Tashkund Agreement After war of 1965

[Altaf Lutfi]

What Ayub Khan really achieved ? a) end of war and beginning of normalization process. b) Face saving for the amo stocks gone down to level almost sub zero. c) curtailed initiation of open US and allies rebuff. d) Freezing Kashmir issue for reasonable time period. e) Successfully convincing Russians to rethink their blind opposition to Pak as US settelite and take note of winks from Islamabad. f)

Was Pakistan or India in a stronger position in 1965 war ? Pakistan was stronger in the field and proved more professional, however our strength was not a lasting advantage for a country with less resources and soft opposition by Us while Soviets were standing by Indians by all means. The support available from Indonesia and Iran was immediate but International politics with notorious complications could switch it off in long run, Ayub must have analyzed it all to have something then or leave it all in coming months. Lets not assume that Tashkent agreement was inked by keeping US in the dark.

 

[wadera]

I appreciate his decision of atom bomb, but all that will not happened if we would have "No war, No use of arms" treaty with India. (if someone 1st destroy your home, then give u a good gun to defend it afterward, will u for give him?)

This is where your thinking is fundamentally wrong - you are putting the whole issue on Bhutto while Bhutto made it very clear from the beginning that 1965 was a golden opportunity to make headway in Kashmir issue. Wonder why you keep ignoring this point? Ofcourse, its best suited for India to have no war, no use of arms treaty .. that would mean only ONE THING .. you have to forget Kashmir issue. IF you can't be fair to Bhutto for whatever reasons - atleast be fair to Kashmiri people man.

As I told b4 that he put breaks to Pakistan development.

We just came out from a war .. we were a battered nation. Please don't tell me that he put breaks on the development. If we didn't have the nuclear bomb .. all of us and our future generations will be indian slaves! Perhaps for you that is no big deal when compared to 'development'. Besides we can talk more on this point when you tell me what you mean by development! Also, do highlight which other leader after Bhutto has provided 'development'. Also, waiting for an example of a single person in history who gave up his life to attain nuclear bomb for the nation.

I don't have any personal issues with him. But I do angry at any one who harms Pakistan.

you keep saying this .. let me ask you . please tell me in order on who has harmed pakistan the most ..in terms of leaders .. include from all parties. I really want to see how you rank other 'leaders' with Bhutto.

Ayub Khan was an army dictator but people were far more happy than Bhuto era, the governance was better, and his economic policy was far better. He put Pakistan on industrial path. Law & order situation was better.
Food and drug inspection were done on regular basis.

Question - if Ayub was so much better in your opinion - why was Bhutto so successful in west Pakistan in Elections? Why did Ayub select him as a foreign minister and then jailed him? Why Ayub khan and all leaders combined before him couldn't even give a constitution to the nation? Why Ayub n Yahya brought our army to its knees in 1971 debacle? My point is you are showering praise on a dictator by only looking at some positive aspects while with Bhutto you are only talking negative stuff .. how is that even fair?

The real facts are not mentioned in most of the books, because the writers have their own concerns and thoughts.

So, all books are wrong but you know it all? is that what you are saying? .. amazing ... I can only laugh at this comment.

You can know the facts and public feelings if you were present in that era, or you can ask some ordinary people, who don't belong to any political party.

Think about how he get started his political carrier? what he has used to gain publicity? with open minds.

Granted I wasn't there during Bhutto's era but I have spoken to many many many people who were present .. and there are only two kinds available .. one which are your kind .. which no matter what argument you bring forth .. don't like to even admit his good work .. second which are pro bhutto .. and these Pro Bhutto also include people who are not supportive of PPP.

If you want to keep a bias view ... then I guess there is no point to discuss this further, let us agree to disagree.

