IPHONE 6 is an Atheist

[Liberal.Punjabi]

Atheists believe in Darwin's evolution theory not non-believeing in God

they also do not believe in the existence of any god

 

[mh.saghir]

they also do not believe in the existence of any god

I guess Darwin's theory in itself rejects the existence of any god

 

[badmaash kantutta]

Buy it and install Quranic app to turn it into a believer

[hilar](cry)[hilar] careful there now,, or u might get a death fatwa issued against you ....

 

[badmaash kantutta]

Thanking the athiest concepts with jazak allah ?? :)

Nothing wrong with that, just get a move on from the 8th century era.:jazak:

 

[دوسرا_سوال]

with this lengthy composition of yours you do not sound like an atheist or an agnostic. you sound more like a loser who cannot defend his belief system

Oh yeah you're right, I did decide to lose my belief in Islam... so you're right to call me a loser.

I'm just surprised that why are so many Muslim people and nations such losers though, even when holding onto Islam...

hmmmm

 

[دوسرا_سوال]

sometimes in movies, tv shows when someone breaks into your house they say what the person with too many sawals said to you..."welcome home...I've been waiting for you"....

haah... I'm only on my second you know...

 

[دوسرا_سوال]

OK!!!! May be as you think you might have either recently moved to west and impressed by them......as your language tells me............again, I start with atheist and agnostics are "runaway arguments" the people who can not think deep enough about the universe they believe calculating speed of light, using remote control drones are very impressive and for them it is intellectual way of thinking.........and this is also a believe that one want to live his/her life without thinking of having "Allah"
My friend, religion is a broad term you have to narrow it down and think of believers and non-believers of Allah. Unfortunately, most of the time the so called atheist and so called agnostics just think interms of conventional way and talk about the religious factories, religious money makers.......sure because these religious factory leaders and religious money makers all are part of atheist and agnostics school of thoughts and at some level being funded by these atheist and agnostics NGO's.......and then this all so called Taliban like CRAP is produced.............the real think to talk about is believers and non-believers of Allah SWT and then things will start opening up to you and only then you will find calculating speed of light is small part, the universe is so big and exploring this universe will get you towards strong believe on Allah SWT.
My friend, it is much easy to use abusive language as you started using and people only use abusive language when they run out of logical arguments.
I wish you good luck for your thoughts and will close the argument by saying May Allah give you peace of mind !

I appreciate your reply. Just please use paragraph spacing a bit more because that makes it easier to read.

I am sorry if you felt I used abusive language, and I apologise. I try not to use abusive language at all here, except for when teasing Pootians on this forum and that too is for fun only.

Hope you can accept my apology.

 

[Moonraker]

Ask athiest one questions
do you deny existence of God
they will say yes
then tell them why they have to deny existence of someone who don't even exist

fact of the matter is God is biggest reality of human beings and 90% of the world still believe that there is God in one way or other. I think this is biggest proof of God existence.

Deneying existance of God in now way means acknowledgement of God. If someme says " do you deny traveling to Jupiter " denying it by no means consitutes acknowledgement.

Even if everyone believes in God does not mean that God exists. Still there is no evideance to back up such a belief.

 

[Humi]

haah... I'm only on my second you know...

nice pigtails...you still have them? :lol:

 

[Zain Itrat]

In any case, seeking and requiring satisfying rational evidence is far more logical and appropriate for a man of 21st century than relying on centuries old, obsolete and outdated type of thinking of 'Iman-bil-ghaib' over such concepts. We don't use Iman-bil-ghaib in any aspect of modern life, whereas such level of superstitious kind of thinking was prevalent in every aspect of life up until not very long ago - so, 'evidence demanding' kind of thinking trumps 'iman bil ghaib' kind of thinking and therefore should not just be dissed just because your Islamiyat teacher told you so.

YOu Are Talking Same As The Phone Was Saying In Video That Maybe Mr. 2007 Was Believing It But Come On! This Is 2015 And I Am More Smarter And Of Modern Age. That Guy Didn't Even Have GPS He HAd No Other Options :)

This Video Gives A Very Good Idea To Mr Human How It Feels Like When YOur Own Creation Says I Don't Believe YOu Created Me And I Am Just A Coincidence.

