Views On News - 15th November 2010 - Arif Nizami, Orya Maqbool Jan

[Views on News]

 

[tiger54]

arif nizami clearly owned this stupid orya maqbool!
great show Dr Shahid!!

 

[Abdul Allah]

well i think both agreed on most(almost all) points
So i wonder on the comment

 

[Abdul Allah]

and in the last part Mr. orya give two examples one from UK and one from US and Mr. Arif was not able to negate it.
So I wonder what is the base of the comment

 

[tiger54]

Well Arnold Schwarzenegger became the senator of California even though he was born in Austria so orya's point that no country has equal rights is absolutely wrong atleast for US coz i have lived here most of my life! and v cant hide our own mistakes saying that no country has freedom of speech coz here i being a muslim of pakistani origin can say/do anything as long as i dont physically try to hurt anyone!
god bless!

and in the last part Mr. orya give two examples one from UK and one from US and Mr. Arif was not able to negate it.
So I wonder what is the base of the comment

 

[Abdul Allah]

tiger he talk about president not Governor
and as far as i remember They even try to create rumors about Obama that he cant be president as he do not have US birth certificate
and if you perform little research before saying anything it will help you.
please look for "Article Two of the United States Constitution" and check Clause 5: Qualifications for office
I hope now it must be clear. Thanks

 

[Bret Hawk]

After a long time Dr Masood has presented a very good programme which is centered on the academic topic of “Democratic System” and its viability for third world countries in general and to Muslim countries in specific. First and foremost the Eugenic-laden democratic philosophy of Plato, which was rightly alluded by Orya Sahab, was the basis of almost every theory and ideology of fascism and extreme sense of territorial and racial nationalism in the world. And if we go for that sort of system than surely in Pakistan for example we will introduce the recipe of disaster which has the capacity to further instigate the internal centrifugal forces.

Secondly if we just go through the political philosophy of Al Farabi, who was termed as the great second Peripatetic master even by the European intellectuals as well, we can easily detect few interesting points in his political discourse related to the best possible political systems. Among many other systems / forms of political governance Al Farabi singled out Monarchy, Aristocracy and Democracy as the most potent forms of governance one can perceive according to the needs of the masses. He rightfully criticized and exposed the inherent flaws of Monarchy and Democracy and rather proposed the notion of adjunction of Aristocratic-Democracy as the best possible form of governance a state can adopt.

Aristocracy should not be perceived as the dominance of influential and wealthy elite of any state which bears a separate title of Plutocracy by the political scientists. True constituents of Aristocracy according to the experts are the intellectual powerhouse of any given state along with the highly competitive soft skills holders as well. The main reason according to people like Al Farabi is that in pure form of democracies the stake holders of that system always wish to pursue the limited, myopic and self-centered policies of their respective nations based primarily on the framework of a particular race community and sect (Which can relate to any form of ideology), which in return becomes a source of friction, disillusionment and resultant communal, sectarian, tribal and racial hostilities within a state and the same sort of conflict also has the tendency to escalate among the nation states as well.

Pure and sole form of Aristocracy on the other hand usually becomes alienated from the main issues of the common masses and normally focuses its attention to the wishes and dictates of the ruling establishments or monarchies of a specific nation state and become their ideological watchdogs despite of their remarkable tendency to churn out a better political and administrative system for a state. Therefore (Any form of) Democracy if develops a cordial relationship with competent Aristocracy in any given tract of land then it has an enormous potential to develop a well refined and effective political system. The rightly guided Caliphate of early epoch of Islam had that enormous potential to provide that influential system to the world had it not faced the paucity of time due to the unfortunate events which immediately followed after the untimely assassination of the great Hazrat Ali RA and eventually a prolonged and corrupt to the core monarchy holds its sway in the heartlands of Islamic empire, which is still prevalent in current age as well along with some modifications and alterations according to the current needs of this age.

 

[Night-Hawk]

After a long time Dr Masood has presented a very good programme which is centered on the academic topic of “Democratic System” and its viability for third world countries in general and to Muslim countries in specific. First and foremost the Eugenic-laden democratic philosophy of Plato, which was rightly alluded by Orya Sahab, was the basis of almost every theory and ideology of fascism and extreme sense of territorial and racial nationalism in the world. And if we go for that sort of system than surely in Pakistan for example we will introduce the recipe of disaster which has the capacity to further instigate the internal centrifugal forces.

