Prophet saw Musa praying in his grave

[Citizen X]

Chalo toum he bata dou kiya figures hain? Bhikhari nay kitni ahadith likhi aur kis zamanay may?

Religious Patwaran still running away ( as mentioned and expected )after getting bitched slapped six ways to Sunday and after being accept my challenge

 

[Citizen X]

He is a liar and knows it too. Proved it over and over again. And he can't back this numbers up. Not now. Not ever. It's clear.
Obviously you can see it for yourself but have your reasons for not calling it out.

 

[Shimaz]

Ohhh I hear the footsteps of someone running away.

And your so called challenge is laughable at best, which proves your blind following ignorance of your own beloved hadith more than anything else because these figures are from your bhand moulvis and so called scholars and they widely accept it! lol

Just to shut you up which I know you wont and you'll make some other excuse and runaway but I'm feeling generous

“It has been narrated through two firm channels of transmission that Al-Bukhari said: ‘I extracted this book from 600,000 hadiths, and I compiled it over sixteen years, and I made it a plea for what lies between myself and Allah.” Source: (Narrated by al-Khatib, al-Jami’ li-Akhlaq alrawi 2:270-271

One of your greatest hadith scholars of all time Imam Al Nawawi said, “The totality of its hadiths are 7,275 with the repetitions and about 4,000 without.”
Source: (Volume 1 Hadith History & Principles-Gibril Fouad Haddad pg 105)

So these are wrong too?

AND if my math is correct take out 4000 from 7275 equals to 3275 actual hadith which he accepted from the 600,000 he collected, so what percentage is 3275 of 600000.

Any guesses hmmmmm ? ..........................That's 0.54% so your greatest of them all rejected 99.46% of all hadith.

Now I know you will squirm away like the coward you are or start your as expected interrogation. NO BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS ANSWER ME THIS FIRST!

And then claim some kind of moral high ground and runaway.

All roads lead to religious patwaris running away! lol

SO NOW ARE YOU READY TO ACCEPT MY CHALLENGE?

Oh - here comes the desi spiderman to the rescue of his boyfriend - yet again! Fine, i said. I’ll give them another chance for sake of sanity. And then i see what you’re really up here (and almost got away with it): You munkirs literally and shamelessly changed the word “rejected” to “forged” to prove yourself right. I mean how low can one fall in desperation - well i guess you showed us. Tell me how does it make you any different than the bhand molvi of your mohalla you keep reminding of every now and then?
So is this is like your godfather's "panama di raseedaan" part 2 or what?

Even for a second, if one accepts those impossible numbers for argument sake, what it means is that the man rejected vast majority of 99.xx% or ahadists he came to know of because he could not find an authentic chain of validation for those AND you stunted losers rephrased that research based “rejection” of hadith of his TO him “forging” the ahadit he collected in the book. I mean you literally acknowledge Bukhari rejecting alot of ahadits but end up calling it forging. No shit sherlock. That’s exactly how hadith are collected. Do you even know what rejected and what forged means? Do you even had a luxury of attending a taat school or what?

And just for the record, I tried to explain you munkirs in past too that rejecting a hadith is completely acceptable as long as its done on a case by case basis as in case of perhaps kitab ul fitn but rejecting all sunnah and hadith in one go like an offspring of your bhand molvis - that’s just Kafir like. Last time you schmucks were saying they literally “wrote” all the ahadits themselves and this time you are caught with your pants down injecting the word “forging” in place of “rejecting”.

This is what happens when you have an ego bigger than your brain and you write for winning arguments instead of learning or correcting your puny selves. You have no understanding of what actual research means. Gadhay you could have used secondary sources if you couldn't come up with a primary method of proving your BS.

Classic strawman!

So based on this jokery you clowns put up, what this means is that you do not even know at a most basic level how hadith collection took place and what a sanad or chain means in this context and Or why it is the single most crucial thing in hadith context irrespective of numbers. You're some dumb I ran into who wanna be taken seriously. In an alternate universe you must be a proving desperately universe is a lollypop you’re sucking on.

In conclusion, you both are proven liars and cowards, as well as classic strawman losers! I knew it! Now you proved it. Please go to hell!

