Margret Bourkes Propaganda about Muhammad Ali Jinnah
- Thread starter Unicorn
- Start date
Niazi Hawk
Minister (2k+ posts)
MY MIDDLE FINGER AND ELEVENTH FINGER FOR UNICORN(bigsmile)
Re: Jinnah's Interview to Margret Bourke.
mr. gandhi does not need anyone to defend him. but this nonsense about "EXPOSING" his sex life is going to silly extents now. most of what he experimented with, he himself has written in his own books. even a basic reading of say "my expreiments with truth" (discounting his collected works which are vast) will reveal that he himself was the source who "EXPOSED" his own sex life. so what is the use of some article in any newspaper. just read his own writings.
also i never understand why people confuse between the political and the private. what he or jinnah did in his private life is totally irrelevant. if you criticize gandhi's politics, it is much more relevance, who he slept with, or whether he was homosexual or a transvestite or asexual is totally silly, ya for e.g. criticism of that fact that he looked down upon Black people when he was in south africa is a completely reasonable criticism. and mr. gandhi needs definitely some defense there from people who have studied his life.
but his sexuality? really? thats all you can come up with?
mr. gandhi does not need anyone to defend him. but this nonsense about "EXPOSING" his sex life is going to silly extents now. most of what he experimented with, he himself has written in his own books. even a basic reading of say "my expreiments with truth" (discounting his collected works which are vast) will reveal that he himself was the source who "EXPOSED" his own sex life. so what is the use of some article in any newspaper. just read his own writings.
also i never understand why people confuse between the political and the private. what he or jinnah did in his private life is totally irrelevant. if you criticize gandhi's politics, it is much more relevance, who he slept with, or whether he was homosexual or a transvestite or asexual is totally silly, ya for e.g. criticism of that fact that he looked down upon Black people when he was in south africa is a completely reasonable criticism. and mr. gandhi needs definitely some defense there from people who have studied his life.
but his sexuality? really? thats all you can come up with?
FaisalKh
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Jinnah's Interview to Margret Bourke.
i agree to ur points but if u look at the thread unicorn is admitting that the thread is actually a reaction of few fellow members but if u look his own assumption and elaboration of the context of the interview/documentary that is insulting to our leader even if it is politics because his politics was to free us from british and hindus and that is equally respectable for us as the private life of gandhi is for u. For u and many other critics it was politics but for us it was a very noble and holy cause and becoz of him we can live our lives the way we want
i agree to ur points but if u look at the thread unicorn is admitting that the thread is actually a reaction of few fellow members but if u look his own assumption and elaboration of the context of the interview/documentary that is insulting to our leader even if it is politics because his politics was to free us from british and hindus and that is equally respectable for us as the private life of gandhi is for u. For u and many other critics it was politics but for us it was a very noble and holy cause and becoz of him we can live our lives the way we want
My criticism of the original post is that it seems too disjointed and difficult to follow. It needs better composition to understand what exactly is being said and to which question. At the moment it looks more like an anecdote, rather than a real interview. And this puts it in a very bad light of legitimacy. One thing everyone must always keep in mind, Jinnah created the Nation of Pakistan. I disagree with a lot of things about Gandhi, but I have to concede that he did indeed manage to create India.
Unicorn
Banned
Interview is from the book. You might want to follow the link.
I have said that before that Mr. Jinnah had some outstanding qualities. The man worked had he was self maid and known to have lived with good degree of moral and ethics.
British were leaving and very few among the masses knew what kind of animal democracy was. Jinnah had legitimate concerns about the status of Muslims as a minority and he tried to address them in his 14 point agenda that was rejected by the congress. The congress believed that the agenda will tie there hands and the govt will not be able to function they had legitimate concerns. It would be better to move on in case like this than to restrict the progress for everyone.
That is not good enough for religious guys like our friend Mr Mongol who are brainwashed by their leaders and the military. Religious people don't need a lot of push to get them where they want them. They would like everyone to believe that creation of Pakistan was divine and Jinnah was sent by God to guide the Ummah to deliver Muslims from the clutches of the evil British and Hindus. You will see this on every Jinnah post where he is portrayed as a mythical figure.
This reporter, a rationale thinker, who witnessed the religious massacres and never ending line of refugees heading in both direction really wanted to know what plan Mr. Jinnah had for these people who lost there lives and properties to come to his Pakistan. She asked him what kind of constitution you intend to draw. His answer " I don't know but it would be a democratic one and Zakat is part of our system-our obligation to the poor". What kind of answer is that from a man sent by God according to our friends here. He claims that Islamic Ideas were voted in the 13th centuries ago, is this true? He should have explained to the reporter as to how.
As far as India is concerned it was going to be there weather God wanted or not since the British were leaving Gandhi played a role in the decision of the British. The only reason Ghandi got any notoriety because he was fighting with the British who has some conciseness. Had Ghandi tried his pacifism to the Mongols they would have just beheaded him and no one would know his name.
