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Tashkund Agreement After war of 1965
- Thread starter Kahlown
- Start date
Bhuto was a big drama and a very selfish person.
Woh nehayat khodpasand insan thai.
Aisey logon ke wajah se yeh mulk totha, aur es halat tuk phonch gaya...
Bhuto ke nationalization policy ne mulk ka rukh tabahi ke taraf modr diya....
Woh bahut chalaak insan thai.. siyasi makar os mein bhara howa tha...
Woh nehayat khodpasand insan thai.
Aisey logon ke wajah se yeh mulk totha, aur es halat tuk phonch gaya...
Bhuto ke nationalization policy ne mulk ka rukh tabahi ke taraf modr diya....
Woh bahut chalaak insan thai.. siyasi makar os mein bhara howa tha...
the question here rises that these 4 words were bindings on both countries or for Pakistan only? after that pact have neither country used arms against each other or not. if yes, then India could have taken this matter to UNO. why they failed to use it against Pakistan so far in-spite of having such value able proof? to my mind it was binding to both countries and surely both have violated it many times.so it is not such a secret which could be used to fool the nation.
Clearly, your biasness is so freakin' obvious that you don't understand the depth of issues yet you talk as if you know everything.
Do you know how nationalization happened? Do you know what other countries in the world were upto at that time on nationalization? Do you also know what year this happened?
Go and find that information before you come and claim such.
Lastly, how dare you call Bhutto a selfish person - clearly, you have no sense of history. Bhutto sacrificed his life for Pakistan, so what kind of ungrateful person are you to talk like this.
Shame on you!
punjabimunda1
Banned
you are brain washed illitrate who knows nothing about political history of Pakistan,,,,Bhutto ne apni siasat ka agaaz Ayub ki cabinet mein shamil ho kar kia aur baad mein Convention muslim league ka general secretary bhi bana,,Bhutto ne jab PPP ki buniyad rakhi to roti kaprra aur makan ka khushkun naara dia,,1970 ke election mein Mujeeb ur Rehman ki Awami League majority se jeet gayi lekin Bhutto ki iqtedar ki hawas ne election results ko tasleem na kia,,bhutto ne kaha ke jo MNA assembly ajlaas ke liye Dhaka jaye ga main us ki taangain torr doon ga,,,,Bhutto ki nationalization ki policy ne Pakistan ki growth rate ko break laga di,,,tamam industries aur taleemi idaray qoum tahweel mein le liye gaye,,santi taraqi ruk gayi,,,awam ko sugar,atta,ghee aur cement ke liye lines mein laga dia gaya,,,1 kilo sugar ya atta ke liye poora din line mein lagna parrta tha,,factories mein paidawaar brai naam reh gayi kionke labour unions itni khudsar ho gayin thi ke aye roz harrtaal,,,,phir 1977 ke election mein jis tarah dhandli karai gayi us ka iqraar khud bhutto ne kia,,dhandli ke khalaf opposition ki movement per jis tara Bhutto ke orders per golian chalayin aur beshumar protesters maaray gaye aur jis tara army ne awam per goli chalane se inkar kia,,phir halaat itne kharab ho gaye ke army ko martial law lagana parra,,,,,,yeh baat zehan mein rakhni chahiye ke Bhutto ne Pakistan aur awam ke liye jaan nahin di,,yeh 2 taqatwar personalities ki jang thi jis mein Zia jeet gaya aur Bhutto haar gaya,,,isi tara Benazeer ne bhi awam ke liye jaan nahin di woh iqtedar ki khatir pakistan mein ayi aur election compaign mein extrimists ke hathoo mari gayi,,,hum Bhutto aur BB ko mazloom ke sakte hain shaheed nahin aur na hi unoo ne pakistan ki khatir jaan di,,bhutto sb to khud aik zalim insan thay,,,,Bhutto ki sirf 2 achievements thee,,,Atomic programme ki buniyad rakhna aur 1973 ka costitution,,aur Benazeer ka 1 hi karnama hai,,Pakistan mein corruption ka Master Zardari produce karna,,,baqi BB ne koi aisa kaam nahin kia jo tareef ke qabal ho,,,,:angry_smile::angry_smile::angry_smile:
punjabimunda1
Banned
Rauf Galasarrha ke tamam column aur TV talk show dekh lain,,woh obviously pro Gilani aur pro Zardari hai,,maaal mein barri kashash hoti hai,,aur Rauf Thathaa ne zardari aur Gilani se maal e haraam ka hisa baqadar jussa wasool kia hai aur ab Gilani ZARDARI aur Bhutto ki tareefain kar ke namak halaali kar raha hai,,,Pakistan Mir sadiqoon aur Mir Jaafroo se bhara parra hai aur bohat saray gaddar hamari jahil qoum ke hero bhi hain,,,