 

[wadera]

You have insulted millions of illitrate blind followers of Bhutto,s graves by calling me illitrate,,,as Corrupt and traiters of Zardaru league boast and claim always that their majority voters are extremely poor and illitrate,,You have exposed a typical jahil jiyala 3rd class mentality by calling me a Noora,,,Thanks God i am not a follower of a gaddar party whose leader sacrificed Pakistan for his own ego by not respecting mandate of people of pakistan,,,,,,Do not try to fool millions and millions of pakistan by saying 1977 elections were not rigged (Bhutto recognized after violent protests that elections were rigged in 50 constituencies),,moreover i witnessed 1977 rigging myself,,,,ShadPakistan has painted Bhuttos face black for his nationalization blunder and this true and sincere Pakistani has shown you your real face (I seriousely doubt you are not Pakistani),,,,1977 elections rigging were never chalenged in the court so there is no question to proves,,Benazeer was security risk for the country and its nuclear programme ,,there was perception and fear that Benazeer wanted to cap nuclear programme,,she handed over lists of sikhs to Rajiv Ghandi and removed Kashmir flags during Indian PM visit to Pakistan thats why military establishment tried to stop BB becoming PM in 1990 and distibuted election funds in politicians,,,that was right decision,,because illitrate masses who vote PPP dont know the real intentions of traiter party,so it is a great service to stop who always damaged Pakistan and its intrests,,,,one can assume if establishment could try to stop Zardaru NRO Khappy,,,Today Pakistan,s economy,institutions are in ruins,,corruption in federal ministries has beaten all records of history of Pakistan,,There is hardly any leader of Khappay traiter party who has not sucked the blood of poors,,since 2008 huge rise in poverty which was 32% when Khappay Traiter took over,,now 62%,,,,,,inflation has slaughtered the poor masses and middle class has eventualy disappeared,,,foriegn debts has been doubled by corrupt Khappay Govt,,2 billion rupees are printed everyday,,,railway,PIA,OGDC,NICL,Pakistan Steel,Pepco all in ruins,,,,PIA is delibrately destroyed so PHEENI Farayal Talpur could launch her own Indus Airlines,,Railway is handed over to disabled Ghulam Kamzor who destroyed parcel train and passenger train to benfit his family transport business,,Pakistan cant afford luxury of Bhutto graves and Zardari Khappay so please stop all non sense and stupid arguement by supporting enemies of pakistan ,, dont assume yourself an intelactual ,,,,Intelactuals like you are resposible for suffering of common man of Pakistan,,Dont call my thoughts as shallow,,There is huge difference between you and me,,You are slave of fake and selfish leader and i dont follow blindly anyone who has damaged Pakistan by his policies and corruption,,I am Pakistani first of all and you are slave of a proven traiter,,,,,shame on you,,

haha .. Noora .. Noora .. Noora .. exposed.. I really don't see a point of talking to a person like you. My sincere suggestion to you is .. learn some English grammar, comprehension and when you are able to write one paragraph correctly, then we can talk. For now - congratulations you are on my ignore list :)
[MENTION=23831]UKPakistani[/MENTION] [MENTION=8630]Raaz[/MENTION] [MENTION=33654]Mehrushka[/MENTION] . [MENTION=23769]Machar[/MENTION] [MENTION=27938]PTI-TIGER[/MENTION] .... a noora is truly exposed....

 

[wadera]

Of all the childish comments, can anybody tell me that what is actually wrong with this piece of writing. He has just quoted a source and provided us with a statement that was present in the treaty, nothing more, nothing less. Other than that, just a few lines upon his point of view described in a certain way. We are here to kill everybody, innit? We wouldn't ever try to read the book ourselves or have a discussion about anything.

Bro , I have taken this opportunity to expose the 'Noora-ism' .. as you can see blind followers of a coward like noora can go to any length. Unfortunate but what else can one expect

 

[wadera]

What Ayub Khan really achieved ? a) end of war and beginning of normalization process. b) Face saving for the amo stocks gone down to level almost sub zero. c) curtailed initiation of open US and allies rebuff. d) Freezing Kashmir issue for reasonable time period. e) Successfully convincing Russians to rethink their blind opposition to Pak as US settelite and take note of winks from Islamabad. f)

Was Pakistan or India in a stronger position in 1965 war ? Pakistan was stronger in the field and proved more professional, however our strength was not a lasting advantage for a country with less resources and soft opposition by Us while Soviets were standing by Indians by all means. The support available from Indonesia and Iran was immediate but International politics with notorious complications could switch it off in long run, Ayub must have analyzed it all to have something then or leave it all in coming months. Lets not assume that Tashkent agreement was inked by keeping US in the dark.

