USA invasion of Afghanistan. Another war that changed the course of History.

[khalilqureshi]

USA invasion of Afghanistan. Another war that changed the course of History.

There are many battles fought which changed the course of History, one of such battle which is being fought for the last 17+ years is coming to an end and USA is going to leave as a loser and going to lose its position as a super power. USA after the breakup of then USSR claimed that USSR defeat in Afghanistan has changed the course of History and USA is the only Super Power. Many observer were of the view that this is the end of history and Now no one will be able to challenge the USA dominance in world affairs. The same observers saw the rise of China from the very year, USSR broke up and now Russia is emerging as another Super Power. USA helplessness in Crimea, Syria and now defeat in Afghanistan has proved that nothing is permanent in this Universe. The Power that claimed to be only super Power for all time to come is rapidly turning into a second rate power like UK and France.

World is going too see another Super Power going to the drain of History and emergence of new Super Power soon.

USA war on terror is going to finish against USA as the biggest embarrassment in the known history as the USA is known as the biggest armed force in the History of world equipped with the most modern weapons has lost war against an army equipped with the weapons of prehistoric age. USA attacked Afghanistan with all his NATO and non-NATO allies. Now after 17 years all its NATO and non-NATO allies have left it to fight this unwinnable war and feeling their-self helpless they have requested Pakistan to bring Taliban on talks table. Another biggest embarrassment is that they are ready to sign agreement with Taliban, who they declared are enemies of humanity and terrorists. A biggest Super Power has lost a war against TERRORISTS.

Those Taliban who were the most notorious terrorist in the eyes of USA, are now only agreed to talk on their own terms and their terms are absolutely eye openers for entire world. Their demands are 1, USA accept that their invasion of Afghanistan was wrong, 2, USA should not attack Pakistan while leaving Afghanistan, 3, USA should release Dr. Afia, 4, USA term of leaving Afghanistan in 18 months is not acceptable and they should leave at once. 5, Puppet government is not the part of talk as Taliban don't accept them as a party.

Not surprising USA agreed to talk with TERRORISTS on their terms. Definitely it is based on some give and take. But one thing is inevitable. USA has been defeated and USA Afghanistan invasion is another one of the biggest war that changed the course of History.

 

[NasNY]

 

[NasNY]

 

[NasNY]

Afghans are at PEACE when they are at WAR

 

[Pathfinder]

This is without doubt quite heart breaking. The Interpreters who are completely left out and facing severe consequences. A lesson for PTM and all those who do pooja of the US

 

[Vitamin_C]

I think Afghanistan being a graveyard of empires is a myth started by the British. Afghans have been beaten many times, by Pakistan, Brits in the second Anglo-Afghan war, Alexander the Great and the Mongols.

The issue with Afghanistan is that it is right at the border between the Heartlands and the Rimlands, from the Heartland Hypothesis. Which states that Who so ever controls the heartlands, controls the world Island, whosoever controls the world Island controls the World.

The world Island is Europe, Asia, Africa combined. These places control almost all the worlds population and resources. The Heartland is Russia, central asia, mongolia. The rim land is Persian Gulf, Turkey or any area that borders the ocean. Many empires have attempted to take the heartlands, like Mongols, Alexander, Hitler, Napoleon etc... Also who ever controls the Heartland has to cross through Afghanistan to control the Rimland.

The British knew this very well so they made Afghanistan a defensive point for rimland nations because anyone who can gain control of Afghanistan can invade the Rimland or the Heartland. This is why British made the perception that Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires.

If any major power such as Germans gain control of Russia, they can dominate the world, and if Russia gains control of Afghanistan, it will dominate the world. The British have to stop both of them.

Pakistan
If you look at from Pakistan's perceptive, once Afghanistan falls, Pakistan becomes very important, as we saw in the Soviet Afghan war. This is why Pakistan is so important to USA and UK... They have to make sure Pakistan exists as a nuclear power and stays strong.
They have to prevent India from being a threat to Pakistan because if a major power like India takes Pakistan, they can threaten the heartland itself. So now China and India are also possible threats to the heartland. China is preventing India by strengthening Pakistan.

