News Beat 13th April 2012 - Imran Khan

[InsafianPTI]

Re: News Beat 13th April 2012 - Imran Khan Special Interview

Judiciary and other watch dogs mostly take actions when 'people' affected raise alarm. The funds will be distibuted locally, if anyone is not working according to the expectations the local system should be such that complains of any corruptions are dealt with locally without them being a national issue.

dil ke khush rukhney ko imi ke supportrs.. ye khayal acha hia.....

keep living in yr self rightoes thinking and follow yr godly man whose every word is divine to u guys...

IT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE THAT PPL MAKE CHECK AND BALANCE...

judiciary and otehr watchdogs make check and balance.. NOT THE PEOPLE

 

[Zoaib]

Re: News Beat 13th April 2012 - Imran Khan Special Interview

yes he gave a very simplest answer, and i had been thinking about it too since this issue had been discussed in media.
So I could think of few things:
first, to an extant his answer is right, on lower leverl, councils etc where local people will get involved there is no chance of this scale of corruption what we see today.

secondly for this plan party has done survay and research etc to estimate cost etc, which is already very high, i don't think they want to scare people with building more institutes on the very beginning (although police and judiciary is part of the plan, but on later stage this should be done and it will be inevitable), another problem is if all these people on local level would be new in thisn 'business' they will need guidance on how to and wherer to spend money (their training etc, and again this will take time and there needs to be a system for this too, now media hasn't picked it up I have just thought of it). We need to work all these things out, I think once the system starts these things including accountability will become the requirement anyway sooner or later. By the way what accountability institutes did Musharraf built(or he plans to built in case he gets any sort of power, i don't think anyone knows about any of his plans)??? I know the Raja guy (whose family thinks they are super family in our area) sent his women around to ask for vote but then we never saw any of them after he became Nazim (and that was Musharraf's time) ;).
The third problem why he didn't go in much detail is that he is trying to convince Qabaili and conservative people that this system is same as their Jirga system, I think this way it will be easily emposed on all over the pakistan including Fata etc. I don't think they will like it if he imposes and accountability bureau on them, I think in this case its clever of him not to start this at this stage to make it equally popular every where.

and the last bthing, pti has said this wasn't the final version of it anyway, press conference was meant to start a debate on it.

Just one thing I want to add here. You said about training, Jahangir Tareen mentioned it during the Press Conference that the government will conduct such programs at the village level to guide them and advise them how to go about things properly and not get influenced by those having vested interests (at least initially). This is what is meant by Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) that are mentioned in their slides as well.

 

[nomishah]

Khan Rocks.

 

[InsafianPTI]

Re: News Beat 13th April 2012 - Imran Khan Special Interview

THanks, i think i need to look into the details of SOPs to see all of its working criteria,
I don't understand why IK didn't mkention this when asked about it repeatedly, even that pti women in Talat's show didn't even mention this when asked about details.
Its very usual for IK to come for interviews without any preparation but he should and all the others should do so as well.
Its very important to explain the project well to avoid any negative impression about it.

Just one thing I want to add here. You said about training, Jahangir Tareen mentioned it during the Press Conference that the government will conduct such programs at the village level to guide them and advise them how to go about things properly and not get influenced by those having vested interests (at least initially). This is what is meant by Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) that are mentioned in their slides as well.

 

[Zoaib]

Re: News Beat 13th April 2012 - Imran Khan Special Interview

THanks, i think i need to look into the details of SOPs to see all of its working criteria,
I don't understand why IK didn't mkention this when asked about it repeatedly, even that pti women in Talat's show didn't even mention this when asked about details.
Its very usual for IK to come for interviews without any preparation but he should and all the others should do so as well.
Its very important to explain the project well to avoid any negative impression about it.

An interview is not really enough time to explain everything in detail. So he just mentioned the basic principle that at the lowest level the people can keep effective watch on the funds utilization especially when the funds would be given to their directly elected village council. This was a lesson learnt during the revolutionary success of the Orangi Pilot Project and other observations even during the time of Musharraf's local government system. What went wrong in that system was (and which was the source of corruption) was that the money was given to "indirectly elected" district nazims, rather than the directly elected Union Council. So there was a lot of corruption in the district Nazims, but as soon as the money reached the UC's, there was a lot of pressure from the people of the area for their work, and so it became very difficult for the directly elected UC to indulge in any MASSIVE corruption. So at the village level (lower than the UC) it will be even more difficult to do so...

I recommend you to watch the seminar presentation by Jahangir Tareen and IK himself. It's long, but explains everything nicely and also some of the media men asked very relevant questions and the PTI team gave good answers to them.

 

[adnan_younus]

Re: News Beat 13th April 2012 - Imran Khan Special Interview

arey maire chanda.... chaahey jitnee bhee decentralization kerlo.. its not linked with corruption.. its linked to administration and empowerment... corruption can only be removed or checked upon by watchdogs and police and judges.... PERIOD.. admit it imran talks stupid sometimes....

if imran said.. look decentraliztion cannot remove corruption.. for corruption we have to strengthen and speed up judicial system, police etc.... then it wud make sense..

but saying ppl are check and balance.. NO SIR... no where ppl are teh check and balance.. not in UK even... the thing tat stops corruption is because ppl are consious the judicual system will catch them if a complain is raised.... THATS IT...

I'm talking all logic but you seem not to understand. I said corruption will lessen and transparency increase if you empower people at the lowest level and provide funds directly to the institutions there. Who said that you don't need third party and other "watchdogs" to check on corruption, they will still be there and will be available to everyone and nobody's saying you don't strengthen that. In fact, you'll see all of that when PTI unveils their reforms in the judicial process. But as a principle, decentralization makes it easier for the local residents to ensure transparency and accountability in the utilization of funds as they have easy access and can put pressure at the local level (because they also have stakes in the utilization of funds for their areas).

