Nawaz Sharif the Biggest Crook(video from 2007)

[Machar]

27 Nov 2007

what a 2 face plunker

 

[Paki1]

Re: Nawaz Sharif Biggest Croock in Pakistann History

Does NS is worst then Mushraf and Bashar al-Assad.? Pls comment.

 

[anyie1]

Re: Nawaz Sharif Biggest Croock in Pakistann History

if people still don't understand his hypocrisy and disloyalty with the country then God is going to help Pakistan

 

[GraanG2]

What was that beep in the end...Samajhdar ke liyie ishara hi kafi hai.hahaha

 

[Usman Sadiq]

PTI Trolls sometimes become so pathetic that some rational people don't support PTI JUST to not join this gang of hooligans.

I remember following news those days, bit by bit. Although this has been discussed many times, and I dont expect anything except abusive criticism and personal ridicule from PTI-ers, here are my observations:

1: PML-N didnt say they were boycotting no matter what. They tried to convince PPP, it did not work. THEY HAD ALWAYS offered a conditional boycott, EXACTLY the same as Imran announced HERE ON PTI site:
http://insaf.pk/News/tabid/60/artic...reek-e-Insaf-calls-for-elections-boycott.aspx

"He said he had spoken to other senior opposition figures on organizing a boycott, although he admitted he would have to reconsider his options if they could not agree on a unified line"

2: Imran was not a kid. He MADE his own decision and suffered the consequences for it. Imran and PTI congratulated PML-N and PPP after elections.
3: PTI DID not raise the boycott question during 2008, or 2009. Can anyone show any interview where PTI complained for it during 2007, 2008 or 2009?
4: If fighting elections was SUCH a crime, why is there a blog on PTI website asking PTI supporters whether this decision was right or wrong?

Lastly, IF YOU HATE NAWAZ SHARIF's FACE, IT IS OK. If you are in love with the hot personality of Imran Khan, it is ok. You don't have to wrap arguments and reasons around it.

PS: PTI supporters, I normally don't read your replies, until they are purely rational, non-personal and written in readable English.

 

[Machar]

PTI Trolls sometimes become so pathetic that some rational people don't support PTI JUST to not join this gang of hooligans.



I remember following news those days, bit by bit. Although this has been discussed many times, and I dont expect anything except abusive criticism and personal ridicule from PTI-ers, here are my observations:

1: PML-N didnt say they were boycotting no matter what. They tried to convince PPP, it did not work. THEY HAD ALWAYS offered a conditional boycott, EXACTLY the same as Imran announced HERE ON PTI site:
http://insaf.pk/News/tabid/60/artic...reek-e-Insaf-calls-for-elections-boycott.aspx

"He said he had spoken to other senior opposition figures on organizing a boycott, although he admitted he would have to reconsider his options if they could not agree on a unified line"

2: Imran was not a kid. He MADE his own decision and suffered the consequences for it. Imran and PTI congratulated PML-N and PPP after elections.
3: PTI DID not raise the boycott question during 2008, or 2009. Can anyone show any interview where PTI complained for it during 2007, 2008 or 2009?
4: If fighting elections was SUCH a crime, why is there a blog on PTI website asking PTI supporters whether this decision was right or wrong?

Lastly, IF YOU HATE NAWAZ SHARIF's FACE, IT IS OK. If you are in love with the hot personality of Imran Khan, it is ok. You don't have to wrap arguments and reasons around it.

PS: PTI supporters, I normally don't read your replies, until they are purely rational, non-personal and written in readable English.

LAME AS FRESH GOAT... if u cant see then its not our problem...
hey big fella can u tell me the reasons why mr nawaz decided to do a uturn.. and take part in elections;)

 

[hamzabaloch]

Usman:

Better to see captial talk of 2 days ago..... where Javed Hashmi reject this claim, and said we all along with Mian shb decieded to bycott the election. Later Mian shb decieded to take part in election without consulting with any one.

 

[zhohaq]

Usman: First of all cut the snark buddy, you have not monopolized the use of the English language as yet. Proficiency in it should not be a source of pride. Its just a language like Urdu, Pushto or Punjabi, nothing to toot your horn about.