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Thank you for informing us about the opinions of Margaret Borouke whoever she is :lol:
(Oh yes a very serious reporter for the very serious American Photomagazine "Life")
Word of advice, received opinion is a poor substitute for historical analysis.
Here you go, you may learn a thing or two. (See the Historical documents in the Annex)
http://www.leics.gov.uk/threegiants.pdf
(Oh yes a very serious reporter for the very serious American Photomagazine "Life")
Word of advice, received opinion is a poor substitute for historical analysis.
Here you go, you may learn a thing or two. (See the Historical documents in the Annex)
http://www.leics.gov.uk/threegiants.pdf
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I do agree with most of what you said. Especially the part about divinity and the Ummah etc. Religion is a tool. The problem is whenever you utter the words Islam and Prophet, the logic aspect of the brain for the muslim shuts down. They fail to understand that , religion is the ONLY way they can be manipulated. They think it is their greatest strength while at the same time not realizing that it is ALSO their greatest weakness.
Look at Pakistan. It was because of Islam it came into conception. Look at Pakistan today. It is being destroyed Because of Islam. So it was born out of Islam. It is being eaten away by Islam. We secularists are just a minority who demand equality for all and the separation of Religion from State. The failure is not ours, it is the Muslims who were unable to establish whatever fantasy Islamic dreamland they thought they could establish. They have an Islamic constitution, but still cannot reign in on corruption. It is their failure and they have the audacity to point fingers at people asking for secularism?
If Asif Ali Zardari does not fit into the current Islamic Constitution of Pakistan, whose fault is that? Secularisms or YOUR Islamic Constitution enforcement? Secularism is not even IN the constitution of Pakistan. What we ask is something new for Pakistan. Not the tried Islamic governance which will never come, because Muslims are a confused lot without a leader. They are like a rudder less boat. They generally know what they want, but don't know the way how to get there. So I suggested that why don't you all take time out from chasing Islamic governance and give Secularism a chance? They will have time to regroup, gather their lost wits, get a sense of direction, find a Leader to lead them and then come back and beat Secularism if they are really that good. It's been 65+ years since Pakistan's inception and if you still cannot get your Islamic house in order then you are a failure and need to go back to the drawing board. It's as simple as that.
The Tyranny of religion from Pakistan has to be dealt with. We need to bring Islam under control so that it does not go awry like it is going today in Pakistan. We must save Islam from the Muslims of Pakistan and inturn save them from themselves.
Look at Pakistan. It was because of Islam it came into conception. Look at Pakistan today. It is being destroyed Because of Islam. So it was born out of Islam. It is being eaten away by Islam. We secularists are just a minority who demand equality for all and the separation of Religion from State. The failure is not ours, it is the Muslims who were unable to establish whatever fantasy Islamic dreamland they thought they could establish. They have an Islamic constitution, but still cannot reign in on corruption. It is their failure and they have the audacity to point fingers at people asking for secularism?
If Asif Ali Zardari does not fit into the current Islamic Constitution of Pakistan, whose fault is that? Secularisms or YOUR Islamic Constitution enforcement? Secularism is not even IN the constitution of Pakistan. What we ask is something new for Pakistan. Not the tried Islamic governance which will never come, because Muslims are a confused lot without a leader. They are like a rudder less boat. They generally know what they want, but don't know the way how to get there. So I suggested that why don't you all take time out from chasing Islamic governance and give Secularism a chance? They will have time to regroup, gather their lost wits, get a sense of direction, find a Leader to lead them and then come back and beat Secularism if they are really that good. It's been 65+ years since Pakistan's inception and if you still cannot get your Islamic house in order then you are a failure and need to go back to the drawing board. It's as simple as that.
The Tyranny of religion from Pakistan has to be dealt with. We need to bring Islam under control so that it does not go awry like it is going today in Pakistan. We must save Islam from the Muslims of Pakistan and inturn save them from themselves.
Mate, this wasn't even an interview, this was more of the author's own viewpoint about what He could have had in mind and so forth. Had the plans and strategies of Muhammad Ali Jinnah been so easy to depict and to elaborate about, he wouldn't ever be successful in doing what he did against the political giants of that time and almost no other time had so many great and cunning minds working in unison but that one.
I also see the author is not at all good at her language skills so are you sure it is from a renowned journalist's/writer's book?
I am not talking about the motives behind this thread as you have already mentioned the reason but it wasn't a good effort as you yourself can read it as an unconcerned individual and would find it hard to read, incomprehensible and with the lack of analytical skills. You can say whatever you want to but being into this thing since long, I have presented a totally unbiased view of it. You can see that I didn't even use the title Quaid e Azam as I ask younger ones to do because they are getting used to utter Mr. Jinnah due to effects from relentless propaganda against him.
Thank you.
I also see the author is not at all good at her language skills so are you sure it is from a renowned journalist's/writer's book?