I hope you understand this simple concept as I really don't know what to say. :)

 

[adnan_younus]

Re: News Beat 13th April 2012 - Imran Khan Special Interview

jeee... only that alaram and speedy justice removes corruption... no matter how many ppl u involve.. iif there is no effective and speedy justice and efective police.... CORRUPTION WILL NOT BE REMOVED...

no matter if its local government or not... corruption is only removed by speedy justice...

Judiciary and other watch dogs mostly take actions when 'people' affected raise alarm. The funds will be distibuted locally, if anyone is not working according to the expectations the local system should be such that complains of any corruptions are dealt with locally without them being a national issue.

 

[Zoaib]

Re: News Beat 13th April 2012 - Imran Khan Special Interview

arey maire chanda.... chaahey jitnee bhee decentralization kerlo.. its not linked with corruption.. its linked to administration and empowerment... corruption can only be removed or checked upon by watchdogs and police and judges.... PERIOD.. admit it imran talks stupid sometimes....

if imran said.. look decentraliztion cannot remove corruption.. for corruption we have to strengthen and speed up judicial system, police etc.... then it wud make sense..

but saying ppl are check and balance.. NO SIR... no where ppl are teh check and balance.. not in UK even... the thing tat stops corruption is because ppl are consious the judicual system will catch them if a complain is raised.... THATS IT...

You're talking about catching corruption when it happens. I'm talking about preventing it in the first place. E.g. at this point if about Rs 100 are allocated in the budget, only about 20 reach the lowest level (the rest gets eaten along the way on all levels). If you directly hand over the funds to the LOWEST level, at least that "corruption" will not happen. Plus, again at the lowest level it is VERY difficult for a directly elected Village Council to commit much corruption because the people at that level hold them accountable (something which you're finding hard to understand for some reason). You don't see this in the UK because there is nothing to see. It is an inherent feature of decentralized spending. Of course if some corruption happens then, the judicial process, law enforcement agencies will handle it. But decentralization will remove opportunities for corruption...

And I rest my case now. I don't think we're going anywhere with this. To each his own then...:)

 

[Tabish]

Dear Sir God Bless u, We Love u Imran

 

[mr.pti]

In Norway every one check who pays what taxes. Norwegain tax system is based on common person can expose corruption and they are eyes for goverment. So what Imran Khan saying common person are check balance for corruption. They system he is saying is same as here in Norway, Sweden, Danmark etc which are best countries to live in.And this system is same as Hazrat Omar had the real Islamic country.

 

[InsafianPTI]

Re: News Beat 13th April 2012 - Imran Khan Special Interview

jeee... only that alaram and speedy justice removes corruption... no matter how many ppl u involve.. iif there is no effective and speedy justice and efective police.... CORRUPTION WILL NOT BE REMOVED...

no matter if its local government or not... corruption is only removed by speedy justice...

well you are really confused, aren't you. Now here yuu say this system has got nothing to do with corruption (it will not help eliminate corruption etc) but u are the one who talked about corruption while he was simply explaining this system, so did this anchor,
So if u think this system has got nothing to do with corruption and only judiciary is the answer then why ask, why mix two things together.
U are the one who is being over simplistic, not him!and No i don't agree that if local people are involved it will not help reduce corruption.

 

[adnan_younus]

Re: News Beat 13th April 2012 - Imran Khan Special Interview

arey maire bhayee... my view is very straight.... ill explain it in simplest way ...
Q asked by anchor - Musharraf also devolved power; but that didnt remove corruption; how will yr system remove corruption?

Immis answer: since we are devolving power ppl will be the check and balance...(STYOOOPID ANSWER)

I think answer is: Corruption is a separate issue which needs to be addressed at all level regardless if the system is centralized or devolved at grass root level; here we are talking to give power to peole right at teh lowest level so they can administer them selves...... to tackle corruption it will be the same methodlogy which will be used to tackle corruption in police, taxation custom and excise and dutyetc..... so if musharraf local govt system didnt remove corruption ... tat doenst mean the systenm was incorrect...it was because tehre was not effective body keeping teh check and balance on that with speedy justice.... we are adressing a different probelms in musharrafs system by taking it one step forward and devolving it further....

well you are really confused, aren't you. Now here yuu say this system has got nothing to do with corruption (it will not help eliminate corruption etc) but u are the one who talked about corruption while he was simply explaining this system, so did this anchor,
So if u think this system has got nothing to do with corruption and only judiciary is the answer then why ask, why mix two things together.
U are the one who is being over simplistic, not him!and No i don't agree that if local people are involved it will not help reduce corruption.

 

[adnan_younus]

Re: News Beat 13th April 2012 - Imran Khan Special Interview

Im only disagreeeign with imrans steatement saying "people are the check and balance".. They are not .... Institutions are check and balance on corruption not people....

you're talking about catching corruption when it happens. I'm talking about preventing it in the first place. E.g. At this point if about rs 100 are allocated in the budget, only about 20 reach the lowest level (the rest gets eaten along the way on all levels). If you directly hand over the funds to the lowest level, at least that "corruption" will not happen. Plus, again at the lowest level it is very difficult for a directly elected village council to commit much corruption because the people at that level hold them accountable (something which you're finding hard to understand for some reason). You don't see this in the uk because there is nothing to see. It is an inherent feature of decentralized spending. Of course if some corruption happens then, the judicial process, law enforcement agencies will handle it. But decentralization will remove opportunities for corruption...

And i rest my case now. I don't think we're going anywhere with this. To each his own then...:)