The curse of secularism

Alsadeeqalameen

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Secular means that religion has no say in the running of a state and should not have any say in the society. It permits and encourages vulgarity, immorality, nudity, open air sex like animals, greed, illegal wars and evilness in the world. Shitan is the father od secularism and those who believe in are kafirs and shitan ki aulad (children of shitan) and they are polluting and defaming Islam in Pakistan.

In the secular West, women are treated like a commercial property, money making machine, good time girls and whores ( randis, strop tease dancers, lesbians and they hate wearing clothes. India has become a photocopy of the Western vulgar society, and now in Pakistan, the middle, elite and wealthy classes are polluting our country with western filth and dirt.

The advent of liberaland democracy and secularisation has done nothing but to help the spread of lewdness, immorality, immorality, authoritarianism, nationalism, corporatism and the re-emergence of decadent American imperialism and colonisation. It is the western denial of religious values and their notion that only alternative would be demise of Islam is liberal democracy under the umbrella of secularism is the major cause of western civilization rapid decline but the Muslims will fight this perfidy head on and will always reject and kick out any other foreign ideology that defies Islam as we are witnessing in Iraq and Afghanistan.
 

Yankee09

Citizen
Dude get a life.. it waas because of sechular societies that people started asking question free of fear from states who were neck deap in interfearing with people's lives. This internet you r using to bash sechularism was also given to you from sechular societies, the car u proudly drive also given by who??? name one thing which was given to you by religion owned societies??? Sechularism doesnt mean permitting people to have open sex, if it was the case then india every been humping like rabbits so please keep this sick prediction or analysis to yourself.
Religious states has given what to people??? When Europe was a religion based society what is that era called??? "Dark Ages" ok...
Religion has a say and should have a say but in people's personal lives, morality has nothing to do with sechularism, here in USA if you are engaged in public indecency you are cuffed and draged in a police car, why? because its the moral of society which doesnt allow it.
What about us?
When Babar (origin rat in Mongolian language) wanted to defeat Rajputs he said he is going to do Jihad against those Rajputs so that he can use muslims against Hindus, what about AurangZeb Alamgiir? He killed thousands of hindus in the name of religion plus his brothers getting killed and his father rotting in prison was just something as a bonus.
We talk about Khilafat like it was so nice and heavenly... Was not Omar(RA) shaheed? Didnt Abu Bakr(RA)'s son pulled Usman(RA) beared when he(RA) said "I WISH ABU BAKR(RA) WAS ALIVE TODAY), didnt Hazrat Aisha(RA) and Hazrat Ali(RA) went in a war killing 50000 people in middle? Didnt Kaharjiites fought against Hazrat Ali(RA) in name of religion too? Didnt Ameer Muawia went in war against Hazrat Ali (RA) in the end getting him sahaheed by Kaharjites???
in my era didnt Zia-ul-haq used religion .i.e. "if you belive I am a muslim" rrefrendum?

Get a life man rreligion has given us faith but religious states has given humanity "nothing" "nada" "capiche"
p.s. watch this this is what can be happened in Islamic Republic
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6234
 

Saladin A

Minister (2k+ posts)
It was, in fact, Islam that civilized the whole world when the European were living in Dark Ages" as you rightly said, eating raw meat because they did not know how to cook, living in caves and speaking with sign languages because they did know how to use words.

Islam was never spread by sword as you have you ignorantly suggested but instead forbids violence and killing of an innocent human being as of killing the whole humanity. USA killed over two million innocent people in North Vietnam and over 1.5 million Muslims in two Iraq wars and Afghanistan and still killing them. Zionist Israel has killed over one million Muslims in the Palestine and expelled 1.5 million from their homeland and treats Palestinians as sub-humans. In India, thousands of innocent Muslim in Kashmir and Gujarat have been killed by fascist fanatic Hindus wearing safrron clothes but still, the enemies of Islam blame Muslims for violence and terrorism. Hundreds of thousands of entire Muslims families have been wiped out by the American, British, Indian and European armed forces in many parts of the world but the ignorant and arrogant critics of Islam blame Muslims for violrence in the world. Even today, Muslims are being killed in China.