What next? Now immediately speed dial your your boyfriend, wake him up, and go back to drawing board and come back with an answer that is acceptable on a research level - since you’re challenging an established research of 1400 years - you won’t be allowed to get away with mere word play trickery.

Assignment: You will need to prove that ahadith collected by the hadith collectors are all FORGED.

And get a dictionary if you do not what FORGED mean dumass!

 

[Shimaz]

And please stop grinning like a donk after every post. Do what is asked of you.

 

[Shimaz]

Chalo toum he bata dou kiya figures hain? Bhikhari nay kitni ahadith likhi aur kis zamanay may?

Work with your boy friend on your new assignment. Go on now.

 

[Shimaz]

Pervez was the only one who raised this at an academic level, unfortunately, he was severely condemned by the likes of Maududi and others and unfortunately it stifled Pervez's thinking and towards the end of his life intellectual fatigue set in and he back tracked on a few things. The same thing happened to Dr Ghulam Jilani Burq.
There are similar views held by a few modern Hanbali students but they haven't gone as far as rejecting the hadith outright, although, they criticise Bukhari severely but instead rely on Mawatta Imam Malik.
Due to the fear from the extremest Pervez was guarded on giving clear view on salat etc. From your reading and research what is suggested as a mean of connecting to Allah if not namaz? Any thoughts?

He rejects SALAT, the whole concept of it when the Quran itself talks of it clearly:

Surah Al-Furqan (25:64-65): "And those who spend [part of] the night to their Lord prostrating and standing [in prayer] and those who say, 'Our Lord, avert from us the punishment of Hell. Indeed, its punishment is ever adhering."

For him, Salat could be counting fairies in the sky or playing lego. Or he can come clean on his beliefs what islam is to him. I asked him long ago. Never got an answer.

 

[Shimaz]

TBH honest I'm not a fan of Parvez at all. I've heard his lectures and being able to speak some Arabic the weird translations he has done of the Quran really don't gel well with me. But I would say he had the right idea, but went a bit too far with them

And I'm no scholar or anything, just avg joe. I would suggest just read the Quran with proper understanding what salah in the Quran actually means, he's a bit harsh because he's been dealing with religious patwaris for a decade now, so his patience is a bit thin lol But he means well.

Here are three videos of a much more knowledgeable friend of mine on the subject.

Oh you found your bhand molvi after all. good for you. At least that solves the mystery why you hate the others ones so much lol...

well it was enough to listen for a minute and call out his lies. He said quran does not talk of prostration and standing... where in fact the surah furqan clearly talks of it. in black and white:

Surah Al-Furqan (25:64-65): "And those who spend [part of] the night to their Lord prostrating and standing [in prayer] and those who say, 'Our Lord, avert from us the punishment of Hell. Indeed, its punishment is ever adhering."

Oopss...caught you spreading lies again donk. Give me a stupid grin.

 

[NailaFirdous]

He rejects SALAT, the whole concept of it when the Quran itself talks of it clearly:

Surah Al-Furqan (25:64-65): "And those who spend [part of] the night to their Lord prostrating and standing [in prayer] and those who say, 'Our Lord, avert from us the punishment of Hell. Indeed, its punishment is ever adhering."

For him, Salat could be counting fairies in the sky or playing lego. Or he can come clean on his beliefs what islam is to him. I asked him long ago. Never got an answer.

Yes you are right the concept of Ibada is mentioned in many parts of the Quran and the way we perform prayer is the sunnah of the prophet (saw). The discussion here is not about praying to Allah but about the 5 daily prayers which is not mentioned in the Quran and also the word salat which is translated to mean namaz which is not what it means.

 

[Shimaz]

Yes you are right the concept of Ibada is mentioned in many parts of the Quran and the way we perform prayer is the sunnah of the prophet (saw). The discussion here is not about praying to Allah but about the 5 daily prayers which is not mentioned in the Quran and also the word salat which is translated to mean namaz which is not what it means.

Well that's like saying Why shams is called suraj in urdu.

Of course that's a lingual issue. that's basic common sense. but no one has issue with it because performing salat is difficult. calling suraj shams harms nothing.

