When were the first books of Hadith written after the death of Prophet SAWW

Wake up Pak

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
The fact that the sahaba wrote the Quran under the prophets supervision is also hadith in itself. So if we don't beleive in hadith than the authenticity of Quran also comes under question.
I'm perplexed and astonished that you are denying the veracity & authenticity of the Quran based on some manufactured ahadith that were composed more than 200 years after the Prophet Mohammad passed away.
This is the first time I have ever heard such a claim. Even the staunch supporters of Ahadith won't say anything to that effect.

I should have had enough Quranic verses to refute your allegations from the ones I previously posted. Again, the Ahadith are filled with inconsistencies, contradictions, and blatant insults to the Prophet Mohammad, whereas the Quran is the word of God and is free from all of these.
 

Qutubddin Aibak Qazilbash

Councller (250+ posts)
I'm perplexed and astonished that you are denying the veracity &
I have myself been dumb struck by some of the replies I have read so far. I had convinced myself that I was mis-reading or just not 'getting it' but it is true Rambler has been equating hadeeth and quran as the same thing !😀
I mean, i have read lot of shit but this one takes the biscuit.
That is ludicrous even by my ownconspiracy theorist/revisionist frame of mind:-)
I give up. There is no point in arguing further. Its like trying to reason with a stone.
 
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GuyFawkes

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
آپ بتائیں کہ ہمارے لئے کیا حکم ہے؟ ان مفید معلومات کی روشنی میں ہمیں کیا کرنا چاہیے اور کیا نہیں کرنا چاہیے؟
I don't reject hadith in a complete sense, I think a lot tawatur and sunnah can be found mixed with asar and akhbar-ul-ahaad within these historical documents, but essentially we should not base our faith on these books.
 

GuyFawkes

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
I can read the Quran myself - Please answer my questions:

Who told you Quran is God's word?

How did you come to know that Quran was recorded under the DIRECT supervision of the prophet Muhammad ?

How did you come to know that the Quran was memorized word for word as soon as it was transmitted?

Citizen X help him

This is a bullshit question, by virtue of being a muslim we know accept the prophethood of Muhammad saww and the book that was revealed to him. Do you really think that quran need hadith to be recognized as book of God? Religion is a leap of faith.
BTW sunnah has been transferred more rigorously compare to akhbar al ahaan and asar so you are mixed three different things.
 

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
I can read the Quran myself - Please answer my questions:

Who told you Quran is God's word?

How did you come to know that Quran was recorded under the DIRECT supervision of the prophet Muhammad ?

How did you come to know that the Quran was memorized word for word as soon as it was transmitted?

Citizen X help him
Seems like your the one that needs help since you can't seem to make the distinction between Quran ( word revealed to mankind through his prophet ) and hadith ( word of man scribed down centuries later by defeated Persians that had an axe to grind against the Arabs and still do for brining down their "glorious Persian empire" something they remain sore about till this day)

And before you ask, which I know you will, how do I know the Quran is the word of God? One reason among many because of all the scientific knowledge in it, which is impossible for a man living in the desert 1400 years ago to know who did not attend any universities or lived in center of knowledges of the time, scientific knowledge some of which the rest of world came to know of very recently.

Like how becomes difficult to man to breathe the higher up he goes, or how its becomes darker and then eventually pitch black the deeper you dive into the ocean, that pain receptors are present only in the skin, the whole birth cycle, how the planets have orbits so on and so forth.

Then there are many other reasons also. Like how the Quran has no contradictions, predicted the success of the Prophet and Islam in general for it to spread winning unwinnable battles against massive forces and armies. There is basically proof for every man from all walks and all types of thinking men/women on why the Quran is the true book of Allah, if one only cares to read and ponder.

And once you have established the Quran is a book of Allah then you cannot just believe in bits and pieces of it and then choose to ignore parts.

And you talk about keeping an open mind? This is exactly what I implore you to do. You think it was easy growing up living, obeying, worshipping, praying, regular hadith beliveing, Sunni, Mullah following, born in a Muslim household man for 45 years and then realizing after two years of deep dive looking into and research that 99% of what you have been believing and following is nothing but a big lie?

I can't say for sure but I think this is even more difficult to do that converting to a Muslim from a religion like Hinduism or something.