Your comments on PTI supporters are just adhominem attacks. The most abusive ppl on this forum by far are PML N supporters. Even in this thread your post is the most abrasive by far("Trolls","Gang of Hooligans" "Readable English")

Let me answer your questions:

1. PML N led APDM. All APDM parties boycotted the polls(JI, PKMAP,PTI, BNP) only PML N took part in it. Can you account for that or did PTI also through some elaborate conspiracy also made the other parties Boycott the polls to make PML N look bad in the long run?? Surely the Logical answer was that there was a common understanding between the parties and one party decided to dump the rest. JI Amir Qazi Hussain has confirmed IK version of events and so has JH. Your quote is without relevance ofcourse the decision to boycott was done with consultations between all APDM members.

2. It did no such thing as far as I know. Why would it congratulate anyone on polls it had boycotted. Please provide a link to a press release to that effect or accept you are a Bald faced liar.

3.A simple google search would have saved you the embarrassment here you go:
http://articles.timesofindia.indiat...kistan/27951254_1_pak-polls-jemima-imran-khan
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008\02\07\story_7-2-2008_pg7_36
The articles are from 07 and 08.
Here is IK at a "Boycott Election Rally" at Peshawar organized by the APDM. Feb 08
http://youtu.be/mPfQNvXSjrg Part 1
http://youtu.be/reZO1NVbLuc Part 2 0:10 onwards He expressly states APDM position on Boycotting the polls.


4.Unlike your PML N , PTI has a very active forum. Every major decision is polled and discussed on many forums. From ISF meetings, to provincial chapter meetings to CEC meeting which sometimes drags for days. The online forum has thousands of post and many topics are discused. Decision are then examined to see whethter they were correct or not. Its called "Democracy" LOOK IT UP. PTI decision arent taken by bunch of bald headed idiots in raiwand.

You are right on the last part. My family who once voted for PML-N now absolutely hates him. He has been thoroughly exposed, a spineless two face hypocrite who has been dancing to Zardaris tune for the last four years while the country burns. I absolutely hate him, and have no qualms about admitting that.

IK Zindabad, PTI Zindabad
Pakistan Paindabad

 

[Usman Sadiq]

It did no such thing as far as I know. Why would it congratulate anyone on polls it had boycotted. Please provide a link to a press release to that effect or accept you are a Bald faced liar.

LAHORE, Feb 19: Pakistan Tehrik-i-Insaaf Chairman Imran Khan has said election results are a referendum against President Pervez Musharraf and a clear indication that people have rejected the policies of Musharraf and his allies.

In a statement issued here on Tuesday, Khan said Musharraf should respect people’s mandate and resign immediately. He congratulated the democratic forces, which had been part of the opposition’s struggle for an independent judiciary, financially and administratively, autonomous election commission and free media. He said the mandate given to the Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz was the result of their stand on deposed judges. He said he hoped that all democratic parties elected to the parliament would support reinstatement of the judges.

Source:http://archives.dawn.com/2008/02/20/nat8.htm

Now sir, would you be man enough to accept that you are politically ill-informed and ignorant?

I can write a piece-by-piece reply to your comments, but I'll want to see I am debating against an objective mind WILLING to accept his mistake, before I enter an argument.

 

[zhohaq]

@usman: LOL well I do know that any further debate would be a considerable waste of my time.Instead of answering on any of the real issues you chose to hide behind semantics. Ok I will go along

Your Challenge was:

2: Imran was not a kid. He MADE his own decision and suffered the consequences for it. Imran and PTI congratulated PML-N and PPP after elections.

I will make the obvious assumption that you imply that IK congratulated the parties for their electoral success.

Your Proof: PTI Press Release Dated 19th February 2008(Please try to quote the Primary source in the Future):
​

http://insaf.pk/News/tabid/60/artic...a-refrendum-against-Musharraf-Imran-Khan.aspx

​

He congratulated the democratic forces who have been part of the opposition’s struggle for an independent judiciary, financially and administratively autonomous election commission and free media. He added that the mandate given to PML(N) is clearly because of their stance for the reinstatement of deposed judges. He said we expect all other democratic parties elected to the parliament to support reinstatement of the deposed judges

​

Mr. Imran khan said Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaaf will continue its struggle for the rule of law and that the institution of an independent judiciary, autonomous election commission and free media are established.

He Congratulated the democratic forces(Including the PML-N at the time) who had been part of the successful Lawyers movement for the success of their movement. And reminded PML-N electoral mandate was Only because of its role in the Lawyer movement. And then he and PTI had a reasonable expectation that PMLN would respect this mandate and immediately restore the judges.