Secondly if we just go through the political philosophy of Al Farabi, who was termed as the great second Peripatetic master even by the European intellectuals as well, we can easily detect few interesting points in his political discourse related to the best possible political systems. Among many other systems / forms of political governance Al Farabi singled out Monarchy, Aristocracy and Democracy as the most potent forms of governance one can perceive according to the needs of the masses. He rightfully criticized and exposed the inherent flaws of Monarchy and Democracy and rather proposed the notion of adjunction of Aristocratic-Democracy as the best possible form of governance a state can adopt.

Aristocracy should not be perceived as the dominance of influential and wealthy elite of any state which bears a separate title of Plutocracy by the political scientists. True constituents of Aristocracy according to the experts are the intellectual powerhouse of any given state along with the highly competitive soft skills holders as well. The main reason according to people like Al Farabi is that in pure form of democracies the stake holders of that system always wish to pursue the limited, myopic and self-centered policies of their respective nations based primarily on the framework of a particular race community and sect (Which can relate to any form of ideology), which in return becomes a source of friction, disillusionment and resultant communal, sectarian, tribal and racial hostilities within a state and the same sort of conflict also has the tendency to escalate among the nation states as well.

Pure and sole form of Aristocracy on the other hand usually becomes alienated from the main issues of the common masses and normally focuses its attention to the wishes and dictates of the ruling establishments or monarchies of a specific nation state and become their ideological watchdogs despite of their remarkable tendency to churn out a better political and administrative system for a state. Therefore (Any form of) Democracy if develops a cordial relationship with competent Aristocracy in any given tract of land then it has an enormous potential to develop a well refined and effective political system. The rightly guided Caliphate of early epoch of Islam had that enormous potential to provide that influential system to the world had it not faced the paucity of time due to the unfortunate events which immediately followed after the untimely assassination of the great Hazrat Ali RA and eventually a prolonged and corrupt to the core monarchy holds its sway in the heartlands of Islamic empire, which is still prevalent in current age as well along with some modifications and alterations according to the current needs of this age.

Brother Bret hawk ! Very nicely written. And in above context, would you please elaborate the difference between aristocracy and technocracy? I as a layman could not discriminate between the two in technical sense.

 

[basent]

thanks for sharing'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

 

[Bret Hawk]

Brother Bret hawk ! Very nicely written. And in above context, would you please elaborate the difference between aristocracy and technocracy? I as a layman could not discriminate between the two in technical sense.

Br Night-Hawk first of all I would like to thank you for your gratifying appreciation and secondly as you’ve rightly pointed out your doubt related to the difference of Technocrats and Aristocrats, in my humble opinion after going through the corpus of political philosophies & ideologies there’s not much of a difference between these two terms semantically speaking. Although Plato and Al Farabi & Ibn Sina (Who were very much influenced by the deductive reasoning of the Greek masters) always emphasised the need of a “Philosopher King” as was mentioned by Orya Maqbool sahib in this program. That emphasis to transfer the supreme power & influence to the Philosopher Kings by the above mentioned influential figures later cleared my clogged mind that Democratically elected members of any state would only perform the administrative duties, according to the theory of Al Farabi, as per the demands and needs of their respective electorates and on the flip side of a coin the main job of policy making and designation of various administrative powers would rest in the hands of that powerful aristocracy.

Who would constitute that influential group is a prime question for experts to delineate for the masses and students of political science. I in my humble opinion can enumerate them in the forms of economic, judicial, social, religious, educationist and political experts although I would like to leave this matter to the proper experts of this discipline. One interesting model was also proposed however by the influential late cleric of Twelver Shite (Usuli faction) Imam Khumeni in the last century which was related to the influence and power of Welayat E Faqih (The guardianship of juriconsults) in Iran after the deposition of its servile monarchy in 1979. This doctrine to me was an effort from Khumeni (Subconsciously) and his like minded supporters to put that age old theory into the force & practise (With some changes of course) and now we know the role of their powerful “Jameye-e-Rohaniyat-e-Mubariz” council which can be translated as “The Combatant Clergy Association” in the power politics of Iran in current era who also happens to elect the supreme spiritual leader of Iran and also use to hold maximum power in the shape of the over-sighting of the elected President and the legislative assembly of Iran which are democratically elected as per the norms of Presidential format of modern democracy.

 

[Tanker]

oh marial tiger he was talking bout presidency..
and no matter how much you rant, standards are going to change.

Well Arnold Schwarzenegger became the senator of California even though he was born in Austria so orya's point that no country has equal rights is absolutely wrong atleast for US coz i have lived here most of my life! and v cant hide our own mistakes saying that no country has freedom of speech coz here i being a muslim of pakistani origin can say/do anything as long as i dont physically try to hurt anyone!
god bless!