The quran talks of salat every now and then. It even drops some details on how it's to be done and that's a physical act, not an imaginary thing as munkireen e hadith do. The problem is not hadith itself for them, problem is how to reinvent islam one in which you can minus all the concepts of salat, ramadan, zakat etc and bring in concepts of lgbt, interest, haram, whatnot. Because there's restrictions in islam. hence a lite version is sought. And to do just that, sunnah and hadith and basic concept of islam must be rejected in whole by the munkirs. This is the entire issue here.

P.S: Quran also talks of timing of namaz/ salat. If you want i can drop direct references to you.

For example in surah isra:
https://quran.com/17?startingVerse=78

Point is, if you want to be misguided you will cherry pick verses from here there then force yourself to be lost in translation and other things like the munkirs do intentionally and then add lies on top of it like that molvi he pasted video of did where in fact surah furqan clearly debunk that. i'm sure he'll have a 1000 exuses to it too.

if you want to be guided you'll read quran with context because things are spread out in quran and allah say he tells things in quran in different ways to make it easy.

As it's said:

“jo aana chaho hazar rastey, na aana chaho to uzr hazaron.........'​

your choice eventually. And every choice has consequences. At least one shouldn't lie his her way out of it.

 

[Shimaz]

This is exactly where youtube has its drawbacks of giving every jobless tom dick and harry airtime and fun part is most of them even earn from it.

And this is exactly the kind of videos munkir muslims are making because they intentionally want to be misguided because islam is too hard to be followed by them. Now they seek a lite version and this is just the start they need by attacking core concepts of islam werna daal galti nahi in ki. if you ask him he'll say he does not believe in salah, or any other concepts of islam and never prays except that he turns upside down every night like spiderman and calls it a prayer because it's not written in quran it is not prayer. I tell you these cowards can only do this munkir blashphemy sitting on their keyboard somewhere.

Not just that. If you think this is the only kind of munkirs, you'd be so wrong. The market is full of every damn flavour. There are those who reject the quran itself to start with cooking up exactly same idiotic excuses that it was written by prophet SAW (naozubillah).

The problem here is as explained earlier is islam being a societal problem for them. They need it desperately defaced with all their haram topis included so they get to retain their muslim tags in their families but still enjoy a kafir-like life. They never read the quran in context, accept it, or follow it except what suits them. They attack islam all day and night but do not even have courage to define what it is to them. That's how you know they're nothing but cons.

This is exactly how sects were formed because of jahil people like these who refused to follow islam in letter and spirit and invented their own inventions in it.

Problem is they haven't quite figured out the major senseless gaps in their idiotic cult yet. So all they're left with is donk grins, fabricating the facts, or better yet - plain old lying.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Work with your boy friend on your new assignment. Go on now.

But the gay like you should know how much ahadith he wrote. Don't you worship and follow Bhikhari as your mentor?
By the way, you still haven't responded to my question concerning Gabriel being an angel or the Namaz.
Why are you running away?

 

[Citizen X]

Oh - here comes the desi spiderman to the rescue of his boyfriend - yet again! Fine, i said. I’ll give them another chance for sake of sanity. And then i see what you’re really up here (and almost got away with it): You munkirs literally and shamelessly changed the word “rejected” to “forged” to prove yourself right. I mean how low can one fall in desperation - well i guess you showed us. Tell me how does it make you any different than the bhand molvi of your mohalla you keep reminding of every now and then?
So is this is like your godfather's "panama di raseedaan" part 2 or what?

Even for a second, if one accepts those impossible numbers for argument sake, what it means is that the man rejected vast majority of 99.xx% or ahadists he came to know of because he could not find an authentic chain of validation for those AND you stunted losers rephrased that research based “rejection” of hadith of his TO him “forging” the ahadit he collected in the book. I mean you literally acknowledge Bukhari rejecting alot of ahadits but end up calling it forging. No shit sherlock. That’s exactly how hadith are collected. Do you even know what rejected and what forged means? Do you even had a luxury of attending a taat school or what?

And just for the record, I tried to explain you munkirs in past too that rejecting a hadith is completely acceptable as long as its done on a case by case basis as in case of perhaps kitab ul fitn but rejecting all sunnah and hadith in one go like an offspring of your bhand molvis - that’s just Kafir like. Last time you schmucks were saying they literally “wrote” all the ahadits themselves and this time you are caught with your pants down injecting the word “forging” in place of “rejecting”.