He DID NOT congratulate PML N or PPP for their electoral success or participating in the elections, clearly two different things.

Again PTI will always give credit where its due, and support other parties correct position. Just like it even today supports PML N going to SC on Memogate. MQM stand on Raymond Davis issues and Drone strikes at the time. PPP government decision to block NATO supplies. PTI has never said PML N did not take part in the Lawyers movement. There is no use denying the fact. But it maintains that :
1. PML N deliberately misled its APDM partners taking part in the election and legitimising the NRO deal. It directed APDM partners to wait for them in Islamabad in the Long march and then under American pressure U turned from Gujrawla, without informing the APDM.
2. In light of WIKILEAKS cable its clear that PML N only took part for political mileage and its leaders (Shahbaz and Nawaz) were ready to kick out CJ after a face saving restoration. It was as usual not sincere
3. It supported Zardaris nomination as president and then protected PPP government for four year even when the NRO the basis of the government was thrown out by the courts.
4. Its NOT an opposition in any sense and has never behaved in that manner.


But why should we even go to this lengths discussing a vaguely worded Press Release.IK views just before the election are on record. Just five days before election day.
​

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008\02\13\story_13-2-2008_pg3_4

Vote Against Voting. Daily times 13 Febuary 2008
​

"To be sure, contesting the election would provide my party with a great opportunity to take issues to the people. In fact, my party’s support has been growing, with opinion polls now indicating that it is the second most popular in the frontier province — and gaining ground in every other province.
But elections by themselves don’t bring democracy. Zimbabwe’s president, Robert Mugabe, loves elections. Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has been holding elections for 27 years. Uzbekistan’s Islam Karimov has been in power for 30 years, and has just been “elected” to a fresh seven-year presidential term. Elections are meaningful only if they are perceived to be free and fair, which requires independent referees......

So it is a shock to us that the US State Department keeps talking about free and fair elections and abolishing the state of emergency, but without mentioning the reinstatement of the judges — including the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court — that Musharraf illegally dismissed. If the judges are not reinstated, how can there be free and fair elections? Who decides what is free and fair? Musharraf?

Unfortunately, most of the political parties have failed to stand up for the democratic process. Major parties like the Pakistan Muslim League (Nawaz) have decided to participate, following the lead of the late Benazir Bhutto’s People’s Party. And, of all the major parties that are contesting the election, only the PMLN is demanding the reinstatement of the judges."

All you bought with this semantic rigmarole is that I will remove the "bald faced" adjective and settle for the Liar bit.
PTI boycotted the elections condemned the other parties that took part, had an unrealistic expectation from PML N to stand by its word and try to restore the Judiciary immediately.

But do go ahead and Descend from the heavens and take part in a debate with us mere mortals,on the rest of the points. Surely there must be some reason you signed up to this forum. There are couple Wikileak cables I am itching to bring up....

​

 

[Sedqal]

Unlike your PML N , PTI has a very active forum. Every major decision is polled and discussed on many forums. From ISF meetings, to provincial chapter meetings to CEC meeting which sometimes drags for days. The online forum has thousands of post and many topics are discused. Decision are then examined to see whethter they were correct or not. Its called "Democracy" LOOK IT UP. PTI decision arent taken by bunch of bald headed idiots in raiwand.

It's great if PTI is involving members in their major decisions; But I find it hard to believe that members would agree upon making Shafqat Mehmood Information Secretary and specifically Shah Qureshi party Vice Chairman. Can you link the forum threads of PTI site where these options were discussed before being made?

 

[Sedqal]

He DID NOT congratulate PML N or PPP for their electoral success or participating in the elections, clearly two different things.

Here is what I found when I googled, check the bold part, I'm pretty sure its congratulations on electoral success (bigsmile)
(I'm not sure if it's complete you can check the party archives if they keep it online)

LAHORE
PAKISTAN Tehirk-e-Insaf (PTI) Chairman Imran Khan urged the new parliament not to take oath under the amended constitution while stating the PTI held reservations that both PPP and PML-N might renegade on the judiciary restoration issue under pressure from the US.

The PTI Chief was addressing a press conference at PTI central office here on Sunday after a two-day PTI central executive committee meeting. He was accompanied by PTI central secretary general Dr. Arif Alvi, central information secretary Omer Sarfaraz Cheema, Punjab chapter president Ahsan Rasheed and Amed Owais.