Hitler and fascists killed over fifty million people in the 11WWR; Christians killed over 20 million Red Indians in the North and South American trying to colonize the continent; British Empire killed over 50 millions colonizing and looting the world and massacred Africans, Indians in the Indian sub-continent, Middle East, Australia aborigines, New-Zealand Maoris, Chinese and non-white peoples of the world. French, Dutch, Italians killed millions of people in their colonies and in the during the crusades, the European Christians killed millions of Muslims in the Middle East. In fact, if you study history taking off your blind folds, you will take note that the Europeans Christians were the most barbaric and ruthless invaders, colonizers and looters the history has ever known. Stalin the Communist killed over twenty million people trying to spread communism in the Soviet Union and Maose-tung masscred over thirty million to crush capitalism and other religious minoriteis in China.

Islam ruled the world for over 1200 hundred years and never used state power or military force to convert non-Muslims to Islam because it only permits voluntary conversion and forbids forceful conversion. Muslim ruled India for over thousands years and never forced Islam on the majority Hindus and if you would look at the statistics, 85% Indians are still Hindus and Muslims always remained a minority in India despite ruled by the Mughals and other Muslim dynasties.

Even many Muslims distort Islam by giving false and uncorroborated few irrational and irrelevant examples because of their little knowledge and ignorance of 'True Islam' that is of peace, love, harmony, compassion, tolerance and showing magnanimity to its adversary in hard times. In an Islamic society, the path of Islam is based on the middle path (ummatum wassatun): the Muslim outwardly applies reason, justice, compassion, and all other virtues while inwardly he or she is in abandonment and submission, trusting that the outcome to any situation will be the appropriate one. Therefore, whosoever is in true and constant submission, in utmost awareness both outwardly and inwardly is on the path of pursuing the ultimate knowledge and fulfilling their purpose. The best way to analyze the concept of Islam is to analyze what the glorious Quran speaks of Allah and not by examining what its adherents do or believe because many of the followers themselves do not know what their religious scriptures state about Almighty God. The Glorious Quran says in Surah Al Imran, Ch. No. 3, V. No. 64: Say: "O people of the Book! Come to common terms as between us and you: Which is the first term? That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not from among ourselves Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back say: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's will)."

The great Islamic scholars and scientists were the products of Islamic madrassas and got their inspirations from the Quran but few in the West talk about this fact. They civilized the whole world when especially the peoples of Europe were living in dark ages and lived in caves. Muslims scientists led the world in anatomy, physiology, zoology, botany, astronomy, mineralogy, physics and chemistry. The Kitab an-Nabat, Encyclopaedia Botanica of ad-Dinwari (d.895) the first in kind in six thick volumes is remarkably surpasses in erudition and extensiveness. Medicine also made extraordinary progress under the Muslims in the branches of anatomy, pharmacology, physiology, organization of hospitals and trading of doctors who were to pass examinations before allowed to practice.

The works of Razi (Rhazes), Ibn-Sina (Avicenna), Abu'l-Qasim (Abucasis) and many others remained until recently as the basis of all medical study even in the West. We Muslims know the fact that circulation of blood was also known to them, thanks to the writings of Ib- an- Nafis but how ridiculous the European credit it to William Harvey who only learnt it from the Arabs writings. Under the influence of great Muslim scientists like Khalid ibn Yazid, Jafa as sadiq and Jabir ibn Hayyan, ancient al-chemy was transformed into an exact science based on facts and capable of demonstration. Jabir also knew chemical operations of calcinations and reduction; it is he who developed also the methods of evaporation, sublimation, crystallization, etc. In mathematics, Muslims are well renowned for algebra, zero and cipher and the names of al-Khwarizmi, al-Biruni and others remain as famous as those of Euclid. Though, the Greeks knew trigonometry but credit goes to the Muslims for its discovery and advancement an in logarithm. Muslims continued with their work in the advancing science until the Mongol barbarians invasion of Baghdad in one day burnt and destroyed all libraries housing hundreds of thousands of books of knowledge gained and constructed over the centuries by the Muslim scholars and scientists. Their wholesale and loathsome massacre did not even spare the leaned and the Muslims suffered the greatest intellectual calamity and disaster in its Islamic history more barbaric than the Europeans crusaders invasions on Islam.