 

[Liberal 000]

Mubakaq ho naye Victory lol

 

[Liberal 000]

I think Afghanistan being a graveyard of empires is a myth started by the British. Afghans have been beaten many times, by Pakistan, Brits in the second Anglo-Afghan war, Alexander the Great and the Mongols.

The issue with Afghanistan is that it is right at the border between the Heartlands and the Rimlands, from the Heartland Hypothesis. Which states that Who so ever controls the heartlands, controls the world Island, whosoever controls the world Island controls the World.

The world Island is Europe, Asia, Africa combined. These places control almost all the worlds population and resources. The Heartland is Russia, central asia, mongolia. The rim land is Persian Gulf, Turkey or any area that borders the ocean. Many empires have attempted to take the heartlands, like Mongols, Alexander, Hitler, Napoleon etc... Also who ever controls the Heartland has to cross through Afghanistan to control the Rimland.

The British knew this very well so they made Afghanistan a defensive point for rimland nations because anyone who can gain control of Afghanistan can invade the Rimland or the Heartland. This is why British made the perception that Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires.

If any major power such as Germans gain control of Russia, they can dominate the world, and if Russia gains control of Afghanistan, it will dominate the world. The British have to stop both of them.

Pakistan
If you look at from Pakistan's perceptive, once Afghanistan falls, Pakistan becomes very important, as we saw in the Soviet Afghan war. This is why Pakistan is so important to USA and UK... They have to make sure Pakistan exists as a nuclear power and stays strong.
They have to prevent India from being a threat to Pakistan because if a major power like India takes Pakistan, they can threaten the heartland itself. So now China and India are also possible threats to the heartland. China is preventing India by strengthening Pakistan.

Afghanistan own foreign affairs were under the control of British

Wakhan corridor was part of British India. British handed over this to Afghanistan to spreate its border from Russia

 

[Lord Botta]

I think Afghanistan being a graveyard of empires is a myth started by the British. Afghans have been beaten many times, by Pakistan, Brits in the second Anglo-Afghan war, Alexander the Great and the Mongols.

The issue with Afghanistan is that it is right at the border between the Heartlands and the Rimlands, from the Heartland Hypothesis. Which states that Who so ever controls the heartlands, controls the world Island, whosoever controls the world Island controls the World.

The world Island is Europe, Asia, Africa combined. These places control almost all the worlds population and resources. The Heartland is Russia, central asia, mongolia. The rim land is Persian Gulf, Turkey or any area that borders the ocean. Many empires have attempted to take the heartlands, like Mongols, Alexander, Hitler, Napoleon etc... Also who ever controls the Heartland has to cross through Afghanistan to control the Rimland.

The British knew this very well so they made Afghanistan a defensive point for rimland nations because anyone who can gain control of Afghanistan can invade the Rimland or the Heartland. This is why British made the perception that Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires.

If any major power such as Germans gain control of Russia, they can dominate the world, and if Russia gains control of Afghanistan, it will dominate the world. The British have to stop both of them.

Pakistan
If you look at from Pakistan's perceptive, once Afghanistan falls, Pakistan becomes very important, as we saw in the Soviet Afghan war. This is why Pakistan is so important to USA and UK... They have to make sure Pakistan exists as a nuclear power and stays strong.
They have to prevent India from being a threat to Pakistan because if a major power like India takes Pakistan, they can threaten the heartland itself. So now China and India are also possible threats to the heartland. China is preventing India by strengthening Pakistan.