This is why I asked these two simple questions. Firstly, just think for a moment on why India was so keen to come to negotiate? Its because they knew too well that Pakistan had the upper hand and as far as the 'resource constraint' is concerned this affected both countries. For you to claim that it was only Pakistan .. I am surprised at the level of your knowledge of this simple fact.

Now coming to your statement on 'achievements' -

a) end of war and beginning of normalization process - this is not really an achievement considering we started the war and by starting the war the only objective was Kashmir. So, we failed in the objective we set out for .. this when our position was strong!

b) Face saving for the amo stocks gone down to level almost sub zero - how can this be an achievement? So are you saying that 1971 surrender by 'Tiger Niazi' was face saving too? Give me a break

c) curtailed initiation of open US and allies rebuff - WHAT ? you call this an achievement??????? please stop copy-pasting stuff .. doesn't look good on you.

d) Freezing Kashmir issue for reasonable time period - It is amazing that you call this an achievement - clearly Kashmir was the sole reason to have the war with India .. and by freezing kashmir issue through the declaration is not an achievement rather an embarrassment ..this was the reason Bhutto was so much against this declaration!!

The rest of your points really have no substance in the events that followed 1965 .. but once again .. Kashmir was the core issue .. and we basically destroyed this, no thanks to Ayub Khan submitting to Shastri in Tashkent.

 

[UKPakistani]

,moreover i witnessed 1977 rigging myself,,,

That makes you as old as me........

so where is the "munda" come from

punjabi bhuda more like :)

 

[PTI-TIGER]

Ohhhhhhhh ki ho giya hai yar bewakof hai laga rahy

 

[Altaf Lutfi]

Depth of you knowledge on international issues and style is suitable for Americans, I hope. I do not have craze for "shock and awe". Enjoy !!

 

[punjabimunda1]

ha ha ha You may call me Punjabi Bhudda ,,,,(clap)

That makes you as old as me........

so where is the "munda" come from

punjabi bhuda more like :)

 

[punjabimunda1]

You seems A pure hypocrite like Bhutto ,,,A so called PTI supporter and fighting for Bhutto,s nationalization policy,,contradictions in thoughts and likes and dislikes,,,,A supporter of PTI will never fight for hypocrite Bhutto who destroyed Pakistan by nationalization and not respecting mandate of people,,,1 thing is abvious in your case,,,you have learnt hypocricy,lies from Bhutto,,,He was realy cunning and selfish,,Bhutto-ism is mother of all evils in our country,,,

Bro , I have taken this opportunity to expose the 'Noora-ism' .. as you can see blind followers of a coward like noora can go to any length. Unfortunate but what else can one expect

 

[punjabimunda1]

it seems you are hit badly by my comments and your hyocricy is exposed thats why you are abusing me !!!be cool ,have a glass of water,,dont put me on ignore list ,,Evil Bhutto,s followers are scum,,They are responsible for current situation,,,,if you are realy PTI supporter,i have no problem, BUT supporting Bhutto is equal to supporting Zardaru Khappay and I am sure you are supporter of Zardaru Khappay League,,,if PTI wins i will celebrate,that will be a big change but traiter Zardaru khappay,s victory is unacceptable,,,,,,You do not need to teach me English grammer,,I am ok what I am ,,i am not haram-khor like your hero Bhutto and Zardaru Khappay and that is enough,,,does it makes any difference if my grammer is bad ? what a stupid comment !! seems a typical traiter jiyala !!I am sure reader understand what i write,,I am sure Salman Rushdi,s English is also very good like you but he is evil and follower of Satan like you!!!!!!

haha .. Noora .. Noora .. Noora .. exposed.. I really don't see a point of talking to a person like you. My sincere suggestion to you is .. learn some English grammar, comprehension and when you are able to write one paragraph correctly, then we can talk. For now - congratulations you are on my ignore list :)
@UKPakistani @Raaz @Mehrushka . @Machar @PTI-TIGER .... a noora is truly exposed....