Of all the childish comments, can anybody tell me that what is actually wrong with this piece of writing. He has just quoted a source and provided us with a statement that was present in the treaty, nothing more, nothing less. Other than that, just a few lines upon his point of view described in a certain way. We are here to kill everybody, innit? We wouldn't ever try to read the book ourselves or have a discussion about anything.
Amazing that you call me illiterate when you can't even spell the word! It is also amazing the way you express your thoughts, so unstructured and mostly in roman urdu, yet another sign that your command and comprehension of English language is really unfounded.
Now, let us talk point - by - point and I will prove each and everything .. but you must be polite and fight the issues and not me ... otherwise I will just ignore you.
Altaf Lutfi
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Mr.Bhutto used Tashkent Accord against Ayub Khan to unseat him but so called surrender or compromise by Ayub Khan was not the only reason as Bhutto exploited it. He was liar by habit and took it as a smart tool in politics. It is interesting to note that Ayub Khan was architect of strong Pak-US friendship, however, US approach towards Ayub Khan was getting smoky after Tashkent Accord. Pakistan as a satellite to US looked drifting away. Ayub Khan had signed an agreement for arms supply with Soviet Union during the same visit and Soviet pressure on India was partly to facilitate Pakistan. Soviet goal was to snatch a time-tested ally from US. Diplomats as well as BBC reporter in Moscow at that time recorded US displeasure over the arms deal. Only time will tell if Bhutto was out against Ayub Khan to unseat him at the behest of Americans basically and his greed for power was secondary factor.
I must point out that there are contradictions in your above statement. Before I even comment further, let me test you with some very simple questions:
- What did Ayub Khan really achieve with the Tashkent declaration?
- Was Pakistan or India in a stronger position in 1965 war?
Altaf Lutfi
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Look into Files of news paper "The Hindu" from post Shimla Agreement era and you get it all. You can disagree with my posts but do not expect me wasting time in endless gimmicks. Any reasonable question will be entertained always but not to write books here.
punjabimunda1
Banned
Aap agar English language ya Litrature mein PHD bhi hain to bhi aap ko Bhutto ke andaaz e siasat aur khamion aur khubion ka ilm nahin ,kuch facts aise hain jo ignorant PPP followers dont want to recognize,,eg,,Bhutto apne siasi mukhalfeen ko bardashat nahin karta tha ,,2, ANP jo Bhutto ke daur mein NAP thi ki leadership pe gaddari ke muqadmaat chalaye gaye,,Bhutto ne apne beshumar siasi mukhalif qatal karwai jin mein Dr Nazeer,Khawaja Rafiq aur Nawab Mohammad Ahmed Khan shamil hain,,,,,,,Bhutto ko iqtedar ki is qadar ki hawas thi ke us ne 1977 ke election mein tareekhi dhandli karai (bhutto ne 50 seats per dhandli ka khud iqraar kia),,,i will raise just one question,,why do you think policy of nationalisation adopted by Bhutto was good for Pakistan economy ? ,,,,,,I think it does not matter how i express my views and thoughts,I am pretty sure that being a Pakistani you understand my roman urdu but you are trying to change the subject by criticizing my inability and inefficiency,,,,,,,The blind followers of Bhutto are ignorant and unaware of his selfishness and lust for rule,,,,,,I am sure you have personal and family intrests otherwise no reasonable Pakistani can favoure Bhutto or PPP (now zardari League),,,aap ne muje sokan ki tara taanay de kar apni jaan churra li,,
That is a gross generalization.but ofcourse what else can one expect from a noora follower? :) Let me remind you that you were the one calling me illiterate, when you couldn't even spell the word :)
Weren't NAP leaders wanted to align with India more than Pakistan during that time? Is this a fact of history that you want to distort????
