes we should always raise our voice against any clear criminal..

 

[Hate_Nooras]

Sir the issue is not Zulfi, not ECL etc.... The issue is IK and PTI, why can't we ask IK questions? Why can't we make someone accountable? Why do we have to defend every right or wrong of IK/PTI? If we want change, it comes from the top and top is IK; he should be under the microscope and answerable to all his actions. In principle, if Zulfi name is in ECL, it is interior ministry and courts who have to decide whether it should be removed or not, why would IK, still with no official position, try to take someone with him whose name is on ECL? IK or PTI should have themselves shouted that his name is on ECL, he should not be allowed to leave the country until the concerned agencies are satisfied.

As I said above, if we start defending them like this, they will be fearless and will think themselves as Gods, not answerable to anything. Today, it seems something small, but it will only grow if we do not raise it as an issue, as they say, nip the evil in the bud.

So IK has to become some sort of Sheriff for everyone in PK. If IK was in power and doesnt reform the Criminal Justice system then your criticism is valid but he isnt. If this guy Zulfi is corrupt deal with him, but as always the Nooras who were in govt alleged corruption against IK and SKMH but no court cases were ever brought forward, why?

 

[Wikki]

sawal ye hai ke aik corrupt admi jo NAB ko matlob hai jis ka Pakistani Passport block hai, jis ka baap bhi corrupt hai wo IK ke sath kar kia raha hai aur IK kio us ka plane use kar raha hai

 

[Kavalier]

So IK has to become some sort of Sheriff for everyone in PK. If IK was in power and doesnt reform the Criminal Justice system then your criticism is valid but he isnt. If this guy Zulfi is corrupt deal with him, but as always the Nooras who were in govt alleged corruption against IK and SKMH but no court cases were ever brought forward, why?

Sir you win, as I see you beating around the bush like Parwaris but not answering my basic question of sticking to the principle of one Pakistan and asking NAB/Courts to perform their duties and ask anyone for corruption and money trail. Same question asked in different words by @Wikki in post 31, in case you understand his words better than mine.
Thank you for your time though.

 

[Kavalier]

Electables are not new to PTI. Don't know why Media and people are reacting as if PTI has suddenly started to do something. If you don't remember the past very well, let me remind you, that Electables like Javed Hashmi, Shah Mehmood Qureshi, Khursheed Qasuri, started joining PTI after 2010. So electables are nothing new to PTI.. Yes but if those electables are clear convicts or criminals then there is always resistance within PTI against them, and we always resist them. You could also see that PTI kicked out 20 MPA's, while it could turn a blind eye on them and they could easily win again for PTI in KPK, but PTI didn't turn a blind eye and this was a great thing..

In short Electables are not new to PTI so we shouldn't be too emotional about it. But yes we should always raise our voice against any clear criminal..

Afridi Bahi, to be honest and keeping God as my witness, I even reacted at that time when PTI started including Shah Mehmoods and the likes. The logic was same as today in this case that if as a supporter/member of a party, you do not stop a small wring step in the start, it will become a norm later and everyone will be defending it to hell. Now we see, almost everyone is the same who were in PMLN; PMLQ, PPP etc, if they were as good as you guys are portraying, why did nt they stand up against the system in last 50 years? I know I am repeating myself but this is a parliamentary system, these will be the guys whom the prime minister will be banking on, they are the ones who have to perform. Also if only 20-30 of them will gang up, (which they will whenever they need it) Govt will be hijacked, then either IK/PTI will have to leave Govt or run it the way it has been running for last 50 years.
Why cant we simply ask questions, why we have to prove ourselves right every time?

 

[Anonymous Paki]

really disappointed at Klasra

 

[PappuChikna]

How come this young londa is best and close friends with a man probably near double his age?

 

[GreenMaple]

Hahahaha, Sir I do not want to start another debate here about Jinnah and creation of Pakistan and what happened to it right after its creation till now. That may spoil the whole distorted history which one learns in Pakistan Studies. Jinnah ko tou uskay aik simple say sarkari employee nay order nahi mana tha, khotay sikkon nay kahan lift karani thi....