Someone made the right remark about it. Afghanis claim that Afghanistan has never been occupied by anyone. Right but even the Afghanis have never occupied it. The modern day Afghanistan was found by Ahmad Shah Abdali and he was the last ruler of the state that he found. For the rest of its history till now , it has been at war with itself and others and has not found its identity till now

 

[PIND-WALA]

Someone made the right remark about it. Afghanis claim that Afghanistan has never been occupied by anyone. Right but even the Afghanis have never occupied it. The modern day Afghanistan was found by Ahmad Shah Abdali and he was the last ruler of the state that he found. For the rest of its history till now , it has been at war with itself and others and has not found its identity till now

I will add that Afghanis were the ones who suffered the most all along. Americans are still pretty much intact for many years to come. USSR broke up due to many reasons, Afghanistan being one. Biggest losers were Afghanis.

 

[khalilqureshi]

I think Afghanistan being a graveyard of empires is a myth started by the British. Afghans have been beaten many times, by Pakistan, Brits in the second Anglo-Afghan war, Alexander the Great and the Mongols.

The issue with Afghanistan is that it is right at the border between the Heartlands and the Rimlands, from the Heartland Hypothesis. Which states that Who so ever controls the heartlands, controls the world Island, whosoever controls the world Island controls the World.

The world Island is Europe, Asia, Africa combined. These places control almost all the worlds population and resources. The Heartland is Russia, central asia, mongolia. The rim land is Persian Gulf, Turkey or any area that borders the ocean. Many empires have attempted to take the heartlands, like Mongols, Alexander, Hitler, Napoleon etc... Also who ever controls the Heartland has to cross through Afghanistan to control the Rimland.

The British knew this very well so they made Afghanistan a defensive point for rimland nations because anyone who can gain control of Afghanistan can invade the Rimland or the Heartland. This is why British made the perception that Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires.

If any major power such as Germans gain control of Russia, they can dominate the world, and if Russia gains control of Afghanistan, it will dominate the world. The British have to stop both of them.

Pakistan
If you look at from Pakistan's perceptive, once Afghanistan falls, Pakistan becomes very important, as we saw in the Soviet Afghan war. This is why Pakistan is so important to USA and UK... They have to make sure Pakistan exists as a nuclear power and stays strong.
They have to prevent India from being a threat to Pakistan because if a major power like India takes Pakistan, they can threaten the heartland itself. So now China and India are also possible threats to the heartland. China is preventing India by strengthening Pakistan.

That's good analysis but probably out of context. Main theme of my thread was the change of course of history as a consequence of return of USA from Afghanistan. But if one look at the point raised by you, there is a difference between conquering and staying to make people slave. Afghanistan was conquered by many nations including UK, USSR and USA but barring the last three they never intended to stayed. Case of UK, USSR and USA is different. They came to stay to get control over the world and they failed to the extent that not only they have to leave but they lost their status of Super Power. USA is on verge of Financial meltdown.. Its foreign debt rose to 9 Trillion and internal over 20 Trillion. It is receding back to where it started from. It will take time but is difficult for USA to stop this slide.

 

[disgusted]

USA invasion of Afghanistan. Another war that changed the course of History.

There are many battles fought which changed the course of History, one of such battle which is being fought for the last 17+ years is coming to an end and USA is going to leave as a loser and going to lose its position as a super power. USA after the breakup of then USSR claimed that USSR defeat in Afghanistan has changed the course of History and USA is the only Super Power. Many observer were of the view that this is the end of history and Now no one will be able to challenge the USA dominance in world affairs. The same observers saw the rise of China from the very year, USSR broke up and now Russia is emerging as another Super Power. USA helplessness in Crimea, Syria and now defeat in Afghanistan has proved that nothing is permanent in this Universe. The Power that claimed to be only super Power for all time to come is rapidly turning into a second rate power like UK and France.

World is going too see another Super Power going to the drain of History and emergence of new Super Power soon.

USA war on terror is going to finish against USA as the biggest embarrassment in the known history as the USA is known as the biggest armed force in the History of world equipped with the most modern weapons has lost war against an army equipped with the weapons of prehistoric age. USA attacked Afghanistan with all his NATO and non-NATO allies. Now after 17 years all its NATO and non-NATO allies have left it to fight this unwinnable war and feeling their-self helpless they have requested Pakistan to bring Taliban on talks table. Another biggest embarrassment is that they are ready to sign agreement with Taliban, who they declared are enemies of humanity and terrorists. A biggest Super Power has lost a war against TERRORISTS.