Are you living in a dark age, yankee 09? I would like to advise you to learn to write correct English or else write in a sign langugae.
 

Yankee09

Citizen
Saladin A said:
It was, in fact, Islam that civilized the whole world when the European were living in Dark Ages" as you rightly said, eating raw meat because they did not know how to cook, living in caves and speaking with sign languages because they did know how to use words.

Islam was never spread by sword as you have you ignorantly suggested but instead forbids violence and killing of an innocent human being as of killing the whole humanity. USA killed over two million innocent people in North Vietnam and over 1.5 million Muslims in two Iraq wars and Afghanistan and still killing them. Zionist Israel has killed over one million Muslims in the Palestine and expelled 1.5 million from their homeland and treats Palestinians as sub-humans. In India, thousands of innocent Muslim in Kashmir and Gujarat have been killed by fascist fanatic Hindus wearing safrron clothes but still, the enemies of Islam blame Muslims for violence and terrorism. Hundreds of thousands of entire Muslims families have been wiped out by the American, British, Indian and European armed forces in many parts of the world but the ignorant and arrogant critics of Islam blame Muslims for violrence in the world. Even today, Muslims are being killed in China.

Hitler and fascists killed over fifty million people in the 11WWR; Christians killed over 20 million Red Indians in the North and South American trying to colonize the continent; British Empire killed over 50 millions colonizing and looting the world and massacred Africans, Indians in the Indian sub-continent, Middle East, Australia aborigines, New-Zealand Maoris, Chinese and non-white peoples of the world. French, Dutch, Italians killed millions of people in their colonies and in the during the crusades, the European Christians killed millions of Muslims in the Middle East. In fact, if you study history taking off your blind folds, you will take note that the Europeans Christians were the most barbaric and ruthless invaders, colonizers and looters the history has ever known. Stalin the Communist killed over twenty million people trying to spread communism in the Soviet Union and Maose-tung masscred over thirty million to crush capitalism and other religious minoriteis in China.

Islam ruled the world for over 1200 hundred years and never used state power or military force to convert non-Muslims to Islam because it only permits voluntary conversion and forbids forceful conversion. Muslim ruled India for over thousands years and never forced Islam on the majority Hindus and if you would look at the statistics, 85% Indians are still Hindus and Muslims always remained a minority in India despite ruled by the Mughals and other Muslim dynasties.

Even many Muslims distort Islam by giving false and uncorroborated few irrational and irrelevant examples because of their little knowledge and ignorance of 'True Islam' that is of peace, love, harmony, compassion, tolerance and showing magnanimity to its adversary in hard times. In an Islamic society, the path of Islam is based on the middle path (ummatum wassatun): the Muslim outwardly applies reason, justice, compassion, and all other virtues while inwardly he or she is in abandonment and submission, trusting that the outcome to any situation will be the appropriate one. Therefore, whosoever is in true and constant submission, in utmost awareness both outwardly and inwardly is on the path of pursuing the ultimate knowledge and fulfilling their purpose. The best way to analyze the concept of Islam is to analyze what the glorious Quran speaks of Allah and not by examining what its adherents do or believe because many of the followers themselves do not know what their religious scriptures state about Almighty God. The Glorious Quran says in Surah Al Imran, Ch. No. 3, V. No. 64: Say: "O people of the Book! Come to common terms as between us and you: Which is the first term? That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not from among ourselves Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back say: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's will)."

The great Islamic scholars and scientists were the products of Islamic madrassas and got their inspirations from the Quran but few in the West talk about this fact. They civilized the whole world when especially the peoples of Europe were living in dark ages and lived in caves. Muslims scientists led the world in anatomy, physiology, zoology, botany, astronomy, mineralogy, physics and chemistry. The Kitab an-Nabat, Encyclopaedia Botanica of ad-Dinwari (d.895) the first in kind in six thick volumes is remarkably surpasses in erudition and extensiveness. Medicine also made extraordinary progress under the Muslims in the branches of anatomy, pharmacology, physiology, organization of hospitals and trading of doctors who were to pass examinations before allowed to practice.