Where is the proof and if he was involved in so many murders then why the biased courts had huge trouble to even prove one case against him? That too .. the serving judges of that time like Justice Nasim have admitted were totally biased and only there to eliminate Bhutto.
Good that you mention the 'dhandli' of 1977 - why wasn't this proven in courts? If this was so obvious as you say it then why not raised in courts???? That time judiciary was totally biased against Bhutto anyways .. by the way for your short memory let me remind you that recently the Asghar Khan petition verdict is clear .. Noora took money to rig elections of 1990 .. so if you are Noora supporter .. why don't you have some shame when you accuse a great leader like Bhutto but totally quiet over Nawaz sharif ...
Finally something of a substance .. I asked you a few questions which you haven't even answered, perhaps answer those and I will happily reply to this. Quoting below for your easy reference:
Do you know how nationalization happened? Do you know what other countries in the world were upto at that time on nationalization? Do you also know what year this happened?
Boy! .. you are really a nuthead aren't you... it matters greatly how you express yourself .. either you make your questions very clear for others to understand or speak gibberish .. the former way others can easily understand your point of view .. the latter is only expressing your own confusion in a manner that is not worth a comment. So, this is a very valid point. Also, as you can see (read above) you haven't answered my basic questions on the issue of nationalization ... this is because you are the one is so incoherent in comments and discussion. I don't expect you to understand this but atleast be objective and try? :)
This is so wrong and again proves my point that your mind is everywhere BUT on the topic at hand. Don't take it personally dude ... if you make your point of view clear ..its easier for others to understand that is all I am saying. I am not a blind follower to anyone, however, you are disrespecting a person who gave his life for Pakistan. This is not something I as a Pakistani can tolerate. Perhaps there are places (like your home) where you can talk this way and people may applaud you for your 'intellectual' capacity. However, in a public forum you are only exposing your shallowness of thought.
So, if you really serious to talk about this issue .. stop acting like a child and bring forward your points and answer my questions that I posed to you earlier.
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Thanks for exposing yourself :)
I asked to very relevant and simple questions as below:
- What did Ayub Khan really achieve with the Tashkent declaration?
- Was Pakistan or India in a stronger position in 1965 war?
If you don't have the answers that are central to this discussion just admit it, instead of giving a reply that just shows that you have ZERO knowledge on the issue at hand.
@AsifAmeer @UKPakistani [MENTION=36378]jeaybhutto[/MENTION] @Qalandri [MENTION=5561]Faheem[/MENTION]Naz [MENTION=33654]Mehrushka[/MENTION] please tell this bloke that above questions are VERY relevant to the topic. I guess he has a problem in comprehension ... I have tried numerous ways to explain but he just doesn't get it :)
Dear Bro, shame on all of us that we are still following the corrupt and selfish people.
Yes I did not claim that I am a scholar, you may be, so plz tell us about the benefits of Nationalization...
I look only at who benefits Pakistan and who caused damages to it, I don't care what was or is the world doing, I care only how Pakistan is doing?
My bro, think if the Tashqand treaty was signed, how would be Pakistan & India by now?
As it was a No War treaty, and how much we have spent on weapons, and how many lives we have sacrificed until now? what trade and development opportunity we have lots?
Who caused to damage that treaty?