 

[دوسرا_سوال]

YOu Are Talking Same As The Phone Was Saying In Video That Maybe Mr. 2007 Was Believing It But Come On! This Is 2015 And I Am More Smarter And Of Modern Age. That Guy Didn't Even Have GPS He HAd No Other Options :)

This Video Gives A Very Good Idea To Mr Human How It Feels Like When YOur Own Creation Says I Don't Believe YOu Created Me And I Am Just A Coincidence.

Zain, I've seen your videos and really appriciate the effort you put in them. Full marks for those and keep it up!

I would however like to point out that your argument is more on the lines of saying something like: "Oh other can believe their ancestors were apes, I won't believe mine were" etc...

That's not a clever way to argue. That's just what you call rhetoric for the sake of rhetoric.

My point was a bit different but you missed that. And I know that for a smart person like you, you do understand my point but just because you've decided to only believe into what you are born into, so no truth or facts can change your point of view. I can see that very clearly, and that's why I'm not even going to reiterate my point or explain it any further in this post.

I'd just say that just maybe look at engaging in well-formed arguments rather than just rhetorical one.

But again, I really, really appreciate your videos.

 

[Zain Itrat]

Thanks For The Appreciation...! I Am Honored...

I Respect Your Views... Well My Simple Argument Is Despite Of Being The Best Of CREATIONS, Humans Can Not Create A Life From Nothingness. And When They Fail In That They Say We Need A VITAL FORCE That Is Required For That. That Helplessness Of Science And Human Is The Answer. No Doubt That FOrce Is Allah Almighty. The Creator Theory Is The Best Answer To The Idea Of Atheism. We Humans Have Limitations And For Those Limitations The Creator Asked Us To Believe In "Iman Bil Ghaib" . Creator Knows What Are The Limitations Of The Creations :) Cheers :)

Zain, I've seen your videos and really appriciate the effort you put in them. Full marks for those and keep it up!

I would however like to point out that your argument is more on the lines of saying something like: "Oh other can believe their ancestors were apes, I won't believe mine were" etc...

That's not a clever way to argue. That's just what you call rhetoric for the sake of rhetoric.

My point was a bit different but you missed that. And I know that for a smart person like you, you do understand my point but just because you've decided to only believe into what you are born into, so no truth or facts can change your point of view. I can see that very clearly, and that's why I'm not even going to reiterate my point or explain it any further in this post.

I'd just say that just maybe look at engaging in well-formed arguments rather than just rhetorical one.

But again, I really, really appreciate your videos.

 

[Zain Itrat]

The Example Of An Atheist Is Like Of This Baby Who Is Living Within Mom And Doesn't Believe In Her. We Are In The Womb And Will Never Believe In Mom Until We Get Birth And See Her.

 

[RustamShah]

Thanks For The Appreciation...! I Am Honored...

I Respect Your Views... Well My Simple Argument Is Despite Of Being The Best Of CREATIONS, Humans Can Not Create A Life From Nothingness. And When They Fail In That They Say We Need A VITAL FORCE That Is Required For That. That Helplessness Of Science And Human Is The Answer. No Doubt That FOrce Is Allah Almighty. The Creator Theory Is The Best Answer To The Idea Of Atheism. We Humans Have Limitations And For Those Limitations The Creator Asked Us To Believe In "Iman Bil Ghaib" . Creator Knows What Are The Limitations Of The Creations :) Cheers :)

Hi Zain

Do we really need to create life ? We can still be skeptical, by the way, its the definition of creation which is for me a little relative, Craig Venter can claim he made synthetic life but even then I won't accept him as a god, because I know he is a human.

You seems pretty convince about the existence of God, no offense, but can you elaborate any reasons or evidences which made you a firm believer ? Please, if you were born in a believing family and brought up a believer, it may not count, but you seems a logical person to me, please entlight us about your reasoning and evidences which made you believe that there is a god and he is Allah ?

 

[Zain Itrat]

See The Main Difference Between A Believer And Atheist Is Faith. I Have It U Don't Have It.. Fine.. My Believe Is Based On A Little Bit Faith And Remaining On Logical Reasoning (I Am Not A Blind Follower).

