sajidliaqat07
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
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Quran men Pakistan ka Zikr. . .Must listen?? Where we went Wrong??
- Thread starter sajidliaqat07
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- islam pakisan tanzeem-e-islami
Ali raza babar
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Really heart touching............
sajidliaqat07
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
sajidliaqat07
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
The quran can be used both for guidance and misguidance. It depends how one has leaned to use the quran to see whether one has learned to guide oneself and others or misguide oneself and others.
Originality of a message and its consistency is as important as its purposefulness.
Messengers of Allah had original messages from Allah and they were consistent and purposeful. So long as ummah does not read the quran with these points in mind and starts questioning what its mullahs and ignorant, illiterate, uneducated or unthinking molvies teach it, things will not take the turn for the better.
Today people need to know the quran as we have it is original or not. It is because if we have any doubt at all that the quran we have is not original then no matter what we claim to be, we will not accept anything the quran tells us with our hearts and minds which seems to go against our personal vested interests. So the question is, how many of us human beings have bothered to learn how to prove beyond a shadow of reasonable doubt the quran we have is original?
See how people attack deen of islam by telling us the quran we have is not original.
critical analysis of the quran.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd9lIuUjPs0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHCeYSvazY4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDU0MelOOSc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6udiRzFO4Sk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwo5xpO390k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsh1ZyXnMT4
It was duty of people who proclaimed the quran to humanity that they also prove to mankind its originality. Since we- who claim to be missionaries as a proper human community or an ummah- have stopped doing that it has given the stick in the hands of others to beat us up with. This is why instead of people coming to deen of islam are leaving it openly or secretly. Instead of reason and consistency we have adopted force where we can use it to try to enforce what we claim deen of islam to be which we ourselves have no idea is consistent with the quran or not.
Unless we start studying the quran the way we should, this situation therefore cannot improve in our favour and will keep on deteriorating. Instead of doing our God given duty the way we are told by God, we are busy doing things we want to do and the way we want to do them disregarding what Allah told us to do and the way to do it in the quran. No wonder we are not succeeding and are facing failures one after the other.
If we want things to work for us then we must stop doing whatever we are doing and think and do things we are told by the quran and exactly as we are told to do them by the quran. Only then we can be sure to succeed because if we will do what is told by the quran and the way it is told then success is guaranteed.
The questions therefore are,
1)Have we bothered to find out what the quran wants us to do?
2)Have we bothered to find out the way the quran wants us to do those things?
3) Have we prioritised whatever we are supposed to do?
4) Have we worked out any effective action plan and have put it in place?
5) Are we properly organised and regulated for accomplishing whatever we are to do?
If we have done all this then we are ready to face the world but if we have not done all this then failure is bound to be the result of whatever we do and that is what is before our very eyes. So no surprise there, is there?
Therefore if we want the world to be a blissful, dignified and secure place for our future generations then the quran is the only book that can lead us there for sure and no other scripture, belief or deed against it can bring such success in this life or in hereafter.
So we should stop wasting our time by listening to nonsense of mullahs and their touts and instead learn how to study the quran by ourselves. If we already know the quran then we should help others do the same. We should not attribute any kind of nonsense to Allah and his messenger in the name of deen of islam. We should try our best to ensure what we are claiming is deen of islam is in actual fact deen of islam and not a make belief or a useless or a damaging action.
So we should ensure we know the quran is original, the message we are getting about the quran from any source is purposefully and consistent with the quran. If we will accept anything other than that then we are not only digging our own graves but also of our future generations as well as of rest of humanity. So no point in complaining or making silly excuses.
Originality of a message and its consistency is as important as its purposefulness.
Messengers of Allah had original messages from Allah and they were consistent and purposeful. So long as ummah does not read the quran with these points in mind and starts questioning what its mullahs and ignorant, illiterate, uneducated or unthinking molvies teach it, things will not take the turn for the better.
Today people need to know the quran as we have it is original or not. It is because if we have any doubt at all that the quran we have is not original then no matter what we claim to be, we will not accept anything the quran tells us with our hearts and minds which seems to go against our personal vested interests. So the question is, how many of us human beings have bothered to learn how to prove beyond a shadow of reasonable doubt the quran we have is original?