Speaking on the occasion, Imran maintained that if both the majority parties PPP and PML-N announced to take oath on the condition that first deposed Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry should be restored and President Pervez Musharraf should resign, then President Musharraf would step down in 48 hours. He asked the opposition camp to refrain from forming a government until the resignation of President. Imran congratulated both PML-N and PPP leadership on the huge victory in 2008 polls while expressing concern that US was influencing the joint declaration by PPP and PML-N to restore judiciary. He termed the statement by US Foreign Secretary an interference in the internal affairs of Pakistan and called upon PPP and PML-N to shun American dictation. “Both PPP and PML-N should stand their ground on the issue of judiciary since it is an issue of national concern,” Imran said. He said PTI had took a principled stand on the judiciary issue from its inception and the reinstatement of deposed judges was the top priority of his party. He linked the restoration of judiciary to strengthening of democratic values in the country while saying PTI would work to convince democratic forces for restoration of judges. The PTI will be an effective opposition even sitting outside the parliament, he said.

 

[zhohaq]

Here is what I found when I googled, check the bold part, I'm pretty sure its congratulations on electoral success ​

(bigsmile)

(I'm not sure if it's complete you can check the party archives if they keep it online)​

I think I have dwelled on this in some detail in the last post. I am quoting directly from the Press release after the election which is usually circulated after press conferences.

Its not hard to misconstrue "Democratic forces" to "PML - N and PPP" by a media person (wether maliciously or other wise is another matter). Note the story you posted is not a direct quote. I am offering the Direct Party position at the time via its press release. Which any reasonable person will agree should be the final word. Dated on the 18th Febuary post election day.

He congratulated the democratic forces who have been part of the opposition’s struggle for an independent judiciary, financially and administratively autonomous election commission and free media.

But the more pertinent point is why dwell on this tiny snippet from a random article when there is an entire article authored by IK on the issue(13th February Daily Times).

I can argue semantics all day and post a dozen other new stories from other outlets with slightly different wording. But does any of this have any point.Why avoid the more substansive discussion on the other points?????

 

[zhohaq]

It's great if PTI is involving members in their major decisions; But I find it hard to believe that members would agree upon making Shafqat Mehmood Information Secretary and specifically Shah Qureshi party Vice Chairman. Can you link the forum threads of PTI site where these options were discussed before being made?​

Both decision were made at the CEC. Any CEC member will acknowledge the fact. The CEC meetings have ISF members and members from all provincial branches and the Lawyer and Labor forums. I am not claiming that CEC are elected as yet or the party is a model of democracy, but its light years ahead of its competition given the amount of debate and discussion that goes into it.


And, Surely you are not suggesting that Members use an Internet Forum open to all to discuss upcoming political moves. Thats not how politics work my friend.

PML N Copy leage would have a field day, if it gained such beforehand insights.( At least now when it copies its obvious: SMS campaigns, Jalsa Style, Sasti Tandoor, Offering post to anyone showing signs of joining PTi etc)

But do take a while going through the forums you will be surprised how many things get picked up from its either in policy decsion, talking points, consensus etc. Some pretty sharp ppl contribute to it

 

[Usman Sadiq]

[MENTION=26526]zhohaq[/MENTION]: Your labyrinthe explanation did not work buddy. I wasn't even able to figure out what you were saying in your usual spaghetti logic and Alice-in-wonderland argument. IN YOUR FACE, Imran Khan congratulated PML-N and PPP on 19th Feb. One would clearly not CONGRATULATE them on restoration of judiciary on 19th Feb, since judges were still deposed. YOU JUST CAN NOT ADMIT THE OBSCENE TRUTH: Imran ciriticised elections until 18th Feb, and then started beating victory drums on 19th, chanting elections success slogans. You should rather concentrate on some other strengths than belaboring a lost point.

As for me, Nawaz Sharif COMMITTED a GRAVE CRIME when he endorsed Zia's martial law. Unlike you, I am not an infatuated kid, shy to criticise anyone and anybody. This is the reality I want you to wake up to: Your nature of PTI liking is romantic, my liking for PML-N is political and politic. If PML-N changes its position, I may be the first person to lambast it.