The works of Razi (Rhazes), Ibn-Sina (Avicenna), Abu'l-Qasim (Abucasis) and many others remained until recently as the basis of all medical study even in the West. We Muslims know the fact that circulation of blood was also known to them, thanks to the writings of Ib- an- Nafis but how ridiculous the European credit it to William Harvey who only learnt it from the Arabs writings. Under the influence of great Muslim scientists like Khalid ibn Yazid, Jafa as sadiq and Jabir ibn Hayyan, ancient al-chemy was transformed into an exact science based on facts and capable of demonstration. Jabir also knew chemical operations of calcinations and reduction; it is he who developed also the methods of evaporation, sublimation, crystallization, etc. In mathematics, Muslims are well renowned for algebra, zero and cipher and the names of al-Khwarizmi, al-Biruni and others remain as famous as those of Euclid. Though, the Greeks knew trigonometry but credit goes to the Muslims for its discovery and advancement an in logarithm. Muslims continued with their work in the advancing science until the Mongol barbarians invasion of Baghdad in one day burnt and destroyed all libraries housing hundreds of thousands of books of knowledge gained and constructed over the centuries by the Muslim scholars and scientists. Their wholesale and loathsome massacre did not even spare the leaned and the Muslims suffered the greatest intellectual calamity and disaster in its Islamic history more barbaric than the Europeans crusaders invasions on Islam.

Are you living in a dark age, yankee 09? I would like to advise you to learn to write correct English or else write in a sign langugae.
1st of all well done my friend you are a clear case of hypocrisy and total ignorance, you are so straight bashing secularism which is a product of West but you are so in love with their language that you find my writing incorrect, you negate your self right there. Fact of the matter is I dont have time to waste on my grammar or spellings (typing in ms word, as I dont have inferiority complex like you have) while I am typing. You asked if I am living in dark ages. My friend whole Islamic nation is a clear example of dark ages, we kill our daughters in the name of respect, we butcher our own muslim brothers in front of cameras in the name of Islam and etc etc etc.
Yes Muslims have a history in regards of science and mathematics but I think you are forgetting something go do some research it all happened before Imam Ghazali's fatwa, who declared that there should be no research done and all science and mathematics went down the hill. For your kind information 1st book which was made from machine was made in Germany, it took 200 years for a Muslim country to bring it because our so called Islamic state was afraid that people will start making Holly Quran in it, so stop blaming only crusaders (For your informatioin crusaders came in the name of religion too, you are so off the topic, get a life, I was not bashing Islam but I was talking about religiious states, I can only feel sorry for you ignorance) I blame crusaders for bringing violence in Islam because Salahu din Ayubi emphasized in Jihad for bringing muslims together.
You said Islamic states never forced minorities, you are dead wrong, didn't Alamgir killed thousands of hindus and sikhs? Didnt Temur made towers of heads in Delhi? Although I completely disagree with you that muslims ruled India, because it was not a muslim state but a Mogul state.
I the end tell me something, how many inventions or discoveries have our Islamic states did if compared to western secular states in last 2 or 3 centuries??? Do not brag about thousand year old history tell me, what about now, now, now???
 

hans

Banned
What intrest me most if any one can answer, all those Islamic scientist practiced under which Islamic Doctrine, were they under Talabanic style of leadership or some other softer tone of Islam.

Consider this, How did we loss India as a whole under the Mughal rule?

Back track and you will find rigid Islamic rules were the cause, namemy introduced under Al-Sultan al-Azam wal Khaqan al-Mukarram Abul Muzaffar Muhiuddin Muhammad Aurangzeb Bahadur Alamgir I, Padshah Ghazi. This one Stupid narrow minded leader was the death brick for what we now label Last Islamic Kingdom that ruled India as a whole. Technology, Science or Secularism.. they all breed and flourish under only one institution. Freedom of thoughts, and equal rights for all, as for Wester culture treating women as commodity? who are those who parade there own women naked or Gang bang them for what ever the cause or reason be. Dont tell me Women in Pakistan are safe, I bet my sweet Rs 50/- , let any women walk 500 yards down any deserted street there be some pervert with an X-ray vision.