Remember, this is no dictatorship, this is parliamentary system where a PM is nothing if even a group of 20-25 members stands against him. Do you think these "khotay sikkay" will let him do anything? No sir, this is your wrong assumption, mark my words, either IK will have to leave/break government within a couple of years or he will turn into a puppet in the hands of these "khotay sikkay".

I gave that example just to make a point that if leadership at the top is determined and sincere then it can achieve results even when it is dealt a weak hand (in bridge terminology).

 

[miafridi]

Afridi Bahi, to be honest and keeping God as my witness, I even reacted at that time when PTI started including Shah Mehmoods and the likes. The logic was same as today in this case that if as a supporter/member of a party, you do not stop a small wring step in the start, it will become a norm later and everyone will be defending it to hell. Now we see, almost everyone is the same who were in PMLN; PMLQ, PPP etc, if they were as good as you guys are portraying, why did nt they stand up against the system in last 50 years? I know I am repeating myself but this is a parliamentary system, these will be the guys whom the prime minister will be banking on, they are the ones who have to perform. Also if only 20-30 of them will gang up, (which they will whenever they need it) Govt will be hijacked, then either IK/PTI will have to leave Govt or run it the way it has been running for last 50 years.
Why cant we simply ask questions, why we have to prove ourselves right every time?

I am really not arguing with you on the point that new faces will be much better than the old faces, because this is absolutely the right statement no one can probably deny..

But a wise person has to decide based on the condition and ground realities and not based on emotions. We have seen for 23 years of IK's struggle that he hasn't been able to convince people to vote for new faces and people are still voting those who have the money and resources to solve people's issues like doing jirga for them, building roads for them, building streets, installing transformers for them etc etc and this is likely to be the same for decades to come.

So in all this scenario it will be very naive to go with new faces only(to loose big time or) to win a few seats having no impact on the larger policy. And even those new faces are not guaranteed to be any better than any of the already established electables(just look at the 20 MPA's of KPK). But still there will be nothing better than going with new faces and winning with them, but if you already know that it is less likely to happen and as a result electables from the same old traditional opposition parties would win with Zardari, Nawaz, Shehbaz, Or maryam as their head, I would prefer an electable of a party whose head is Imran khan. It is not ideal but it is better than any other scenario, specially when Imran khan's age can't allow experimenting anymore, and that we don't have trust on any other leader having a vision like Imran khan for his country..

 

[FANNE]

really disappointed at Klasra

call khalai makhluq then .

 

[Anonymous Paki]

call khalai makhluq then .

khalai makhlooq ka hi tu banda hai ye

 

[Kavalier]

I am really not arguing with you on the point that new faces will be much better than the old faces, because this is absolutely the right statement no one can probably deny..

But a wise person has to decide based on the condition and ground realities and not based on emotions. We have seen for 23 years of IK's struggle that he hasn't been able to convince people to vote for new faces and people are still voting those who have the money and resources to solve people's issues like doing jirga for them, building roads for them, building streets, installing transformers for them etc etc and this is likely to be the same for decades to come.

So in all this scenario it will be very naive to go with new faces only(to loose big time or) to win a few seats having no impact on the larger policy. And even those new faces are not guaranteed to be any better than any of the already established electables(just look at the 20 MPA's of KPK). But still there will be nothing better than going with new faces and winning with them, but if you already know that it is less likely to happen and as a result electables from the same old traditional opposition parties would win with Zardari, Nawaz, Shehbaz, Or maryam as their head, I would prefer an electable of a party whose head is Imran khan. It is not ideal but it is better than any other scenario, specially when Imran khan's age can't allow experimenting anymore, and that we don't have trust on any other leader having a vision like Imran khan for his country..

Afridi bahi, lets agree to disagree..... I respect your and PTI's stand on this and will support PTI on any day but will not stop giving my opinion if I feel something can be bettered.