Since you can not even see the elephant in the room, I have little hope of any constructive debate. Yet, I have CONVINCING answers for readers, about every single point in our original debate, which follow:

1: PML-N never boycotted UNCONDITIONALLY. If someone has a link to show otherwise, I WILL BE HAPPY enough to accept my mistake right here.
2: In (almost) all of Imran Khan's interviews before 18th Feb, he wanted a complete boycott. PML-N on the other hand, wanted a boycott IF PPP wanted it. THERE WAS A CLEAR DIFFERENCE of policy between the two. PML-N pusued its policy, PTI pushed its own. When it came to facing consequences, PTI started spewing venom at PML-N instead of admitting that its decision was rash.
3: There is NO interview of Imran Khan or PTI during 2008 in which they criticised PML-N for betraying the boycott decision. So, PTI was betrayed in 2008, it goes silent for two years, and then suddenly discovers it was betrayed two years ago !

Why did PTI not bring up the issue of PML-N's betrayel on 19th Feb, instead of OPENLY congratulating PML-N?

As for the liar thing, my honor doesn't allow me to transcend to such shallow levels of allegations. Let's state the facts, and rest the decision upon readers.

 

[Usman Sadiq]

@usman: LOL well I do know that any further debate would be a considerable waste of my time.Instead of answering on any of the real issues you chose to hide behind semantics. Ok I will go along

Your Challenge was:

I will make the obvious assumption that you imply that IK congratulated the parties for their electoral success.

Your Proof: PTI Press Release Dated 19th February 2008(Please try to quote the Primary source in the Future):
​

http://insaf.pk/News/tabid/60/artic...a-refrendum-against-Musharraf-Imran-Khan.aspx

He Congratulated the democratic forces(Including the PML-N at the time) who had been part of the successful Lawyers movement for the success of their movement. And reminded PML-N electoral mandate was Only because of its role in the Lawyer movement. And then he and PTI had a reasonable expectation that PMLN would respect this mandate and immediately restore the judges.


He DID NOT congratulate PML N or PPP for their electoral success or participating in the elections, clearly two different things.

Again PTI will always give credit where its due, and support other parties correct position. Just like it even today supports PML N going to SC on Memogate. MQM stand on Raymond Davis issues and Drone strikes at the time. PPP government decision to block NATO supplies. PTI has never said PML N did not take part in the Lawyers movement. There is no use denying the fact. But it maintains that :

1. PML N deliberately misled its APDM partners taking part in the election and legitimising the NRO deal. It directed APDM partners to wait for them in Islamabad in the Long march and then under American pressure U turned from Gujrawla, without informing the APDM.

If he U-turned, he compromised on independence of judiciary, right?
So, is judiciary independent now? Yes or No? If it was a compromise, SC isnt independent. If SC is independent, it wasnt a compromise. I have never been able to figure out PTI's line on WHAT happened in Gujranwala, so please enlighten me. It is all confused under the rhetoric of U turn and America and so on.

This PML-N thing must be damn smart. It fools APDM in 2007, then fights elections, then fools them again in 2009? Is PTI a political party or a bunch of Kinder Garten kids?

2. In light of WIKILEAKS cable its clear that PML N only took part for political mileage and its leaders (Shahbaz and Nawaz) were ready to kick out CJ after a face saving restoration. It was as usual not sincere.

PPP had accused PML-N of wanting CJ Iftikhar because he was related to Rana Sana Ullah, and that he'd favor them. This allegation was tossed in by Musharraf's ministers for the first time. Shahbaz had showed willingness to let PPP restore the rest of judiciary if lawyers accept it.

Once again, it was Ambassador's understanding of PML-N's opinion. Still, if PML-N wanted it, it is CONDEMNABLE.

3. It supported Zardaris nomination as president and then protected PPP government for four year even when the NRO the basis of the government was thrown out by the courts.

Do you read newspapers? PML-N had its own candidate named Justice Saeed Uz Zaman Siddiqui. Only PML-N voted for it.
Haha so it should have overthrown government. PEOPLE of Pakistan elected them for 5 years, so on Khan sahib's wish, people's representatives can't be thrown out. EVEN IF ZARDARI and GILANI were disqualified, next PM and President would NOT be from PTI. Is PML-N responsible for the fact that people voted for PPP?
​

 

[Usman Sadiq]

Both decision were made at the CEC. Any CEC member will acknowledge the fact. The CEC meetings have ISF members and members from all provincial branches and the Lawyer and Labor forums. I am not claiming that CEC are elected as yet or the party is a model of democracy, but its light years ahead of its competition given the amount of debate and discussion that goes into it.