I Will Base My Reasoning On Results Derived For Some Already Existing And Admitted Realities. I Hope Your Science Believes In Extraction Of Results And Implying And Deriving Conclusions Form The Already Existing Information. And For Me That Already Existing Information Is A Book And Its Bearer, i.e. My Holy Prophet (Peace And Blessings Of Allah Almighty Be Upon Him And His Holy Progeny)

I Haven't Seen God, Yes Its True But There Was A Man Who Claimed To Be HIS Prophet, He Was The Best Of The Characters This Humanity Has Ever Witnessed And Whole Humanity Admits It, Even His Foes. Even The People Of His Opposite Religions Ranked Him Above Their Own Prophet (Jesus) And Founder (Paul) Of Religion On Many Occasions. So That Man On The Foundation Of His Character And Truthfulness (Both Verbal And Physical) Told Me And Made Me Convinced That There Is A God, Who Has Sent Him, And Thats Allah.

That Man Was So Perfect That Even He Could Have Claim Himself To Be The God And Humans Around Him, His Followers, Would Have No Problem In Believing Him To Be God. But He Didn't Do That. Surprisingly He Referred Humanity To Someone Else, That Unseen God. He Nauzubillah Was Not Fool Who Was Referring People To Someone Other Despite Of The Fact That People Around Him Were So Convinced Of His Character And Were Ready To Believe Whatever He Would Have Told Them.

So Out Of This Present Information I Draw Out A Logical Conclusion That If That Man Who Has A 100% Rate Of Truthfulness, Is Telling Me That He Is Sent By A God Who Is His God As Well As Mine, So I Buy His Idea Because Logical Reasoning Is Implying That He Should Be Right In His This Claim Too. I Believe That Unseen God On The Witness Of Character Of His Representative To Us.

And Trust Me Not Only Him But His Whole Household And Progeny's Character Is The Witness Of That Unseen God As My God Says That U Can Recognize Me From My Signs And Those People Were HIS Signs. Their Character, Their Practices, Their Faith In That Unseen. Those Near To Perfect People Were Not Mad To Pray And To Worship Someone Else And Ask Others To Do The Same.

Take The Indecent Of Karbala As An Example. A Man Can Not Sacrifice His Whole Family On An Idea He Is Not Bloody Sure About. He Had Some Promise Which Was His Motivation To Allow His Own Family To Be Slaughtered Including Women And An Infant Child. Who He Was Pleasing?

Its Getting Too Long But Thanks For Bearing With Me. There's Alot More........ But This Present Information Which I Shared Is Enough For Me To Convince My Self That They Were Right. And There's A God. Not Sure About You. :) Cheers ! :)

Hi Zain

Do we really need to create life ? We can still be skeptical, by the way, its the definition of creation which is for me a little relative, Craig Venter can claim he made synthetic life but even then I won't accept him as a god, because I know he is a human.

You seems pretty convince about the existence of God, no offense, but can you elaborate any reasons or evidences which made you a firm believer ? Please, if you were born in a believing family and brought up a believer, it may not count, but you seems a logical person to me, please entlight us about your reasoning and evidences which made you believe that there is a god and he is Allah ?

 

[Jaanbaazkarachi]

See The Main Difference Between A Believer And Atheist Is Faith. I Have It U Don't Have It.. Fine.. My Believe Is Based On A Little Bit Faith And Remaining On Logical Reasoning (I Am Not A Blind Follower).

I Will Base My Reasoning On Results Derived For Some Already Existing And Admitted Realities. I Hope Your Science Believes In Extraction Of Results And Implying And Deriving Conclusions Form The Already Existing Information. And For Me That Already Existing Information Is A Book And Its Bearer, i.e. My Holy Prophet (Peace And Blessings Of Allah Almighty Be Upon Him And His Holy Progeny)

I Haven't Seen God, Yes Its True But There Was A Man Who Claimed To Be HIS Prophet, He Was The Best Of The Characters This Humanity Has Ever Witnessed And Whole Humanity Admits It, Even His Foes. Even The People Of His Opposite Religions Ranked Him Above Their Own Prophet (Jesus) And Founder (Paul) Of Religion On Many Occasions. So That Man On The Foundation Of His Character And Truthfulness (Both Verbal And Physical) Told Me And Made Me Convinced That There Is A God, Who Has Sent Him, And Thats Allah.