This is what happens when you have an ego bigger than your brain and you write for winning arguments instead of learning or correcting your puny selves. You have no understanding of what actual research means. Gadhay you could have used secondary sources if you couldn't come up with a primary method of proving your BS.

Classic strawman!

So based on this jokery you clowns put up, what this means is that you do not even know at a most basic level how hadith collection took place and what a sanad or chain means in this context and Or why it is the single most crucial thing in hadith context irrespective of numbers. You're some dumb I ran into who wanna be taken seriously. In an alternate universe you must be a proving desperately universe is a lollypop you’re sucking on.

In conclusion, you both are proven liars and cowards, as well as classic strawman losers! I knew it! Now you proved it. Please go to hell!

What next? Now immediately speed dial your your boyfriend, wake him up, and go back to drawing board and come back with an answer that is acceptable on a research level - since you’re challenging an established research of 1400 years - you won’t be allowed to get away with mere word play trickery.

Assignment: You will need to prove that ahadith collected by the hadith collectors are all FORGED.

And get a dictionary if you do not what FORGED mean dumass!

Just as I had predicted!

Now I know you will squirm away like the coward you are or start your as expected interrogation. NO BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS ANSWER ME THIS FIRST!

And then claim some kind of moral high ground and runaway.

All roads lead to religious patwaris running away!

First of all if it was anyone else who had even an ounce of shame and dignity left he/she would not comeback here again speciallyu after being bitched slapped silly six ways to sunday and being humiliated so badly, but of course it's you and you have no connection to anything called shame or diginity.

Anyways since I'm feeling generous and it gives me also another chance to show what outright liar you are, you cowardly lying hypocrite mushrik patwaran, I give you ONE LAST CHANCE.

Same challenge as before, but I add another condition, fulfil either one of them and I will keep my end but if you can't you have to do what the challenge says.

The additional condition is find me one place where I said the hadith were forged? Just one, can't be that hard because you pulled your hair out in that never ending senseless rambling on about this one point previous.

And in case you forgot what the original challenge was, let me refresh your short memory

You ....... pick and choose from quran what suits you.

Prove this and I will publicly admit I was wrong and all hadith are correct, you are correct, also delete my account and leave this forum for good.

And if you can't then you will do the same.

Challenge accepted?

Oh I can already hear the bovine excrement producing machine starting to turn over, won't be long before its going at full strength!!!!

 

[Citizen X]

And please stop grinning like a donk after every post. Do what is asked of you.

 

[Citizen X]

This is exactly where youtube has its drawbacks of giving every jobless tom dick and harry airtime and fun part is most of them even earn from it.

Just for public information. Yasir is a friend of mine, a very wealthy business man who trades in precious metals and probably makes more money in a day than your 10 generations have earned combined. Lives in the west and is a citizen there and spends most of his time travelling the world.

AND his Youtube channel is not even monetized. So he makes $0 from all his social media accounts

As always the lying religious patwaran just making up more lies and slandering others without knowing and iota of the truth.

 

[Shimaz]

Just as I had predicted!


First of all if it was anyone else who had even an ounce of shame and dignity left he/she would not comeback here again speciallyu after being bitched slapped silly six ways to sunday and being humiliated so badly, but of course it's you and you have no connection to anything called shame or diginity.

Anyways since I'm feeling generous and it gives me also another chance to show what outright liar you are, you cowardly lying hypocrite mushrik patwaran, I give you ONE LAST CHANCE.

Same challenge as before, but I add another condition, fulfil either one of them and I will keep my end but if you can't you have to do what the challenge says.

The additional condition is find me one place where I said the hadith were forged? Just one, can't be that hard because you pulled your hair out in that never ending senseless rambling on about this one point previous.

And in case you forgot what the original challenge was, let me refresh your short memory



Oh I can already hear the bovine excrement producing machine starting to turn over, won't be long before its going at full strength!!!!

Well if you have decided to retreat on your words (ohhh i never said they were forged...that's not what i meant mummy lol) then an apology from your side is in order. A real apology, not a FORGED one mind you...

Do that and i'll let you be jaali mullatay...

Also next time...think before you open your donkey kong.