See how people attack deen of islam by telling us the quran we have is not original.
critical analysis of the quran.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd9lIuUjPs0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHCeYSvazY4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDU0MelOOSc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6udiRzFO4Sk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwo5xpO390k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsh1ZyXnMT4
It was duty of people who proclaimed the quran to humanity that they also prove to mankind its originality. Since we- who claim to be missionaries as a proper human community or an ummah- have stopped doing that it has given the stick in the hands of others to beat us up with. This is why instead of people coming to deen of islam are leaving it openly or secretly. Instead of reason and consistency we have adopted force where we can use it to try to enforce what we claim deen of islam to be which we ourselves have no idea is consistent with the quran or not.
Unless we start studying the quran the way we should, this situation therefore cannot improve in our favour and will keep on deteriorating. Instead of doing our God given duty the way we are told by God, we are busy doing things we want to do and the way we want to do them disregarding what Allah told us to do and the way to do it in the quran. No wonder we are not succeeding and are facing failures one after the other.
If we want things to work for us then we must stop doing whatever we are doing and think and do things we are told by the quran and exactly as we are told to do them by the quran. Only then we can be sure to succeed because if we will do what is told by the quran and the way it is told then success is guaranteed.
The questions therefore are,
1)Have we bothered to find out what the quran wants us to do?
2)Have we bothered to find out the way the quran wants us to do those things?
3) Have we prioritised whatever we are supposed to do?
4) Have we worked out any effective action plan and have put it in place?
5) Are we properly organised and regulated for accomplishing whatever we are to do?
If we have done all this then we are ready to face the world but if we have not done all this then failure is bound to be the result of whatever we do and that is what is before our very eyes. So no surprise there, is there?
Therefore if we want the world to be a blissful, dignified and secure place for our future generations then the quran is the only book that can lead us there for sure and no other scripture, belief or deed against it can bring such success in this life or in hereafter.
So we should stop wasting our time by listening to nonsense of mullahs and their touts and instead learn how to study the quran by ourselves. If we already know the quran then we should help others do the same. We should not attribute any kind of nonsense to Allah and his messenger in the name of deen of islam. We should try our best to ensure what we are claiming is deen of islam is in actual fact deen of islam and not a make belief or a useless or a damaging action.
So we should ensure we know the quran is original, the message we are getting about the quran from any source is purposefully and consistent with the quran. If we will accept anything other than that then we are not only digging our own graves but also of our future generations as well as of rest of humanity. So no point in complaining or making silly excuses.
Re: I warned Musharraf but He denied - Dr. Israr Ahmed
1) For an urdu, farsi or arabic speaker it is very easy to refute all scholars who think the quran we have today is not original. How? By looking at ancient copies of the quran. These copies did not have dots to distinguish between letters to begin with and they did not have vowel marks. What does that mean? It means BAY, TAY, SAY, NOON and YAI could not be written as separated letters because they used the very same sign or symbol. JEEM, HAY and KHAY used the very same sign. Like wise DAAL and ZAA, RAY and ZAY, SEEN and SHEEN, SWAD and DWAD, TOE and ZOE, AIN and GHAIN, FAY and QAAF, and LAAM and YAI used the same sign. This being the case none could read a writing unless one already knew the text by heart.
2)Each of the newer languages have been borrowing words from other ancestral and sisterly languages and when it comes to arabic, it is a root based system so depending on where it borrowed a word from it ended up with multiple roots for words. What does that mean? It means the same word could be written with different letters eg take word SIRAAT, one can write it with root SEEN, RAA and TWAA or SWAAD, RAA and TWAA. So in arabic letters for many words are interchangeable.
3)In arabic vowels can be replaced with diacritical marks so each consonant could have six possible sounds eg MEEM could be MU or MOOO, or MA or MAAA, or ME or MEEE etc. So if we wrote just four consonants MHMD, we will have 6x6x6x6=1296 possibilities of pronunciations.
4)These are concrete facts that any scholar can verify for oneself. It is really challenging for any scholar to try reading a text that is size of the quran merely from the consonants alone without having known it previously. One cannot read such a text unless one has it already in one's memory. This is clear proof that the quran was memorised direct from the source otherwise merely having a text could end up as countless number of different readings because each word could be pronounced in many different ways due to lack of diacritical marks as well as due to lack of dots for identification of each letter in words. The lack of such huge number of variant reading of the quranic text in the muslim world concretely proves that the quran as we have it today is original.