Trust me, it will mess up your mind and play all sorts of games in your head. BUT Alhamdulillah every doubt and fear I would come across the Quran itself would clear. For example. For the longest time I thought I can't be right. This is so wroooooonnng!

How come so many Muslims and for so many years/centuries be wrong about it. It must be that I am the one who is wrong and at fault with my thinking.

But then I came across the Ayah 170 from Surah Baqarah : And when it is said to them, "Follow what Allah has revealed," they say, "Rather, we will follow that which we found our fathers doing." Even though their fathers understood nothing, nor were they guided?

So just because a large number of people have been believing and doing something, doesn't make it right. And numbers and age of a belief or practice doesn't matter.

This is just one instance. There have been many like this along the way. And I am not 100% there yet and still learning. But my basic concepts have been cleared and I believe I am if not on the right path, certainly heading in the direction of the right path.
 
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Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
You guys are such imbeciles

These Hadith were written down and taught in schools since the time of Prophet Muhammad , Schools were established at the time of Muhammad for boys girls men and women. Documents existed these documents were collected in book format by the above mentioned authors.
Dude you have absolutely nothing to offer and yet you do this every time.

Provide any proof to your tall claims that schools were established that taught hadith during the Prophets time.
Provide proof of these so called documents that existed in book format no less

Now I know exactly how you will reply because you can't prove anything. You will make a few more cheap insults, pretend that all of this is beneath you and exit the thread with your tail between your legs. AS ALWAYS!
 

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
This is a bullshit question, by virtue of being a muslim we know accept the prophethood of Muhammad saww and the book that was revealed to him. Do you really think that quran need hadith to be recognized as book of God? Religion is a leap of faith.
BTW sunnah has been transferred more rigorously compare to akhbar al ahaan and asar so you are mixed three different things.
99% of the people don't even know what khabr al wahad and muttawatar is and even less know how many hadith are khabr al wahad and how many muttawatar. A very very tiny percentage less than 0.4% and I am being generous here. From ALL the 1000s of hadith transmitted, depending on methodology and sect. Only between 100 to 300 hadith are actually classified as muttawatar!
 

GuyFawkes

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
99% of the people don't even know what khabr al wahad and muttawatar is and even less know how many hadith are khabr al wahad and how many muttawatar. A very very tiny percentage less than 0.4% and I am being generous here. From ALL the 1000s of hadith transmitted, depending on methodology and sect. Only between 100 to 300 hadith are actually classified as muttawatar!
I agree, but to say that we don't know anything about the prophet's time is also dishonest. specially the major events at the time of the prophet are preserved.
I was thinking about using chat gpt like technique to dig out the inner workings of ilm-e-hadith, it is not possible for a human being to do it all but I am sure we can filter out a lot of made-up stuff.
But in any case I don't think that we should rely too much on Hadith, Quran is more than enough for us, the best argument I have for this is the fact that if there was more information needed , God would have revealed more surahs, as neither prophet saww nor Jabril was going to complain about it. Quran was sent as the perfect and balanced book, nothing less or more.
 

NasNY

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Dude you have absolutely nothing to offer and yet you do this every time.

Provide any proof to your tall claims that schools were established that taught hadith during the Prophets time.
Provide proof of these so called documents that existed in book format no less

Now I know exactly how you will reply because you can't prove anything. You will make a few more cheap insults, pretend that all of this is beneath you and exit the thread with your tail between your legs. AS ALWAYS!
Only people that attack the Hadith are shias. I don’t hate Shias don’t get me wrong but it is a known fact.
 

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Only people that attack the Hadith are shias. I don’t hate Shias don’t get me wrong but it is a known fact.
Just goes to show you know nothing but yet keep interjecting yourself into these conversations. FYI Shias have their own set of hadiths which are ever more wonky and uncredible than the sunni hadith.
 

NasNY

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Just goes to show you know nothing but yet keep interjecting yourself into these conversations. FYI Shias have their own set of hadiths which are ever more wonky and uncredible than the sunni hadith.
You haven’t read any books only live on Wikipedia.
I have read Islamic history books since I was in 8 th grade my father, grandfather had a library of 10,000 Islamic books going back to the 1800s. Before the advent of internet. On Friday all we did was read books. All your childish questions have been answered long long time ago.

Go look up who were the teachers of Abu Hanifa, imam Malik.
 