Who used it for political gains?
(kiya yeh madari wala andey aur choozey ka topi drama nahi tha? abhi tuk os andey se chooza nahi nikla, jo Bhuto ne kaha tha keh woh nikal ker dekhayega? )
Then in 70s same kind of drama after the elections, Bhuto did not allowed the assembly session, and he did not respect the public opinion. He was the major cause for splitting the Pakistan. (think as a Pakistani only)
If he was a great politician and sincere, he should have resolved that issue.
(He only wanted power at any cost, for that he has planned long ego, by starting the Tashqand drama, othewise he was an unknown person, but he was smart and cunning)
He has not sacrificed for Pakistan, but for his own ego satisfaction.
He has destroyed Pakistan with Tashqand drama, then by Nationalization policy.
Pakistan was on the way to become a developed industrial state, (look at Korea who took & implemented Pakistani policy)
But Bhuto Nationalization policy was disaster for Pakistan, most business people took their wealth out of Pakistan.
I want all of us should think as a Pakistani, never let any one to damage Pakistan.
We must not become slaves of any personality or party, we should support those who are real honest, sincere and have the courage to stand for Pakistan in any situation.
Yes I did not claim that I am a scholar, you may be, so plz tell us about the benefits of Nationalization...
I look only at who benefits Pakistan and who caused damages to it, I don't care what was or is the world doing, I care only how Pakistan is doing?
My bro, think if the Tashqand treaty was signed, how would be Pakistan & India by now?
As it was a No War treaty, and how much we have spent on weapons, and how many lives we have sacrificed until now? what trade and development opportunity we have lots?
Who caused to damage that treaty?
Who used it for political gains?
(kiya yeh madari wala andey aur choozey ka topi drama nahi tha? abhi tuk os andey se chooza nahi nikla, jo Bhuto ne kaha tha keh woh nikal ker dekhayega? )
Then in 70s same kind of drama after the elections, Bhuto did not allowed the assembly session, and he did not respect the public opinion. He was the major cause for splitting the Pakistan. (think as a Pakistani only)
If he was a great politician and sincere, he should have resolved that issue.
(He only wanted power at any cost, for that he has planned long ego, by starting the Tashqand drama, othewise he was an unknown person, but he was smart and cunning)
He has not sacrificed for Pakistan, but for his own ego satisfaction.
He has destroyed Pakistan with Tashqand drama, then by Nationalization policy.
Pakistan was on the way to become a developed industrial state, (look at Korea who took & implemented Pakistani policy)
But Bhuto Nationalization policy was disaster for Pakistan, most business people took their wealth out of Pakistan.
I want all of us should think as a Pakistani, never let any one to damage Pakistan.
We must not become slaves of any personality or party, we should support those who are real honest, sincere and have the courage to stand for Pakistan in any situation.
Not sure about you but the only politician I am following / supporting is IK. Bhutto as a past leader was a very good leader compared to the morons we have got that followed after his death. So, don't ASSUME!
The intention of nationalization was to ensure that the monopoly of a few business families is broken. Ofcourse you may prefer few business men owning all the wealth of the country. By nationalizing industries govt. had the opportunity to put in place policies. Furthermore during that time the same industrial business oligarchs you are defending didn't give a damn about ordinary workers, labour unions etc. They neglected work conditions and failed to provide a healthy/safe work environment to these poor workers.
Secondly, all other parties before election of 1970's were of the same opinion. We can talk all day and night on this.
Thirdly, during that era there were other countries too who opted for nationalization. Ofcourse, if you belong to the business oligarch then I fully understand your pain.
I hope you really mean that because you condemning a person who sacrificed his life for the sake of Pakistan and gave Pakistan Islamic Bank and the Islamic Bomb. Walk the talk!