I am not talking about the motives behind this thread as you have already mentioned the reason but it wasn't a good effort as you yourself can read it as an unconcerned individual and would find it hard to read, incomprehensible and with the lack of analytical skills. You can say whatever you want to but being into this thing since long, I have presented a totally unbiased view of it. You can see that I didn't even use the title Quaid e Azam as I ask younger ones to do because they are getting used to utter Mr. Jinnah due to effects from relentless propaganda against him.
Thank you.
Here is an account of Margaret Bourkes at Gandhis Funeral(In her Biography by Vicki Goldberg):
There seemed to be no limit to how far she'd go for a photograph. I was aghast when I read Goldberg's account of Bourke-White at Gandhi's death. She had just said good-bye to Gandhi and was leaving India when [HI]she got word that he had been assassinated. [/HI]She rushed to his house where his family and friends, who were her friends too, welcomed her in their sorrow. But no camera please. Unbelievably, Bourke-White had smuggled in a camera with her - [HI]and she actually popped off a shot, using a flashbulb, before her friends threw her out.[/HI] By no means chagrined, she tried to get back in.
There seemed to be no limit to how far she'd go for a photograph. I was aghast when I read Goldberg's account of Bourke-White at Gandhi's death. She had just said good-bye to Gandhi and was leaving India when [HI]she got word that he had been assassinated. [/HI]She rushed to his house where his family and friends, who were her friends too, welcomed her in their sorrow. But no camera please. Unbelievably, Bourke-White had smuggled in a camera with her - [HI]and she actually popped off a shot, using a flashbulb, before her friends threw her out.[/HI] By no means chagrined, she tried to get back in.
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Dear Marathi Manoo,
As you can tell, it's me and I have been forced to come back and respond to this non-sense given that no other Pakistani had been able to. The idiots on this forum have my other account banned for a certain time-limit, rendering it impossible for me to access any page. I must clarify that I do not concern myself with this site/forum or anyone that is here. I was requested very nicely and obsequiously to respond to your bullsh!t and like Jinnah, it turns out only one person can lead this joke of a "qaum". (ayiguh, in Marathi )
So here it goes:
Let's first, look at your arguments about Jinnah being a mythical figure in Pakistan and revered for being a Pakistani leader or saint of some sort for making Pakistan. Nothing can be further from the truth. The reality is that you are indulging in what is psychologically known as "projecting". This is what happens in your home-state of Maratha and you have assumed the same goes for Pakistan. So, in order to understand where you're coming from, we have to understand, where you're actually coming from.
Chitrapati Shivaji is your "Jinnah" and you assumed that Pakistanis worship the real Jinnah, in the same manner but it's not true as you're only projecting (as explained earlier, for your convenience). Also, once you took a look at his reality and "claim to fame", and after realizing it was insignificant, you projected that onto Pakistanis, as well.
In order to understand what I am saying, and for the idiotic Pakistanis, we will now be analyzing the life and character of Shivaji, who is your role-model, worshiped by you (literally) all over Maharashtra and has his name on every last thing in the state.
So, now, lets look at his worship being done and later, I will tell you what was so special about, who we can otherwise refer to as, Santa's little helper (for his height - I will explain this, too). Also, note that I will not be using the term Hindu as it refers to a geographical region and Pakistanis were also once known Hindoo Mohammedans by orientalists (who Margaret Burks can be accurately identified as).
Massive garland around his idol that is worshiped by the Vaishnavists who are one-class lower than the Brahmin Vaishnavists:
An Idol of his in some devout Vaishnaivist Kshatriya (lower than Brahmin) Marathi's house.
This "god" is also worshiped by the late, Bal Thackeray whose Shiv Sena means' Shiv's army or Shivaji's army.
You can see him in a picture, trying to "fill his shoes", so to speak and since they are both very miniscule in their physicality, it's not a hard job. Notice the similarity in chairs (and especially, the tigers). Yet, he says we are the ones with the medieval hang-up
What was Shivaji's claim to fame?
He was the founder of the Maratha Empire.
How did he do it?
He deceptively killed Afzal Khan during the battle of Pratapgarh while they were to speak in Shivaji's tent. Afzal Khan was the ruler of the South Indian Adilshahi Dynasty (one of many Shiite dynasties of the Subcontinent).
BTW, what he did was was against the rules of battle, warfare and dignity, but, it goes beyond that. It shows how worthless Shivaji was and he could not fight, which is why he had to trick someone into being killed. Wouldn't the followers of this man be ashamed at having won by trickery and deception? Well, going by the attitude of the OP and the Marathis, apparently not.
And as I said earlier, it goes beyond that. They venerate this man's act. Here, take a look:
Does this mean that this type of warfare is preferred by the so-called warrior caste among the Marathas and even the future generations?
Well, everyone knows the answer to this question: Of course!
Here's a children's cartoon, trying to venerate this coward and then, justifying his act of deceptive trickery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccsyIP3QgCI
Who were and are the Marathi Manoos?
Other than being small and deceptive, they are second class citizens in India because they are lower than Brahmins, the highest caste among the Vaishnavists. This is an issue they tried to resolve by filling their entire bureaucracy with Brahmins during the so-called Maratha empire (this was unlike Akbar in that he did it to promote peace whilst these people did it out of religious obligation).