And, Surely you are not suggesting that Members use an Internet Forum open to all to discuss upcoming political moves. Thats not how politics work my friend.

This is PTI Sindh Vice President narrating how he was included in PTI:

"Later that night when we were sipping tea on Versace couches overlooking a large portrait of Jam Qaim Ali in his rather colourful Brioni suit with a Burberry shirt, PTI Sindh President Naeemul Haq sent him a text message telling him about his appointment and congratulating him. The official announcement had come at 5pm. "Didn't the provincial president of your party know about your appointment?" I asked. "Imran Bhai appointed me directly," he said. That signaled the strong personal control Khan exercises over his party."

That is democracy! PTI Sindh President is on CEC?

http://www.thefridaytimes.com/beta2/tft/article.php?issue=20110909&page=9.1

 

[Usman Sadiq]

[MENTION=26526]zhohaq[/MENTION]. Now that you didn't have an answer to 1) PTI Sindh Vice President saying he was included without knowledge of PTI Sindh President 2) PTI congratulated PML-N on 19th Feb, 2008, and then two years later, started scoring points on this dead, decayed issue of boycott, I would like you to either admit these two mistakes, or stay away from posts from mine and other people's posts who can make you mum with arguments.

Thank you!

 

[zhohaq]

@usman. i had my hopes up as you did build up the suspense but this is some seriously weak sauce lol. Let me against my better judgement humor this with a reply, Lets go one by one:

If he U-turned, he compromised on independence of judiciary, right?
So, is judiciary independent now? Yes or No? If it was a compromise, SC isnt independent. If SC is independent, it wasnt a compromise. I have never been able to figure out PTI's line on WHAT happened in Gujranwala, so please enlighten me. It is all confused under the rhetoric of U turn and America and so on.

Clearly you are quite pleased with erecting and attacking straw men, but clearly PTI does not have a problem with the Independent SC.That was never the issue.
It has a problem with N leage giving its APDM partners the run around for the second time. After taking part in rigged elections,PPP wanted to keep the Dogar court.The Lawyers movement and PTI's professional group and others relaunched the movement as it gained strength PML N joined. A reformed APDM decided a Long march to Islamabad. The specific plan was that PTI anf JI would stay in Islamabad and join the main Procession as it entered Islamabad. The Idea was a to topple the government by street power and have full restoration to SC, Free Election commision etc the same set of demands as APDM had before the elections.
This was Pakistans Tahrir square movement. However Uncle Kiyani told NS to go back close to Gujrnwala. This was the second time the Lawyer movement got stabbed in the back first being Aitizaz calling off the Dharna at the Parliament earlier.

Nawaz Sharif was not the only person leading the Long march.(Granted he had the biggest part and was quite popular back) He only joined after the Dogar Corts Disqulaified him and Governor Rule was imposed on Punjab.IK was leading one from Pindi.http://www.insaf.pk/News/tabid/60/a...-Kachehri-Chowk-Rawalpindi-on-16th-March.aspx
So was other APDM members Qazi, PKMAP and the various Lawyer bodies etc. Even without NS the Long march would have happened maybe a month or so latter but the public momentum was there.

How ever Nawaz Sharif was the only one who could stop the Long march which he did.

The long march which started with lot of fanfare and evoked phenomenal response from all segments of society ended on a somewhat disappointing note. Somehow high expectations were pinned on the much awaited and much hyped long march that it would not only succeed in reinstating the deposed judges but also dig the last nail in the coffin of Musharaf. The ones who were watching the grand show from the sidelines were equally disillusioned. The leaders of the legal fraternity that have been eulogised as heroes have come under scathing criticism. It is widely speculated that Zardari with the help of Nawaz and Aitzaz had a key role in winding up long march inconclusively.

The Longmarch could have changed Pakistan destiny and avoided this four year nightmare. I personally will never forgive NS for selling th movement out and his U turn.

Those who gained first hand knowledge of the happenings were astounded at the outpouring of affections by the people standing on the wayside in each town and city and along the Murree Road in Rawalpindi from where the caravan passed. Unmindful of scorching heat and humidity and sky rocketing prices, they showered rose petals and presented them drinks, cold water and eatables lavishly. The rich and poor stood together to welcome the long marchers and waived at them enthusiastically. The thrill and ecstasy of the people seen on 14 June was simply mind boggling and unexplainable. This kind of spirit is narrated by the pioneers from first generation who had experienced the turmoil of Partition.