 

[IhsanIlahi]

Clearly, your biasness is so freakin' obvious that you don't understand the depth of issues yet you talk as if you know everything.

Do you know how nationalization happened? Do you know what other countries in the world were upto at that time on nationalization? Do you also know what year this happened?

Go and find that information before you come and claim such.

Lastly, how dare you call Bhutto a selfish person - clearly, you have no sense of history. Bhutto sacrificed his life for Pakistan, so what kind of ungrateful person are you to talk like this.

Shame on you!

Idhar Ham -- Udhar Tum

 

[wadera]

You seems A pure hypocrite like Bhutto ,,,A so called PTI supporter and fighting for Bhutto,s nationalization policy,,contradictions in thoughts and likes and dislikes,,,,A supporter of PTI will never fight for hypocrite Bhutto who destroyed Pakistan by nationalization and not respecting mandate of people,,,1 thing is abvious in your case,,,you have learnt hypocricy,lies from Bhutto,,,He was realy cunning and selfish,,Bhutto-ism is mother of all evils in our country,,,

it seems you are hit badly by my comments and your hyocricy is exposed thats why you are abusing me !!!be cool ,have a glass of water,,dont put me on ignore list ,,Evil Bhutto,s followers are scum,,They are responsible for current situation,,,,if you are realy PTI supporter,i have no problem, BUT supporting Bhutto is equal to supporting Zardaru Khappay and I am sure you are supporter of Zardaru Khappay League,,,if PTI wins i will celebrate,that will be a big change but traiter Zardaru khappay,s victory is unacceptable,,,,,,You do not need to teach me English grammer,,I am ok what I am ,,i am not haram-khor like your hero Bhutto and Zardaru Khappay and that is enough,,,does it makes any difference if my grammer is bad ? what a stupid comment !! seems a typical traiter jiyala !!I am sure reader understand what i write,,I am sure Salman Rushdi,s English is also very good like you but he is evil and follower of Satan like you!!!!!!

Tu cheez kia hai akhir,,,her admi ki writting mein keerray nikalte ho,,,itna ehsaas e bartari kio hai tum mein,,kion itni ghattiya mentality hai tumari,,kion itna personal hote ho,,,bohat hi munafiq ho apne leader bhutto ki tara,,,woh pakistan ka gaddar tha jis ne iqtedar ke liye Pakistan ke 2 tukrray kar diye,,,aur us ki marhooma beti ne bhi sirf Pakistan ko nuqsan hi ponchaya,,kon si khidmat hai aan jahani BB ki aur yeh Zardaru Bhutto ki hi virasat hai na aur aaj jo pakistan mein aam admi ke issues hain kia un ki zemedar yehi PPP nahin,,bohat hi kisi ghatiya admi ki paidawaar ho tum,,:lol::lol::lol:

You have put so much abuse against me, called me a follower of satan and many other evil things.

However, I am not surprised at all, this is what I expected of you. I don't blame you, I blame your parents for the way they raised you. I can curse you, your mother, your father and abuse but guess what I am not like you. I won't stoop low to your level to abuse you or your family or call you a follower of satan.

You, your parents and their parents, your children will be answerable on the Day of Judgment to all the filthy language that you have used against me and my family. I will not forgive you and insha'Allah on the day of Judgment you will be answerable for all the filth you have mentioned above. It is my sincere prayer to Allah Al-Mighty that even in this world . you and your family pay a very heavy price for the filth you have written. Ameen.

 

[wadera]

A Simple Question to all the Nooras on Siasat.pk

Why do you people resort to abusive and filthy language when you can't discuss rationally? Is this what you have been taught by Nawaz Sharif and Shahbaz?