Wake up Pak your bf just ditched you and your entire excel effort lol. Now it's up to you to prove All hadith collectors FORGED the hadiths. Ya yeh prove kar day ya teil daal lay khud pay aur jaga khali kar.

sala aik excel insaan ko dash dash dash bana deta hay lol...

bed kay neechay say nikal aa ab.

 

[NailaFirdous]

Well that's like saying Why shams is called suraj in urdu.

Of course that's a lingual issue. that's basic common sense. but no one has issue with it because performing salat is difficult. calling suraj shams harms nothing.

The quran talks of salat every now and then. It even drops some details on how it's to be done and that's a physical act, not an imaginary thing as munkireen e hadith do. The problem is not hadith itself for them, problem is how to reinvent islam one in which you can minus all the concepts of salat, ramadan, zakat etc and bring in concepts of lgbt, interest, haram, whatnot. Because there's restrictions in islam. hence a lite version is sought. And to do just that, sunnah and hadith and basic concept of islam must be rejected in whole by the munkirs. This is the entire issue here.

P.S: Quran also talks of timing of namaz/ salat. If you want i can drop direct references to you.

For example in surah isra:
https://quran.com/17?startingVerse=78

Point is, if you want to be misguided you will cherry pick verses from here there then force yourself to be lost in translation and other things like the munkirs do intentionally and then add lies on top of it like that molvi he pasted video of did where in fact surah furqan clearly debunk that. i'm sure he'll have a 1000 exuses to it too.

if you want to be guided you'll read quran with context because things are spread out in quran and allah say he tells things in quran in different ways to make it easy.

As it's said:

“jo aana chaho hazar rastey, na aana chaho to uzr hazaron.........'​

your choice eventually. And every choice has consequences. At least one shouldn't lie his her way out of it.

Thank you for the detail reply, it is appreciated.
I have been a student for Arabic language for several years now and the beauty of Arabic is that

Well that's like saying Why shams is called suraj in urdu.

Of course that's a lingual issue. that's basic common sense. but no one has issue with it because performing salat is difficult. calling suraj shams harms nothing.

The quran talks of salat every now and then. It even drops some details on how it's to be done and that's a physical act, not an imaginary thing as munkireen e hadith do. The problem is not hadith itself for them, problem is how to reinvent islam one in which you can minus all the concepts of salat, ramadan, zakat etc and bring in concepts of lgbt, interest, haram, whatnot. Because there's restrictions in islam. hence a lite version is sought. And to do just that, sunnah and hadith and basic concept of islam must be rejected in whole by the munkirs. This is the entire issue here.

P.S: Quran also talks of timing of namaz/ salat. If you want i can drop direct references to you.

For example in surah isra:
https://quran.com/17?startingVerse=78

Point is, if you want to be misguided you will cherry pick verses from here there then force yourself to be lost in translation and other things like the munkirs do intentionally and then add lies on top of it like that molvi he pasted video of did where in fact surah furqan clearly debunk that. i'm sure he'll have a 1000 exuses to it too.

if you want to be guided you'll read quran with context because things are spread out in quran and allah say he tells things in quran in different ways to make it easy.

As it's said:

“jo aana chaho hazar rastey, na aana chaho to uzr hazaron.........'​

your choice eventually. And every choice has consequences. At least one shouldn't lie his her way out of it.

Your analogy is not correct, I am a student of Arabic language and I can tell you that salat does not mean namaaz as we know it, please look at the dictionaries.
Praying to Allah is part of the fundamental belief in Allah and as believers we should be constantly praying to Allah in our actions and spirit.
The debate we have been having here is that of hadith and the authenticity of hadith, while the Quran's living accuracy is guaranteed by the Quran itself (of course Allah) there is no such guarantee of hadith.

All the 6 hadith books have been complied by people from outside Hijaz and well over 200 years after Hijrah that is why there are questions marks on their accuracy, in fact you will find that there are many different versions of Bukhari itself and it was altered many times in the history depending whose political narrative it suited at the time. These are undeniable facts which sunni scholars often debate, remember before the invent of printing press and before it was adopted by the Muslims, there were known number of copies of Hadith books in the world, for any ruler to change these books according to their whims and political gains was not only very easily done but was widely known.