Furthermore, the OP, who is an ex-military, ex-state machinery employee is a useful puppet in the hands of the ruling Brahmin, Congress elite who has people like Sachin Pilot, elected from Ajmer Sharif because of his marriage to Farooq Abdullah's daughter - thus, gaining the Muslim vote and having foreign dignitaries (PPPP folks) visit Ajmer - instead of saying that we are going to visit Congress, they say we are going to visit the shrine.
In Maharashtra, like with Bhindrawale against the never ending Badal dynasty of Punjab, Congress created Raj Thackeray to divide the right-wing vote bank. Raj Thackeray also has the support of the Marathi Muslims, as well, and is effective in Congress' plans to counter the Pakistan-supported Shiv Sena, which sidelined Muslims and Dalits to create a divisive society. Haji Mastan, a Tamil Muslim and a leader of the Muslims and Dalits was their only hope to balance Thackeray's influence but he also ended up working with Haji Mastan (Thackeray admits this in an interview). So, Congress created the person of Raj Thackeray, a man who makes fiery speeches and is even more to the right than Thackeray, himself, causing the division of the right-wing vote bank. Even Nana Patekar, a B-grade Indian actor begged Uddhav (Bal's son) to patch up with Raj for the sake of the Marathi Manoo -
http://www.dnaindia.com/entertainme...ants-uddhav-raj-thackeray-to-patch-up_1806104
It is commonly understood in Maharashtra that "Raj is an agent of Sonia" (something the OP, Ganeshkar also believes being a Hindutva extremist).
This is the tactic that the PPPP clowns go to understand in India from the Congress. So, it is not all completely false when PML-N claims that PPP is using Imran Khan to divide the right-wing votebank. You can see PPP-activists openly making posts on the site and if the attacks ever come towards PPP, their users tell PTI to stick with attacking N-league or even worse, random popping up of PTI "noora-haters" takes place in anti-PPP threads. This is something that I've witnessed, personally. Establishment also played a role in propping up Imran, to counter Nawaz and the anti-establishment hate in KP.
On Marathis, again: You see, the Marathis, like the OP, are predisposed to hating Muslims because their "leader" (read "god"), had deceptively defeated the "Mongols" (a word, the OP conveniently mentions to signify his bigoted mindset). He is of the opinion that "foreign forces" were dispelled and removed from occupying India by his forefathers, which is why he is obsessed with hating Islam and Muslims and continues to "fight" here, on this site, in a deceptive way, justifying what his forefathers had apparently forwarded it into his gene pool. What he fails to realize is that Pratapgarh, where Afzal Khan was killed, is still a garh for the Muslims and they are not foreign, as he claims.
You will see him following the traditions of Santa's little helper, Shivaji, on this site by deceptively using people to justify his presence here only, in the end, to promote Hindutva extremism, even more.
As explained above, such state employees, like the Sikhs (who are taught that Muslims murdered their Saints) make for good pawns in the Brahmin internal and external politics as they are already indoctrinated. Like the OP, they are fit for the military and other jobs in the Brahmin state-machinery, from the first day as they cleverly doing the dirty work for the Brahmins.
Unfortunately, this Ganeshkar (named after the elephant god), hasn't been in shape for a while but when he is, he is fantasizing about stabbing some Muslim by inviting him over for dinner like his idol (literally) Shivaji.
Now, on the topic of the article and the quotes that are widely being quoted by these Indians, everywhere.
This had been actually taken from a book (or collection of essays) by Mr. Ravi K.alia mediocre professor at a subpar college in New York (no, he is not teaching at SUNY - "like" if you read this far and got the joke).
A little bit more about this OFBJP nut-job: His name is Ravi K.alia and he teaches history. (Yes, that's all there is to him).
In a democracy, it is important that every professional be judged by the people he or she is servicing, which is why, we will try to understand how this person is perceived by his students by looking at his profile on ratemyprofessor.com. Similar methodology is applied to physicians, teachers and other service-related professionals.
So, to now understand the claims being made in the article:
There are only two points that are raised and presented as an issue. One, is the question of the funding of Pakistan's state and the second, of democracy.
The funding of Pakistan's state and America's military was not an issue or a problem because the Brahmins did not give us our share of the pie when we separated and didn't even let our people go free in Kashmir (needless to say, they used the same army to suppress the Kashmiris while they were using the Sikhs to slaughter our civilians - kind of like when Niazi said "to hell with the Bangus" and that he wanted land and not people). This was being done at the behest of Vallabhai Patel, a Gujarati, who like Marathis, hate Muslims, dearly.