Those Taliban who were the most notorious terrorist in the eyes of USA, are now only agreed to talk on their own terms and their terms are absolutely eye openers for entire world. Their demands are 1, USA accept that their invasion of Afghanistan was wrong, 2, USA should not attack Pakistan while leaving Afghanistan, 3, USA should release Dr. Afia, 4, USA term of leaving Afghanistan in 18 months is not acceptable and they should leave at once. 5, Puppet government is not the part of talk as Taliban don't accept them as a party.

Not surprising USA agreed to talk with TERRORISTS on their terms. Definitely it is based on some give and take. But one thing is inevitable. USA has been defeated and USA Afghanistan invasion is another one of the biggest war that changed the course of History.

The US has won many many wars on the screens of Hollywood. Veterans of the Vietnam war are still projected as the ultimate top agents , fighters etc etc, History is always written and passed onto future generations by the victors, suitably editing the ugly parts. The present generation around the world is more interested in the electronic media and Afghan war will be able to provide to entertainment for many years. The big question is whether after having accomplishing their mission in Afghanistan and leaving in full glory will any superpower change its attitude towards the rest of the world? Probably the answer is a BIG NO. Just follow what is happening in Venezuela. The biggest lesson is that men never learn anything by their mistakes and continue to hope to get a different result for the same mistake again and again.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Most invasions are mostly temporary in nature but Afghanistan has changed its spheres of influences many times over the last 100 years from the British to the Soviets to the Americans.

The reason why Afghanistan is so important is because of geopolitics and not resources.

There are 3 ways for an invasion between the Rimlands and the Heartlands.
1. Via Crimea (This is a big weak point of the Heartlands and why an important area to control)
2. Via Eastern Europe (This is a suicide mission for both sides see WW1 & WW2)
3. Via Afghanistan (Whoever controls this, controls the door to the Rimlands and the Arabian sea)

That's good analysis but probably out of context. Main theme of my thread was the change of course of history as a consequence of return of USA from Afghanistan. But if one look at the point raised by you, there is a difference between conquering and staying to make people slave. Afghanistan was conquered by many nations including UK, USSR and USA but barring the last three they never intended to stayed. Case of UK, USSR and USA is different. They came to stay to get control over the world and they failed to the extent that not only they have to leave but they lost their status of Super Power. USA is on verge of Financial meltdown.. Its foreign debt rose to 9 Trillion and internal over 20 Trillion. It is receding back to where it started from. It will take time but is difficult for USA to stop this slide.

 

[Vitamin_C]

The heartlands by definition are landlocked and defended from the rimlands by geographical barriers such as deserts mountains, arctic. They are connected by rail and road, are very rich in resources such as iron and Oil. If the Heartlands gain access to the sea they can dominate the world.

This is why Britain prevented Russians from going further south. If you read the book called the Great Game, you will see that Russia was never a threat to British India but rather they wanted to gain access to the sea which the French and British prevented both at Constantinople and in Afghanistan/Baluchistan. The soviets again eyed the Arabian Sea in 1980s.

Afghanistan own foreign affairs were under the control of British

Wakhan corridor was part of British India. British handed over this to Afghanistan to spreate its border from Russia

 

[PIND-WALA]

The US has won many many wars on the screens of Hollywood. Veterans of the Vietnam war are still projected as the ultimate top agents , fighters etc etc, History is always written and passed onto future generations by the victors, suitably editing the ugly parts. The present generation around the world is more interested in the electronic media and Afghan war will be able to provide to entertainment for many years. The big question is whether after having accomplishing their mission in Afghanistan and leaving in full glory will any superpower change its attitude towards the rest of the world? Probably the answer is a BIG NO. Just follow what is happening in Venezuela. The biggest lesson is that men never learn anything by their mistakes and continue to hope to get a different result for the same mistake again and again.