To put this blame on Bhutto is really immature - after all Dictator Ayub sacked Bhutto and jailed him after Tashkent declaration. So, why are you insinuating that it was Bhutto's fault? He basically was against abject surrender - in 1965 war we were in a great position BUT Ayub basically gave that away WITHOUT any headway on Kashmir. According to Bhutto, this was a single great opportunity to make progress on Kashmir. Everything after that has failed. Please don't ignore that .. just because you don't like Bhutto. Be objective and understand everything before you comment.
now you are bringing a new topic - happy to talk about this too .. I have read over 10 books in this and can talk at length. However, suffice to say that the seeds of this breakup were sown a long time ago . when we IMPOSED URDU on bengalis and please don't forget the atrocities that our army committed in east Pakistan . this was all under a dictator. So, as a Pakistani please read more .. and stop believing in cooked up stories.
this is the most unfair comment from you .. clearly you are full of bias against Bhutto and only using the garb of a PAKISTANI patriot to spit out venom. Shame on you. Tell me any other leader who dared to start a nuclear bomb program for his country and paid the price with his life ??? Come on tell me ..
This has been addressed .. but seriously I don't see much point in talking to a blind bhutto hater like you .. are you also telling me that the 90000 soldiers he brought back from India .. the land he got back from India was also nothing for you? Most importantly.. he raised the moral of our battered nation and army after the war .. was also nothing?
I hope you practice what you preach here .. because based on what you have written it is blatantly clear that you are blind to all of achievements of Bhutto. Shame on you. I guess we deserve 'leaders' like zardari, mushy, nawaz and altaf ..
Dear Bro, first is that your 'takiya kalaam' "Shame on you" ? :)
Have you lived in that era of Bhuto?
What I said are my personal (and of most Pakistanis) feelings since that time.
most of the public suffered by the hands of Bhuto, you may know if u lived at that period.
When Bhuto 1st took over, inflation jumped high ( e.g. sugar: from Rs. 2.25/kg to 3.50/kg... 5.00/kg) even the basic sugar, wheat, ghee and many basic things disappeared.. people were got arrested if they carry with them more than few Kgs of sugar.
many factories got closed because of Nat.... so lot of people lost jobs..
He gave a lollipop of roti, kapra aur makaan to the public, which no one received... (same as he never told about Tashqand)
If u had been to any of his jalsa u had seen, how he was playing with public emotions, to whom he delivered nothing..
He was a wise person, but at the same time he was a fascist, selfish and cunning.
I appreciate his decision of atom bomb, but all that will not happened if we would have "No war, No use of arms" treaty with India. (if someone 1st destroy your home, then give u a good gun to defend it afterward, will u for give him?)
He sowed the seed of destruction with Tashqand issue.
As I told b4 that he put breaks to Pakistan development.
I don't have any personal issues with him. But I do angry at any one who harms Pakistan.
Ayub Khan was an army dictator but people were far more happy than Bhuto era, the governance was better, and his economic policy was far better. He put Pakistan on industrial path. Law & order situation was better.
Food and drug inspection were done on regular basis.
Bhuto was a civilian dictator, who brought miseries in people lives, he was beating opposition leaders, throwing them out of Parliament.
The real facts are not mentioned in most of the books, because the writers have their own concerns and thoughts.
You can know the facts and public feelings if you were present in that era, or you can ask some ordinary people, who don't belong to any political party.
Think about how he get started his political carrier? what he has used to gain publicity? with open minds.
Have you lived in that era of Bhuto?
What I said are my personal (and of most Pakistanis) feelings since that time.
most of the public suffered by the hands of Bhuto, you may know if u lived at that period.
When Bhuto 1st took over, inflation jumped high ( e.g. sugar: from Rs. 2.25/kg to 3.50/kg... 5.00/kg) even the basic sugar, wheat, ghee and many basic things disappeared.. people were got arrested if they carry with them more than few Kgs of sugar.
many factories got closed because of Nat.... so lot of people lost jobs..
He gave a lollipop of roti, kapra aur makaan to the public, which no one received... (same as he never told about Tashqand)
If u had been to any of his jalsa u had seen, how he was playing with public emotions, to whom he delivered nothing..