Therefore, using geopolitics to fund the foundation of a state was in Pakistan's interest and even more fascinating was the story of Pakistan's success in being built from the ground up and that too, by a local populace. This is unlike India where Mountbatten continued to assist Indians in ruling and an Italian still has to boss everyone around - they didn't even bother to send the Italian men to do the job as only the females are enough - speaking of Italian men not being sent, I wish you luck in getting their marines back
The second issue this moron raised was about the 13th century. As I had explained elsewhere, the Pakistani state was formed as a result of the dissolution of the Ottoman Caliphate, which had been known by the "Hindoo Mohammedans" to have been planned by the British and other European powers. The Wahhabbist Arabs were on a rampage alongside the colonialists trying to destroy everything Ottoman by referring to it as an "innovation" in religion. The Arab betrayal, coupled with the colonialist trickery, prompted the Muslims to come out in the streets and resulted in the Khilafat movement. This movement culminated to the point that even Gandhi couldn't ignore it and used this as the foundation stone of the "Quit India movement". And now, here's where the climax ends: Iqbal and Jinnah are our leaders and revered because they taught us "self-determination" and "khudi" by explaining to us that if the empire of the Turks fell, you need not worry, as you are still alive. This was powerful and this became the story of Pakistan and holds true, till date.
In perspective of the time period in which the interview was held, the reference to the 13th century was mandatory because it referred to the Ottomans, whose empire had only recently been destroyed by who the Muslims of India had perceived to be because of the Western world.
If you want to understand the Ottomans, you have to understand the year 1453 and also that they were not Shiites (just like Tipu Sultan wasn't). They had fought Safavids and the accusers who throw out terms like "bid'ah" also need to be reminded that the faith was not created by who they refer to as "rafizis". The faith that the majority of Pakistanis follow is not Shiism and not created by them so better try other accusations to remove that concept.
The democracy of that era was rooted in the Ottoman jurisprudence that you cannot be taught and explained, immediately.
I will close this by posting pictures of the Blue Mosque in Istanbul (formerly known as Constantinople, and conquered in 1453). It is also referred to as the Blue Masjid.
Phrase from Saadi's poem. Those who can read, can understand the message I am trying to convey
Another example of who the Ottomans were and how we are directly related to them.
Those who speak of Bid'ah, need not speak or worry about the Usmanis as you were the ones who caused their downfall and are continuing to divide the Muslims, like in '47 (even though, the difference in school of thought exists, you keep pushing yourself closer to the Wahabbists).
PS. A Message to all members, mods and admin.
I have no interest in a site that is being trolled on by simple-minded idiots who have nothing better to do than waste time thereby wasting wealth their parents accumulated through unscrupulous means and create a culture of ignorance and mental retardation (by restricting discussions and conversations that go beyond their petty minds and petty saas-bahu politics or that of Pakistan).
Had I been given the opportunity to respond, I would put all of these people in their place but that is not my job as I am not responsible for the tarbiyet of those whose parents had not provided them with any (and were incapable of as they lacked it, themselves).
I only responded to this useless thread because there was a need to do so after I had been literally forced as a befitting reply was not given to this joke of a human being.
When I first joined this site, it was after a year or two because I felt that there were certain things that were not being shared and certain people were misunderstanding things without being corrected. It was important as it helped keep us aware and knowledgable about not only Pakistan but also world affairs. Unfortunately, mentally handicapped trolls who had been forced out of their original street-level social circles have not only stormed this site but are also restricting the flow of information, and discussion on topics that is being discussed in the entire world media. Whether it be Iran, India or Arabs, we cannot discuss anything without being prevented by one group of trolls or the other.
This is an impediment in learning and counter-productive to educate one of the world's least educated people. By education, I am not referring to degrees because in Pakistan, degree, degree hoti hai, asli ho ya nakli. There used to be a time when people had fruitful and really mind-boggling discussions from which a lot could be learned (as no one possesses all knowledge). But now, we see nothing worthwhile and an animalistic representation of the human species from which we need to distance ourselves and I already see it happening.
Her thread per koi na koi ghalazat bakki ja rahi hoti hai aur koi bhi aql o danish ki baat nahi kerta. Yeh wall chalking aur naaray baazi walay logon ko internet mil gaya hai aur iss main aksar nau daulatye log maujud hain jinko siasat ki alif-bay ka ilm nahi laikin az khud danishwar banay baithay hain. Yehi haal humaray mulk kay leaderaan aur media ka hai to in gadhon ko hum kiya keh saktay hain?
In short, Siasat.pk has become trolls.pk and not a site that I joined or wanted to join. I posted this in the spirit of what I had originally hoped to join and be a part of.
Wassalaam.
As you can tell, it's me and I have been forced to come back and respond to this non-sense given that no other Pakistani had been able to. The idiots on this forum have my other account banned for a certain time-limit, rendering it impossible for me to access any page. I must clarify that I do not concern myself with this site/forum or anyone that is here. I was requested very nicely and obsequiously to respond to your bullsh!t and like Jinnah, it turns out only one person can lead this joke of a "qaum". (ayiguh, in Marathi )
So here it goes:
Let's first, look at your arguments about Jinnah being a mythical figure in Pakistan and revered for being a Pakistani leader or saint of some sort for making Pakistan. Nothing can be further from the truth. The reality is that you are indulging in what is psychologically known as "projecting". This is what happens in your home-state of Maratha and you have assumed the same goes for Pakistan. So, in order to understand where you're coming from, we have to understand, where you're actually coming from.