That Man Was So Perfect That Even He Could Have Claim Himself To Be The God And Humans Around Him, His Followers, Would Have No Problem In Believing Him To Be God. But He Didn't Do That. Surprisingly He Referred Humanity To Someone Else, That Unseen God. He Nauzubillah Was Not Fool Who Was Referring People To Someone Other Despite Of The Fact That People Around Him Were So Convinced Of His Character And Were Ready To Believe Whatever He Would Have Told Them.

So Out Of This Present Information I Draw Out A Logical Conclusion That If That Man Who Has A 100% Rate Of Truthfulness, Is Telling Me That He Is Sent By A God Who Is His God As Well As Mine, So I Buy His Idea Because Logical Reasoning Is Implying That He Should Be Right In His This Claim Too. I Believe That Unseen God On The Witness Of Character Of His Representative To Us.

And Trust Me Not Only Him But His Whole Household And Progeny's Character Is The Witness Of That Unseen God As My God Says That U Can Recognize Me From My Signs And Those People Were HIS Signs. Their Character, Their Practices, Their Faith In That Unseen. Those Near To Perfect People Were Not Mad To Pray And To Worship Someone Else And Ask Others To Do The Same.

Take The Indecent Of Karbala As An Example. A Man Can Not Sacrifice His Whole Family On An Idea He Is Not Bloody Sure About. He Had Some Promise Which Was His Motivation To Allow His Own Family To Be Slaughtered Including Women And An Infant Child. Who He Was Pleasing?

Its Getting Too Long But Thanks For Bearing With Me. There's Alot More........ But This Present Information Which I Shared Is Enough For Me To Convince My Self That They Were Right. And There's A God. Not Sure About You. :) Cheers ! :)

@ Mr Itrat

I hope you are doing fine. I didn't want to jump in the conversation but after reading your reply, though not addressed to me directly, I kinda felt bit disappointed. I was expecting that you will give some logical reasoning, some evidence, you know something concrete, but you just expressed your beliefs !

yaar there's a lot diffrenc between facts and faith, don't tell us your faith, rather tell us some logical arguments, evidences. What you just did is nothing important, its like a christian telling me about the Jesus and how great he feels about him !

I hope you don't mind my interference, I was reading your conversation with both Doosra Sawal and RustamShah, these guys are hard core debaters, you need much more than this !

cheers :-)

 

[Zain Itrat]

Oh Yes No Doubt I Am Just Not As Good As They Are At It. Neither I Am Here To Prove This . He Asked Me My Reasoning To Believe And I Just Told Him. I Didn't Mean To Convince Him. And As Far As I Think I Drawn Some Logical Conclusions From Some Logical Reasoning Based On Some Admitted Facts Of Historians Of All Humanity. I Didn't Just Simply Praised My Prophet PBUH Everyone Knows All This Who Has Read A Little Bit Even Neutral The History of Mankind. I Didn't Go So Much Into Philosophical Details Of Things. I Just Told What Makes Me Believe In God. I Do That On The Authority Of A Truthful Man Who's Truthfulness Is Well Admitted. So Thats It. :) No Need Of Long Scientific, Philosophical Debate :)

PS: Sorry For Disappointing U, Maybe You Were Expecting Too Much From Me, Sorry I Din't Meet Your Expectations :)

@ Mr Itrat

I hope you are doing fine. I didn't want to jump in the conversation but after reading your reply, though not addressed to me directly, I kinda felt bit disappointed. I was expecting that you will give some logical reasoning, some evidence, you know something concrete, but you just expressed your beliefs !

yaar there's a lot diffrenc between facts and faith, don't tell us your faith, rather tell us some logical arguments, evidences. What you just did is nothing important, its like a christian telling me about the Jesus and how great he feels about him !

I hope you don't mind my interference, I was reading your conversation with both Doosra Sawal and RustamShah, these guys are hard core debaters, you need much more than this !

cheers :-)

 

[دوسرا_سوال]

@ Mr Itrat

I hope you are doing fine. I didn't want to jump in the conversation but after reading your reply, though not addressed to me directly, I kinda felt bit disappointed. I was expecting that you will give some logical reasoning, some evidence, you know something concrete, but you just expressed your beliefs !

yaar there's a lot diffrenc between facts and faith, don't tell us your faith, rather tell us some logical arguments, evidences. What you just did is nothing important, its like a christian telling me about the Jesus and how great he feels about him !

