Kion chand nay bhi Altaf bhai ki tarha bhatta lena shoro ker diya hai?
Saudia mian aaj chaand nazar any ka imkaaan
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barca
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
آج خبروں میں سن رہا تھا سکینڈے نیویا والے ایک دن پہلے عید مناے گے
Wednesday?
Turkish tu calendar follow kerte hain, unki eid jumayraat ko hai
barca
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
ان کی جمرات کو اور ہماری جمہ کو
یہ بھی ہوسکتا ہے ہماری بھی جمرات کو ہی ہو جائے
یہ بھی ہوسکتا ہے ہماری بھی جمرات کو ہی ہو جائے
talkingbird2009
Banned
Good post and I hope it does not get merged!
talkingbird2009
Banned
Scientific babu can u give us that calculation formula please. I want to calculate the sighting. Bari meherbani zara formula to likh do moon sighting ka!
Yahan darzion ke ilawa sab hi jumayraat ki tayyari kiye bathay hain hamare taraf
miafridi
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
They used past data which has been collected for years to point out exactly which day the moon is going to appear. That is how they calculate it. Ab samjay? nai samjay toh classes shuru kar du apki?
Today science can predict the exact time of sun rising and setting using data from the past.
The modern calender that we use has shows the exact day and date even of 2050 and beyond so moon sighting is also a part of it.
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talkingbird2009
Banned
Dear Boy ,
It is called forecasting and forecasting is never accurate. Some homework for my PTI Boy :
For a forecast can you be sure @ 100 percent if the weather report tells you that its going to rain today and percentage chances are like 60 - 70 % or 40 % are 60 %? the intelligent ones would wait for the actual rain to happen in order to be sure at 100 percent So is the case with visibility of moon. You have to see it...the moon has to be visible we cannot rely on these forecast models and the reason is that these are based on models which in turn are based on historical timeline data.
talkingbird2009
Banned
Another home work for you boy :
There is no such formula that can pinpoint the visibility of the moon. Be reminded that the islamic calender depends on the visibility of moon and not on the geographical coordinates of the moon. Moreover these formulas use historical data as stem for the forecasting for instance let say that
In 1989 on the 5th day of July it rained 60 mm in New York
In 1990 on the 5th day of July it rained 75 mm in New York
In 1991 on the 5th day of July it rained 2 mm in New York
What are the chances of rainfall in NY in 2013 on the 5th day of July? Now what they do is that based on the historic data the model will interpolate the historical points and project a probability for year 2013. The big question is would that be accurate? No...its just a forecast and may happen that there would not be any rainfall during the 5th day of of July in 2013.
Kia khayal hay PTI boy?
miafridi
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Grand dad, you are right about rain forecast which is always and always based on probability because there are thousands of things affecting the happening of rain such the the wind, its direction,temperature,density of clouds etc and you cannot match all the conditions to get a perfect result. But planetary motion is a continuous and rhetoric process and you can exactly predict in which area the earth and the moon will be aligned in the year 2050 at 20:10 O:clock. Same with moon you can predict how it will be aligned to the earth and what will be the angle of earth and moon and from which angle will it we visible from the earth at a particular time.
Secondly, forecast prediction can be entirely opposite(e.g you predict it will rain today and will rain for almost a week but you don't see rain for even a month) but in case of planetary objects you are always certain that its going to happen but the thing that has irked the scholars all over the world over the moon sighting is the fact that the moon observatory scientists told them that the moon would be visible on either 6 or 7 or august.. which is a difference of one day. Now it is certain that moon sighting if not happened on 6th it will surely be then on 7. So if you don't see moon on 6th you don't even have to keep the telescope to see the moon on 7th because you already know that there is no way that the moon wouldn't be seen on 7th. The scholars are in debate that why the observatory has a difference of 1 day and can't predict it on exactly the same day?
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
بھائی، جانو بنے یا ابھی تک ماموں ہی ہو
barca
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
میں تو اپنی طرف سے جانو بن گیا ہوں قانونی طور پر دو سال کم ہیں
talkingbird2009
Banned
Young Lad,
DO you understand the difference between position and visbility of the moon? Position can be forecasted or determined but its the visibility that is in question lad. The current model is based on historical data of souther hemisphere and also it does no take into consideration other important variables like relative position of sun and earth with respect to moon. The Solar radiations, How luminious the sky conditions were, atmospheric disturbances and the amount of light absorbed or reflected by the moon at different times of the year. Kia samghe Boy?
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
تصویر سے بیس سال کم لگتے ہیں
الله خیر و عافیت رکھے، میری طرف سے پیشگی مبارک. افطاری میں ایک کھجور آپ کے نام کی
الله خیر و عافیت رکھے، میری طرف سے پیشگی مبارک. افطاری میں ایک کھجور آپ کے نام کی
miafridi
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Grand Dad, I thought you were against science, as you said that there was no formula in science to predict a thing like moon, but now you came up with a clear answer about the model. And yes indeed the model carries little variables to consider the moon sighting. But there is nothing wrong with science. And if more variables like relative position of sun and moon in regard to earth and also the angle of light relection to the earth is added to the model then there will be no problem of predicting the exact time. Seems like you have changed your stance as you were calling it a forecast while it isn't a forecast. A forecast is entirely different thing. but in case of Moon sighting model it needs to include only few variable infact just 3 to 4 variables to predict exactly the day and time....
Zindabad
MPA (400+ posts)
talkingbird2009
Banned
not just 3-4 may be more . 3-4 are just pointed out by me but experts can point to more but again just like a rainforecast model this will not be an exact science. The best is to watch and observe. You are not dead untill u r dead? It does not rain until u see it raining and what can be more scientific than that?
miafridi
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
I think you need to revisit the comment of that person and mine and you will see that he was saying that this mistake happened due to the scholars who urge the moon sighting manually and oppose the scientific way. And he was suggesting that people and those sholars should use science to avoid such mistake. I quoted him and said that it was actually science that led to this mistake and not the manual sighting and scholars are now thinking of sighting the moon manually rather than relying on technology.
Moon sighting manually has its own amazing feeling. The first one to locate the moon in an area always feel proud. And it was our tradition for a long time that we used to go out and used to locate the moon all by ourselves but things have changed. people rely too much on governments now. I hope the government of Pakistan will also select a date for completing 29 fasts if it happened to be falling short.
I think what needs to happen is that Saudi Arabia needs to launch a satellite in geosynchronous orbit over Mecca. This satellite will observe the Moon like a telescopic aid, albeit an awesome one. Therefore the Moon will ALWAYS be sighted when it supposed to be sighted. This will satisfy the astronomers who base moon position and phase on their calculations and also the sight hogs who want to "SEE" the moon. Problem solved for Saudi Arabia, the rest of the world can either choose to follow the new gold standard of Mecca or just keep doing whatever it is they like doing right now and squabble among themselves. :)