They argue that having missed the bus, the lawyers would never be able to muster such a large gathering again because of erosion of credibility. They say that the organisers had either not planned the event in entirety or had not anticipated such a large assembly or had buckled under pressure. They opine that abrupt calling off of long march without achieving stated objectives has lifted the pressure against Musharraf and PPP led regime.

http://www.asiantribune.com/node/12357

Now to understand what happened that day we have to know what dealings got about behind the scenes which brings me to.

Once again, it was Ambassador's understanding of PML-N's opinion. Still, if PML-N wanted it, it is CONDEMNABLE.

Well everything is an "understanding of someones opinion". Either you are a sane reasonable person who believes like most of the world that WIKILEAKS are real Diplomatic cables that got leaked and has given a new insight at how the world works. Played a big part in the Arab spring OR you believe its a Zionist Conspiracy. If its the latter then I think we should stop as their is no use of the debate.

As these cables are official documents and not informal minutes. They are factual as major policy decision are based on it. Usually most meetings are recorded for official reasons and are archived. Most have to be claered by all official quoted in the cable and multiple departments. There is very little uncertainty involved.

I have read couple of hundred of these cables and they are fascinating and any one with interest in geopolitics should study them. They are an amazing insight into the working of Empire since the release of the Pentagon papers.

Last year DAWN ran a series baed on the cables I am listing the links which have to do with Long march.
http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/20/zardari-sharifs-political-battle.html
http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/20/shah...essured-to-intervene-in-political-system.html
http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/20/wikileaks-confirms-nobody-cares-about-you.html
http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/20/fallout-from-the-2009-long-march.html
http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/20/kayani-politicians-asked-us-to-intervene-in-zardari-sharifs-row.html
http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/20/shah...cj-removed-after-face-saving-restoration.html

The picture we get is that PML N were unwilling and insincere participators in the Lawyers movement:

KARACHI: Even as PML-N chief Nawaz Sharif was rallying street support by publicly refusing to back down from demands for the restoration of Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry in February and March 2009, the party was privately telling American diplomats that the future of the then-non-functional chief justice was up for negotiation.

“Shahbaz stated that following the restoration, the PML-N was prepared to end the issue and remove Chaudhry once and for all,” reported Lahore Consulate Principal Officer Bryan Hunt in a secret American diplomatic cable describing his meeting with the younger Sharif on March 14, 2009.“On the issue of former Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry, Shahbaz claimed that the PML-N was open to negotiation, provided that Chaudhry was symbolically restored.”The conversation took place just a day before Nawaz Sharif would join a lawyers’ long march in a dramatic public protest for the reinstatement of judges deposed by Gen Musharraf, a demand that President Zardari had been resisting. In private, however, a different story was being told.“Shahbaz stressed that his party could not afford the political humiliation of abandoning what had become a long-standing principle in favour of Chaudhry’s restoration,” Mr Hunt reported. “At the same time, Shahbaz claimed to understand that Chaudhry was a problematic jurist, whose powers would need to be carefully curtailed.”Shahbaz Sharif strategised that as a judge who had taken oath under Gen Musharraf’s first provisional constitutional order, Chaudhry could be removed – once “some sort of face-saving restoration” had been carried out – “by adopting legislation proposed in the Charter of Democracy that would ban all judges who had taken an oath under a PCO from serving.”A week earlier, in another meeting at the Lahore consulate, Shahbaz Sharif hadproposed an alternative solution: creating the Constitutional Court envisioned in the Charter of Democracy and ensuring that “it be made superior to the Supreme Court. Iftikhar Chaudhry’s restoration … would then have little measurable impact, as the Constitutional Court, staffed by appointees from both parties, could nullify his decisions.”Even before the restoration, Shahbaz Sharif confided, the PML-N leadership would agree to any constraints President Zardari might want placed on Chaudhry, “including curtailment of his powers to create judicial benches, removal of his suo motu jurisdiction, and/or establishment of a constitutional court as a check on the Supreme Court.”“Although Nawaz publicly has said Chaudhry’s restoration is also a red line,”commented US Ambassador Anne Patterson in a separate report, “no leader in Pakistan really wants an activist and unpredictable Chief Justice. … Nawaz emerges stronger in the public eye and retains the ‘high moral ground’ by defending the judiciary.”As late as January 22, in fact, PML-N leader Khawaja Saad Rafique had told Mr Hunt that a minimum requirement for saving the coalition with the PPP in Punjab was “full retirement of Chief Justice Hameed Dogar and appointment of Justice Sardar Raza in his place.” Chaudhry did not seem to have been a concern.But by March 2009 he had become the PML-N’s rallying cry, and the timing clearly had to do with political developments at the time: a February 25 Supreme Court decision had declared the Sharif brothers ineligible for office, and the president had imposed governor’s rule in Punjab.“Nawaz and Shahbaz Sharif told Principal Officer Lahore that the decision [to declare them ineligible to hold public office], which they claimed was entirely Zardari’s, was a declaration of war; they would … take their battle to the streets. Following the decision, PML-N certainly will participate in the lawyers’ march,” reported a February 2009 cable previously published in the media.“Before the Court ruling, ‘95 per cent of the party’ had opposed joining the lawyers’ March 16 sit-in because it might lead to violence,” Opposition Leader Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan revealed privately in a separate conversation at the US embassy.“Now, the party had little choice but to support them.”Cables referenced: WikiLeaks # 196903, 195758, 196939, 188203, 193807, 194540. All cables are available on Dawn.com.​