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
You haven’t read any books only live on Wikipedia.
I have read Islamic history books since I was in 8 th grade my father, grandfather had a library of 10,000 Islamic books going back to the 1800s. Before the advent of internet. On Friday all we did was read books. All your childish questions have been answered long long time ago.

Go look up who were the teachers of Abu Hanifa, imam Malik.
Apparently you have been wasting your time since the 8th grade because you didn't even know shia also have their own hadith. And also all that knowledge you claim to have, has all gone to waste, because till date you haven't provided a single argument or point but just shit post in threads like these and run away. As I mentioned earlier.

Dude you have absolutely nothing to offer and yet you do this every time.

Provide any proof to your tall claims that schools were established that taught hadith during the Prophets time.
Provide proof of these so called documents that existed in book format no less

Now I know exactly how you will reply because you can't prove anything. You will make a few more cheap insults, pretend that all of this is beneath you and exit the thread with your tail between your legs. AS ALWAYS!

Go look at your own posting history, nothing but just mindless drivel. Every in this thread you make such tall claims and can provide nothing to back them i.e tall claims = bullshit.
 

NasNY

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Apparently you have been wasting your time since the 8th grade because you didn't even know shia also have their own hadith. And also all that knowledge you claim to have, has all gone to waste, because till date you haven't provided a single argument or point but just shit post in threads like these and run away. As I mentioned earlier.



Go look at your own posting history, nothing but just mindless drivel. Every in this thread you make such tall claims and can provide nothing to back them i.e tall claims = bullshit.
Here is a link for the wiki children.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shafi'i


Go look under Islamic scholars
 

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Here is a link for the wiki children.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shafi'i


Go look under Islamic scholars
LOL you think Im not familiar with the most popular four madhabs and their imams. I came from Shafi household.

And how does this wiki link back up any of your tall i.e bullshit claims?

Which were let me jog your memory

1.These Hadith were written down and taught in schools since the time of Prophet Muhammad

2.Schools were established at the time of Muhammad for boys girls men and women.

3.Documents existed these documents were collected in book format by the above mentioned authors
 

NasNY

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
LOL you think Im not familiar with the most popular four madhabs and their imams. I came from Shafi household.

And how does this wiki link back up any of your tall i.e bullshit claims?

Which were let me jog your memory

1.These Hadith were written down and taught in schools since the time of Prophet Muhammad

2.Schools were established at the time of Muhammad for boys girls men and women.

3.Documents existed these documents were collected in book format by the above mentioned authors
Rest is all up to you not going spoon feed you. Best of luck
 

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Rest is all up to you not going spoon feed you. Best of luck
Its obvious you have no clue how debates work. If you make a claim then the onus is on YOU to prove your claim. Not for the other party to go verify your claims.

If I say you are a Mirzai, then its my job to prove you are a mirzai, not your job to prove you are not.

So next time either stay out of the conversation or if you are going to come and make up bullshit be ready to back it up.
 

NasNY

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Its obvious you have no clue how debates work. If you make a claim then the onus is on YOU to prove your claim. Not for the other party to go verify your claims.

If I say you are a Mirzai, then its my job to prove you are a mirzai, not your job to prove you are not.

So next time either stay out of the conversation or if you are going to come and make up bullshit be ready to back it up.
This is a forum not a debating platform, make a comment and move on with life make real friends. Not virtual.
 

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
This is a forum not a debating platform, make a comment and move on with life make real friends. Not virtual.
Forum IS a platform/medium for debate and exchange of ideas. Not a place to fling bullshit around like you.

Forum, noun : a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
  1. "we hope these pages act as a forum for debate"


    If you had anything credible to backup your bullshit you would have posted it by now, instead of back peddling and making up all sorts of excuses.​
 

NasNY

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Forum IS a platform/medium for debate and exchange of ideas. Not a place to fling bullshit around like you.

Forum, noun : a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
  1. "we hope these pages act as a forum for debate"


    If you had anything credible to backup your bullshit you would have posted it by now, instead of back peddling and making up all sorts of excuses.​
I feel for how miserable you are , seek medical help ease yourself back into reality.
 

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
I feel for how miserable you are , seek medical help ease yourself back into reality.
Exactly what I expecting from you, people like you when they get caught with their pants down then resort to such childish drivel.

You can have your face saving for now but next time be careful, like I said either keep your bullshit to yourself or don't get all pissy when someone calls you on your bullshit
 

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