Chitrapati Shivaji is your "Jinnah" and you assumed that Pakistanis worship the real Jinnah, in the same manner but it's not true as you're only projecting (as explained earlier, for your convenience). Also, once you took a look at his reality and "claim to fame", and after realizing it was insignificant, you projected that onto Pakistanis, as well.
In order to understand what I am saying, and for the idiotic Pakistanis, we will now be analyzing the life and character of Shivaji, who is your role-model, worshiped by you (literally) all over Maharashtra and has his name on every last thing in the state.
So, now, lets look at his worship being done and later, I will tell you what was so special about, who we can otherwise refer to as, Santa's little helper (for his height - I will explain this, too). Also, note that I will not be using the term Hindu as it refers to a geographical region and Pakistanis were also once known Hindoo Mohammedans by orientalists (who Margaret Burks can be accurately identified as).
Massive garland around his idol that is worshiped by the Vaishnavists who are one-class lower than the Brahmin Vaishnavists:
An Idol of his in some devout Vaishnaivist Kshatriya (lower than Brahmin) Marathi's house.
This "god" is also worshiped by the late, Bal Thackeray whose Shiv Sena means' Shiv's army or Shivaji's army.
You can see him in a picture, trying to "fill his shoes", so to speak and since they are both very miniscule in their physicality, it's not a hard job. Notice the similarity in chairs (and especially, the tigers). Yet, he says we are the ones with the medieval hang-up
What was Shivaji's claim to fame?
He was the founder of the Maratha Empire.
How did he do it?
He deceptively killed Afzal Khan during the battle of Pratapgarh while they were to speak in Shivaji's tent. Afzal Khan was the ruler of the South Indian Adilshahi Dynasty (one of many Shiite dynasties of the Subcontinent).
BTW, what he did was was against the rules of battle, warfare and dignity, but, it goes beyond that. It shows how worthless Shivaji was and he could not fight, which is why he had to trick someone into being killed. Wouldn't the followers of this man be ashamed at having won by trickery and deception? Well, going by the attitude of the OP and the Marathis, apparently not.
And as I said earlier, it goes beyond that. They venerate this man's act. Here, take a look:
Does this mean that this type of warfare is preferred by the so-called warrior caste among the Marathas and even the future generations?
Well, everyone knows the answer to this question: Of course!
Here's a children's cartoon, trying to venerate this coward and then, justifying his act of deceptive trickery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccsyIP3QgCI
Who were and are the Marathi Manoos?
Other than being small and deceptive, they are second class citizens in India because they are lower than Brahmins, the highest caste among the Vaishnavists. This is an issue they tried to resolve by filling their entire bureaucracy with Brahmins during the so-called Maratha empire (this was unlike Akbar in that he did it to promote peace whilst these people did it out of religious obligation).
Furthermore, the OP, who is an ex-military, ex-state machinery employee is a useful puppet in the hands of the ruling Brahmin, Congress elite who has people like Sachin Pilot, elected from Ajmer Sharif because of his marriage to Farooq Abdullah's daughter - thus, gaining the Muslim vote and having foreign dignitaries (PPPP folks) visit Ajmer - instead of saying that we are going to visit Congress, they say we are going to visit the shrine.
In Maharashtra, like with Bhindrawale against the never ending Badal dynasty of Punjab, Congress created Raj Thackeray to divide the right-wing vote bank. Raj Thackeray also has the support of the Marathi Muslims, as well, and is effective in Congress' plans to counter the Pakistan-supported Shiv Sena, which sidelined Muslims and Dalits to create a divisive society. Haji Mastan, a Tamil Muslim and a leader of the Muslims and Dalits was their only hope to balance Thackeray's influence but he also ended up working with Haji Mastan (Thackeray admits this in an interview). So, Congress created the person of Raj Thackeray, a man who makes fiery speeches and is even more to the right than Thackeray, himself, causing the division of the right-wing vote bank. Even Nana Patekar, a B-grade Indian actor begged Uddhav (Bal's son) to patch up with Raj for the sake of the Marathi Manoo -
http://www.dnaindia.com/entertainme...ants-uddhav-raj-thackeray-to-patch-up_1806104
It is commonly understood in Maharashtra that "Raj is an agent of Sonia" (something the OP, Ganeshkar also believes being a Hindutva extremist).
This is the tactic that the PPPP clowns go to understand in India from the Congress. So, it is not all completely false when PML-N claims that PPP is using Imran Khan to divide the right-wing votebank. You can see PPP-activists openly making posts on the site and if the attacks ever come towards PPP, their users tell PTI to stick with attacking N-league or even worse, random popping up of PTI "noora-haters" takes place in anti-PPP threads. This is something that I've witnessed, personally. Establishment also played a role in propping up Imran, to counter Nawaz and the anti-establishment hate in KP.