To summarise :
1.PML N was willing to negotiate CJ future with the Americans
2. They only joined Lawyers movement when Sharifs got Disqulaified and after Governor Rule.
3. They Stopped The Long March due to American and Military pressure without informing the APDM partners.
4. PML N can never ever be trusted.

This PML-N thing must be damn smart. It fools APDM in 2007, then fights elections, then fools them again in 2009? Is PTI a political party or a bunch of Kinder Garten kids?

I agree PTI was far too trusting of NS. But he being so googlo can fool alot of people. His Googloness made him PM twice lol.
PMLN Declared victory and took all the credit. PML N even went as far to say IK was "hiding: in Dubai. JI suffered a big humiliation the same day. PTI learnt its lesson never trust the G@njas. That is why PTI will never join the PML N in anything. The only reason I have spent to explain things is to show that when PTI says it will talk to all opposition parties except PML N there is a very good reason for it. They are not an opposition party by any means. I personally think they are worse then the PPP. At least PPP never claims to be non corrupt or pious, PML N suffer from alot of Munafiqat.

PML N the Prision shower theory of Politics i.e If you drop your soap they will screw you. And Screw Pakistan is exactly what they have done for the past 25 years, making Ittefaq the biggest conglomarate in the country and siphoning of Billions from the country while at the same time pretending to be a moral and upstanding party.

 

[zhohaq]

@usman

1) PTI Sindh Vice President saying he was included without knowledge of PTI Sindh President​

I will spend less time on this but clearly you have a terrible habit of replying without reading the post.

Both decision were made at the CEC. Any CEC member will acknowledge the fact.​

Note that I am referring to i.e SMQ joining & Omar Cheema being replaced by Shaqat Mehmood. The only reason I even say this is that IK has in interviews alluded to this fact.

And why all this overt concern for Omar Cheema by N leage people??. He is still very active in the party. Shafqat Mehmood was better suited for dealing with the N leage proparganda cell so he got appointed ON MERIT, even if IK and Omar Cheema have a closer relationship. He does not seem to have a problem with the decision.

AOA...I thank all my colleagues,well wishers, PTI media team and supporters for their encouragement,support and guidance. It has been an honour to serve the party since its inception 1996 in various capacities. As central information secretary it has been a great learning experience to represent PTI in latter n spirit. Working in a challenging environment made my conviction with PTI grow stronger . I wish Mr.Shafqat Mehmood all the best with his new appointment.​

I never said all decision are made by the CEC.That would be ridiculous.And lets not insult each other intelligence. You can t have an CEC constantly in session. Its a review body for reviewing strategy, big political decisions..

An appointment at a provincial chapter if non controversial probably does not invlove alot of people. Given the sheer amount of joining into PTI I dont think its at all possible for all to be vetted at a central forum. Some decision have to be made by office holders, with due deliberation.

Even the assumption that Naeem ul Haq had no idea about the news is just that an, assumption of a reporter based on the timing of an SMS. Maybe he was out of credit and sent the SMS late, maybe he did not have the guys mobile numer, maybe he was asleep lol. I am saying you dont have a Iron clad case bud, infact are just clutching at straws. Its quite embarrassing actually.