I hope you don't mind my interference, I was reading your conversation with both Doosra Sawal and RustamShah, these guys are hard core debaters, you need much more than this !

cheers :-)

Love the expression 'hard core debaters'... hehe.

but in all honesty, you didn't interrupt or interfere, rather your opinion is really welcomed.

also, I am kind of impressed that you picked up on the fact that Zain's viewpoint lacked rational / logical angel. It's rare to see observation like yours here. Mostly people who believe just do so blindly and unconditionally. It's so refreshing to see some inkling of free thought like yours once in a while here on the forum..

 

[دوسرا_سوال]

See The Main Difference Between A Believer And Atheist Is Faith. I Have It U Don't Have It.. Fine.. My Believe Is Based On A Little Bit Faith And Remaining On Logical Reasoning (I Am Not A Blind Follower).

I Will Base My Reasoning On Results Derived For Some Already Existing And Admitted Realities. I Hope Your Science Believes In Extraction Of Results And Implying And Deriving Conclusions Form The Already Existing Information. And For Me That Already Existing Information Is A Book And Its Bearer, i.e. My Holy Prophet (Peace And Blessings Of Allah Almighty Be Upon Him And His Holy Progeny)

I Haven't Seen God, Yes Its True But There Was A Man Who Claimed To Be HIS Prophet, He Was The Best Of The Characters This Humanity Has Ever Witnessed And Whole Humanity Admits It, Even His Foes. Even The People Of His Opposite Religions Ranked Him Above Their Own Prophet (Jesus) And Founder (Paul) Of Religion On Many Occasions. So That Man On The Foundation Of His Character And Truthfulness (Both Verbal And Physical) Told Me And Made Me Convinced That There Is A God, Who Has Sent Him, And Thats Allah.

That Man Was So Perfect That Even He Could Have Claim Himself To Be The God And Humans Around Him, His Followers, Would Have No Problem In Believing Him To Be God. But He Didn't Do That. Surprisingly He Referred Humanity To Someone Else, That Unseen God. He Nauzubillah Was Not Fool Who Was Referring People To Someone Other Despite Of The Fact That People Around Him Were So Convinced Of His Character And Were Ready To Believe Whatever He Would Have Told Them.

So Out Of This Present Information I Draw Out A Logical Conclusion That If That Man Who Has A 100% Rate Of Truthfulness, Is Telling Me That He Is Sent By A God Who Is His God As Well As Mine, So I Buy His Idea Because Logical Reasoning Is Implying That He Should Be Right In His This Claim Too. I Believe That Unseen God On The Witness Of Character Of His Representative To Us.

And Trust Me Not Only Him But His Whole Household And Progeny's Character Is The Witness Of That Unseen God As My God Says That U Can Recognize Me From My Signs And Those People Were HIS Signs. Their Character, Their Practices, Their Faith In That Unseen. Those Near To Perfect People Were Not Mad To Pray And To Worship Someone Else And Ask Others To Do The Same.

Take The Indecent Of Karbala As An Example. A Man Can Not Sacrifice His Whole Family On An Idea He Is Not Bloody Sure About. He Had Some Promise Which Was His Motivation To Allow His Own Family To Be Slaughtered Including Women And An Infant Child. Who He Was Pleasing?

Its Getting Too Long But Thanks For Bearing With Me. There's Alot More........ But This Present Information Which I Shared Is Enough For Me To Convince My Self That They Were Right. And There's A God. Not Sure About You. :) Cheers ! :)

Very well written and well expressed but the caps lock on every word made it harder to read, but even then very well expressed.

Some pointers though:

1. You can't mix faith with reason for the same thing. That leads to cognitive dissonance. Faith is by definition belief without proof and is the opposite of or contradictory to what we call rational reasoning. So, they can't be held together at the same time in a normal, working, smart and clever brain.​

2. You can seek confirmation in Prophet's (SAW) life as proof of Allah's existence, but again, it's blind faith that all that actually happened and is not just a fictional account told by Muslims. Reverence of Muslim figures is one thing, but that doesn't mean that those things factually happened. So it is better not to base your whole view of existence on something that can't be proven.​

3. More people have given their lives in more daring ways when seeking power. Such actions dp not confirm or verify anything regarding a faith in a deity. This is all I would say on your example of Karbala, because saying anymore would get me aggressively banned.​

But anyway, again, full marks to you expression of your view point.