On Marathis, again: You see, the Marathis, like the OP, are predisposed to hating Muslims because their "leader" (read "god"), had deceptively defeated the "Mongols" (a word, the OP conveniently mentions to signify his bigoted mindset). He is of the opinion that "foreign forces" were dispelled and removed from occupying India by his forefathers, which is why he is obsessed with hating Islam and Muslims and continues to "fight" here, on this site, in a deceptive way, justifying what his forefathers had apparently forwarded it into his gene pool. What he fails to realize is that Pratapgarh, where Afzal Khan was killed, is still a garh for the Muslims and they are not foreign, as he claims.
You will see him following the traditions of Santa's little helper, Shivaji, on this site by deceptively using people to justify his presence here only, in the end, to promote Hindutva extremism, even more.
As explained above, such state employees, like the Sikhs (who are taught that Muslims murdered their Saints) make for good pawns in the Brahmin internal and external politics as they are already indoctrinated. Like the OP, they are fit for the military and other jobs in the Brahmin state-machinery, from the first day as they cleverly doing the dirty work for the Brahmins.
Unfortunately, this Ganeshkar (named after the elephant god), hasn't been in shape for a while but when he is, he is fantasizing about stabbing some Muslim by inviting him over for dinner like his idol (literally) Shivaji.
Now, on the topic of the article and the quotes that are widely being quoted by these Indians, everywhere.
This had been actually taken from a book (or collection of essays) by Mr. Ravi K.alia mediocre professor at a subpar college in New York (no, he is not teaching at SUNY - "like" if you read this far and got the joke).
A little bit more about this OFBJP nut-job: His name is Ravi K.alia and he teaches history. (Yes, that's all there is to him).
In a democracy, it is important that every professional be judged by the people he or she is servicing, which is why, we will try to understand how this person is perceived by his students by looking at his profile on ratemyprofessor.com. Similar methodology is applied to physicians, teachers and other service-related professionals.
What did Mr. K.alia get from his students?
He got a whopping 2.5 out of 5
http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=389343
Examples of some comments on this clown:
"his lectures were boring for me, tests were fair and he is a fair grader,doesn't requires to bring the bks to class but expects us to read em to answer the final. a bk that he wrote! overall an ok professor.."
As you can see, Mr. *****, is truly a believer in Kala Dhan because he wants the students to buy the book that he wrote, himself, and forces them to buy it. Any hara.mkhor rashi's son or daughter who has studied abroad on public funds can confirm for us that buying books is not mandatory (only if they bothered to go to class - usually, they don't care because they already know they have har.am wealth, so why bother?)
Mr. Jaswant Singh, another Indian who tried to make money from the celebrity of Jinnah, also quoted the same exact article on Dawn.com
http://dawn.com/2012/08/13/journey-to-a-different-place/
He got a whopping 2.5 out of 5
http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=389343
Examples of some comments on this clown:
"his lectures were boring for me, tests were fair and he is a fair grader,doesn't requires to bring the bks to class but expects us to read em to answer the final. a bk that he wrote! overall an ok professor.."
As you can see, Mr. *****, is truly a believer in Kala Dhan because he wants the students to buy the book that he wrote, himself, and forces them to buy it. Any hara.mkhor rashi's son or daughter who has studied abroad on public funds can confirm for us that buying books is not mandatory (only if they bothered to go to class - usually, they don't care because they already know they have har.am wealth, so why bother?)
Mr. Jaswant Singh, another Indian who tried to make money from the celebrity of Jinnah, also quoted the same exact article on Dawn.com
http://dawn.com/2012/08/13/journey-to-a-different-place/
So, to now understand the claims being made in the article:
There are only two points that are raised and presented as an issue. One, is the question of the funding of Pakistan's state and the second, of democracy.
The funding of Pakistan's state and America's military was not an issue or a problem because the Brahmins did not give us our share of the pie when we separated and didn't even let our people go free in Kashmir (needless to say, they used the same army to suppress the Kashmiris while they were using the Sikhs to slaughter our civilians - kind of like when Niazi said "to hell with the Bangus" and that he wanted land and not people). This was being done at the behest of Vallabhai Patel, a Gujarati, who like Marathis, hate Muslims, dearly.
Therefore, using geopolitics to fund the foundation of a state was in Pakistan's interest and even more fascinating was the story of Pakistan's success in being built from the ground up and that too, by a local populace. This is unlike India where Mountbatten continued to assist Indians in ruling and an Italian still has to boss everyone around - they didn't even bother to send the Italian men to do the job as only the females are enough - speaking of Italian men not being sent, I wish you luck in getting their marines back
The second issue this moron raised was about the 13th century. As I had explained elsewhere, the Pakistani state was formed as a result of the dissolution of the Ottoman Caliphate, which had been known by the "Hindoo Mohammedans" to have been planned by the British and other European powers. The Wahhabbist Arabs were on a rampage alongside the colonialists trying to destroy everything Ottoman by referring to it as an "innovation" in religion. The Arab betrayal, coupled with the colonialist trickery, prompted the Muslims to come out in the streets and resulted in the Khilafat movement. This movement culminated to the point that even Gandhi couldn't ignore it and used this as the foundation stone of the "Quit India movement". And now, here's where the climax ends: Iqbal and Jinnah are our leaders and revered because they taught us "self-determination" and "khudi" by explaining to us that if the empire of the Turks fell, you need not worry, as you are still alive. This was powerful and this became the story of Pakistan and holds true, till date.