The only text that could not not be altered was the Quran because so many people had memorised the Quran by heart, however, the corrupt rulers did ask clergymen to promote different meanings of certain words. In the recent past this is exactly what was done by Ghulam Ahmed Mirza who promoted certain interpretations of many Quranic verses to suit his narrative. Even now a days certain religious political parties are saying that if you become their members then you are guaranteed paradise etc.

Allah asks us again and again in the Quran to refelct on the verses so that we can be guided and whilst doing that even if someone comes up with an understanding which may seem outrageous and a complete shift from the norm then it doesn't mean that it should be mocked, one can choose not to accept or give counter argument. Allah is the protector of the Quran and Islam irrespective of what we may conclude. We are followers of Allah's deen and not protectors, He is sufficent for the protection.

All debates/discussions must be done in a respectable manner and at worst we should agree to disagree. Allah knows best.

 

[Shimaz]

Just for public information. Yasir is a friend of mine, a very wealthy business man who trades in precious metals and probably makes more money in a day than your 10 generations have earned combined. Lives in the west and is a citizen there and spends most of his time travelling the world.

AND his Youtube channel is not even monetized. So he makes $0 from all his social media accounts

As always the lying religious patwaran just making up more lies and slandering others without knowing and iota of the truth.

Oh man...he lives in the west...tu tau yahi sun k lait gya ho ga us kay agay..

that explains a lot.

Acha bata itni aag kyun lag gaey...all i did was to just debunked that jaali peer of yours with a simple ayat from quran. Evidence does feel like a slap now doesn't it.

Pretty sure if i go on, there's a gap every now and then.

aya bara.."main quran follow karta hon".

chal nikal.

 

[Citizen X]

Well if you have decided to retreat on your words (ohhh i never said they were forged...that's not what i meant mummy lol) then an apology from your side is in order. A real apology, not a FORGED one mind you...

Do that and i'll let you be jaali mullatay...

Also next time...think before you open your donkey kong.

Wake up Pak your bf just ditched you and your entire excel effort lol. Now it's up to you to prove All hadith collectors FORGED the hadiths. Ya yeh prove kar day ya teil daal lay khud pay aur jaga khali kar.

sala aik excel insaan ko dash dash dash bana deta hay lol...

bed kay neechay say nikal aa ab.

You are actually more moronic, shameless and pathetic that I initially thought. Quite an achievement I must say. You must think everyone is as moronic as you are!

You transcribed an entire novel of how deceptive mean and evil I was was ( lol ) by "rephrasing" the word rejected to forged

AND you stunted losers rephrased that research based “rejection” of hadith of his TO him “forging” the ahadit he collected in the book.

And now in the very next post after being bitched slapped and humiliated again and being your typical cowardly lying hypocrite patwari self start bitching about

that's not what i meant

Beghairti ki bhi hudd hoti hai yaar

Another coward who when caught with his dhoti down while flinging lies, running away....AGAIN!

Bhaag Shimu Singh Bhaaag!

 

[Wake up Pak]

Well if you have decided to retreat on your words (ohhh i never said they were forged...that's not what i meant mummy lol) then an apology from your side is in order. A real apology, not a FORGED one mind you...

Do that and i'll let you be jaali mullatay...

Also next time...think before you open your donkey kong.

Wake up Pak your bf just ditched you and your entire excel effort lol. Now it's up to you to prove All hadith collectors FORGED the hadiths. Ya yeh prove kar day ya teil daal lay khud pay aur jaga khali kar.

sala aik excel insaan ko dash dash dash bana deta hay lol...

bed kay neechay say nikal aa ab.

Mr. gay lord, here is a link for your ignorance. Hope you will be able to tell me where does in the Quran says that Gabriel is an angel. You do perform Namaz, don't you?
Come out from under Bhikhari's bed now, it's safe.

Experts have estimated the number of full-isnad narrations in the Sahih at 7,563, with the number reducing to around 2,600 without consideration of repetitions or different versions of the same hadith. Bukhari chose these narrations from a collection of 600,000 narrations he had collected over 16 years.

Sahih al-Bukhari - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Now go sue Wikipedia, or keep sucking Bhikhari.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Bhaag Shimu Singh Bhaaag!