I think another angle to look at is the objectives . Why Afghanistan was invaded so many times and whether the objective was met. British in my opinion did achieve the objectives and Russia and USA probably could not achieve objectives. But on the otherhand Afghanistans objectives have been to go gorrilla warfare since they could not not hold out the enemy at the border. Many nations basically accept their conquerers and adapt their ways . Suncontinent is biggest example , afghans did not .

 

[asifA1]

Actually the main point for Americans & coalition now is that in the eyes of media.
They cannot sustain heavy losses to militia Taliban mobilization when the US has state of weapons technology.
Once these main stream helicopters, tanks & any armed vehicles have been blasted by foot soldiers as the might of US is the exactly same fate for as it happened to Soviet Union. The Americans have another set back, all their soldiers returning from war battle fields from Middle East & Afghanistan are commiting suicides on packs on a ratio of 1000 soldiers is near 10 Americans take their own lives maybe higher rate. Than they are unable to find new recruits to fight a lost cause in the media already.
Several factors aren't going their way & when Russia is getting stronger in transparency in dealing with ISIS & rest of world. There are bigger problems in Koreas to India Pakistan flare up to Ukraine & Russia Crimea, Venezuala etc.
It would be wise to give up for USA than to fail horrifically in any of the previous scenerios one by one, and leave on medium level note.

 

[khalilqureshi]

I will add that Afghanis were the ones who suffered the most all along. Americans are still pretty much intact for many years to come. USSR broke up due to many reasons, Afghanistan being one. Biggest losers were Afghanis.

Afghans were the biggest loser. What does that mean? What if any country attack to another country such as USA , then people of that country should keep quite thinking that fighting that big power means an ultimate loss. Fighting those enemies and forcing them to run away shows their courage, dignity and steadfastness. Proud nations build their-self after such calamities. We saw the emergence of Japan and Germany after WW2, although they were losers then why can't a proud and victorious nation rebuild their self. They only need time and definitely no other nation would dare to attack them again at least for next 100 years. That means they have got that time. So far USA is concerned, it is on down slide. USA generates 3.5 Trillion Dollars (app) and spend 4.5 Trillion that leave a big hole in its economy. They are indebted to the tune of $9 Trillion foreign lenders and $22 trillion internal lenders. Every 2 or 3 years they have to increase their borrowing limit to save their self. This year expected deficit would be $1.2 trillion and that means they will have to go to congress to increase that limit again. They have faced humiliation in Syria, Crimea and now Afghanistan. They are on down slide , although their slide is slow.

 

[khalilqureshi]

Actually the main point for Americans & coalition now is that in the eyes of media.
They cannot sustain heavy losses to militia Taliban mobilization when the US has state of weapons technology.
Once these main stream helicopters, tanks & any armed vehicles have been blasted by foot soldiers as the might of US is the exactly same fate for as it happened to Soviet Union. The Americans have another set back, all their soldiers returning from war battle fields from Middle East & Afghanistan are commiting suicides on packs on a ratio of 1000 soldiers is near 10 Americans take their own lives maybe higher rate. Than they are unable to find new recruits to fight a lost cause in the media already.
Several factors aren't going their way & when Russia is getting stronger in transparency in dealing with ISIS & rest of world. There are bigger problems in Koreas to India Pakistan flare up to Ukraine & Russia Crimea, Venezuala etc.
It would be wise to give up for USA than to fail horrifically in any of the previous scenerios one by one, and leave on medium level note.

This information I have got from wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_veteran_suicide

Annual number of suicides per 100,000 population. 2000-2010.[10][11]Never served
in militaryVeterans and
active serviceWomen5.228.7Men20.932.1

 

[asifA1]

This information I have got from wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_veteran_suicide

Annual number of suicides

I am just putting out facts from wiki page itself :-

In 2012 alone, an estimated 6,500 former military personnel died by suicide.
&
1999 to 2010, which showed that roughly 22 veterans were dying by suicide per day.

This is exactly after the they served their war time & living in civilian life.