5)Just as it was not possible to read the quran from the written text alone uniformly so it was not possible to write the quran uniformly if it was not copied in writing from the already existing written copies of the quran. Why not? As explained already many words in the quran had variant roots so if people sat down to write a text out of their memories as individuals then each person will have made a copy from his memory as he knew how to write a word so there will occur numberless variants written texts. For example, if people had to write down word SIRAAT, some will write it with SEEN and others with SWAAD. Not only that but they will do it in different places in the quranic text wherever this word was repeated. Since the quran has many such words in it then we ought to find such variations in huge numbers ie trillions of variants but we do not. How can any scholar in the world explain that? So another clear proof that the quran came down both in written and memorised forms independent of each other.
6)These simple explanations are sufficient to prove that people who rely on false reports in hadith books and other sources to prove the quran was collected and written down after the prophet are seriously mistaken and such reports should not be taken seriously in light of such concrete proofs as stated here.
7)This does not mean there are no copying errors in the existing copies of the quran, there are but the nature of error is very simple ie humans make all sorts of errors due to absent mindedness in whatever they do. Mind always wonders off when people get tired or bored in doing something so they may end up writing something out of context or missing the whole line of text or add something from whatever is in their minds etc etc. Not only that people add their own notes in books for jogging their memory about some points they think are important to highlight for later referral. So those who were copying the quran suffered the same but nothing was done deliberately because for that one had to have a purpose in mind. What I mean is that if anyone wanted to change the quran deliberately then one ought to have some purpose in mind which his new quran could serve and in that case ummah could never have the same quranic text which it always have had to date.
8)So all allegations against the originality of the quran are mere misunderstanding of the scholars and nothing more unless they have ulterior motives to deliberately say falsehood against the originality of the quran but that only they know for themselves.
For ancient copies of the quran see following links.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nZpClvTaDo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsyeR77WT7g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPYHCUARxsw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2xKDbOU5wc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYAGtR7EdS0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41DtjRnx6Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H7If_rSl7E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m6BXstWgRU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RFchKei17o
9)A misunderstanding of scholars is that they take modification of written arabic as changes in text of the quran. They do not realise that when people face problems they look for solutions. It was found very difficult to read and write the quran the way the original arabic was written so they came up with idea of adding dots and diacritical marks to reduce dependency on memory. This is why when new ways of writing the very same text were discovered the number of hufaaz of the quran dropped from say 90% to a few percent. It is because people could now read actual message from the written arabic text except for a small number of things so dependency on hufaaz decreased with time and coming about of printing press. To explain the same point further as an example, if a word was management and it was written as MNGMNT and was modified to management due to development and progress in the language then scholars due to their ignorance took it as a change in the actual text of the quran, which is silly to say the least. We even today use sign for many things including road traffic signs instead of writing because they are easy to work with than standing and reading a sign while people blow their tops off shouting during busy road traffic. So it all depends on how a society organises and regulates itself and how easy it feels with what it does otherwise people modify things as it suits them better. So when things seemed difficult arabs modified the way of writing arabic and in doing so benefited from this modification. Such simple explanations are ignored by people or they remain ignorant about them yet they claim their research is of highest standard.
1) For an urdu, farsi or arabic speaker it is very easy to refute all scholars who think the quran we have today is not original. How? By looking at ancient copies of the quran. These copies did not have dots to distinguish between letters to begin with and they did not have vowel marks. What does that mean? It means BAY, TAY, SAY, NOON and YAI could not be written as separated letters because they used the very same sign or symbol. JEEM, HAY and KHAY used the very same sign. Like wise DAAL and ZAA, RAY and ZAY, SEEN and SHEEN, SWAD and DWAD, TOE and ZOE, AIN and GHAIN, FAY and QAAF, and LAAM and YAI used the same sign. This being the case none could read a writing unless one already knew the text by heart.