I notice this among zaeem qadri, ch nisar and others too. Is this a pre-requisite to becoming a noora?

In this case, I am referring to the filth, abuse and venom that a siasat.pk member punjabimunda (NOORA) has used against me ... link below:

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?146450-Tashkund-Agreement-After-war-of-1965

Why can't you people talk like normal human beings? Is it too hard for you? Have your parents not taught you a basic lesson in manners? Do you not know even the basics of Islam that you act this way? Honestly, I feel pity on your parents for it only shows that they have failed in your upbringing... sad case really.

I sincerely hope some noora can give me a proper answer to this without resorting to abuse... lets see...

 

[rajaokayoum]

Re: A Simple Question to all the Nooras on Siasat.pk

before u ask this..go in past and look how they distribute Naked Photos of BB and this is their mentality approach by calling names and making fun of every opponents........than main factor is minus performance from last 30 years in ruling.......only slogans and if u want more about PMLN politics read Hasan Nisar todays column about tactis they r using to buy youth............

 

[wadera]

Re: A Simple Question to all the Nooras on Siasat.pk

before u ask this..go in past and look how they distribute Naked Photos of BB and this is their mentality approach by calling names and making fun of every opponents........than main factor is minus performance from last 30 years in ruling.......only slogans and if u want more about PMLN politics read Hasan Nisar todays column about tactis they r using to buy youth............

I wasn't really anti PML-N or noora . nor was I supporting PPPP .. but now anyone is better than PML-N .. they are the filth of our country ..

Now my resolve is stronger that PTI and IK should kick nooras out of punjab .. their ugly tactics are really exposed now .

 

[rajaokayoum]

Re: A Simple Question to all the Nooras on Siasat.pk

I wasn't really anti PML-N or noora . nor was I supporting PPPP .. but now anyone is better than PML-N .. they are the filth of our country ..

Now my resolve is stronger that PTI and IK should kick nooras out of punjab .. their ugly tactics are really exposed now .

u r not only one who left, millions others.........nothing personal they fail to deliver but wont leave ...kings attitude and dont think that others have right to live....................first time we all made them mad.............

 

[Qureshi1975]

Re: A Simple Question to all the Nooras on Siasat.pk

Wow look who is talking about filth? can not you see the language of PTI suppoerters used against Marvi Memon, Sana Bucha, Maryam Nawaz, Irfan Sidiquie, Mushtaq Minhas, Nusrat Javed, Atta ul Haq Qasmi, Ch Nisar and Abid Sher Ali. These are just some examples of filth coming out from Ha-ra-m-i Party supporters. So before open your mouth make sure you have TP to clean your own filth(thumbsdown)

 

[wadera]

Re: A Simple Question to all the Nooras on Siasat.pk

u r not only one who left, millions others.........nothing personal they fail to deliver but wont leave ...kings attitude and dont think that others have right to live....................first time we all made them mad.............

They are really a copy-cat party .. and nothing else

Just wait for me to expose them even further now ... these idiots think they can control the world ... when their leaders can't even control things in their own families .

 

[punjabimunda1]

Re: A Simple Question to all the Nooras on Siasat.pk

ha ha ha kitni takleef hui tum ko Bhutto ke supporter;;;,,BTW pti wale ziada abusive language use karte hain lekin i dont hate them,,,,,but i hate the followers and supporters of Bhutto and Zardari Khappay ,,,Hassan Nisar himself use foul and abusive language,,,and targets pmln ,,,he is big supporter of MQM and PPP and pti now a days,,,he is biased towards pmln,,,,if some one has any detail about abusive language used by pmln,,please post it,,,,Wadera tum khud kon se sulje huay ho,,tum personal ho jate ho,,,shame on you,,

I wasn't really anti PML-N or noora . nor was I supporting PPPP .. but now anyone is better than PML-N .. they are the filth of our country ..

Now my resolve is stronger that PTI and IK should kick nooras out of punjab .. their ugly tactics are really exposed now .