 

[ZenoInTheZoo]

Guys, your curiosity is genuinely appreciable. As the resident 'mulhid' of this forum let me respectfully add on to your understandings...

First, read a bit about what defines as being an Atheist, by reading here, and then what being an Agnostic is by reading here.

Then, without throwing a childish-brainwashed-tantrum or emotionally blowing up like some kind of intellectual-suicide-bomber, try to think why such concepts need to exist.

Atheism and Agnosticism are broad concepts and try to understand what they mean rather than just blindly writing them off. (especially when understanding something doesn't mean you have to believe in it (Nice ploy!), so you have nothing to lose).

One thing I noted from your opinions is that you guys think that a person can either be an Agnostic or an Atheist, but not both. That's not true.(1) For example, personally, I am purely Atheistic to any Islam-o-Christian-o-Jude-o-Hindu-o-Greek concept of God(s), because to my rationale there isn't enough merit in believing in them (2) - especially when these are usually based on Iman-bil-ghaib kind of beliefs.

And, at the same time, I am purely Agnostic about my views about the reality of what lies beneath / under / behind the existence of this universe - i.e. I am totally silent, non pre-judgmental or pre-believer in such truth and will form an opinion when enough evidence that satisfies my rationality comes to exists(3).

So, a person can both be an Atheist about something and Agnostic about something when talking about the concept of God(s) - because it is a complex concept.

Also, one more thing, you talked specifically that Atheists or Agnostics are differentiated based on visual proof... Well, to slightly correct your opinion, I would say that they are both equally looking for rational proofs (not just visual proofs) and that while doing so, one actively rebut the man-made descriptions of God(s), therefore called an Atheist and the other just remain silent about it, neither refuting or accepting such man-made descriptions of these said God(s) and therefore is called an Agnostic.

In any case, seeking and requiring satisfying rational evidence is far more logical and appropriate for a man of 21st century than relying on centuries old, obsolete and outdated type of thinking of 'Iman-bil-ghaib'(4) over such concepts. We don't use Iman-bil-ghaib in any aspect of modern life, whereas such level of superstitious kind of thinking was prevalent in every aspect of life up until not very long ago - so, 'evidence demanding' kind of thinking trumps(5) 'iman bil ghaib' kind of thinking and therefore should not just be dissed just because your Islamiyat teacher told you so.

All of this sounds pretty complex, I know, but when you take off the prejudiced spectacles of Atheists and Agnostics being 'bay-sharam, bay-haya dushmanan-e-Islam' (6) and look at just the concepts in an intellectually fair manner, then you'd get it pretty easily.

Thanks for bearing with me for the long post.

We have been at it before and know each other and our positions very well. So it is not for u or between us. As you and your comrades are keep coming back with same line of argument, so I also, unfortunately, have to repeat myself for the consumption of larger public.

1) It is nice to see you finally graduating to the next level of certainty ( ;) ) and reconciling your earlier confusion on whether to be an atheist or an agnostic.

2) What made you to live in this make-believe that your enough is enough? Don't you think you need to search for and find still a higher merit?

3) ..........and you think this position of yours is perfectly rational and it can co-exist with your rationality, especially vis-a-vis the realty of your soul leaving your body one day?

4) Now this is amusing and insulting at the same time! I wonder how or where from did you obtain or who accorded you the authority to pronounce this verdict of obsolescence about something that is held dear by about 1.6 billion people in the world? Or just being a man of of 21st is enough for you to appropriate this authority? What about the man of 42nd century?

Iman-bil-ghaib is not a thing of use for a believer but a source of (spiritual) strength. In this age of capitalistic utility, only atheists and agnostics may be after only those concepts/ideas which are useful!

5) Has the evidence demanding thinking found the completely satisfactory evidence or still lost in the dust it raised around itself?

6) Hope you will not cane me with it!

Take care......... :)