2)Each of the newer languages have been borrowing words from other ancestral and sisterly languages and when it comes to arabic, it is a root based system so depending on where it borrowed a word from it ended up with multiple roots for words. What does that mean? It means the same word could be written with different letters eg take word SIRAAT, one can write it with root SEEN, RAA and TWAA or SWAAD, RAA and TWAA. So in arabic letters for many words are interchangeable.
3)In arabic vowels can be replaced with diacritical marks so each consonant could have six possible sounds eg MEEM could be MU or MOOO, or MA or MAAA, or ME or MEEE etc. So if we wrote just four consonants MHMD, we will have 6x6x6x6=1296 possibilities of pronunciations.
4)These are concrete facts that any scholar can verify for oneself. It is really challenging for any scholar to try reading a text that is size of the quran merely from the consonants alone without having known it previously. One cannot read such a text unless one has it already in one's memory. This is clear proof that the quran was memorised direct from the source otherwise merely having a text could end up as countless number of different readings because each word could be pronounced in many different ways due to lack of diacritical marks as well as due to lack of dots for identification of each letter in words. The lack of such huge number of variant reading of the quranic text in the muslim world concretely proves that the quran as we have it today is original.
5)Just as it was not possible to read the quran from the written text alone uniformly so it was not possible to write the quran uniformly if it was not copied in writing from the already existing written copies of the quran. Why not? As explained already many words in the quran had variant roots so if people sat down to write a text out of their memories as individuals then each person will have made a copy from his memory as he knew how to write a word so there will occur numberless variants written texts. For example, if people had to write down word SIRAAT, some will write it with SEEN and others with SWAAD. Not only that but they will do it in different places in the quranic text wherever this word was repeated. Since the quran has many such words in it then we ought to find such variations in huge numbers ie trillions of variants but we do not. How can any scholar in the world explain that? So another clear proof that the quran came down both in written and memorised forms independent of each other.
6)These simple explanations are sufficient to prove that people who rely on false reports in hadith books and other sources to prove the quran was collected and written down after the prophet are seriously mistaken and such reports should not be taken seriously in light of such concrete proofs as stated here.
7)This does not mean there are no copying errors in the existing copies of the quran, there are but the nature of error is very simple ie humans make all sorts of errors due to absent mindedness in whatever they do. Mind always wonders off when people get tired or bored in doing something so they may end up writing something out of context or missing the whole line of text or add something from whatever is in their minds etc etc. Not only that people add their own notes in books for jogging their memory about some points they think are important to highlight for later referral. So those who were copying the quran suffered the same but nothing was done deliberately because for that one had to have a purpose in mind. What I mean is that if anyone wanted to change the quran deliberately then one ought to have some purpose in mind which his new quran could serve and in that case ummah could never have the same quranic text which it always have had to date.
8)So all allegations against the originality of the quran are mere misunderstanding of the scholars and nothing more unless they have ulterior motives to deliberately say falsehood against the originality of the quran but that only they know for themselves.
For ancient copies of the quran see following links.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nZpClvTaDo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsyeR77WT7g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPYHCUARxsw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2xKDbOU5wc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYAGtR7EdS0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41DtjRnx6Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H7If_rSl7E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m6BXstWgRU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RFchKei17o
9)A misunderstanding of scholars is that they take modification of written arabic as changes in text of the quran. They do not realise that when people face problems they look for solutions. It was found very difficult to read and write the quran the way the original arabic was written so they came up with idea of adding dots and diacritical marks to reduce dependency on memory. This is why when new ways of writing the very same text were discovered the number of hufaaz of the quran dropped from say 90% to a few percent. It is because people could now read actual message from the written arabic text except for a small number of things so dependency on hufaaz decreased with time and coming about of printing press. To explain the same point further as an example, if a word was management and it was written as MNGMNT and was modified to management due to development and progress in the language then scholars due to their ignorance took it as a change in the actual text of the quran, which is silly to say the least. We even today use sign for many things including road traffic signs instead of writing because they are easy to work with than standing and reading a sign while people blow their tops off shouting during busy road traffic. So it all depends on how a society organises and regulates itself and how easy it feels with what it does otherwise people modify things as it suits them better. So when things seemed difficult arabs modified the way of writing arabic and in doing so benefited from this modification. Such simple explanations are ignored by people or they remain ignorant about them yet they claim their research is of highest standard.
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