As a vivid reader of history, i would advise every Pakistani to read unbiased history. Or better read books not written under Sind Board of Education. They all painted islamic history in colours that define a pure happy institution, where there is justice for all. My Dear every one of you are just dreaming. its time you read some established authors and there fine books. If you knew your history, you would never compare your self with the western Institutions or there ways of governance. Or may be some Great Gazi or Saladin is coming for our rescue with Billion of $$$?

Least I forget, if my English or my spelling is not to mark who cares... we stand pivoted under few Billion $$$ IMF loan. that is some thing that needs more attention. Or is there some Gazi or Saladin coming to our rescue?
 

Saladin A

Minister (2k+ posts)
Talibans is a terror group and their agenda is not Islam but terrorism, violence, intimidation, killing of the innocent human beings, suicide bombing and all of this is haram in Islam. They are not Muslims but woh Islam key dushman hain aur woh Islam key baghi hain aur CIA, MI5, RAw, Mossad aur NATO key agents hain aur Pakistan ko tabah kerne key liay America, Hindustan aur Israel sey mali aur hatharoun ki madad latain hain. Taliban receive fianancial and military aid from USA, India, Israel and every other Pakistan's enemy inside and outside the country.
 

Saladin A

Minister (2k+ posts)
It would be wrong to play flute to a cow as she would not understand a classical note; and if you load a donkey with wrong history books that does not make it a scholar.

Temur Lang (Tamerlane) was a barbarian Mongol like his earlier ancestors and was only interested in expanding his empire, looting, pillaging and killing innocent human beings in his conquests. Mug Hals was never interested in Islam and in fact defied Islam and Akbar even created his own religion in defiance of Islam. Mughals were interested in consolidating their empire and dynastic rule and nothing else and indulged in frivolous extravagant, ostentatious and life style that is strictly prohibited in Islam.

In fact, saints like Data Ganj Busksh, Khawaja Moinudin Chisti, Khawaja Nizamudin Auliya, Baba Farid Gang, Bhule Shah and many other noble saints spread the message of Islam in India with peace and love, and hundreds of millions of the locals accepted Islam with open arms and hearts.

I am an ordinary writer but when I write in English or Urdu, I try my best to wite correctly. I apologize if offended you.
 

Yankee09

Citizen
Saladin A said:
It would be wrong to play flute to a cow as she would not understand a classical note; and if you load a donkey with wrong history books that does not make it a scholar.

Temur Lang (Tamerlane) was a barbarian Mongol like his earlier ancestors and was only interested in expanding his empire, looting, pillaging and killing innocent human beings in his conquests. Mug Hals was never interested in Islam and in fact defied Islam and Akbar even created his own religion in defiance of Islam. Mughals were interested in consolidating their empire and dynastic rule and nothing else and indulged in frivolous extravagant, ostentatious and life style that is strictly prohibited in Islam.

In fact, saints like Data Ganj Busksh, Khawaja Moinudin Chisti, Khawaja Nizamudin Auliya, Baba Farid Gang, Bhule Shah and many other noble saints spread the message of Islam in India with peace and love, and hundreds of millions of the locals accepted Islam with open arms and hearts.

I am an ordinary writer but when I write in English or Urdu, I try my best to wite correctly. I apologize if offended you.

"It would be wrong to play flute to a cow as she would not understand a classical note; and if you load a donkey with wrong history books that does not make it a scholar." thats what I did through my last post! I am not saying that Islam was spread through wars and battles only, but it is true that people like Aurangzeb Alamgir existed and people like Bullhe Shah existed as well, so my problem is that we as muslims always take good things from history and bad things we disown it, its our munafiqat. "AND BY GOD I HATE MUNAFIQS MORE THAN I HATE MUSHRIKEEN"
 

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