In perspective of the time period in which the interview was held, the reference to the 13th century was mandatory because it referred to the Ottomans, whose empire had only recently been destroyed by who the Muslims of India had perceived to be because of the Western world.
If you want to understand the Ottomans, you have to understand the year 1453 and also that they were not Shiites (just like Tipu Sultan wasn't). They had fought Safavids and the accusers who throw out terms like "bid'ah" also need to be reminded that the faith was not created by who they refer to as "rafizis". The faith that the majority of Pakistanis follow is not Shiism and not created by them so better try other accusations to remove that concept.
The democracy of that era was rooted in the Ottoman jurisprudence that you cannot be taught and explained, immediately.
I will close this by posting pictures of the Blue Mosque in Istanbul (formerly known as Constantinople, and conquered in 1453). It is also referred to as the Blue Masjid.
Phrase from Saadi's poem. Those who can read, can understand the message I am trying to convey
Another example of who the Ottomans were and how we are directly related to them.
Those who speak of Bid'ah, need not speak or worry about the Usmanis as you were the ones who caused their downfall and are continuing to divide the Muslims, like in '47 (even though, the difference in school of thought exists, you keep pushing yourself closer to the Wahabbists).
PS. A Message to all members, mods and admin.
I have no interest in a site that is being trolled on by simple-minded idiots who have nothing better to do than waste time thereby wasting wealth their parents accumulated through unscrupulous means and create a culture of ignorance and mental retardation (by restricting discussions and conversations that go beyond their petty minds and petty saas-bahu politics or that of Pakistan).
Had I been given the opportunity to respond, I would put all of these people in their place but that is not my job as I am not responsible for the tarbiyet of those whose parents had not provided them with any (and were incapable of as they lacked it, themselves).
I only responded to this useless thread because there was a need to do so after I had been literally forced as a befitting reply was not given to this joke of a human being.
When I first joined this site, it was after a year or two because I felt that there were certain things that were not being shared and certain people were misunderstanding things without being corrected. It was important as it helped keep us aware and knowledgable about not only Pakistan but also world affairs. Unfortunately, mentally handicapped trolls who had been forced out of their original street-level social circles have not only stormed this site but are also restricting the flow of information, and discussion on topics that is being discussed in the entire world media. Whether it be Iran, India or Arabs, we cannot discuss anything without being prevented by one group of trolls or the other.
This is an impediment in learning and counter-productive to educate one of the world's least educated people. By education, I am not referring to degrees because in Pakistan, degree, degree hoti hai, asli ho ya nakli. There used to be a time when people had fruitful and really mind-boggling discussions from which a lot could be learned (as no one possesses all knowledge). But now, we see nothing worthwhile and an animalistic representation of the human species from which we need to distance ourselves and I already see it happening.
Her thread per koi na koi ghalazat bakki ja rahi hoti hai aur koi bhi aql o danish ki baat nahi kerta. Yeh wall chalking aur naaray baazi walay logon ko internet mil gaya hai aur iss main aksar nau daulatye log maujud hain jinko siasat ki alif-bay ka ilm nahi laikin az khud danishwar banay baithay hain. Yehi haal humaray mulk kay leaderaan aur media ka hai to in gadhon ko hum kiya keh saktay hain?
In short, Siasat.pk has become trolls.pk and not a site that I joined or wanted to join. I posted this in the spirit of what I had originally hoped to join and be a part of.
Wassalaam.
Unicorn
Banned
Follow the link it might be better.
Its a part form her book a thick one. You might find it hard to believe but those were the answers given to direct questions.
Those who worship him like an idol will worship him like one.
Unicorn
Banned
:lol::lol: Welcome back to troll.pk and remember the dialog " they keep pulling me back"
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Unicorn
Banned
Oh no I did not think you will get mad (cry) and start exposing the Hindu leaders(cry) I am so sorry I take it all back[hilar][hilar][hilar][hilar][hilar]
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Alright I will try though a bit busy. No human is ever above criticism so you are all welcome to but with some concrete food for thought.
Mullah Omar
Minister (2k+ posts)
The assessment of Jinnah by this interviewer is quite funny, I liked the final paragraph especially. Thanks for the laughs.
WatanDost
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I was not going to do it but I got sick of people running Jinnah threads and puting down India and or Hindus in the same thread and last thread by WatanDost was the last straw that broke this Camel's back.
Disguise of SECULARISM indeed a HINDU TAWA worshiper i.e. @unicorn :lol: [hilar] [hilar]