He was a wise person, but at the same time he was a fascist, selfish and cunning.
I appreciate his decision of atom bomb, but all that will not happened if we would have "No war, No use of arms" treaty with India. (if someone 1st destroy your home, then give u a good gun to defend it afterward, will u for give him?)
He sowed the seed of destruction with Tashqand issue.
As I told b4 that he put breaks to Pakistan development.
I don't have any personal issues with him. But I do angry at any one who harms Pakistan.
Ayub Khan was an army dictator but people were far more happy than Bhuto era, the governance was better, and his economic policy was far better. He put Pakistan on industrial path. Law & order situation was better.
Food and drug inspection were done on regular basis.
Bhuto was a civilian dictator, who brought miseries in people lives, he was beating opposition leaders, throwing them out of Parliament.
The real facts are not mentioned in most of the books, because the writers have their own concerns and thoughts.
You can know the facts and public feelings if you were present in that era, or you can ask some ordinary people, who don't belong to any political party.
Think about how he get started his political carrier? what he has used to gain publicity? with open minds.
punjabimunda1
Banned
You have insulted millions of illitrate blind followers of Bhutto,s graves by calling me illitrate,,,as Corrupt and traiters of Zardaru league boast and claim always that their majority voters are extremely poor and illitrate,,You have exposed a typical jahil jiyala 3rd class mentality by calling me a Noora,,,Thanks God i am not a follower of a gaddar party whose leader sacrificed Pakistan for his own ego by not respecting mandate of people of pakistan,,,,,,Do not try to fool millions and millions of pakistan by saying 1977 elections were not rigged (Bhutto recognized after violent protests that elections were rigged in 50 constituencies),,moreover i witnessed 1977 rigging myself,,,,ShadPakistan has painted Bhuttos face black for his nationalization blunder and this true and sincere Pakistani has shown you your real face (I seriousely doubt you are not Pakistani),,,,1977 elections rigging were never chalenged in the court so there is no question to proves,,Benazeer was security risk for the country and its nuclear programme ,,there was perception and fear that Benazeer wanted to cap nuclear programme,,she handed over lists of sikhs to Rajiv Ghandi and removed Kashmir flags during Indian PM visit to Pakistan thats why military establishment tried to stop BB becoming PM in 1990 and distibuted election funds in politicians,,,that was right decision,,because illitrate masses who vote PPP dont know the real intentions of traiter party,so it is a great service to stop who always damaged Pakistan and its intrests,,,,one can assume if establishment could try to stop Zardaru NRO Khappy,,,Today Pakistan,s economy,institutions are in ruins,,corruption in federal ministries has beaten all records of history of Pakistan,,There is hardly any leader of Khappay traiter party who has not sucked the blood of poors,,since 2008 huge rise in poverty which was 32% when Khappay Traiter took over,,now 62%,,,,,,inflation has slaughtered the poor masses and middle class has eventualy disappeared,,,foriegn debts has been doubled by corrupt Khappay Govt,,2 billion rupees are printed everyday,,,railway,PIA,OGDC,NICL,Pakistan Steel,Pepco all in ruins,,,,PIA is delibrately destroyed so PHEENI Farayal Talpur could launch her own Indus Airlines,,Railway is handed over to disabled Ghulam Kamzor who destroyed parcel train and passenger train to benfit his family transport business,,Pakistan cant afford luxury of Bhutto graves and Zardari Khappay so please stop all non sense and stupid arguement by supporting enemies of pakistan ,, dont assume yourself an intelactual ,,,,Intelactuals like you are resposible for suffering of common man of Pakistan,,Dont call my thoughts as shallow,,There is huge difference between you and me,,You are slave of fake and selfish leader and i dont follow blindly anyone who has damaged Pakistan by his policies and corruption,,I am Pakistani first of all and you are slave of a proven traiter,,,,,shame on you,,
